<![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama - Jezebel Comments]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama - Jezebel Comments]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @rsr26: I get what you are saying, considering the coverage of Africa as a war torn, disease torn country, but perception and reality are two different things. I have never been to Africa, so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I have heard a lot of people, Black, White, and otherwise, say that Africa is much more than what is depicted on tv. There are thriving communities with remarkably kind and well educated people. But this is not the Africa we see typically, so it is hard to think of it in that way.

lawchic22

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @rsr26: dude, you know affirmative action was designed to keep women and minorities in competition with each other to distract us while white dudes inject AIDS into our chicken nuggets, right?

nerdsausage is a busysausage

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @rsr26: Yeah and like Barbara bush said those people in new orleans should be grateful the hurricane wiped their shit away cause they better off now or some such.

socasweet

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces, totally serious about these digestive yogurts:

Yes...I understand the reference...but my point is that I don't want to hear about it.

Much of this stuff is as dated as Wright's worldview.

I looked online...and it looks like Bobby Seale has a barbeque sauce book out and shills Ben and Jerry's ice cream.

Viva La Revolucion!!!!

cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???)

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces, totally serious about these digestive yogurts: Excuse me, I'm not misunderstanding anything. First of all, the election is in NOVEMBER. You're really confident enough to call these states for McCain at this point? This attitude shows a far deeper misunderstanding of the election than you accuse me of.

Secondly, the Democrats are in a far better position to campaign in these states than the Republicans are, no matter WHO the nominee is.

3 percentage points is NOT that significant, even in Texas. I don't know how you can look at the results and say that she clearly owned when he still managed to get only slightly less than half the vote.

And by the way, it's not just Sinbad refuting Clinton. Video accounts show a different story than she portrayed.


+ Watch video

://wonkette.com/

eatsshootsleaves

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @rsr26: you're out of your element. please stop.

faire-la-moue

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @STICKSnSCONES: and the Chinese who built the railroads, don't forget them. I'm sure they were super-grateful for the backbreaking work.

faire-la-moue

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???): Wait, WHAT ARE YOU talking about? That was like 8 thoughts. I need to process. ;)

I am NOT A CAMPAIGN FLACK. But I take your concerns very seriously, very very seriously indeed.

3 percentage points is THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND VOTERS. A little more than 3 percentage points in...I don't know, WYOMING. Caucuses are bunk. They are a fair way for US to choose--Dems can do as they like--but you should not use them as a good benchmark for how one would do in a primary.

Texas is not going blue; I am tweaking your nose a bit on that. And all hail Sinbad! He has long been known as a cogent and watertight political commentator.

Talk about 30 years ago! Also, I have not heard anyone speaking of the 1970s. Do you know why I was referring to Bobby Seale there?

@eatsshootsleaves: PA and OH will go for McCain vesus Obama. To say otherwise shows a deep misunderstanding of basic factors in this election, although I know you mean well.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces, totally serious about these digestive yogurts: Hehe. Since that poll shows Obama loosing that state by a smaller margin, doesn't that sort of disprove the idea that Clinton ROCKED Texas (and really. She won by all of what -- three percentage points? And he got more delegates? And he probably would have won if he didn't have such a bad week what with the Rezko and NAFTA things?).

Wouldn't it be funny if Texas went blue, though? I guess it just shows that this election, current meaningless polls to the contrary, is tipped heavily in favor of the Democrats.

@marin79: Obama has a superior (meaning: more comprehensive, more effective) economic platform than Clinton does, overall. Not that it matters at this point, because either of their platforms is going to be vastly better than whatever platform McCain drudges up. I think McCain connects well with the working class because he has a tough guy persona (same with Hillary Clinton), but Obama has a better argument for them than McCain does. After eight years of GWB this argument will ring more true to working class voters than it did when, say, John Kerry ran. I don't think it's a given that PA or OH would vote for Obama, but if they were going to vote for Clinton it's more likely that they will turn blue than not. White working class voters do not "hate" Obama; he's won them in some states. Most of the swing states that Clinton has won have been by relatively small margins -- she won New Mexico by half a percentage point!

I think Clinton has some advantages on the electoral map, and Obama has different advantages. Either one of them just needs to get a running mate that will make up for whatever disadvantages they may have and we'll be fine.

eatsshootsleaves

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces, totally serious about these digestive yogurts:

There would be nothing wrong if you were a campaign flack or an AFSCME/NOW flack and leaving comments...but I think if so you should disclose it. If your income is tied to to who wins the election...you should disclose it.

And if you are using a single poll taken at the height of the dem nominating election to say that Hilary's 3% edge in the TX primary makes her significantly more likely to pull something like that off...and that...after the comparison of her account of her Kosovo trip to Sinbad's, Andrea Mitchell's and the video of her...you trust her account of her role in Kosovo NOW????

Well based on this...if you aren't a flack...there's an interest group meal ticket out there for you that you're missing out on.

I did like your shout-out to Bobby Seale though. Gotta wonder how many folks here even know who he is though.

Kinda history channel material at this point...ya know?

Bobby Seale was well over 30 years ago.

How much longer do we need be beaten over the head with the self absorbed self important lectures on the sixties and seventies before we can move on?

God...

I'm not discounting people's contributions...just trying to put them in perspective thirty years later.

I'm REALLY tired of hearing about the Vietnam War era.

cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???)

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces, totally serious about these digestive yogurts:
"To not stand up for masturbation!"
Thanks for that one. Much-needed levity.

Re: RSR's "logic" of Buchanan: Just sounds like a typical white christian fundamentalist line of reasoning to me. Specious, racist, and deluded. Plays well here in Dumbfuckistan. I'll bet the baby jeebus whispered it in his ear.

Ewalda

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @westvillagegirl: Yes, but the Republicans ARE NOT GOING TO VOTE FOR ANYBODY. Who cares whom they hate? Worry about the Reagan Democrats, yo. They hate Obama.

Seriously, WHY do you care if Repubs hate her? They always get out the vote; they always vote in a bloc. Doesn't matter.

Anyway that myth is so blownupsky.

@cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???): No, but I give her a lot of money. (Dude, and, um, what if I DID work for her? Wouldn't I support her? Would it be against the law to be in the comments? I am a CITIZEN.) But yeah, no, I don't work for her. I totally would though.

It's not a shtick, he has a hard row to hoe in the GE.

And I have literally--not *once*!--mentioned Kosovo! Who in the hell are you thinking of? :) Seriously. Although I do have more confidence on her handling Kosovo NOW, not that that has anything to do with anything, now that you mention it.

I love how you think an argument against a Hills supporter is to basically to be like, "Well, you're just [insert argument of Hills supporter]." Yes, I am arguing [X]. And [Y]. Good catch, Tautolobama!

(Don't believe in polls, but since it supports my argument, what the hell:
[www.burntorangereport.com]])

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @marin79: oh hell, take a chance - maybe obama will surprise you and stand up to the fucking media.

whyknot

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @marin79: To me, one of the few KNOWN quantities in this election is the Republicans' unreasonable, illogical hatred of Hillary. And that factor has guided my decision. I WANT TO WIN, dammit.

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces, totally serious about these digestive yogurts:
The degree to which you work the Hillary talking points begs me to ask...are you working for the campaign?

You are clearly just working the "he's unelectable in the GE" shtick...no matter what you say...and really give no quarter to the fact that Hillary had everything going for her and put together a lousy campaign and a lousy campaign team and shot herself in the foot.

I mean...only a campaign flack would try to convince people that TX is imortant in the general.

And that does seem to be what you do...convince more than give your opinion. You cite examples and twisted facts that I don't even think you believe.

You're the person that tries to keep pushing the Hillary in Kosovo line.

Actually...I just heard that her campaign has finally admitted she may have "misspoke" on Kosovo.

cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???)

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @MadameOvary: ll the GOP reject and denounce Buchanan now? Nah, because he is the crazy uncle who gets to say what they are all really thinking."

So many worthy contenders for Comment of the Day.

Rooo sez BISH PLZ

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @westvillagegirl: It is funny how that happens! I don't like the fact that the media hates Hillary, but given that I believe they'll turn on whomever is the Dem nominee, I feel like at least we know she can take it. I worry a lot more about what's going to happen to Obama in the general since it's more of an unknown than Hillary.

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @MadameOvary: damn straight madam!

whyknot

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @J.D.Regent:

Maybe I allowed the centrist and special interest to become conflated in my post.

He was a liberal from MA...and he was the candidate that the GOP wanted to run against.

It's more about the interest groups than far to centrist left. Kerry did run with a trial lawyer as VP...and he was the establishment candidate as opposed to say Howard Dean.

In a lot of ways Kerry was just a bad candidate.

Pre-2000 Gore fit into this mold. Post-2000 he doesn't seem quite as beholden to these groups.

cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???)

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @J.D.Regent: "milquetoast"

best characterization I've ever heard of him!

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> Does anyone recall The Pony in Slavery brouhaha? Well, Pat basically stole his whole argument from a crazy old lady who wrote for a local give-away-free-at-the-supermarket... rag. And she got fired because of the furor and all the complaints the paper received.
Also, JC Watts was only a Congressman from OK, not a Senator. He's a complete moron who became a Republican because Lincoln was one, and a pawn of white Republican men who wouldn't want him living in their neighborhood, joining their country club, or especially dating their daughter. He never could see how he was being used - rather sad, really.

Cynica

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @J.D.Regent: Oh, I know, I just wanted to drive the point home to RSR. He can be so obtuse.

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces, totally serious about these digestive yogurts:

Well...I guess that answers my question. You are that much of a used car salesman.

cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???)

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> I know I said I'd go. I will this time, I mean it.

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @J.D.Regent: EXACTLY! I think people don't understand how a vote for Obama can be BOTH idealistic AND pragmatic.

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @westvillagegirl: agree, i was just giving you context for rsr's statement.

@cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???): this doesn't really make sense to me. the "special interest candidate?" is that what kerry was? to me he WAS the safe centrist candidate, and that very safety and milquetoast lack of message did him in. and weirdly that's also how gore was packaged.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @marin79: I think it's really funny that two people such as ourselves can agree to the same premise, but not on the result. ("the fact that it's been so unfavorable towards Hillary.." The media has always been unfavorable to Hillary. Starting to think they always will. If the media is really the deciding factor that tips the undecided voters, then wouldn't you rather have a media darling on your side?

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @rsr26: Good one! You sure told me, didn't you?!
I think you're a child. So here are two tips from a grown-up: Don't talk about cultures you have zero knowledge about. And how about you avoid introducing ideas that you have no intention of defending intelligently.

Done with you now.

Iconocleft

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @marin79: wait, it scares you that he's done so well in the media BECAUSE mccain also does well in the media, so we should go with the candidate the media hates? that doesn't seem to make sense. is this some version of the "hillary is vetted" argument?

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @J.D.Regent: Oh yes, it is a mainstream church, but I am not sure that we can extend that to say that all of Wrights fiery rhetoric is "mainstream." And by "mainstream" I mean, front and center, public, widely held and generally socially acceptable.

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces, totally serious about these digestive yogurts:
We lose because we continually choose the interest group candidate for the general election...and essentially prove independents and republicans right about the democratic party.

People are generally very interested in centrist politics...and even centrist left politics.

What they aren't interested in are supporting the NEA, the really obnoxious of the unions (AFL/CIO...more interested in defending a guy that's making $45/hr than unionizing WalMart or McDonalds)and civil servants for life. When they vote dem they don't think they're voting for their interests...they think they're voting for trial lawyers.

cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???)

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @eatsshootsleaves: I actually think the fact that his media coverage has been so favorable (or perhaps the fact that it's been so unfavorable towards Hillary) is a big part of why he's done so well. That's actually one of the reasons Obama being the candidate in the general scares me. The media adores McCain for some unfathomable reason & in recent history, they've gone after the Dem candidate like attack dogs in the general. If it's even a tiny bit important for the media to love him for him to do well, then that's no good for the Dems in the general.

