Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?" - Jezebel Comments

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

krismry — Sun, 16 Mar 2008 18:23:30 EDT

@venessa: remember for sure, good point. also have utmost reverence for 'i wannabe your dog,' especially in 'lock stock...'

krismry

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

venessa — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 22:35:33 EDT

Has everyone forgotten Iggy?

venessa

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

lafleur — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 07:20:50 EDT

@mwynn13:

King's Rd?? That's hysterical! Dead-center of Chelsea and home of the Sloane Rangers. I love Dame Westwood

lafleur

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

krismry — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 01:45:47 EDT

@nerdsausage ate björk's dingo:yes. malcolm for sure is 'no fun, ever get the feeling you've been cheated?' and bow wow wow was too good to be treated as his little puppets. seems a hazard for uber rich, even v. westwood, to turn tory, sadly enough.
@Tiny-Moves: probably so right.

krismry

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

Tiny-Moves — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 00:36:56 EDT

EEEE! Fun. It's cool jezzies know what's up in this conversation. One thing: It seems Viv is a bad ass human, interesting, iconic, etc, but prolly a tyrant/bitch of a Grandma! Like, 10 y.o. girlie is over it.

Tiny-Moves

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

nerdsausage is a busysausage — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 22:19:10 EDT

@krismry: there's a huge difference between Situationism in '68 and Situationism in Malcolm McLaren's head, and an even further gap between that and anything that Vivienne Westwood did with it. I've read probably way too much about McLaren, and the thing that comes through loud and clear is what a cave-troll misogynist Tory the dude always has been, all the while thinking he's some kind of agent provacateur. I mean, look up what he tried to do with Bow Wow Wow -- it's sickeningly sexist. He was trying to start a schoolgirl porn magazine, all the while pitching it as some sort of delightfully anarchic punk thing! Fortunately, he's always been disastrously bad at reading people and nearly got himself thrown in jail for that one, and Annabella Lwin was a smart girl and told him to get stuffed. The first three chapters of "Rip It Up And Start Again" by Simon Reynolds spend a bunch of time talking about Malcolm and his crimes.

Westwood has always been way more of an intuitive designer than the more intellectual Situationists, and yeah, you're right, the past is always present in her designs, which is part of what makes them so sexy / intriguing / creepy. Sex (the boutique) would have gone nowhere without that whiff of Victorian repression to it. Which is also probably why her stuff is so insanely popular in the Harajuku street scene -- they're all still totally obsessed with Victoriana, and are way into repression.

nerdsausage is a busysausage

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

krismry — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:44:04 EDT

@trikitixa: we on same page, i nearly mentioned marinetti 1909 'we shall sing of the love of danger, the habit of energy and boldness...' but refrained for similar reason. ha!
is good that nicolas ghesquiere can delve into archives at balenciaga and weirdos can emulate the art heretics of past treasure troves. past is present even at westwood. and i be sure to find that book, ever so appreciate the clue.

krismry

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

trikitixa — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:30:24 EDT

@krismry:
I LOVE that book. After learning more about Futurism, it's weird to me Marcus gives them little credit. I forgot to mention those Italian freaks, who initiated the first art-inspired men's fashion. (and before anyone comes at me with the 'but they were fascists' thing, read Gunter Berghaus' "The Genesis of Futurism")
I'll shut up now.

trikitixa

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

krismry — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:13:57 EDT

@trikitixa: art movements as ground for clothes inspiration, yes!
glad to be reminded of tristan tzara and to find egon schiele today.
alas, can't find erwin olsen but i think i know what
you mean about 1910 weirdos fashions...
grail marcus in 'lipstick traces' tried tracing the music back and saw 'the characters changing into each other's clothes until i gave up
trying to make them hold still' ~!~

@youtalkwaytoomuch: style is a symbol of substance, most fun to look back and find the art influences. westwood is artist first for sure.

krismry

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

LadyvonSnarkyPants — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:26:27 EDT

Punk or not, the woman can design and cut clothes. The tailoring on her couture stuff is mind blowing. She is truly teh awesome.

