This is dismissive because it accuses "young girls" who say they have not experienced sexism "a little bit stupid". It quite literally dismisses the opinions or experiences of those who disagree with you. It cuts off the possibility of further dialogue because it's already convinced it's right. It's got an answer for everything.

2. Any fool who deems to complain that black men have it better than white woman is....what's the word....retarded.

This isn't self-explanatory? Calling anybody who disagrees with you a "fool" and "retarded" doesn't even constitute an argument. It's just douchebaggery. And not even eloquent douchebaggery, which might be slightly more tolerable. At least, eloquence might have brought your comments to the level of something we could discuss.

bruitdautrui

LadyMadonna

saritah

Anyways, I'm staunchly feminist and I voted Obama. A friend of mine, not exactly a feminist, voted for Clinton just because she's a woman. That some feminists can't see that women are fully capable of being misogynists and that just because you're a woman in power doesn't make you necessarily better for the cause, blows my mind. The sexism in those assumptions is so apparent to me.

I"m not saying there are no reasons to vote for Clinton. There were just more reasons for ME to vote for Obama. By the way, my old-fogey parents are more in love with Obama than I am. And my mom, who grew up in the heyday of second-wave feminism has never called herself a feminist. I, on the other hand, had a subscription to Ms. when I was 12. So yeah, I second all the people who are tired of these generalizations. I think that's what's so refreshing about Obama. He really does seem to want to rise above that and get at the humanity of people.

miss anthrope

eatsshootsleaves

MilointheMeadow

eatsshootsleaves

SinisterRouge

Persons to whom the feminist fight is among the dominant issues in their sphere are voting for Hillary Clinton by an overwhelming percentage and those to whom race is one of the most important factors are voting for Barack Obama. Neither reason is invalid or less than the other because these are the issues which are driving those individual votes.

I think it's terrific that so many young women feel that sexism is passé and I hope that large numbers of young African-Americans feel the same way about racism, but that's a little hard to measure via exit polls because the youth vote is so tied to one candidate, you can't really tell if they are exercising their right because of their age or their race to any degree, plus thankfully racism and sexism is not everyone's dominant issue.

What I do find disturbing is that so many (younger) people see the Democratic candidates as an either/or proposition. Sure, you either vote for one or the other, but neither of them are evil or perfect: voting for the woman or the African-American is neither wrong nor right. Everyone arrives at their choice from their own perspective and they make their selection based on what's important to them.

Right now, though I haven't ran the numbers since the weekend before Ohio and Texas, but at that time, there was less than a 2.6% difference between the vote totals for each candidate and large numbers of people who have voted for the "other" candidate can't all be wrong. Instead, they simply made a different choice.

Magister

I still can't believe that people buy into this McCain maverick crap. Maybe it's because the really nutty Republicans refer to him as a liberal because, for a little while, he was against torture (before he was for it). Wow, stood up against torture before caving to the Bushies! What a maverick, eh?

That_little_attention_whore

That_little_attention_whore

That_little_attention_whore

I should also point out, again, that I'm a guy. Not that this has any particular significance to anything, but it just seems right, to mention it.

As for the topic, I don't see a problem in women (or men) supporting Clinton, with her gender in mind. It's not as if gender is their sole motivator. In fact, I find it kind of offensive that anyone would imply that women are voting for Clinton ONLY because she's a woman. If that's true, it follows that Clinton-supporters would also vote for the likes of Ann Coulter, Condoleezza Rice, or Bay Buchanan! Does anyone really believe that?

OTOH, if, as has been said over and over, their is very little difference between the policies of Clinton and Obama, why wouldn't someone who considers themselves a Feminist, vote for her. Sadly, this election could be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to break the biggest glass ceiling in the country. I don't know that women can afford to let that slip away.

As to the issue of whether sexism is still a real problem in our society, I have a hard time believing that anyone, even fleetingly, questions that. If people aren't able to see that sexism is there, it's because we have gotten so used to it that we just don't notice it, anymore.

Just my two cents, but I don't believe we will truly have beaten sexism until a woman running for office can exhibit the same attributes as a man running for office and those attributes are not seen as a positive for him and a negative form her.

I'm afraid we have a long way to go...

IBinMN

Now I live in Brooklyn and work in a field that many people consider to be male-dominated...but every job I've had (and I freelanced for a year so its a good number) has had a really high percentage of strong female role models. I've never felt that I havent gotten a job, a higher wage, a lower or higher grade, whatever it is, ever, because I was born with a vagina. I suppose I'm just one of those girls who went through academia and think the whole world is like that (I think there was a post on hat at some point.)

