<![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife" - Jezebel Comments]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife" - Jezebel Comments]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> I agree with velvetjones, no one knows what she is planning on doing. It's easier said than done to just end a 20 year marriage with 3 kids. If she wasn't standing by his side at the press conferences then people would be criticizing her for not being there.

dvi8

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> I can't say that I completely disagree with sumac, if only because I am a woman (and a mother of 3) in a profession that SO many women "drop out" of once they have even one child that, well, those of us who want (or wanted) to hang in there for the long haul (in my case, because I did have a ratbastard husband #1 who was a cheater and a non-child-supporter) are pretty much "mommy tracked" whether we like it or not. That's not to say that in a perfect world I wouldn't STRONGLY prefer to have a more family friendly workplace so that we could all, you know, get along and women could have better choices than 70 hours a week or unemployment, take it or leave it. My views on this might be somewhat clouded by the fact that I began my (now pretty much over) legal career at the same sweatshop where Silda Wall worked (and at the time I was a single mother).

jadzia

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> today's New York Post -- Andrea Peyser (the shock-jock of journalism) says Silda was Eliot's "doormat" for years, just cause she gave up her career for him.

that's screwed up i think, just because she chose her family over her job makes her a doormat?

dashenbka

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> Why the fuck should she have to "send a message" with her private life and marriage? Some people actually believe in the vow to hold one's spouse above all others, which means above the responsibility for being a message-sender to other women all the time. And some people actually believe in the marriage vows: better or worse. Get off her back.

Shaleur

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> In addition to the "fuck the haters, leave that poor woman alone" sentiment, I doubt that Spitzer begged her to be by his side; that decision was hers to make. So she did what she felt was the best thing, lets not judge. Plus, who knows - maybe she'll end up leaving him anyway.

MomoMcgee

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @Jezebabe: Fucking a 22-year-old prostitute who cost thousands of dollars is insignificant? And insisting on barebacking? Are you kidding?

Count me in as one of those who doesn't get the "for the children" argument. Divorce doesn't mean that Spitzer would no longer be in his children's lives, but it would mean that his wife put her foot down and said, "Enough. You can't treat me like this anymore."

I'm a kid of divorce, and I'll be frank with all of you - I'm glad my parents got divorced. Yeah, there were some really sucky parts about it, but living in a household with two parents who hated and resented her would have been far, far suckier. Divorce, even when you have kids, is not always the terrible evil it's been made out to be by some in this thread.

whynotshesaid

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> If she's staying for the sake of the kids, she's not doing them any favors. She's teaching them that it's okay for a man to cheat on his wife with hookers. Seriously. What kinds of relationships are their kids going to have with *that* as a model of marriage?

Neopatra

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> One more note: I found as a kid I was a lot happier during the times both parents were working. You don't want to be absent all the time, but kids do need some decompression time from parents as well.

richcreamerybutter

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> Don't get me wrong...I have great respect for parents, but I'm a little disturbed at the, "just wait until you have kids" tone of a few. Not all of us plan to have them, and this should not be part of the requisite composite for what defines a woman. For instance, I have so little respect for Barbara Boxer because of that holier-than-thou comment she made to Condi Rice, implying that her status as a non-mom didn't "qualify" her to DO HER JOB.

richcreamerybutter

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> I am not going to presume to know what was going on in her head when she made the decision. What i do know is that it was her husband, not Silda, who was doing the cheating, and piling on the wife--as many women, including Dr. Laura, have done--does not excuse the husband's behavior in any way. In fact it is a distraction.

What exactly is the correct way to control and support a philandering spouse? Is there a way? Despite all the attacks and suggestions to be either more independent and self-assured (from the modern ladies) or submissive (Dr. Laura and the traditionalists), there is no correct way, and likely nothing she could have done or undone: Dude was going to fuck a hooker (or an intern). That she stood by him at a press conference says nothing about what life between them now is like, not to mention the potential end of the life together and their family.

Silda also has children to think about. Imagine being them right now.

Stabby Hussein McStabberson

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @neuroticcharm: but what would be the point of raising "strong, self-sufficient daughters" if they, in turn, only raised "strong, self-sufficient daughters"? That's a whole lot of awesome women staying home just making more women to stay home.

you said exactly what I was thinking. this is FUNNY, the idea of a cycle of awesome women investing a lot of money into education for their daughters so they can stay at home and make and raise MORE awesome daughters...

@GingerVitis: but until it's 50-50 stay-at-home-dads -- PRAISE THE DAY -- you are sending a message about whose job it is to nurture and whose job it is to win the bread.