LadyvonSnarkyPants

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

youtalkwaytoomuch — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:21:15 EDT

I'm confused. So many claim to be the creator of the "punk" look. I've heard it was Richard Hell. Who the Sex Pistol's manager claims inspired the look. Who in turn deny it. Cora seems sweet. I'll take substance over fashion any day.

youtalkwaytoomuch

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

amowls — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:04:07 EDT

Woman is crazy and I respect her but there is not one collection of hers that I can get behind. Case in point: She hates jeans. I love jeans.

amowls

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

trikitixa — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:39:36 EDT

@briardahl:
Funny. My friend was in an Ants-inspired band and was able to meet Marco; every time he talked about it he got all excited and starry-eyed. I never knew who the fuck he was talking about.
@krismry:
I love that. Or does it all go back to art movements: the costumes from dada/expressionist theatre (the connection to Situationism being Lettrism) from that time really reminds me of typically 'punk' fashion. Ever seen a picture of Egon Schiele's friend Erwin Osen? He looks like a member of the Weirdos, only it was, you know, 1910.

trikitixa

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

thatsrealbutter — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:26:03 EDT

I love her shoes. The bag boots, the rocking horse platforms, the weird claw footed heels. Also, Sara Stockbridge was one of the best models ever!

thatsrealbutter

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

ineffable.me — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:02:22 EDT

@brokestephenswoman: ew dont blame such ignorance on fashion design majors, that person clearly doent know what theyre talking bout.

ineffable.me

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

brokestephenswoman — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:57:19 EDT

last night I made the mistake of talking fashion with a fashion design major. I mentioned that I liked Vivian Westwood's collection for fall (five-year olds+ paint+ purses= awesome) and she said "Vivian doesn't make clothes, she makes concepts and just likes to shock people. I honestly don't know how she stays in business".

I really, really, really wanted to slap her.
but I didnt.

brokestephenswoman

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

krismry — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:43:15 EDT

@nerdsausage: this is technical!
but isn't there a difference between punk street style in the situationist mode and the offshoot of artskool fashion that sort of became more new wave? great comment NSausage, i need to go to FIT and study more.

krismry

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

bigleggedwoman — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:42:19 EDT

@trikitixa: Gonna have to go ahead and agree (now "Ant People" is playing on my own personal soundtrack).

bigleggedwoman

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

Jan74 — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:16:11 EDT

@BicSharpie:

You are mistaken, as clearly, Green Day did.

and also, I laughed for real at your comment.

Jan74

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

crescentia07 — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:59:21 EDT

If she invented punk than I have a bridge in San Francisco I would be willing to sell to you.

crescentia07

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

briardahl — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:57:20 EDT

@trikitixa: Oh, I know, but you have to give it up for the, umm, model, so to speak. (Possibly even more credit to Marco Pirroni for helping ensure that it sounded good.)

briardahl

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

trikitixa — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:50:49 EDT

@briardahl:
Mr. Ant got his hyper-fruitiness from Ms. Viv:
[www.fashion-era.com]

trikitixa

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

trikitixa — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:47:32 EDT

@nerdsausage:
"Hyper-fruity" is officially going into my vocabulary rotation.
And thanks for getting Adam Ant stuck in my head.

trikitixa

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

briardahl — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:38:59 EDT

@nerdsausage: Hey, when it comes to "hyper-fruity pirate style," let us not fail to give Adam Ant his due here

briardahl

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

watereatsrock — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:31:23 EDT

She is amazing... She had a symposium at my school in which she told us rap music was boring and conservative, and that our government sucked....

watereatsrock

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

ineffable.me — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:21:10 EDT

@eraserheadpixies (now representing norwegian xanax and JESUS!1!@#!): @Cam/ron: pshh, whatever dudes, im gonna go to hot topic now so i can keep rebelling against you NORMALS!

ineffable.me

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

nerdsausage is a busysausage — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:18:57 EDT

The most mindbending thing about V Westwood is how much of her expensive couture stuff ends up on teenage Japanese dudes in Harajuku. Also, how for a while 2002-2005 her handbags were de rigeur amongst the elegant gothic lolita set.

She may have been the fashion arm of Malcolm McLaren's cod-Situationist headgame (you know, English punk), but I went to the Westwood show that was touring around last year, and everyone who loved Johnny Depp in Pirates of the Caribbean owes her for popularizing that hyper-fruity pirate style back in the 80s (the "Worlds End" lines). And her hyper-exaggerated bustle / artificial-butt stuff is just mind-blowing. They're all organic products of a mind that really just could not give a fuck less what anybody else thinks.

