<![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>? - Jezebel Comments]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>? - Jezebel Comments]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @dutchtwista: Exactly. The CIA used drugs to fund the Contras and equip them with weapons without needing to secure a budget.

cde

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> Major problem with premise of this post: Patterson's affair was NOTHING like Spitzer's or Clinton's...because his wife cheated on him FIRST. Cut him slack for turning to another woman to sort out his justifiably bruised feelings.

the other thing: The CIA/crack conspiracy is not some nutcake fantasy. The Agency didn't invent freebase but its agents facilitated and profited from the cocaine trade. It's documented fact, corroborated by investigative reporters (Gary Webb/SJ Merc.) Senate Committee hearings and the obvious fact that the flood of cheap raw cocaine into America's cities could not have happened during a "Drug War" without massive government complicity. look it up.

dutchtwista

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> Lunch hour.

@katastic: You are correct. I get the "this is an A & B thing" and I wasn't in the debate. I apologize. I should have couched my comments in a more universal manner which is tricky because it is not up to me to speak for other people. Plus I was late to work and I was mad. I have read SR's comments for some time now and it's my opinion those who take issue, those often with a position that I agree with, have been met with condescension and dismissed by SR. I may be the only one to find her so.

@SinisterRouge on Notice!: Thanks for the response. Healing race relations is a feat that neither he nor anyone else can accomplish in one presidency, as I believe he said something to the effect of in his speech. Not by his voice or support or anything else. Perhaps, though, his wonderful and powerful voice will get his supporters to at least TRY. As far as likening him to MLK goes, I don't think MLK was perceived to talk as MLK by the general public at the time. If they had been, Selma, the bus boycott, etc., would not have been necessary. His voice and logic would have been sufficient and convincing. It was only in hindsight that his speeches were regarded with such respect.

Parasol

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @Political Party Girl: what, you've not been barraged w/tons of credit card offers? how is this possible? glad you resisted. what the hell is going on in NY and NJ? something in the water? is it better to have a new guv who cheats vs the old one who pays the pros? geez! and the mcgropers are the limit!

whyknot

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @whyknot: I'm 23. Clearly someone should have been giving me mounds of credit I did not deserve. (Although, really, I'm grateful. While I'm responsible with money, I didn't need that kind of temptation.)

Political Party Girl

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @cheerupsylvia: I think you're correct. Basically, if these investment banks have access to the Fed (they haven't up until yesterday since technically, the Fed is there to protect commercial banks only), their clients can have comfort that they can get their cash out, trades won't default, etc. This doesn't mean that some of these client's won't be so spooked that they pull their business anyway & the bank goes down b/c of poor earnings (the normal way these things happen), but it should take the liquidity-forced bankruptcy off the table for the meantime.

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @marin79: I know I'm generalizing and purposely to be humorous. But am I wrong about the clients of Bear, GS, Lehman, etc?

Pardon my ignorance...but I just don't associate average folk business going their way.

I'm just curious.

cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???)

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @katastic: Serves me right for not tuning into Jezebel every day :(

cde

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @marin79: It basically turned out to be a big shell game. Mortgage companies hid a lot of the bad risks from their investors, by shuffling them around and selling them off to other companies. My wife and I refinanced twice in the last 4 years to take advantage of favorable rates, and each time, within a month, our loan was sold to someone else.

NefariousNewt

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> I will just say this on that Obama speech. It was not particularly politically advantageous to take on the topics that he took on in that speech.

It would have been much safer for him to just disown Wright.

cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???)

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @marin79: GE did a whole lot of originating as well. funding for a lot of this hokey stuff did come from wall street banks and the repo market blew up since bear was so toxic no one would trade with them. important to remove the worst counterparty. the rating agencies are the ultimate in high-class whores you are most correct in pointing a finger in that direction. can't leave out the insolvent bond insurers either. off-exchange securitization is never properly priced, i think.

whyknot

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @SinisterRouge on Notice!: I was genuinely curious. You mentioned oil and war...then how long you were for Obama. It just made me curious...sorry.

Gawker???economics???

What??? Was there a Milton Friedman sighting in Manhattan?

cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???)

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @Smackdown: Lol - yeah, we're not heading for a Depression b/c thankfully we have the governmental support that is needed to prevent that type of thing (evident by the Fed stepping in this weekend). But I do think thinks will get worse before it gets better. I feel sorry for Bernake! The man's not going to get a good night's sleep for a long time. We'll find out in an hour what kind of rate cut we're getting this time around also.

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @katastic: I have to say that the parts of this speech I was able to catch make me a little more enthusiastic about his candidacy than before. I'm not totally committed to him yet -- it's going to take more than one speech. But he impressed me in that he continued his denunciation of what the reverend said, while at the same time putting his relationship with the reverend in context (officiated his marriage, baptized his children, etc.). The politically expedient thing to do is denounce someone it the strongest, crudest terms. He took the high road and decided not to turn the reverend into a demon.