I guess I get the catcalls while Im walking to the subway, but I;ve always attributed that to the fact that I live in a 'hood filled with creepy dudes, not an inherent plot to make females feel uncomfortable. Or maybe thats what sexism is and I've totally missed the point? I dont know. But this is my experience and how I've come to see things. Is that really so absurd?

Auffed_By_Heidi

alabamaday

Choosing a presidential candidate based solely on her gender undermines the entire feminist movement. It implies I am nothing more than my sex. And to hear that attitude expressed by a leader of the feminist establishment? Really? Talk about a version of the colonial mentality.

alabamaday

@noasalira: Michelle rubs me the wrong way. Sometimes I'm impressed that she speaks her mind, other times I just think she's condescending.

marin79

But what do I know, I'm just another minority.

ShoplifterOfTheWorld

That's a woman I'd support!

noasalira

tybyla

noasalira

dvs

Political Party Girl

According to your logic, women should automatically support HRC because:
1) She is more well known than Obama and has established her roots in Washington.
2) She has been "politely" waiting in the background building up her experience in the Senate and it is her turn.
3) Only a female president will truly address sexism, without lumping it in together with all those other pesky "isms".
4) She is "overqualified" because she was married to a President and had an active role as First lady.

Condescending much?

1) It is true, Obama came out of nowhere and rocked a lot of peoples' socks. And go figure, he actually put a face to all of those "articulate [and intelligent, score!] Black men" that I interact with everyday. And your point is? I wasn't aware that you had to be on the national scene for a certain period of time to qualify as President. I also wasn't aware that if you are an "articulate Black man" that can be counted against you. And I certainly didn't know that if you try to represent a different kind of politics and talk about hope and unity (simple but recycled political themes), you can "bamboozle" a whole bunch of "silly" White folks into voting for you, so they can assuage their own white guilt. I'm not White, but if I was, I would be offended that you think so little of my intellect that you make ridiculously broad characterizations.

2) The Presidency is not a contest or a legacy. There is no "patient" waiting in line. Anybody who feels that they are qualified, and have the stomach to do the job, should "man up" for a lack of a better phrase. And once that brave candidate "mans up," it is up to the voters to decide who they want to run this country. The constitution says "we the people." The presidency is about people, not a singular person. The minute that we let people think that there is some sort of entitlement or direct path to THE most powerful position in the world, is when we diminish the integrity of the position (to the extent we haven't done so already).

3) Based on your reasoning about female presidents and "sexism," because HRC is white, she will be less likely to seriously deal with racism, therefore, Blacks shouldn't vote for her. Oh, and HRC is 60. Which means she is disconnected to younger voters and doesn't really understand their needs, so I guess they should thumb their nose at her too. Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?

4) It is beyond dispute that HRC is extremely, "articulate," intelligent, and competent. She has plenty of diverse experiences in her background that she can pull from to sell her case as to why she should be the Dem candidate. But the way that she has conducted her campaign has turned me completely OFF. This is a point where we can agree to disagree, but I don't think that you are qualified to be President just because you were First Lady. Yes, it is clear, that she was one of the most active First Ladies in our history. But some of the things that she holds up as her "experience," don't pass muster with me, or several people who were involved for that matter. Also, I defended her when last summer people were saying that she was too polarizing to unite the country. I really didn't think that was a fair characterization. Now, I feel like I am seeing everything in a new light. I don't completely agree with all of the HRC criticism, but the things that she has said and done during the past couple of months have made me extremely uncomfortable. And the sad part is, she doesn't need to go negative or inflate her record!!!! She is fabulous all on her own. But I think a good way to judge a person's character is how they react when their back is up against the wall, and they are painted in a corner. In my book, HRC hasn't passed the test.

And one more thing, I really haven't experienced sexism either, being a young whippersnapper myself (but I also think that the words sexist, racist, sexism, and racism are thrown around WAY too much). But I was raised by strong and proud women. And I know that those women would be extremely disappointed if I compromised my political beliefs because of group think or identity politics. Go figure. It was because of my mother's feminism that I feel comfortable exercising my beliefs and I have chosen to do just that.

lawchic22

[www.washingtonmonthly.com]

Pleasure

Plus, believe what you want about Hillary (despite much of it may just be assumed & not backed up with any evidence), but at the end of the day, she's FAR better than the scary Republican machine. I mean, just think about the issues you've had with the Bush admin (you've named the war, Patriot Act, etc). Now imagine 4 more years of those people in power. B/c a vote for McCain is really a vote for that political machine that has DESTROYED our country.

marin79

McCain is MORE hawkish than Bush. So yeah, that's a comfort.