She can be a reactionary blowhard, but I love her style.

nerdsausage is a busysausage

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

bigleggedwoman — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:13:27 EDT

@mwynn13: Thanks for the shout out to Verlaine & Hell and company.

She kind of interpreted their street movement but they do deserve credit for their music and individuality.

bigleggedwoman

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

mycatsnores — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:10:52 EDT

Meh. She's a Tory now.

mycatsnores

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

FireSeason — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:07:11 EDT

Actually I like the fact that I can now blame her for that completely unfortunate mohawk I had at age sixteen.

FireSeason

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

FireSeason — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:04:07 EDT

@Cam/ron: Bwhahahaha!

FireSeason

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

Cam/ron — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:03:35 EDT

@FireSeason: God forbid that she attends a Straight Edge show.

@ineffable.me l0v3s unicorns!1!!1!: No, Avril Lavigne invented punk.

Cam/ron

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

TeenageGangDeb — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:02:47 EDT

Bleh, I hate debating punk. Even in the sense of the '77 "punk movement" ... I think it's kind of dumb how all the dooz at ROLLING STONE or some crap have theorized that there was a "movement" that managed to include The Talking Heads AND The Buzzcocks, as if any of those bands had anything in common at all. There were a bunch of new bands in the late 70s that didn't suck and/or sound like Emerson, Lake & Palmer or Zeppelin. And some people call that "punk".

It means different things to different people. And furthermore, it's not even that important because anyone who won't listen to a band based on the idea that it's "not punk enough" isn't much of a music fan to begin with.

As for Vivienne Westwood ... I like that she is more willing to use models of color than other designers, but to me she has always been Queen of the Posers.

TeenageGangDeb

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

eraserheadpixies (now representing norwegian xanax and JESUS!1!@#!) — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:01:08 EDT

@BicSharpie: Comment stealer! Jinx.

eraserheadpixies (now representing norwegian xanax and JESUS!1!@#!)

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

eraserheadpixies (now representing norwegian xanax and JESUS!1!@#!) — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:00:10 EDT

@ineffable.me l0v3s unicorns!1!!1!: What the hell are you talking about? Um, punk was totally, like, the awesome love child of Blink 182 and Simple Plan!!1!1 You sound totally uninformed and, like, not aware or something, you know.

eraserheadpixies (now representing norwegian xanax and JESUS!1!@#!)

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

Drinky O'Drunkerton — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:58:24 EDT

@dashenbka: YES! With her adorable conservative granddaughter, as played by a tow-headed young actress whose first name is probably Abigail, and for whatever reason is American so there can be jokes about lifts and flats.

Drinky O'Drunkerton

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

BicSharpie — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:56:55 EDT

I thought Blink 182 invented punk. What gives?

BicSharpie

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

FireSeason — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:52:34 EDT

@briardahl:As an old punk from the 80's and married to a old punk, it seems weird that people refer selling the look. We didnt have Hot Topic back in the day. Thats right kittens, we HAD to rip our own t-shirts, fishnets, etc. And dont even get me started on the Aquanet...but I do get a kick out of what she must have thought about Henry Rollins, Keith Morris and the like....rubbish

FireSeason

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

pssshwhatever — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:52:28 EDT

Oh pish tosh, you people, she's awesome.

pssshwhatever

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

ineffable.me — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:47:50 EDT

@Cam/ron: omg what about GOOD CHARLOTTE?!?! they're punk right? i thought they were the ones that started it all!

ineffable.me

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

eraserheadpixies (now representing norwegian xanax and JESUS!1!@#!) — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:47:33 EDT

Wouldn't punk have probably stayed an unknown subculture longer if it wasn't for the clothing? Obvs. clothing doesn't define the movement or whatever, the ideas and sometimes the music do. It also depends, as some people probably really liked what punk was about ( and not just the part about looking like an outcast), but then others probably just did it to be trendy. And didn't Johnny Rotten even say something like, "Now everyone is just wearing a punk uniform", or something when the movement got more mainstream? I can't remember the exact quote.

eraserheadpixies (now representing norwegian xanax and JESUS!1!@#!)

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

ineffable.me — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:47:06 EDT

@beastybeatsy: yeah, exactly.

ineffable.me

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

Cam/ron — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:41:42 EDT

@briardahl: Indded "Buffalo Girls" and "Do You Like Scratchin'?" are brilliant despite Malcolm's con jobs.