NefariousNewt

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @whyknot: First of all, there's a misconception out there that the bulk of these bad mortgages were actually originated by Wall Street firms. Don't get me wrong, they did their part in holding & selling a lot of these loans, but they aren't the root cause either. Also, the amount of those subprime & alta-a loans are actually a small percentage of the whole mortgage market. However, the effect of those loans going bad pretty much screwed up everything, so the overall percentage probably doesn't matter, huh?! Also, an oversight body out there for investors are the various rating agencies. They clearly dropped the ball here as well & definitely deserve to share some of the blame.

Also, most of these banks didn't get just pass on the risk of these loans to customers - they actually shared heavily in it, which is why they & everyone else out there are in troubled waters. Letting Bear go didn't do jack for fixing the underlying problem. Not to mention, Bear didn't even go down b/c of the mortgages on its books anyway - it went down b/c of market panic. And the ramifications hurt all employees who weren't at the top pulling in those big bucks. There's a common misconception that everyone working at these banks is rolling in the dough. It's not really true. (But yeah, I feel esp bad for those people who are truly at the bottom of the pay scale since on top of everything else, they're probably less likely to be offered jobs at JP). Heartbreaking.

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @SinisterRouge on Notice!: really, it was that horrid? you're v. funny!

whyknot

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @marin79: If history is our guide, then they will not have learned a thing.

NefariousNewt

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @Political Party Girl: hmm, back then we had rules in the financial markets. have you heard of the glass-steagal act? it was a very nice law that kept the beasts in check. unfortunately, bill clinton tossed it in 1999, which was a hugely bad idea, IMO.

whyknot

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> My husband and I both work for financial firms, so obvs, this is pretty big stuff around these parts of the woods.

That being said, I think there is, as always, a middle ground. I really, really don't think we're going to see another Great Depression. We know a lot more about fiscal policy than we did before, and there are a lot more stopgaps in place, not to mention a far more global economy.

I do think it's time to pay the piper, and this is going to be an ugly recession, but I don't think anyone's going to be jumping out of windows anytime soon. Generally speaking, I think there is this thing that commonly gets used on the internets called "hyperbole" and I am even guilty of it myself, but usually it falls somewhere in the middle. The government has shown its willingness to get involved, and half our shit might be owned by China in the end, but I don't think anyone's going to be Grapes of Wrathing out to Cali to breastfeed some hobo.

Smackdown

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @tscheese: All of that makes me think that maybe there's not valuation, just hand-waving.

arodriguez.romero speaks java

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @whyknot: @SinisterRouge on Notice!: The 6 loneliest hours of my life... ;)

Political Party Girl

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @marin79: Dude! Dude, dude dude, if my post ever shows up, I just ranted about the exact same thing! There has to be a hierarchy of command that noticed these insane valuation problems, right?

And yeah, I attended a seminar--at the Westin, actually, in Times Square--given by Price Waterhouse Coopers, not too long ago, and some of these weird derivative instruments are so complicated that it just makes my head spin. They did a big segment on security pricing and it was absolutely beyond me. Fortunately my firm doesn't deal with securities like that, and I'm pretty low on the totem pole as these things go. But the mind: it boggles.

tscheese

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @Political Party Girl: ok, you've probably got me there but really i'm sure it was at least a long crappy hours worth of obama support! i liked the speech but am not sure it was worth tying up traffic on st. pat's weekend in chicago while he was home working on it. geez, hope he didn't go to church last weekend!

whyknot

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @arodriguez.romero: I am actually no good at risk at all--I don't deal with mortgage backed securities at all in my line of work, and everything my firm deals with is S&P AA or AAA.

But surely these firms have Boards of Directors who look at any material compliance problems on regular intervals, right? If firms are having incredible problems with having REALISTIC prices on their securities--no matter what flavor the securities are--isn't there some kind of oversight in the higherups? Or am I getting the horrible, creeping icy feeling that the corruption just stacks up that high!?

I don't like conspiracy theories, but it's like, when the rich wage their little money wars on each other, it's the poor who suffer. It's the schlubs like you and me who are just trying to bring home paychecks and understand the whole mess.

tscheese

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @whyknot: What I want to know is where was all this "easy" money when I was paying for college and taking out student loans to buy groceries!?!?

Political Party Girl

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @tscheese: Unfortunately, auditors should have been the first line of defense in terms of these valuation issues, but some of these instruments are so complex who knows if they really get them.

@nameredacted: I don't know where you worked, but I don't believe that kind of behavour was pervasive everywhere (or at least where I work, as far as I know anyway).

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @cheerupsylvia: Funny that you say that since I started posting on Gawker last year specifically regarding economics. But thanks for the dig anyway.

I was for going into Iraq until a few months later when I realized it was all based on Bush lying and being a total scumbag motherfucker. But yeah, another nice one by you. I thought we were having a nice discussion and you gotta go and get all nasty.