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @westvillagegirl: he was responding to me; I said that Trinity is a mainstream church, and it is.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @rsr26: Well, that's certainly your decision to make. But just don't forget that the same people who might scratch their heads at Obama's speech are like to be in the same demographic that hates the Clintons with fire and brimstone. I don't think the speech was there to convert people. Because, really, those who don't "get it" by now, may never do so. That speech was intended to shore up his supporters to remind them of what he stands for and what is at stake and what could be possible.

Over Easter, my racist Irish Catholic stepfather professed that he was somehow offended by the speech\ ... Which boggles my mind, especially when Obama expressed patience and understanding for his ilk. Some people just cannot let go, in the face of all reason and evidence to the contrary.

I too have much overdo work...

Until next time, everyone.

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @rsr26: And I think it's important to point out that the US statistic you used is a combined number. It is less than half that number for whites, and about twice that number for African Americans.

Meg

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @Iconocleft: Yeah. That's why everyone totally wants to immigrate to Africa.

rsr26

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @eatsshootsleaves: With Dems, sure. The Right has another media, yes?@cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???): Hillary ROCKED TEXAS. McCain is VERY powerful there. You want the one wtih 300K more than Obama--no caucuses in general.

Off to lunch. Mississippi is not up for grabs.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces, totally serious about these digestive yogurts: Because it's about as red of a state out there. If it's up for grabs...then so are every state in the southeast due to their black populations.

It's just a big stretch to be talking about Wyoming etc and then coming back and saying TX is important.

cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???)

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @eatsshootsleaves: It's one thing to assume that states like NY & CA that went for Hillary would definitely go for Obama in the general… it's another to think that OH & PA would. I believe the reason that those states are favoring Hillary is that her message is concrete & that speaks to people who are dealing with real problems. I think it's going to be a challenge for Obama to take those states without a lot of work.

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @rsr26: So infant mortality statistics - that's the scope of your knowledge on
Nigeria? So, I was right then - you don't know anything about Africa.
So we're saying that infant mortality is the standard by which "good" countries are judged? Ok, I'll play. Greece has a lower IMR than the U.S, does that make that country a "better," place to live? How about Portugal? Their IMR is lower than the U.S. as well. At the same time, the U.S. surpasses both in other indicators - GDP, life expectancy, etc.
My point is this: not all of the world looks to your indicators to reflect on the quality of their lives. I know you can't help yourself: for you, America is the standard by which all other societies are judged. So anyone not living as the Americans do MUST BE in poor shape. Funny, that a recent BBC survey found Nigerians to be among the happiest people IN THE WORLD, far happier than their counterparts in the U.S.
But that's prolly cuz they don't know any better, right? I mean, they haven't seen all the statistics...

Iconocleft

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @westvillagegirl: Jesus-no I meant I can understand Wright's hatred/skepticism of the US. Obama's speech was great--I am just not certain it's going to change anything.

rsr26

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @westvillagegirl: Forgot that @RSR thing, if that isn't clear.

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @rsr26: He's still not running "that kind of campaign," in fact he's striving for the opposite. Remember how people kept complaining about his "hope and change" message? This is, in part, what he's referring to. Could you not hear his words over the sound of your own thoughts?

STICKSnSCONES

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces, totally serious about these digestive yogurts: But Vermont is a state that Clinton would win in the general. I think when it comes down to McCain vs. Obama, Pennsylvanians will have a greater distinction and the results will be quite different than in the primary.

Ugh, I need to go now.

eatsshootsleaves

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces, totally serious about these digestive yogurts: I'm only an Obama supporter inasmuch as I'm a hard-left independent and I'm finding it harder and harder to be enthusiastic about Clinton's apparently deep-seated conservatism. I've already committed (to myself, if nobody else) to campaigning for the Democratic candidate, whomever that is (well, as long as they don't try to make Lieberman the VP candidate again).

All I'm thinking about at this point is the general election (I do happen to be in the camp that thinks Clinton has a major uphill fight to secure the nomination, and yes, I would like Obama to win it, but I live in California and am not a Democrat anyway, so nobody in the party has to care what I think. I'm very aware of this). I think that both Clinton and Obama are screwed as long as they follow the "traditional" path and allow the mass media to control the election narrative. Obama's an orator and Clinton's tough as nails, but that's insufficient to win the election. A certain amount of lateral thinking and risk-taking is necessary, if only to capture the media's attention. (And yes, my thinking is colored by the absolutely abysmal campaigns Kerry and Gore ran as much as my own preferences and values. Inasmuch as Clinton's campaign has thus far been following the Kerry and Gore playbooks, I'm disinclined to look on it that favorably in terms of its likely success in the GE.)

nerdsausage is a busysausage

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> You think his speech was skeptical? You are probably the first. And, for the umpteenth time, Obama DENOUNCED Wright's statements. Obama's speech was about recognizing the differences and issues that lay between us all, BUT coming together to fight it together. It was not about division, but unity. He was basically referring to Wright the same way Moe did about her racist Grandfather (that he is flawed, but that she still loves him.)

I think talking to people with the assumption that they're intelligent leads people to act in intelligent ways. See the gallup poll data cited earlier.

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> RSR26, here is some homework, ask the partners at the firm if you can bill it to "firm general" and perhaps speak with your firm's diversity and HR coordinator and ask if you can lead a panel discussion "Why do the black associates hate people like us?" [www.amazon.com]

I've heard the AIDS theory before, and it's been postulated by quite a few white men as well such as Dr. Alan Cantwell, "AIDS and the Doctors of Death". If one can give people smallpox blankets and monitor the progression of syphilis in poor black men telling them you are curing them but not actually treating it, it's easy to make the jump that a goverment might get rid of those deemed "undesirable" such as poor blacks in US and Africa and white homosexuals.

AfroGuapo

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces, totally serious about these digestive yogurts: There was no way to address this controversy that would have completely satisfied many voters. His response was as effective as it could be.

"BECAUSE PENNSYLVANIAN'S ARE NOT HUMAN? :) WHOSE REASON ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?"

Perhaps I'm putting that badly. What I meant that I think that addressing it as a societal issue was a good way to address it, even if it doesn't play perfectly in PA. Furthermore, I think it was a good and important message to put out, even if it's useless tactically (which I disagree with).