SinisterRouge

As for HRC, what she said was that some lobbyists represent the right interests. And I agree. For example, we have a women's right lobby that includes, NOW, Planned Parenthood and various other women's issues groups. Same for other types of lobbyists, some corporate. You understand that not all lobbyists are evil right? That there's a big difference between the tobacco lobby and the Planned Parenthood one.

So while you say McCain will clean up Washington more than HRC, I'm just letting you know...the old man is chock full of mud...under every fingernail and in every wrinkle. He hearts lobbyists. And corporations. Especially the tobacco, gas, oil and generally Republican ones.

SinisterRouge

But seriously, we all vote on a combination of policies & how these candidates appeal to us in terms of our different life experiences. I can understand 100% why electing an African American would be an inspiration to you & your family. But I also can understand why election a woman would be an inspiration to me & most of my family (we're technically divided on Obama/Hillary!)

I'm just so tired of debating sexism vs. feminism. We all just need to accept that both issues are a unfortunate reality of our world & there just isn't a debate over which is worse since both are fucking terrible. A comparison just is immaterial.

marin79

but by the way, i feel the same about clinton - i think that her basic beliefs are good - but that she's so cynical and so beholden to certain interests will prevent her from ever executing them.

anyway, i've been online for 3 hours!!!!!!!! this is the first time i get into an online debate. thanks all of you (well almost all) for a good conversation. i certainly have a lot to think about.

Pleasure

*btw, I forgot to tell you that he's mine too! :)

marin79

seriously. i actually told that to a few people. the funny thing is, it happened near a (white) friend of mine who was really shocked by people's behaiour to me...

Pleasure

Republicans in the White House = more power to Corporate America. It's as simple as that, even if you personally like McCain.

marin79

look, i used to love and respect the clintons too. it's only in the last few years, with more experience in the corporate world (that convinced me to pursue a career in environmental food policy - the exact opposite) that i realised how deep their ties run, how deeply they are impliccated in our current credit crisis, in our entire corrupt corporate culture (and i still think i'm a capitalist- i'm all for efficiency - but there need to be some controls).

I can understand, for example, if you told me that you think clinton is more pro women, or pro healht care, than mccain. those are obviously true. But i really think that when it comes to cleaning up washington mccain has a better record...

again, i think both mccain and clinton are unrepresentative of their respective parties.

Pleasure

And I agree with what you said in your 9:06 post. *sigh* I just have to sit back and relax a bit, 'cuz I think that overall, the only reason people are getting so heated about the Democratic end of this race is because we know that it's time for a change, and sadly, there are two strong candidates going for the gusto this year.

I think at this point everyone knows who I support, but honestly, I think *gasp* HRC has some good ideas and intent, but I just am convinced it's time for new blood in Washington.

But I also make sure to keep on top of what Jezzies have to say about the election, because I know that this site tends to have some highly educated and opinionated readers who teach me something new each day.

So even tho we Jezzies may fuss and fight, I'm glad we all have SOME sort of position to support. That's a feminista blessing, for sure.

And with that, I am off to a late dinner.

astralgirl01

Miss Smith Drank Your Vodka

Pleasure

SinisterRouge

Anyway, one of the many flights she made to Iraq had the Secretary General of the UN as a passenger. And yeah, he mistook her for a FLIGHT ATTENDANT! She said his face was just shocked when she informed him she was actually the pilot. Fortunately, the gal has a great sense of humor & thought it was hilarious! But still...

marin79

SinisterRouge

Also, SinisterRouge on Notice! My point wasn't that that mccain isn't objectionable, because he is. He's pretty nasty, I know. But... it is my personal opinion , after working in some large corps, that the single biggest negative factor in american politics, affecting national security, social justice, environment, civil liberties and public health is the undue influence of corporations. And yes, on that issue I think clinton has even less credibility than mccain. it's a simplistic explanation, but i'm tired...

Pleasure

Sometimes the look on their faces is worth the initial snuff.