SinisterRouge

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @marin79: what i find vaguely amusing in an insane kind of way is the idea that real people have borrowed most of the anonymous mortgage money. let's see, if a bank allows you to borrow w/o so much as a w-2 or tax return or pay stub who might notice that first - criminals? why yes indeedy, it will turn out in the end that gobs of sub, alt-a, whatevs the nickname was actually money that was stolen from willingly defrauded banks. why did they like to be defrauded? b/c they repackaged the morts and sell them to others - thus retaining little risk and getting some whopping bonus checks. letting bear go was a pretty expedient way to get a handle on the problem, but i feel so bad for the clerks & secretarys, etc, just holding down an average job, which vanished in a weekend. same for the delta folks. capitalism is a bare knuckle system.

whyknot

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @SinisterRouge on Notice!: How long were you for the Iraq war...speaking of oil and war?

cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???)

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> OMG...Sinister is creeping into economics...everyone brace yourselves:)

cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???)

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @arodriguez.romero: Re:We need that kind of access to credit for people who otherwise remain poor. Unfort. now we need to tighten credit b/c of this problem it means that people like that have to wait

And the Fed wants to lower interest rates AGAAAIN today. I just want to take Bernanke by the shoulders, sit him down in a chair, and be like "honey, people gotta eat. I don't want to be hocking all my silver for a few bruised potatoes a few years from now."

One of the big probs I have here is that the Fed is all "Dudes! Check it out! Free-for-all! Hi, our interest rates are super low!" and the public is all "DUDE, those low interest rates were what started this out-of-control borrowing. We're hiding now. We're terrified. What are we supposed to buy on credit if we think the end times are nigh?"

God, this is so ugly. I need to go for a walk. It's beautiful out in NYC today...but not inside my heart.

tscheese

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @Political Party Girl:It was for about 6 horrifying hours.

SinisterRouge

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @whyknot: For one weird horrifying day I certainly was. Then I got my mind right. ;)

SinisterRouge

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @marin79: So the trust funds are safe? Phew....that's a weight off my mind;)

cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???)

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @Political Party Girl: Meant treasury bonds, so how government debt is trading! If you own a bond that bear issued (as in their debt, not just a bond they issued on behalf of someone else), check with your financial advisor about what happens (my guess is you'll be okay since you're one of those people the Fed acted to protect, but I definitely don't know enough to say anything for sure!)

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @whyknot: Oh come on now, it was a BRIEF moment of insanity. Something to which we all are entitled. And she wasn't so much pro-Obama as she was anti-Clinton. Besides, it was for less than a day. Actually, less than an hour, I think.

Political Party Girl

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @tscheese: Exactly. A bunch of bad mortgages in and of themselves cannot cause the absolute madness we see now. It's the fact that they sliced and diced and sold these as securities to investors with AAA ratings and drove up the prices of housing and over-valued the investor portfolios themselves (thanks to deregulation that this was even allowed) and the banks' lack of regulating this that is the reason for this huge mess. Oh yeah, and Oil. And war. And a bunch of other shit that makes me rage-y.

SinisterRouge

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @tscheese: Re: pricing!
Just how do they do that? We argued yesterday at work about how you value the risk in the borrower. I think there must be a time component somehow, like, how far is the lender from the start of the loan? And how do they track what further debts the borrower incures?

arodriguez.romero speaks java

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> A few years back I worked for a financial-services firm in a non-wonky capacity and sat in on a meeting of senior managers discussing adjustable-rate mortgages they knew people couldn't afford over time.

Half the managers seemed vaguely ashamed of the strategy, the other half had foam dripping from their fangs.

At that point I should have shifted my investments from earrings and cupcakes to gold bars stacked under my bed. The end-times draw close.

nameredacted

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @SinisterRouge on Notice!: hi sin - have to call BS on you, superstar... you briefly pretended to be an obama supporter right here on this fine web site! oh, yes you did! love you still...

whyknot

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @katastic: True. Keeping investor confidence is all that really matters these days. Bear wasn't able to calm the market (even though they were reporting on balance sheet facts) & then it was over. Even Lehman was having trouble doing the same thing yesterday & the Fed decided after Bear that they'd start lending directly to investment banks! Lehman can't have a liquidity crisis since the govt will give them as much as they need! But still people are spooked & every time their CEO says anything reassuring, their stock goes down! I have friend there who are freaking out!

(And just as a note, if the Fed had decided to lend directly to investment banks 3 days ago, Bear would still exist).

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> I work in a compliance/legal capacity for a financial institution (hey dudes, it's not always just cheap wine and kittens for La Tscheese! I actually am, like, multifaceted! Or something!) and I've been very interested lately in the push by the regulators to make financial institutions aware of their pricing procedures. Pre- and post-mortgage crunch, one of the BIIIG problems amongst mortgage-backed securities was the sheer difficulty of attempting to price them. You can't just pull your securities pricing out of thin air.

I really would love to see more emphasis on corporate oversight and responsibility. These huge firms have an immense responsibility to the public, to their shareholders, and--even to their rival firms, since everyone trades everyone else's securities.