"BECAUSE AS THE MEDIA GOES, SO GOES THE COUNTRY?"

Um, yes. Usually that's the case.

Don't you think that glowing media coverage is part of the reason he's done well?

eatsshootsleaves

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @nerdsausage is in the tank for SATAN: Hagee is an idiot and those quotes are as bad as Wright's. I also believe that racism is at the root of the drug war. If Reverend Wright wanted to talk about sentencing discrepancies between crack and coke in a rational manner, I would be on his side. But that's not what he was doing.

It seems to me that Rev. Wright is the one incapable of nuance, not the people, like me, who think he's a demagogue.

rsr26

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces, totally serious about these digestive yogurts: "I don't need someone who can write a sophisticated term paper, I need someone who finds microloan programs sexy and knows we sometimes have to bomb things." The THING is, is that what may or not be bombed are not 'things' but people and I want a President who thinks long and hard, and negotiates, before anything like bombing happens. I don't know if Sen. Clinton stays awake at night reflecting on the hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people who have died in this war, and sure, Sen. Obama voted to continue funding, so he isn't perfectly clean either. BUT, when he said he would talk with Raul Castro, she said "NO negotiating!" I like the question first, shoot later approach.

MadameO asks - WWOD?

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @westvillagegirl: I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I can understand the bitterness and skepticism that blacks have towards the US. But Obama was not running that kind of campaign and that's why I was supporting him. Now, I think Hillary would probably have a better chance.

rsr26

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @eatsshootsleaves: No, he'll lose it in the general either way, probably. It's not a state that goes for him, any more than Vermont is a state that goes for Hillary. States tend to went further towards where they lean, not away, when it comes down to the wire. If that makes any sense.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces, totally serious about these digestive yogurts: gak! obama supporters don't actually think he & hillary are the same, i think you confuse the two groups.

whyknot

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @rsr26: thanks, Dad. Everything's so much clearer now!

For perspective, let's hear it from McCain friend John Hagee: "As a nation, America is under the curse of God." If the Wright issue wasn't about race, why isn't McCain's association with Hagee under the microscope?

Wright's take on AIDS is fucked up, but he is far from the only religious voice in this country with a completely erroneous and stupid take on the origins of HIV. At least he's not saying it's a judgment from God, or even less savory theories. Let me quote John Hagee again: "AIDS began in African prisons, where thousands of men, deprived of normal sex, turned to perverted sex. From the infection created by this perverted sex came the infection that birthed AIDS."

And while the government may not be actively colluding to destroy black America through the drug trade, the penal code (still) punishes the inner-city underclass disproportionately. Oh, what's that? The inner-city poor are largely minority? What a strange coincidence! To say that the government is out to destroy black America with drugs is a hyperbolic conspiracy theory, but it doesn't seem particularly paranoid to me.

Wright has problems with America. Wright believes many things that are not true, and some of them are reprehensible. Wright is also a Christian minister and a veteran. He's a complicated dude and both he and Obama are their own men. You've clearly made up your mind on what all this means. I'm pretty sure much of the rest of America hasn't.

nerdsausage is a busysausage

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @eatsshootsleaves: I'm going to cap just to differentiate my answers, not cuz I'm yelling at you. ;)

His campaign is built on unity, yes, but I don't think there can be unity without recognizing the forces that divide people.

EXCEPT HIS MAJOR TALKING POINT AGAINST HILLARY IS THAT SHE IS DIVISIVE.

If that didn't appeal to the base he was "supposed" to appeal to, all the better. He took a political risk, and took an honest and nuanced stance.

NOT ALL THE BETTER IF YOU NEED THEIR VOTES. IT'S NOT A RISK--IT'S JUST INEFFECTIVE.

I realize that I'm idealistic, and that idealism is part of the reason that the Democratic Party is not incredibly politically effective.

YES.

But I think it would have been a mistake for Obama to appeal to Pennsylvania voters and not plain human reason, as you suggest.

BECAUSE PENNSYLVANIAN'S ARE NOT HUMAN? :) WHOSE REASON ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

I'd rather have a president who aims for something better than mere tactics.

TACTICS ALONE=USELESS. TACTICS TOWARDS RESULTS=UNAVOIDABLE.

He is a politician. I'm just saying that I think the true measure is a politician is if he or she sticks to his or her principles as often as possible, even if it results in a short-term setback (and all a loss in PA would be is a short-term setback for Obama).

NO, IT IS LONG TERM. OTHERWISE, FUCK PENNSYLVANIA, WHO CARES? WHY DO YOU THINK IT'S HILLS' (SECOND) LAST STAND?

Besides, look at the glowing media coverage Obama is receiving from that speech.

WHICH IS DIFFERENTIATED FROM THE OTHER GLOWING MEDIA HE HAS BEEN GIVEN? BECAUSE AS THE MEDIA GOES, SO GOES THE COUNTRY?

I think it's done a lot of good for his campaign, at least among Democratic voters. Look at this poll: she was beating him last week, and now they're tied.

IT'S FINE, AS A PERSON, IT'S A BAD INDICATOR AS A STRATEGY.

Sorry; I'll cap no more.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @rsr26: OBAMA DID NOT MAKE THE COMMENTS. Wright made the comments. Why do you persist in harping on this? He denounced the comments that someone else made...you won't even denounce your OWN foolery from this morning. Yet you keep judging...judge on, Mr. Entitlement.

STICKSnSCONES

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @rsr26: I don't think anyone here is saying that Wright's views are "mainstream." But we must all recognize that these views exist, and why. Why should any black person in America have your same habit of giving white America the benefit of the doubt in ANYTHING? I mean, once you've been enslaved, disenfranchised, robbed of your ability to provide for YOUR family, maybe you will be able to "walk a mile" in another man's shoes. And NOT APPLAUDE Wright for saying the things he says, but to at least understand where he's coming from.

And besides, I think Obama's point about Wright was more akin to how the Republican's feel about their right-wing crazies, like Buchanan himself. Not mainstream, but definitely not generally "condemned" by them either.