Cam/ron

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

dashenbka — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:41:27 EDT

you know what would be a great sitcom (reality show?)

Vivienne Westwood moves to Connecticut

dashenbka

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

briardahl — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:39:48 EDT

@Cam/ron: But they're both such sympathetic cons! I mean, they both did a sort of P.T. Barnum huckster job with punk, which isn't substantially different from men in suits doing market research and capitalizing on a trend -- but they were doing it in a more interesting phase, in a more interesting way, and with some interest in the aesthetics of it. Plus, you know, "Buffalo Girls" and whatnot.

briardahl

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

beastybeatsy — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:31:22 EDT

@ineffable.me l0v3s unicorns!1!!1!: I'm pretty sure the bands &tc had something to do with it...

beastybeatsy

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

Eeva — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:31:06 EDT

She wore no knickers when she met the Queen.

That sounds like a line from a Pulp song, and yet it is both true and amazing.

Eeva

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

b3xx0r — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:31:02 EDT

@crushdmb & @LinaLamont: my bad...i'm so glad it's friday, i think my eyes are about to fall out. she's still a cunt then...and i'm agreeing with her granddaughter now. where does that put me?

b3xx0r

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

Boogie drinks a lot on Sunday SeriousDay — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:29:24 EDT

... She said to me, "It's more important if people are nice people than what they wear." I said, "Rubbish."

hmmm i agree. its my new motto. forget being nice. nice guys/gals finish last right?

Boogie drinks a lot on Sunday SeriousDay

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

andromache — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:28:30 EDT

I'm pretty sure that punk rock had something to do with "inventing" the punk movement. Or maybe it was the whole uhh counterculture movement fueled by the punks themselves? Overly educated hypotheses aside, the lady's pretty awesome, and I give her tons of credit for sticking to her guns.

andromache

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

Cam/ron — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:26:47 EDT

@PhoneticLorin: I always got a kick of how Malcolm prononuced the word, "fash-UN" in intevriews. Anyhow, the bloke is a con man (speaking as a fan of the first two Public Image Lt. albums).

Cam/ron

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

LinaLamont — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:26:30 EDT

@b3xx0r: Actually it was her granddaughter who said that. To which she replied "rubbish".

LinaLamont

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

crushdmb — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:24:42 EDT

@b3xx0r: Re-read it. Her daughter actually said that and in response, Westwood said, "Oh, rubbish."

crushdmb

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

Le Kangourou de Kataroo bites her thumb in your general direction — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:24:36 EDT

Re: sympathizing with preschoolers. Yesterday while doing my kidzoids laundry and realizing how little they really are (seriously... kids clothes are LITTLE), it hit me that as much as grownups harp on how easy childhood was, it really is a confusing time. You're still learning EVERYTHING, and 80% of the time when you ask why to understand, the adults (myself included) reply "Because I said so." Nope, being an adult is confusing, but at least some things make more sense.

Le Kangourou de Kataroo bites her thumb in your general direction

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

AGreenEyeDevil — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:23:04 EDT

At 66 do whatever the fuck you want, maybe with the exception of glow in the dark orange/red hair.

AGreenEyeDevil

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

ilikenoise — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:22:14 EDT

Has anyone seen that old Newsnight report from the 80s when the reporter goes in to her shop and tries on the punk gear? Imagine if you will Prince Charles in bondage trousers and a string vest.

Also I just want to say when I was nine... Anarchy in the UK was my favourite song. Iwas such a quiet child as well.

ilikenoise

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

PhoneticLorin — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:19:06 EDT

Malcolm McLaren is possibly the sexiest name ever.
Like Remington Benz, or something else delightfully made-up!

PhoneticLorin

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

b3xx0r — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:18:46 EDT

"It's more important if people are nice people than what they wear."
after years of thinking this woman was a total cunt from reading all those books about the punk movement, i have just regained the utmost respect for her. i wish her statement was true though...or that more people cared about that crap.

b3xx0r

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

briardahl — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:18:32 EDT

@Bathsheba: That comment leads me to wonder, for the first time, what Vivienne thought of American hardcore -- only I doubt she much noticed it.