SinisterRouge is right: the market, by itself, is like a rabid crazy creature. It doesn't just "repair" itself. It needs regulation, oversight, and transparency. I'm not saying that would have totally prevented the mess we're in now, but dudes, if I'm just a dumb kid who'd rather have an Appletini the size of a Mister Coffee carafe than, y'know, be at work today? And if I can see there's a problem? There's a problem.

tscheese

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @SinisterRouge on Notice!: Hold up - in the Daou post on Gawker yesterday you said you would vote for Obama if he were the Dem candidate. Which is it?

I'm legitimately curious. I've been following these Crappy Hours forever, particularly your comments, which I love even when I hate.

Garnette

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @marin79: Uh oh... bonds? I have bonds with Bear Stearns. I totally forgot about that.

Political Party Girl

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @tscheese: Lol - I'll probably bump into you at the wine store! (Can we meet at one that sells those $8 bottles? :)

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @NefariousNewt: Sorry, but it's really easy for you to say that you saw this coming "a mile away" now that it has happened. And logically speaking, if you look at the amount of lapsed mortgages and credit card debt, there's no way you will ever come up with an amount large enough to affect the economy this drastically. I am no economist, but I think a lot of this has to do with businesses taking big risks with borrowed money as well.

Political Party Girl

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @arodriguez.romero: No, it's not always bad. it's bad when a bank gives a mortgage to a client that does not even have verifiable income.

SinisterRouge

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @Lymed: Exactly. The rules that were there to prevent banks from handing out credit like crazy to less-than-qualified borrowers is what's driving this entire thing. And that's a lack of deregulation and government interference against regulation. It's awful and it's not cyclical at all.

SinisterRouge

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @NefariousNewt: Agreed. People have very short memories in these situations. I know plenty of people who really are learning their lessons this time around though… jury will be out for a while as to whether this lesson sticks permanently though!

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @SinisterRouge on Notice!: My take is that it's not always a bad thing to have loose access to credit, because credit is how people acquire real property like business and real estate. Rule-of-thumb says don't extend yourself past 30% for your housing but my folks took out a huge loan for a house with a biz. attached. They overextended themselves in order to make their biz. succeed.
We need that kind of access to credit for people who otherwise remain poor. Unfort. now we need to tighten credit b/c of this problem it means that people like that have to wait.

arodriguez.romero speaks java

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @NefariousNewt: What's happening now is not just cyclical. We haven't always had banks giving out mortgages like candy. I've heard a number of stories of things like people going into banks to take out mortgages and the lender telling them they will just add $10,000 or $20,000 to their salary on the application so they can get a larger loan. The housing bubble was insane, and the government and the industry completely ignored it. Plus, the bubble was made larger by the industry purposefully inflating prices. Governments and nonprofits are suddenly facing insane interest on bonds because they were convinced to use bond auctions and now they can't sell on the auction.

Lymed

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @cheerupsylvia: Yep, that sounds about right. Investors, employees, etc. are feeling the brunt of the economic ramification. I believe that clients & counterparties are more okay b/c the Fed & JP are serving as a backstop, which was the group that they were actually trying to bailout. It was the shareholders who lost everything pretty much overnight (that includes a ton of employees), which is why many are publically threatening to vote against the deal. As much as it sucks now, for any economic geek out there, we are really living history. But that doesn't really make things any better now though! :)

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @arodriguez.romero: It's what people that are neoclassical economist (Friedman) thinkers base their philosophy on. And that poster is notorious for it. It's incorrect and has been proven wrong time and again. The whole idea is that the market will correct itself. It won't. It gets deregulated to the point of no oversight and inevitably a recession happens. It's happened every time.

SinisterRouge

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @TriedandTrue: @tscheese: @NefariousNewt: @Lymed: Thanks. My little brother is a trader and what he said was very similar to what you said, Nefarious Newt. While my job is likely not to be directly affected by the economic downturn, I think it's probably a good idea to be scared shitless so I start being smarter with my money.

KittenFluff

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @marin79: Based on the way my day is going, I might have to "fuel my local economy" by buying another bottle tonight. :(

tscheese

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @SinisterRouge on Notice!: See? I knew there was some way to blame Bush.

katastic

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @girlscoutcookie: Ha, I'm weird, but for me I think I actually dislike Obama totally irrationally for that reason and I have to keep reminding myself that his policy platform is ok by me. I hate speeches. I hate them with all my heart. And I'm definitely not just saying that because I have to trawl through 60 pages of Tony Blair's speeches tomorrow armed only with my mental strength and a highlighter.

rah29

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @SinisterRouge on Notice!: Somebody yesterday, tetrachloride, was saying the same thing, but to point out that credit is cyclical. Access to credit is easy sometimes and hard at other times, just like markets. We need a certain amount of "cycling".

arodriguez.romero speaks java

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @NefariousNewt: It's not cyclical. That's a common angle to come from in laissez-faire economics. It's very much driven by macroeconomic polices by the government and how much or how little regulation there is in the market.