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces, totally serious about these digestive yogurts: But the thing is, Obama could lose the PA primary and still be in a good place to win it in the general election. I think it's very likely that he will. Economic issues are very important in PA, aren't they?

eatsshootsleaves

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @Iconocleft: Well, if you consider "living" an important factor in quality of life, you are better off being born in America. What with Nigeria having 95 children out of 1000 born die, compared to the US with 6.37 out of 1000.

rsr26

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @nerdsausage is in the tank for SATAN: Oh, I so disagree with your view on their similarities. On knowledge of foreign policy, on healthcare, on defense, they are so divergent as to not even be in the same schoolyard, functionally speaking. (Obama advocated bombing Pakistan because his talking points weren't straight and has strenuously rescinded.) Style is certainly important, and frankly, this country is way more about Hillary's style. If he gets the nom, he better fucking get hawkish.

Not saying you're a dope or anything--I just strenuously disagree. You only hear "they're basically the same" from Obama supporters.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @rsr26: I agree that what Wright said was wrong on many levels and that Obama's speech did not make what he said right; I just think it's unfair to hold Obama accountable for what someone else said.

eatsshootsleaves

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @rsr26: Um, what? Both of my parents are from Nigeria. My mom will retire there within the next ten years. What exactly do you know about Nigeria --or any African country -- to make the claim that it would be better to live here in the U.S. as the descendent of a slave than there as a descendent of a free African?

Iconocleft

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @eatsshootsleaves: And I realize that this is the sort of hippy-dippy-let's-all-love-each-other... crap that a lot of very smart and pragmatic Hillary supporters despise and that I've tried to avoid when talking about Obama. But let me be clear: I think the speech was not only the right thing to do on a moral level, it was more politically expedient than you're giving it credit for.

eatsshootsleaves

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???): Um...enlighten me as to why it DOESN'T, okay?

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???): Yes, of COURSE. You know who else ran a great campaign? Bush. Don't confuse the two skills. It was smart to take caucus states--it gives the appearance of momentum and the will of the people and all that jazz. It's still 7,000 people turning out in Wyoming. By the way, screw Hillary, let's assume she's lost for the purposes of this argument, okay? Obama needs to figure out how he can take Pennsylvania in the general, do you understand? It's not a Dem smokescreen. It's the reason we've lost EVERY election except for the guy who genuinely reached out (=copped out, to many).

@nerdsausage is in the tank for SATAN: It's the long view in the NOM. It's sure as hell the short view for the general. Why DON'T you Obama supporters care about the general? I'm genuinely perplexed.

Bush has power=Bush has a Repub Congress most of his Presidency=Dems roll over too much.

Welfare reform was a sellout--and it also held off THE MOST RAPIDLY REPUBLICAN CONGRESS we have ever seen from gutting it entirely. Check out Nixon's destruction of the Great Society before you bitch out Bill. It can be a lot worse. That was Bill taking the long view--an actual long view.

@westvillagegirl: It IS a zero-sum equation. Partnerships like McCain-Feingold are few and far between, and it's to the credit of the legislators who can execute them when they see them. There's a huge difference between bringing together some police union with the attorney general and stopping the goddamned Republican right from enacting the "Healthy Skies" act when they hold all the cards.

Again, being President is not a moral referendum. It's an opportunity to get one--maybe two--BIG THINGS DONE, if you're lucky. You work towards making those deals happen. Giving speech=does not work towards making Pennsylvania happen=won't get it in the general=ultimately of no use to Dems. And to those of you who want Obama in particular!

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> ah yes, pat buchanan, the dingleberry who blames women (specifically "feminists") for 9/11, but who thinks being in business with charles taylor, the insane genocidal motherfucker who ruled liberia (lopping off kiddy hands and mass-raping women along the way) is a-ok.

exactly like joe francis, patsy's an attention whore who knows this will get play on all the networks.

Charlotte Corday

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @rsr26:
but isn't it reasonable to suggest that one of the unintended consequences of slavery is that descendents of slaves were/are in a better position than, say, their ancestors living in third-world poverty in Africa?

NO. I'd advise you to investigate the history of so-called "Third World" countries and find out how they came to be known as such.

Iconocleft

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> Wright's views are not enlightened or an example of him speaking "truth to power." If these beliefs are considered "maintstream" in the black community, then the black community is being ill-served by their leaders.

Anyone who claims the white power structure created AIDS or is complicit in the drug trade to get rid of blacks is an idiot.

To those white liberals on this site acting as if Obama's speech made everything ok, you are wrong.

rsr26

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @westvillagegirl: you said this way better than I did. (Bill) Clinton sometimes seemed more interested in cutting deals for their own sake than actually accomplishing the goals he campaigned on. He helped create this poisonous myth of "bipartisanship" that infects the DC media.

nerdsausage is a busysausage

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @rsr26: Africa was dramatically affected by slavery and colonialism as well. They lost hundreds of millions of people--entire generations--in a matter of a few hundred years. And then their land has been routinely raped for it's resources since then. Saying that it would have been third world and impoverished without the presence of Europeans is laughable. It's hard to say what the continent would have been like had it not been for the presence of primarily European colonists. What we can say for sure, is that as far as natural resources go, it's by far the wealthiest continent in the world. And without European presence this continent would have likely been a formidable place to contend with.

Ulookinatmyjunk!?!

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @marin79: Virginia has been considered a viable swing state by many Democratic strategists.

And Wisconsin is always a swing state.

The thing is, you can't say that with Michigan and Florida included they are equal in the popular vote, because their primaries were not legitimate to begin with. Furthermore, many of the swing states that Obama lost were by incredibly thin margins. Even in Ohio he only lost by ten points, which is not incredibly significant, especially when one takes into account many of the states that Obama won by twenty points or more.

@entonces lover of digestive yogurts: I don't see his relationship with Wright as hypocritical. His campaign is built on unity, yes, but I don't think there can be unity without recognizing the forces that divide people.

By the way, the reason that people liked his speech wasn't that he was saying anything revolutionary; he was saying the obvious. The point was that nobody with his level of importance has ever bothered to say what he said in about twenty years. If that didn't appeal to the base he was "supposed" to appeal to, all the better. He took a political risk, and took an honest and nuanced stance.