To get even more pedantic about the post: Westwood's on a pretty fuzzy line between "creating punk-as-fashion" and "being first in the market to sell punk fashion, as noticed on others." Which is part of why she can say "rip your own shirt" and sell one anyway -- she's been offhandedly selling what's basically a street-bred style for 30 years, and (rightly) has never much bothered herself about it.

briardahl

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

Archetype — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:18:02 EDT

@Cam/ron: Heh.

Archetype

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

ineffable.me — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:17:57 EDT

@Cam/ron: @hatepaperdoll: @beastybeatsy: Yeah I know about SEX and all of that, i just thought "single-handedly creating punk" was misleading.

ineffable.me

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

Cam/ron — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:17:28 EDT

@SmoothLeather: I disagree - punk actually dates further back and has evolved far beyond the Punk (TM) image sold by McLaren and the Sex Pistols. But I'd rather save this debate for Idolator not Jezebel.

Cam/ron

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

Her_royal_Highness — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:16:39 EDT

I love her vintage stuff.

Her_royal_Highness

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

beastybeatsy — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:16:13 EDT

@ineffable.me l0v3s unicorns!1!!1!: The iconic shop where all punk-folk used to meet and greet and buy safety-pins then.

Westwood is teh awesome. That is all.

beastybeatsy

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

mwynn13 — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:15:02 EDT

She created the whole punk look- spiky hair, bondage pants, stuff ripped and pinned (actually, Tom Verlaine and Richard Hell did that first, but she carried it to an extreme), shredded unfinished edges, bras as outerwear. She was the first one to take bondage gear out of the dungeon, and we're talking about 1974, way pre-punk. She had a store on Kings' Road called Sex that was all corsetry, cuffs, black vinyl catsuits, really radical for its time.

mwynn13

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

hatepaperdoll — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:14:36 EDT

@ineffable.me l0v3s unicorns!1!!1!: But even Malcom credits her with introducing him to the idea of punk, he says it was the people who were hanging aroung his wife's shop who inspired him, and that's how he met the Sex Pistols. (I read a book! Good for me!)

hatepaperdoll

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

SmoothLeather — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:13:58 EDT

@Cam/ron: Punk has only really been around for 30+ years...I would argue that the entire (sub)culture has been based on these stereotypes and cliches, masking itself as a "rebellion".

SmoothLeather

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

hoodienerd — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:13:48 EDT

man. i wish i used the word "rubbish" in everyday conversation

hoodienerd

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

layladylan — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:12:21 EDT

First she says "it's only ideas that are subversive in the end," regarding the torn T-shirts, but then goes on to criticize her jeans-wearing granddaughter for preferring substance over style. Seems rather self-contradictory.

layladylan

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

brookidy — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:12:01 EDT

Sweet Lord she is effing awesome. I love people who don't have filters on their mouths.

brookidy

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

Bathsheba — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:11:27 EDT

Love her. She's so hardcore.

Bathsheba

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

bananaballs — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:11:26 EDT

i love how her daughter wants to be all golden rule-y, and she's all PFFT.

bananaballs

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

Cam/ron — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:10:47 EDT

@ineffable.me l0v3s unicorns!1!!1!: I'd say that she and Malcolm created most of the stereotypes and cliches that have cursed punk for 30+ years.

Cam/ron

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

Archetype — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:10:09 EDT

I do all these shows in Paris [where he lives] but I don't think of inviting him even. I think he's been too bad to me. Finally I decided he wasn't worth seeing. Sorry, I shouldn't say it in that way, but I don't expect he'll mind.

Love her for that. It's a fine thing when you realize you don't have to interact with people based on history or feelings of obligation.

Archetype

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

JessicaLovejoy: I think God put you here to test *my* faith, dude. — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:09:52 EDT

I don't agree with that hair color, but I think she would rightly not give a shit.

JessicaLovejoy: I think God put you here to test *my* faith, dude.

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

nodoubt9203 [in cali we sez besh plz!] — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:08:58 EDT

i love red hair.

nodoubt9203 [in cali we sez besh plz!]

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

asketchymess — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:08:43 EDT

That looks like a photo of Kiki Dunst from the year 2050.

asketchymess

Formerly Punk & Currently Quirky Vivienne Westwood: "Why Don't People Tear Their Own Clothes?"

ineffable.me — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:06:48 EDT

I don't know that she "single-handedly created punk" seeing as how her husband was more involved in that. Unless you meant punk-style (oxymoron!) which would probably be ok.

ineffable.me