SinisterRouge

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @NefariousNewt: You always say reasonable things. The reason you need to say them is that you can't expect reasonable behavior from people! ;)

arodriguez.romero speaks java

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @katastic: Any video as well? I'm a greedy Obama speech whore, it seems.

blubirde

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @SinisterRouge on Notice!: The good news is, if we go into a depression, we get cheery little red-headed orphan to sing us into Tomorrow!

katastic

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @NefariousNewt: UM, actually not that simple. A lot of is the massive amount of de-regulation in the banking industry thanks to the Republicans and bush. Every single time Republicans are in charge, they deregulate the markets to the hilt. See 1929, 1987,1991 and soon to be 2008. They deregulate to the point that there's no oversight and banks are allowed to do the most irresponsible stuff imaginable. The whole "dumb people took out mortgages to big for them" is but a small part of the problem. Politics, and the oligarchy is a much bigger issue.

SinisterRouge

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @marin79: A good point in the article is why investors are acting on rumors; because companies keep lying or misleading them. There's no trust, so everyone panics and acts on rumors.

katastic

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @tscheese: Pretty terrifying stuff. A lot of investors are acting on rumors alone here. It also didn't help that this happened when Bear (and these other firms) were in an SEC imposed media black-out period, so they couldn't say a word about their earnings or balance sheet until they were scheduled to release official earnings, regulatory filings, etc. So there wasn't much that Bear could actually come out to the market & say to reassure it - even if it was true that the company's operations were sound. It was straight up George Bailey & It's a Wonderful Life… except there was no do-over there.

Well, probably not anyway… tons of investors have said they're going to oppose the deal & it's stock price is right around $8 today (the deal was done for $2). That would indicate that people are betting it doesn't happen. So much uncertainty… the market is up one minute & tanking the next. Not to even mention how bond prices are reacting (which is what mortgage rates are closely tied to). Ugh, I'm getting a headache just thinking about it! (That or b/c of the bottle of wine I downed last night to numb myself from this stuff!)

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @Lymed: oH YES. I totally agree. I think we're in for a VERY deep recession, if not an outright Depression. No doubt.

SinisterRouge

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @katastic: Thanks!

blubirde

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @tscheese: And I hear rats have, like, no carbs.

katastic

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @marin79: The sad part is, all this is cyclical -- you can see it coming a mile away. The economy heats up and everyone spends money like it's going out of style. Then, things start to get iffy ad suddenly everyone calls in their markers. People stop buying things, especially on credit. Banks stop offering credit to just about anyone and begin putting the squeeze on anyone who owes them money. Fund managers and mortgage brokers weep over their computer screens as they watch the value of all their investments plummet, knowing they don't have enough cash to back the losses even minimally. And this is nothing new!

People have to break the credit habit. The economy needs to grow at a slow and steady pace in order to maintain forward momentum. And banks have to stop handing out credit like candy.

NefariousNewt

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @blubirde: Scroll up, a couple of people linked to it at huffington post.

katastic

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @katastic: After all, didn't he tell everybody to do their bit for the war effort by...shopping?

rah29

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @katastic: *Bush. I blame Bush. Sorry. Hate spasm.

katastic

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> Anyone know where I can find the entire speech online? I can only find snippets myself.

blubirde

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @KittenFluff feels vommy: You may prefer to stay ignorant on this one. I describe what is going on with our economy in one word: terrifying. I believe we are headed for the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression. I can't explain exactly what is happening and why, because I don't understand it all.

Lymed

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @myrtlebeachbum: I actually love mustard and relish. MMMMM.

katastic

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @katastic: I kind of... agree with you 100%. Well said.

girlscoutcookie voted for Obama and it felt goooood.

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @marin79: I like to just blame Buch. Makes my hate niiiiice and focused.

katastic

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @KittenFluff feels vommy: Simple: people are spending money they don't have, that was given to them by banks and mortgage companies. Now the bills have come due and there's no money. Result: people are not buying anything because they have to pay down their debt, and they can't pay down their debt because they don't have enough money. And when they do have some money, they pay down their high-interest credit cards because they're tired of paying 39% interest. And suddenly the banks and mortgage companies, which handed out a lot of this not-money, are collapsing because they didn't a) think the housing boom would ever end and b) didn't build sufficient cash reserves to weather the impending storm.

So there you have - the simple version of heading into the doom and gloom of recession.

NefariousNewt

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> Yeah. Fine. It's a good speech. All his speeches are good. That's what he does, give good speeches. My problem is, that's all he does. He's a great orator. Too many people have taken that to indicate he'll be a great President.

girlscoutcookie voted for Obama and it felt goooood.