I realize that I'm idealistic, and that idealism is part of the reason that the Democratic Party is not incredibly politically effective. But I think it would have been a mistake for Obama to appeal to Pennsylvania voters and not plain human reason, as you suggest. I'd rather have a president who aims for something better than mere tactics. And I'm not saying that Obama always does this, and I'm not saying that he doesn't have moments of hypocrisy. I'm not saying he shouldn't fight hard, and that he has never fought dirty. He is a politician. I'm just saying that I think the true measure is a politician is if he or she sticks to his or her principles as often as possible, even if it results in a short-term setback (and all a loss in PA would be is a short-term setback for Obama).

Besides, look at the glowing media coverage Obama is receiving from that speech. I think it's done a lot of good for his campaign, at least among Democratic voters. Look at this poll: she was beating him last week, and now they're tied.

[www.gallup.com]

eatsshootsleaves

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> RSR26, you and your ilk are the very reason that black people like Rev. Wright are fueled with seething anger and resentment. I am from New Jersey and one of our congressmen said the same thing as Pat Buchanan. His name is Michael Patrick Carroll and he said blacks should get down on their knees and thank god their ancestors were slaves in response to NJ apologizing for its role in sanctioning slavery. Google the fool. RSR26, read this and perhaps it will knock some sense into that brain of yours. [theblacksentinel.wordpress.com]

AfroGuapo

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces, totally serious about these digestive yogurts: I too am policy-driven when evaluating the candidates, I like to think I'm reasonably informed, and I can't find a substantive difference between Obama and Clinton's platforms. There are minor differences between their healthcare plans (both are terribly inadequate, in my opinion). Clinton voted for the war and Obama advocated invading Pakistan. Clinton is a wonk and can talk policy all day long, which has a certain amount of appeal, but Obama's policy advisors are getting his positions more fleshed out and the results are more or less identical.

Like it or not, there aren't enough substantive differences between their policies, and American politicians don't compete on policy anyway, they compete on political style and base ideology. My point was that both Clinton and Obama have crafted public personas, and they don't have that much wiggle room if they want to avoid getting tarred with the tiresome old "flip-flopper" brush. Obama could have tried to disown Wright, and he didn't. It was a risky, courageous, maybe even foolhardy move. That tells people something about his character and how deep his public persona goes. Dorks like me can get off on its logical tightness and its incisive racial analysis, but the important part is that it shows that he's far more of a straight shooter in reality than McCain claims to be. I'll admit I don't know how that's going to play out in the fall, but I'm hopeful.

nerdsausage is a busysausage

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> Erm... what about the black folks that weren't slaves? That have come here since slavery and segregation have been abolished, but are still treated like shit? What do you say to them, Patty-boy?

wednesdayam

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces, totally serious about these digestive yogurts:
TX matters???

Are you really that much of a used car salesman?

cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???)

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces, totally serious about these digestive yogurts: Neither candidate was serious about a Florida re-vote. Both Hillary and Barack's people found reasons to shoot down every single proposal. Don't get it twisted.

xay

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @NotNotLickingToads: Sure it does. And to tell you the truth, I think it's likely Obama would take it by very slightly, especially as they would have almost certainly done a caucus. Another reason it's stupid to not agree to it.

He's leading by 700,000 in the popular; the disputed states are about a 3% differential. Shit, it's in the NYT today, just no time to find it. It doesn't serve the Dem party--which is ALL of us--to not acknowledge they're neck and neck; someone will have to do the wooing of the other side.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> WHY DOES HILLARY KEEP PUSHING THIS KOSOVO STUFF? SHE USED THE SNIPER FIRE/EVASIVE MANEUVER STUFF AGAIN THIS WEEK. CANT SHE ADMIT SHE PADDED HER RESUME AND MOVE ON AND FOCUS ON HER SENATE EXPERIENCE?

PLEASE LET SINBAD GO BACK TO OBLIVION WHERE HE BELONGS!!

THEY HAVE VIDEOTAPE OF THE LANDING FOR CHRIST SAKE.

IM AN OBAMA SUPPORTER AND IT EMBARRASSES ME.

cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???)

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces, totally serious about these digestive yogurts: What I don't understand is how you can think "He can't win one group without betraying another." I don't see it as a zero-sum equation. I do not recognize how it is a betrayal to ANYONE to patiently explain WHY people like Wright feel the way they do, instead of some disingenuous attempt to distance himself from Wright and anyone who has ever expressed discontent with the country's status quo, just because it might make uninformed or dismissive people uncomfortable. The fact that Bill Clinton was willing to make these kinds of sacrifices (Elders, Welfare) does not endear him to me. In fact it's this kind of cynical political-bargain-making that makes me reject Bill, along with Hillary, who has shown the same propensity.

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces, totally serious about these digestive yogurts: Maybe Obama was taking a longer view and realized he probably wasn't going to be able to take Pennsylvania. He doesn't need to, anyway. He just needs to hold Clinton to a reasonable lead there -- and that holds for the rest of the states he has to fight.

I think in the general election having addressed the Wright issue in the way he did will play well. One of the big problems both Kerry and Gore had is that they kept changing their images and ended up looking like floppy ol' losers as a result. Both Obama and Clinton have done good jobs of image control. It makes me hopeful for the fall.

As far as welfare reform being an example of compromise, I strenuously disagree. That was a straight-up sellout. Bush has shown how much power the president has to squelch the opposition when he sees the need. Between Waco and the welfare reform act I lost pretty much all hope that Clinton was going to be anything other than Republican Lite. It was a huge disappointment to see him screwing the people who elected him.

nerdsausage is a busysausage

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces, totally serious about these digestive yogurts:

Well...maybe this is in hindsight...but I wouldn't have expected Mondale, Kerry, Dukakis etc to pull red states. Maybe Carter first time...but that's it. That's part of the problem with the DNC. They reinforce the idea they are just a party of cobbled together special interests.

The "but it's a caucus state" stuff is bunk. What that shows is that the obama campaign has far better organization. The only places Hillary does ok is where political machines are already set up for her to exploit. obama makes his own. He couldn't have been successful against someone that has control of all the machines except Chicago and the conventional fundraising structure without that kind of organization.