Actually, no - it's not. But it's good to see the reaction on their faces as they realize their mistake.

You can kinda see the registration on their faces (not all of them, but alot of the older Southern bajillionaires we have come) - greeted minority, forgot to greet woman. Doh!

Miss Smith Drank Your Vodka

marin79

Personally, I've been mocked & outright insulted for my perspective here at times, but what can you do? Leaving or avoiding these posts is certainly an option. But learning to just dismiss those comments is another. I've chosen the latter since I enjoy these political conversations & decided to just accept the bad with the good. If you decide to stick around, developing a thick skin & learning to bite back is a must! Obviously your call, but I personally think that differing opinions are a good thing - just be prepared to back it up!

And once you get used to the general tone & intense responses, I think you'll find that a personal respect develops btwn many Obama & Hillary supporters overtime. Even though I'm one of those strident Hillary people, I follow tons of Obama people on this blog since lots have interesting perspectives on the issues & it helps expose me to the reasons why I'll be happy to support Obama if he's the nom. Plus, when people discuss the actual ISSUES instead of the sexism/racism fight or the "Hillary's evil"/"No she's not" conversation, you'll find a lot of middle ground. And hopefully you'll be able to see that & it'll help you vote Dem in Nov even if your candidate isn't the winner.

(And sorry for the long & completely off-topic response!)

marin79

Political Party Girl

SinisterRouge

Look at actual votes and records. HRC and Obama are consistently alike. They both agree to that point. The AUMF vote is a different matter since Obama wasn't in the Senate at the time and HRC voted yes. We all know that. However, your other arguments are not sounds. McCain is one of the most objectionable Republicans. Personally, I find all of them objectionable, but he's the worst kind. Because he is labeled as different when in fact, he is not. Did you know that lobbyists currently run his campaign? For free? Did you know that he was embroiled in lobbying scandal a few years back? Did you know he attempted to revamp his image in order to come off as a "Maverick?" Did you know he consistently votes against a woman's right to choose and funding for sex education? Did you know he wants to be in Iraq for 100 years? Did you know that after Bush called his daughter his illegitimate Black child in order to get racist White Republicans to not vote for him in SC that he went on to embrace that man and ask for his endorsement? Did you know that he's a right-wing lunatic and always has been? So please, look into it. And if you find McCain not objectionable, you're not seeing McCain.

SinisterRouge

Try telling that to my father, who was born Black & dirt poor in Arkansas, left school at 15 so he could join the military so he could help feed all of his brothers and sisters, was one of the first Black graduates of the Air Force Academy, and became a successful businessman with an equally smart and successful wife (shout out to my mom!).

This is the same man that was often confused for "help" at my (private) school's functions because he was dressed nicely in a suit (and no, the offending parents never ever apologized), was pulled over at every opportunity known to man by the KCMO police because they just couldn't believe that a Black man was owning/driving a nice car, and repeatedly denied good service at restaurants because they assumed he wouldn't tip.

So let me tell you, as a child who witnessed these types of offenses being inflicted on a regular basis to a successful person of color, I give two craps about what some delusional and out-of-touch old-school feminist has to say about the lives of people of color today.

My personal feminist duty is to vote for the candidate who makes me-- as a woman who's benefitted from an excellent education and the struggles of my parents-- feel confident in my future options. And that ain't Hillary Clinton.

astralgirl01

I just really think this whole debate would have been a much more pleasant experience had it not been for stoprobbers actively insulting me even though i did nothing to deserve it, and am disappointed that other jezzies didn't call her on it.

Pleasure

marin79

However, I also can ATTEST to the fact that the majority of the state disagreed with me on these issues. Clinton voted with her constituency which is her JOB. We have a representative government and it's her duty to support what her state wants - esp since this was NY after 9/11 and people were scared out of their minds.

Do I wish that all Senators voted against authorizing the President to use force? Hell yes. But do I hold it against them for voting in line with their constituents, which is what a democracy is founded on? Absolutely not.

marin79

Because by being an example of a mean-spirited clinton suupporter she didn't exactly bring me around... if such was her intention.

Archetype was the one who was actually trying to understand what I was saying.

Pleasure

marin79

What I think you were tryint to say was that while racism is based on shalow and unimportant biological differences, like skin color, sexism is rooted in very real biological differences...

Pleasure

So she's consistently a hawk, and therefore to me not that different from mccain, and i disagree with both on national security issues.