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @ShanaElmsford: He actually does mention Hillary. SinRo's argument is not unfounded. I just trust him more than she does. :)

katastic

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> i've been insulated here in flyover country from the truly devastating and traumatic effects that people who work in the banking and equities communities have been going through since last august. i feel sincere empathy for everyone who put in the long hours of their best work for venerable companies like Bear Stearns, an 85 year old institution that survived every economic calamity in nearly a century. some of my past comments on this board do not reflect my genuine anguish about what has happened, is happening, and unfortunately will probably continue to happen to affect all of us.
the lives of others are our own lives.

krismry

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @SinisterRouge on Notice!: I mean here's my point: from my perspective, Ferraro's comments were pretty accurate, in that Obama is given more leeway in this campaign as a black MAN than a white WOMAN is, because people are more afraid of being overtly racist than misogynist. I thought it was stupid of her to put it so undiplomatically, and that's why she had to quit the campaign. In much the same light, I think Pastor Wright is a little bit a of a crackpot, but not a crazy crackpot. That's pretty typical governmental paranoia stuff he's dishing out there. I mean, I know older black men and women who believe much the same thing about the origins of the AIDS virus, and they're not crackpots; they're simply inclined to believe that the government is out to get them. The point, however, is not my perspective. From a Media Outrage standpoint, Ferraro's statements were depicted as " Racist White Woman says Being A Black Man is Easy", and Wright's statements were depicted as "Crazy Black Man Convinces Obama to hate White People". Both of which are incorrect, and both of which are designed to sell papers and inflame racial/ sexual divisions within the party. I think that's Obama's point, that they have been similarly mis-broadcast. But then I give him more credit than you do. I found the overreaction to both Wright and Ferraro enraging. And the Republicans are laughing it up, let me tell you. How are we letting racists right-wing pundits like Limbaugh and Tucker Carlson and the rest of them make precious accusations of "racism" against HRC? OR Obama, for that matter? Accusations of racism from a party that is so uniformly white that they don't even do ethnic demographics at the primary polls?

katastic

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @cheerupsylvia: I'm sure I am. LOL. But neither is shocking, right? Moe loves it. I don't.

SinisterRouge

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @rah29: @LinaLamont: Ted Haggard was such an ass to that little boy with the mullet, though! He basically told him the only reason people listened to him preach was because he was young! And that little girl that went around trying to "save" everyone? Ugh. They were all crazy, but I must admit, I have a framed photo of Hillary in my house, LOL.

Political Party Girl

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @tscheese: @Smackdown: @arodriguez.romero: Yeah, there is going to be tons of blame to go around about why the housing market is completely screwed

Not even sure where the blame starts.
Could begin with Greenspan for leaving rates too low for too long...
Which caused the housing markets to boom b/c mortgage rates were low...
Which caused more mortgage lenders to come into the market (some predatory)...
Which caused more & more competition...
Which caused these lenders to give loans to people who couldn't actually afford a house...
Which caused all those crazy mortgage structures to be invented...
Which caused tons of these new mortgages to get packaged into deals by Wall Street...
Which causing them to sell them to investors...
And well, we're living what that caused!)

The government hearings are going to go on FOREVER! And their looking back & finger pointed isn't going to do jack with fixing what's going on now. But the economy is fine right? That's what Bush told us last Friday anyway.

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @KittenFluff feels vommy: The article that Moe referenced in the chatlog above is here: From the WSJ, the week that shook Wall Street. It's a pretty good running account of what happened during the days leading up to this.

The NY Times has a running log of all their articles on the topic. These articles are kinda dense, but this one in particular caught my eye: This article gives a pretty explicit enumeration of the problems that lead Bear to the mess it's in now.

I totally need to geek out more on this topic, but if I don't snag my lunch break now, I'll never get one.

tscheese

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @LinaLamont: It was the picture of Bush that killed me, that they brought out while praying? Amazing stuff.

rah29

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @KittenFluff feels vommy: Some of the experts on this board may have some recommendations for economic sites but the one I really like is [bigpicture.typepad.com] - which I think details financial analysis in a clear, concise layman kind of way.

TriedandTrue

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @marin79: I know the shareholders took a bath...but what about the customers? My impression is that the folks that have their money in Bear are pretty much bailed out. Is my understanding incorrect?

cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???)

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @katastic:
I think it's safe to assume that the only way Obama would ever earn Sinister's respect is for him to drop out of the race, tell everyone to vote for Hillary and disappear. He never even mentions HRC in the entire speech and she interprets it as an all-out attack on the blessed Hillary.

Anyway, Obama is definitely going to lose a lot of white support (even from those who already supported him) because white people prefer happy Negroes. And his attendance at this church makes him look angry and "edgy." Slavery's over! Why are black people still so ANGRY?!?

ShanaElmsford

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @SinisterRouge on Notice!: Your dislike...equally shocking. I think you are in the minority...no pun intended.

cheerupsylvia (Can I Haz...Notice???)

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> I agree with katastic - I felt that was a GREAT speech and was strategic to equate the two commenters and explain why neither are right. A few days back, it was discussed in glowing terms how HRC used strategy to undermine Barry and that was OK because "that's politics". This was a strategic play by Barry -a nd that's OK because it is politics.
Furthermore, SinRou - you bring up Delta and ask what Barry plans on doing for the Delta employees. Did I miss HRC's plan this am while I was watching the speech - because I'm not sure she has released her plan, either. Obama's speech was not meant to cover every hot button issue going on today - just his reverand's comments.