I would like to think we could at least agree that Hillary has run an awful campaign for most of this election cycle...and that's what has put her in this position. I think how well obama's campaign is organized and how well it functions speaks well for obama's management skills.

The hillary campaign just keeps making it excuses. They keep looking for a metric in which they look good. Now they are talking about electoral votes. It's pathetic. Hillary's criticism of all these problems she has with the logistics of the dem nomination were NEVER mentioned until politically convenient. Just see the revote stuff for that.

cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???)

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???): Don't kid yourself--Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, CA, TX--these states matter. Wyoming, Iowa, who cares. By the way, why is Obama not courting Florida voters on this a bit? Not fucking smart. They will happily go for McCain. He should accept the loss, cuz it will help him far more when/if he gets the nom. Don't get where his people are on that at ALL.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @nerdsausage is in the tank for SATAN: It's less that there's one or the other than that in the primary and election season, you only have so long to tell your STORY. You know? So don't go into the big grad student critique of racism in the country. Stake out a plan, stake out your positions, stick to your talking points. I don't need someone who can write a sophisticated term paper, I need someone who finds microloan programs sexy and knows we sometimes have to bomb things.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces, totally serious about these digestive yogurts: That Michigan "election" hardly counts as genuinely indicative of anything.

NotNotLickingToads

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @marin79: You're right...I do. I think this idea is a stretch...particularly when you consider the only state Hillary has won that is a swing state is OH.

All things considered I don't think that this is an argument that favors Hillary. It may be a wash...but it doesn't favor Hillary.

cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???)

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @PhillyLass: The answer is in the question. Buchanan's brilliant at crafting a soundbite, and his particular kind of conservative old-dude rhetoric resonates with a lot of other conservative old dudes. He sounds scarily like my grandfather a lot of the time.

nerdsausage is a busysausage

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces lover of digestive yogurts: which is more patriotic, blind nationalism or a reasoned critique of your homeland? One of the great American myths of the last 40 years is that yr either for us or agin us. One of the best bits of Obama's speech was him talking about America in terms of it being perfectible without being perfect. No nation is perfect, and I don't think it's being ungrateful or unfair to point out America's very real problems. Barack and Michelle have turned out well, but they've had to do it in the face of all kinds of obstacles that white professionals just haven't.

I also think it's ironic that the same media that are playing a tight loop of Wright's speeches and talking about how divisive he is were talking over and over again just a few months ago about how Obama wasn't black enough to win the black vote.

It's just like how Hillary is either an emotionless, calculating Demodroid or a weak wimpy floppy teary-eyed girl. It seemed to be beyond the realm of possibility that she's just a tough campaigner who had a down moment. There's loads of identity politics going on in this race, but often it's not the candidates themselves playing the cards.

nerdsausage is a busysausage

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???): The swing states he won for the most part were caucus states, which generally have little bearing on how things go in the primaries, or they were states in which the black vote was crucial--a vote that holds great power in our primary season and far less in the general. (Yet another argument for D.C. statehood). Gimme a swing state, I'll give you my trademarked opinion.

By the way, if we started turning red states, that would be fine with me. I was just alive for Mondale, Carter, Kerry, et al, watching the country bleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed. We've tried this before, you know. You have to give us old folks a little while to catch up to your future, if it's really a'comin.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces lover of digestive yogurts: ugh, i almost forgot about joycelyn - that is disgusting, all in.

whyknot

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???): I called it! And no, in my opinion, he hasn't won any true swing state. But maybe I have a stricter definition than others.

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces lover of digestive yogurts: Careful there - everytime you say Obama hasn't won a "purple" primary you get people throwing states like Virginia at you. (Even though I grew up in VA & no way it's going Blue any time soon! Will be happy to eat my words though!)

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces lover of digestive yogurts:

So you're saying that Obama didn't win any swing states?

cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???)

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @westvillagegirl: @whyknot: No, there is a HUGE place for integrity, please do not get me wrong. It is fundamental. But one has to live to fight another day, more often than not.

(My personal low point was the jettisoning of Joycelyn Elders. To ditch that smart lady! To not stand up for masturbation! The then irony of the signifying cigar!)

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces lover of digestive yogurts: but no place for genuine integrity in politics? really? cynic of the day?

whyknot

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @westvillagegirl: You're totally free to feel that way, obviously! And if you read the comment, I've said he's in a bind. He can't win one group without betraying another. My point is, right now, we're in the happy abstract land of the primary, where we are only betraying principles, and nothing has real-world results (besides someone like you or someone like me taking a different view of them, obviously). But if he becomes President, the vagaries of personal principles will be connected to genuine things, i.e.--he won't be talking about the history of busing, he'll be advocating for (or against) something as incendiary as busing. He has yet to show me he can take a stand, which is worrisome.

Proclaiming there's deep and complicated reasons it's okay his closely aligned with someone patently divisive when his CAMPAIGN is about not being divisive is deeply hypocritical. Do I CARE that he's aligned with Wright? I don't care! Do I think Wright is some traitorous demagogue? No. Do I agree with Obama's speech? Certainly, it's not saying anything deeply problematic. It's just not going to move mountains except with liberal commentators, with whom I'm deeply appalled this is revelatory.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces lover of digestive yogurts: sorry, you rightfully called me out on that one.

whyknot

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @J.D.Regent: Well, herein, you get into the issue of whether crappy campaigning has actually achieved results. He's won a ton of caucus states that either always go with us or never well. When you take into account Fla and Michigan, he and Hillary are about equal in the popular. (Calm down, ladies! I'm not making an argument for seating, I'm speaking of the reality.) He has failed to pull any purple primaries.

Meaning, in brief, in terms of how the DNC and particular states have decided we pick our candidate, he's a winner. In terms of how well this reflects electability in the general, he's a loser, in my view.

This is debatable, obviously.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @rsr26: Then you saw something different than I did. Rev. Wright didn't spend a whole lot of time talking about white people at all in the clips I saw. He was talking about black people and their situation vis-a-vis America. I can understand how you could interpret that as 'raving about whitey' since you seem unable to not make it all about YOU. Believe it or not, black people can go whole minutes without thinking about white folks. We can actually sit down and have a conversation and not mention white people once. Someone like you would have a problem understanding that because you seem to think that the world revolves around YOU. It doesn't.

topsy

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces lover of digestive yogurts: "I'm annoyed at Obama on the Wright issue because a politician has to learn to jettison dead weights, not explain to those who are offended why it's really okay."