Pleasure

land surveyor k

Political Party Girl

marin79

As for the actual topic on this post, I would & will vote for a woman. And I call bullshit on the daughter saying she's never experienced sexism.

marin79

The only time I can say I was held back JUST because I was a woman was when I wanted to be a kicker on the football team in high school. They made me be a cheerleader.

Now, I've been sexually harassed at work but I'm the type to establish firm boundaries and if I have to lose a job 'cuz I call you on your shit, then there's always work at the post office. Then I become the "angry Black woman" because I called my boss )who said "got any Italian in you? want some?") a hairy pencil dick. And no, I didn't get fired... I actually got promoted to another department.

I've had car salesmen raise an eyebrow when I know my stuff, and I've had fancy boutiques asl for 3 forms of ID for my AMEX.

There are some days men stare at my boobs when I'm talking. There are days I get called a n****r to my face. Sometimes I get called n****r bitch, so I guess it's racism first, sexism second?

ceejeemcbeegee

Pleasure

Pleasure

Pleasure

Archetype

and guess what, there are things i like about mccain - his lobbyist stance (even though it's questionable) which I think is critical for the future of america as a democracy and his environmental stance.

and while not voting for hillary, i will be contributing money and time to bring a more democratic congress...

Pleasure

Political Party Girl

Okay, now that makes some sense. I don't agree, but it's a reason, at least.

The Clintons have been in the national spotlight for quite some time, of COURSE they are going to be more controversial.

Archetype

Pleasure

I am not going to argue on the feminism front, but I take SERIOUS issue with fellow democrats who say, "if Obama/Clinton is the candidate, I will vote for McCain."

Really, I cannot get my brain around this.

Archetype

i am not saying it's easy, and i'm still thinking about it, but i think i have the right to vote for whoever the hell i want to without being insulted. also, perhaps your thinking is wrong. perhaps, when you see a strong liberal and feminist not voting for hillary you should ask not "is pleasure a real feminist?" but "why do the clintons alienate so many card carrying liberals"?
just a thought.

Pleasure

But I hear you, Steinem, Ferarro et al are seriously effing up HRC's chances.

@Miss Smith Drank Your Vodka: Oh, I'm mainly referring to this article and Steinem and that other one about the Newsweek articles: these groups are saying "A vote for HRC is a vote for feminism" and questioning why a woman would betray her "sisterhood" and vote for a man. Then I have to wonder why are we all of a sudden "sisters" when historically (and even quite recently) have not been? Is it because you need my vote now?

ceejeemcbeegee

Cfredl54

I brought up Bush because he hasn't been listening to HIS Constituency for quite some time.

Their public is not the only aspect, of course. But it should certainly be where their opinions start. The public got them elected because it felt it would be represented, after all.

Archetype

For the record, i think mmcain is the least objectionable republican, and clintont is the most objectionable democrat. those are legitimate opinions, held, if you go to democratic websites, by many people.

you may convince me with arguements, but you won't convince me by insulting me.

Pleasure

Political Party Girl

I like to hear the experiences of non-white women. My feeling is that racism has been stigmatized more than sexism. Sexism on the whole seems more culturally hegemonic. This isn't to say that one is worse than the other, or more common. Both are around, both suck.

Archetype

SinisterRouge

1. Hillary's entire claim of experience rests on the idea that she is the one who knows her away the "good old boys' club" of Washington politics, and has been around long enough to know how to deal with it

2. Her best tactics for actually getting the nomination rest on superdelegates and a brokered convention -- in other words, being chosen not by primary voters, but by the "boy's club"/patriarchy of party insiders and career politicians

If she doesn't get the nomination, it won't be because some institutionalized patriarchal boys' club stepped in and kept from here -- she was the presumptive choice of the institution, right up until someone else kept outperforming her at the actual polls! It's not an elite patriarchy holding her back, it's a nagging insufficiency of people actually, you know, voting for her in primaries.

briardahl

SinisterRouge

Why are you bringing up Bush? I'm against clinton because I htink she has a lot in common with bush. that's totally not relevant.

Pleasure

But why am I trying to defend myself against someone that judges how feminist someone is based on some posts on the internet? Let me judge you now and say you need to chill.

nasturtium

Archetype

I am a "light-skinned" Hispanic. I am a Legal Assistant. Last week we had a client in for signing.
Several of the clients (older white males, natch) walked past me to shake the hand of the male just next to me (a young black Legal Assistant in training). They walked right past me and shook his hand, started joking about his firm handshake, which lead to sports convos.