TriedandTrue

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @Parasol: Absolutely not. It's a matter of what you think about it. I'm not an Obama supporter and never have been. It was a lovely speech...but I see the underlying criticism in it. Again, I'm not in any way moved by his speeches, nor am I entrenched blindly by HRC. I support her completely and utterly based on policy. But the whole idea that his speech will heal race relations because his voice is so powerful and wonderful does not in any way budge my opinion of him. I think he's a farce. I think his whole campaign is based on an evangelical movement of support. And I despise it. I hate the relgiosity of it. I hate that he talks as though he's MLK and has done anything other than be a politician that makes him worthy of his speeches meaning a damn thing. He's not a Reverend. He's not a Civil Rights activist. Not even remotely. I'm alright with HRC not winning the nom. I've come to accept that and make my peace with it. The fact that I can't stand him, his arrogance, his misogyny or the movement is something that I will never forgive. I won't vote for McCain. But I sure as shit won't vote for him.

SinisterRouge

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @tscheese: Don't worry about failing as a geek. (Whole other discussion re: women's perspectives etc)
Funny one about Ashley-du-Belmar! Didn't you start to feel a little sick of all of that after the first day anyway? Like, let's move on?

arodriguez.romero speaks java

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @katastic: B-b-but I'll be all emaciated! That's good, right? I'll look so hott in the designer togs we'll have to loot off the dirty post-apocalyptic streets of Manhattan!

tscheese

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> OK, can someone point me in the direction of a site or article that explains in simplistic terms what is going on with our economy? I understand the dollar is very weak, but beyond that I am embarrassingly uninformed. Thanks in advance.

KittenFluff

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @marin79: Hey dude, thanks again for your intelligent commentary here. I was kinda worried that nobody would pick up on the Bear crisis in this thread. :)

Lehman and Goldman ARE bringing cheery news, but investors are hiding and terrified.

I was scrolling back through some of the news from the last few days leading up to this event. On 3/14, the AP said something that absolutely made me queasy over my breakfast. I know this was on Friday and is thus old news, but the consequences are kind of staggering. Check it:

Bear Stearns stock lost nearly half its market value, about $5.7 billion, in a matter of minutes, and pulled the broader market down with it. The Dow Jones industrial average fell nearly 200 points.

That was nontrivial. Can you imagine the public panic if that had been allowed to spiral out and crash into the rest of the financial world? I'm in the financial industry and I try to keep up with these things, but I was probably too busy listening to Alexandra Ashley-du-Belmar-whatever's songs when this news broke. I fail as a geek. :(

The Fed is operating on Nightmare Mode, and I think they're doing everything they can, given the circumstances.

tscheese

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @Parasol: The only person SR is debating her is me, and she's not being condescending or dismissive.

katastic

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @marin79: It means that you think about how money flows and how it doesn't. Thanks for that!

arodriguez.romero speaks java

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @SinisterRouge on Notice!: In terms of Media Outrage, they are much the same.

katastic

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @hypnotic: @Political Party Girl: @SinisterRouge on Notice!: @Moe: @katastic: Lol - thanks! I don't even want to think about what it says about me that I get so fired up about this economic stuff! So sad!

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> Bear Sterns is one of our clients. It's just gloom and doom all day. Bread Lines! Queasy!

arodriguez.romero speaks java

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @SinisterRouge on Notice!: I'm late for work and will have to, you know, work when I get there, but holy crap, SR... Oh, Christ no. Are you so entrenched in your HRC adoration that you can't budge even on rhetoric, that which you find empty and I do not, that has meaning? Rhetoric that no one else will express. I wish I could hang around and lob rhetoric about rhetoric about that speech with you but...what do you do anyway? Geez, you make me mad. Not because I don't admire or for that matter agree with many of the points you make, but you are completely condescending and dismissive. Look, I can take your big political hard dick as well as the next bowlegged cowgirl, but don't spit in my face when you give it to me.

Parasol

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @Political Party Girl: Or how about the eight year old who had to make sure that when she danced it was not "for the sin of the flesh". That creeped me out to a degree that I cannot express.
What I loved was how all the crackpots LOVED Bush and even had framed pictures of him in their house. These are the same people who talked of science as if it was a four lettered word.

LinaLamont

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @katastic: He's not. He's conflating the two. And they are not the same. Wright rests squarely with him. He should have left HRC completely out of it.

SinisterRouge

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @Political Party Girl: Oh that movie scared the living bejeesus out of me (pun intended). My friends and I watched it cuddled on a bed, hugging our pillows in abject terror.

rah29

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> Yeah, unfortunately, whether you hate or love (fine, tolerate) Wall Street, it does have its place in the economy. The Fed is really just in a terrible place right now since from where I'm sitting, I wouldn't have clue what to do about it. They likely made the right choice in supporting Wall Street for the moment (btw, not a permanent bailout, they are charging interest against the money they're loaning and it gets repaid fairly quickly). But even with that there are ramifications for the dollar, inflation, etc.