Entonces, I must disagree with you. Heartily. If Obama had "jettisoned the dead weight," I would think much less highly of him. I realize this takes a nuanced understanding of his relationship with Wright and the private sentiments of black america, and I realize that many americans are not open to (or in many cases, capable of) that level of sophistication. But I humbly aver that we are, indeed, capable of rising above this kind of petty cynicism ... that, in fact, this country was founded on lofty (and some said naive or overly ambitious) principles and optimism. I say that cynical, lowest-common denominator thinking and expectations are to blame for the compromise that that led to the initial dilution of those principles (namely, in the avoidance of the continental congress and constitutional framers to address slavery.) Often, doing the politically expedient thing (ie. compromise, as you seem to require of Obama here, as the representatives from southern colonies did of those from the north) results in a near-total revocation and mockery of your principles. If Obama had "jettisoned" Wright he'd be just as hypocritical as McCain, who now disavows his 2000 statements about Falwell and Robertson being "toxic." He says now that they're an important voice. If that's compromise, I'll take rainbows and fairy tales any day.

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> again, i'm 220 posts in and i wont get read, because i DEF didn't go through all this stuff this morning, though i usually like this feature. trim this down guys! at least those huge block quotes. too much too early! (said the girl in california)

crazylazy

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> Sorry, my database went out. What is it you're calling patently absurd?

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces lover of digestive yogurts: I think he will have to come up with a slightly or very different tack in the general election. i think he will be able to be much more aggressive then, and the change platform will frankly make more sense. I mean, I did not get on the Obama train until recently, after Edwards left. I had/have many of your skepticism about the woozy, intoxicating aroma of the Obama platform. But then I started to just see it as really effective. I heard Republicans compare him to Nixon. He was all things to all people. Rather than see it as a flaw as I did in the beginning, a kind of lie, I just started seeing it as brilliant campaigning. Isn't that exactly what a good presidential candidate does?

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces lover of digestive yogurts: I get the first half of your post. You're right--from a political perspective, Obama should maybe distance himself. But the second half the comment is no more true in the abstract than it is in the real. The generalization was patently absurd, and I'm going to call that out. I apologize for "schooling" you (I am, in fact, a teacher--it's in my nature, I guess), but the second half of the argument made no sense.

snarkhunting

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @J.D.Regent: Wait, what are we keeping private? Oh, our nutsos? Because our nutsos say things like, "The chickens have come home to roost!" This is reductive and offensive even to me. I could get into the intricacies of why, but the basic point is--God knows how that would play in Altoona if it pisses ME, miss bleeding heart, off.

And also, furthermore, for Chrissakes, fucking MALCOLM X RENOUNCED THAT a jillion years ago. Still not the best talking point, people.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces lover of digestive yogurts: Then maybe you shouldn't comment in such broad strokes. I wouldn't feel the need to "school" you if you didn't write SUCH HUGE GENERALIZATIONS.

xay

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @J.D.Regent: Please inform Snark and Xay I'm not retarded. ;) Guys, I am attempting to make an argument for how Obama should position himself, for what is true in the abstract, but that the Right basically puts forth because they are disgusting. I am in agreement: they are disgusting.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @xay: XAY, DON'T SCHOOL ME IN THE EFFING OBVIOUS!!!!! For Christ's sake. First of all, I agree with you about Africa--if you click to the article, you'll see I was talking about Liberians returning for the same reason.

Second, feel free to assume--because you'll be correct--that I am 100% in line with your politics. You want to have an argument starting from that line, I'm fine. Inform me Philly has a black community, I'll scream.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces lover of digestive yogurts: i pretty much agree. the whole thing is fucking, so dumb. but why DO we have to keep ours private, again?

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> Snark (politely) please don't school me in Crappy Hour 101. I did not belabor the point that the black community (which of course is strongly working class, particularly in the Midwest) has historically had difficulty allying with the white working class community (mainly because of the white working class community) because I didn't think it needed a point-by-point explanation.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces lover of digestive yogurts: really making me want to wave that flag, entonces. so i'm voting for welfare reform is the best we can hope for, forget about racism until the riots start again, but don't start any riots, style progressivism? remember i voted for nader and kucinich in the previous two elections; this is as close as i get to pragmatism.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @rsr26: He absolutely was! However, I don't have a problem with that. All politicians do that, and Obama has written how it was also personally meaningful for him to do so, which is also fine. That's something a lot of people raised outside what you'd consider (I mean this very loosely) the "traditional" black community have done when they come of age.

What bugs me is how his supporters keep going into contortions to offer a defense. It doesn't need a defense, and it's also something the white community, which could not be expressing more ignorance about the black church both in their support and their condemnation, isn't going to understand in the three months leading up to the nom.

It doesn't matter how many wackos like Buchanan you see on the right. The Right LOVES its wackos IN PUBLIC. The Left has to keep ours private.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> Right. And all the Jews ought to be grateful for the Holocaust because it ended up getting them a lot of privileges, not just in Germany.

Way to go, Pat. Next you'll be asking for the Nobel Peace Prize.

Loreley

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @J.D.Regent: He's taking the short view. This country *hates* talking about race. The three most successful integraters: Army, sports, public schools, with Lyndon Johnson SHOVING it down the South's throat. You have to force people through law an circumstance, nor appeal to their better natures. Better natures want different things.

Rookie error!

I took my coffee with Cynica this morning, but I basically have American history on my side. Changing the tone is important too, though, I agree, and it bears results that come further down the pike.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Pat Buchanan Thinks You Should Be More Thankful For Slavery, Barry Obama]]> @entonces lover of digestive yogurts: yeah, i can't really get on board with (Clinton style) welfare reform as the kind of compromise i want my president to make (not to say i'm entirely convinced obama won't make some similar compromise). call me obemo for it if you must.

J.D.Regent

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