I dont know what I'm really trying to say except that they ignored me and assumed I was an underling based on my gender primarily (because I look white) and if they did do it on my race, they placed Hispanics/Mexicans below African-Americans.

Shit I have to work now. Will have to read comments later. Carry on without me.

Miss Smith Drank Your Vodka

Archetype

@Pleasure: Not to sound insulting again, but your reasoning is wrong. They're not the same. If you took some time to really look at all three of them, you would understand that. Meanwhile, your technique in persuading people toward Obama -- the technique of equating Hillary to McCain -- is disgusting. They are NOT the same. This presidential election is historic for many reasons, not the least of which is that this country is incredibly close to complete domestic breakdown. And you have to understand how dangerous it is to give such a fragile place to Republicans for four more years. There is so, so very much more at stake than indulging your personal brand of liberalism.

Change is slow, and it takes sacrifices. This is a sacrifice worth making.

stoprobbers

SinisterRouge

Not trying to be an ass - but what else would they base their policy decisions on?? I would hope that would be their jumping off point.

Archetype

There are varying degrees.

Pleasure

SinisterRouge

Pleasure

Archetype

Archetype

Because there are different classes of feminists, as I know you know with your reference to black feminists.

So some feminists are speaking of, and acting to, promote the welfare of females in general, some specify a race, class, both, etc in their cause.

I've re-wrote this paragraph a couple times now. I guess I just don't understand why you are responding to several posts about the feminist movement ignoring the needs of black females when I don't feel there is an exclusive, ominous "Feminist Movement."

Miss Smith Drank Your Vodka

But... i have a right to rationally think there would be no big difference between a clinton presidencey and a mccain presidency for all sorts of very complicated reasons, without being insulted. argue, don't yell. don't make me feel like an idiot.

ugh. this is what i hate about the internet.

Pleasure

SinisterRouge

Archetype

SinisterRouge

Wow, thanks for the sarcasm about my degree, nice one. Hillary Clinton wasn't part of my studies, she was first lady at the time though. I was mostly interested in radical feminism. My point is that would we apply a First "Man"s time as experience? Probably not. I know she is a Senator, so is Obama.

nasturtium

SinisterRouge

SinisterRouge

SinisterRouge

That same logic got George W. Fucking Bush elected TWICE in the past eight years. Do you have eyes? A home? A family? A bank account? Do you not understand how close this country is to collapsing? McCain will follow in Bush's footsteps. It will be at least four more years of HELL.

Liberals HAVE a spine. Hillary Clinton has one HELL of a spine. In fact, the things you criticize her on, the things you call centrist policy, ARE her spine. Those are her political and economic beliefs, and ain't no one gonna make her fucking PANDER to a liberal pansy who doesn't have enough guts to suck it the fuck up and make the RIGHT FUCKING CHOICE. This country will DIE if we have to deal with four more years of Republicans, and that is NOT an understatement.

Compromise. Politics are about compromise. Is Obama my first choice? Yes. But saying I would vote for McCain rather than Hillary, portraying them as the same? Pleasure, if that's really how you feel do us all a favor and don't vote at all.

This is the kind of idealistic, unrealsitic thinking that Nadar preyed on in 2000. If all those people who thought Gore wasn't whatever-enough had just sucked it up, Bush wouldn't have been able to challenge election results enough to get his case heard and decided in Supreme Court instead of by the voters as it had been for centuries beofre that. If you expect America to do right by you, then you have to fucking do right by your country.

stoprobbers

For the record, I'm an edwards girl originally.

Pleasure

Also, if anything, chances are that New York was more anti war than most of the US.

ALSO, I think she probably is taking this hawkish line because as a woman, she feels pressure to appear "strong". This sucks, but i still wouldn't vote for her.

Pleasure

Cfredl54

SinisterRouge

I was just infuriated when someone said I am not a feminist b/c I would vote for mccain. politics is complicated. you make all sorts of calculations.

Pleasure

rocknrollunicorn

SinisterRouge

SinisterRouge

Pleasure

When you are a politician, your job is to represent your Constituency. Now, I did not agree with our invasion of Iraq, but she was the Senator of NY. I am not from the state, but I would imagine that it had something to do with her decision.

Archetype

SinisterRouge

SinisterRouge

Also, I don't equat