Unfortunately, the market is just terrified these days & people really do trade on rumors first and get the facts second. A few days ago people would have laughed at the idea that a firm the size of Bear could just be gone in a day. From the financial market perspective, if the Fed hasn't stepped in, it would have been their version of the apocalypse. Ramifications would have been felt worldwide. (Also, just for any of the New Yorkers out there, on top of the other issues, having 14,000 NYC-based Bear employess out of a job in 1 day (no severance, etc.) would have had severe consequences for the housing market & local economy too)

Oh & the market's up b/c Lehman & Goldman came out with earnings that were in line with analyst expectations (it's the reaction to that expectation, not the absolute amount that of earnings that the market cares about). So for this morning anyway, people are feeling a little calmer. But word is that Bear was going to be in the range of what analysts were predicting also & we know what happened to them!

marin79

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @tscheese: Don't throw up! You'll regret it in a few years when we're starving in the streets because the bread lines are too long.

katastic

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @SinisterRouge on Notice!: Right, but he's defending Ferraro. Whether you like it or not, it's a smart move. Equate it with something that happened in Hillary's camp, smooth out the damage. And I think it really is classy of him to defend Ferraro here and defend Hillary from accusations of racism.

katastic

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> The Dow is better than teevee today. I am queasy.

tscheese

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @katastic: He's equating Ferraro with Wright. Incorrectly.

SinisterRouge

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @myrtlebeachbum: I know! I thought Clinton had gotten the endorsement of the Ashley demographic!

Political Party Girl

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @SinisterRouge on Notice!: He's saying neither of them are cranks, that tehy're both expressing justifiable anger.

I wish he would talk a little about misogyny, though.

katastic

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @Lymed: HOT.

katastic

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @DarlingNikki: That movie was scarier than "Nightmare on Elm Street!" Like when that woman who ran the church camp said something along the lines of "We need to emulate the terrorists who educate their children to become suicide bombers from the age of 3. Our children need to be soldiers for Christ. The only difference is we're right."

Political Party Girl

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @SinisterRouge on Notice!: I disagree. Look, he's denouncing all the racism- accusations.:
"We can accept a politics that breeds division, and conflict, and cynicism. We can tackle race only as spectacle - as we did in the OJ trial - or in the wake of tragedy, as we did in the aftermath of Katrina - or as fodder for the nightly news. We can play Reverend Wright's sermons on every channel, every day and talk about them from now until the election, and make the only question in this campaign whether or not the American people think that I somehow believe or sympathize with his most offensive words. We can pounce on some gaffe by a Hillary supporter as evidence that she's playing the race card, or we can speculate on whether white men will all flock to John McCain in the general election regardless of his policies.

We can do that.

But if we do, I can tell you that in the next election, we'll be talking about some other distraction. And then another one. And then another one. And nothing will change. "

And he specificlly says that neither of them are cranks:

"Some will see this as an attempt to justify or excuse comments that are simply inexcusable. I can assure you it is not. I suppose the politically safe thing would be to move on from this episode and just hope that it fades into the woodwork. We can dismiss Reverend Wright as a crank or a demagogue, just as some have dismissed Geraldine Ferraro, in the aftermath of her recent statements, as harboring some deep-seated racial bias.

But race is an issue that I believe this nation cannot afford to ignore right now. We would be making the same mistake that Reverend Wright made in his offending sermons about America - to simplify and stereotype and amplify the negative to the point that it distorts reality."

katastic

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @Lymed:aaahhh makes sense.

amoureuse is a second class citizen

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> Will that speech stop the bleeding? Not sure, but I don't think anything will prevent him from getting the nomination.

But were I a betting man, I'd probably have my money on McCain.

rsr26

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @arodriguez.romero: I KNOW, right!? I just checked your AMNY article and...gawd. I work in Midtown. Let us hope.

The rally is nice, but the fluctuations of 200+/- points lately on the Dow is enough to make anyone seasick.

tscheese

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @amoureuse is here because of Ashley!: CNN totally <3 a primary that they see as never ending.

Lymed

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> Also, anybody hear lately about more and more high finance jobs going to London? All this is very bad news for New York and its satellites.

arodriguez.romero speaks java

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> @Political Party Girl: I think Spitzer's more of the Prada sandals kind of guy.

Lymed

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> Ever seen Jesus Camp?! What about Bush's batshit fundie spiritual adviser?! *Sigh*

DarlingNikki

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> WOW CNN totally <3 Obama.

amoureuse is a second class citizen

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]> [www.amny.com],0,448143.story Jebus it's bleak news. Let's hope Citi, Lehman, and Merrill weather the storm without bailouts. The market is up a little, some rebound effect.

arodriguez.romero speaks java

]]> <![CDATA[What, You Assumed The Blind Guy Would Be A Faithful Husband? Did None Of You See <i>Ray</i>?]]>