Of course we should all have our choice in the matter, but when women automatically choose to default to the traditional role (like changing their names), it makes me a little sad for daughters as a whole. It makes their career secondary to the man's.

richcreamerybutter

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @Maxine: @kerbr: I can't help but agree. As much as I would have loved for her to grab the mic after he was done resigning and announced their forthcoming divorce, I can't help but think that her standing there was her own way of being strong. She looked distraught, but she wasn't going to go hide and sequester herself, and she wasn't going to let anyone forget exactly who Spitzer is hurting - not his career, not the state of New York, but his family. It's a public apology to her.

Mcfrisky

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> "LISA! GET A HOLD OF YOURSELF!"

"But I'm SO Angry!"

"You can hold onto it forever. You're a WOMAN."

Yeah, I just quoted the Simpsons movie.

caranikosha

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> Once, just once, I'd like to see one of these betrayed political wives punch their philandering husbands right in the balls at one of these mea culpa press conferences. I would pay $10...no wait, we're in a recession, gotta be frugal...$5 whole American dollars to see that.

kikichanelconspiracy

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @frumious: Nail. Hammer. Bang.

As others more eloquent than I have been wont to say:

You can't win. You can't break even.

And you can't get out of the game.

Rooo sez BISH PLZ

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> He's the idiot, not her. Brava for your dignity under pressure, dear. Now cut the bastards balls off and feed them to him thru his nose.

CrankyOldBroad

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> Sumac is very clearly fourteen years old and in the eighth grade.

Cheffie

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @saradanger: Exactly. This first wave was about apeing men/the dominant corporate culture, and achieving everything on their terms. My question is, who is defining the value system and controlling it all?

arirang

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @GingerVitis: Oy, martyr? Hardly. Instead it's more like, this is an interesting experience I'd like to go through and hey, I can actually stay at home and fully experience being a parent and HEY I have my own money and assets anyway so why not? Believe it or not, there is some intellectual curiosity on the part of those who are able to be full time hands on parents. Everyone reads the same studies on kids and socialization, we all make the choices we do based on what works for us.

As for your comment about being kids not being around during old age due to lack of time or finances on their end, that's what MY finances are for.

arirang

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> Wouldn't it be great if she never spoke on the subject but tomorrow her piece of shit husband announced plans to open a halfway house for single mothers, donate $80,000 he spent on hookers to Planned Parenthood, or create a vocational training clinic for prostitutes (not the high class ones)? That's the kind of relationship I would want with a cheater: the ability to channel his evil into greater good.

Lisa Frank

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @sumac:

I just want to address your assertion that women who chose to opt out lose ground for all women. It troubles me that you (and Linda Hirshman) seem to imply that the ultimate goal of feminism should be to maximize one's earning potential, and therefore the combined earning potential of all women. This does not necessarily give us more power over our destinies, but sometimes enslaves us to jobs that are not always meaningful. Sometime it means that we have even less time to ourselves, and even less choices. I'm nearly ten years out of college, and pretty successful in what has been a male dominated field - and more often than not the work feels unsatisfying. I consider myself to be a feminist, but I also can't help but feel like a wage slave as well, and opting out is looking more and more attractive. I just don't understand the notion that being successful and being a feminist should be equated with working more, and making more money. For what? So we can buy more shit and have bigger houses and live lifestyles that are literally destroying the enviroment? Shouldn't it be about choice and freedom?

saradanger

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> I don't think it's fair to judge another's relationship because the poeple involved are the ones that have to deal with it. Obviously he's done alot to damage that relationship and only she knows if its worth salvaging. Not only does she have to deal with him, but she also has to console her three daughters that not all men are pieces of shit like daddy.

Pyrovixen

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> I have no opinion on whether she should have told by his side or not. But if were her, his balls would be nailed to the wall after this news came out. She left a job that she seemed very dedicated to, to raise their children and perform various other domestic activities. And he rewards her by sleeping around with hookers? I don't care if they are high priced, who knows what kind of nastiness he could have brought home. Oh, yeah I might also burn all of his clothes on the front lawn for good measure.

AW99

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @petunia942: Lots of parents who believe that their kids are happier and more social b/c of (good) daycare. You must be aware of that.

Study after study has shown it makes little difference -- it may makeyou feel better to stay home with your child, but it really doesn't matter to the kid if it's you, a relative, a nanny or a daycare center, as long as they're getting the attention/stimulation they need.

GingerVitis

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @TaraIncognita has contempt for people who have contempt for...:

Or sad. I think it's sort of sad, actually.

I think it's probably been said, but Silda would've been lambasted had she NOT played the Supportive Wife, yeah? She's really in a fucked position.

IrishMcKilla

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @neuroticcharm: Okay, now you sound just as crazy and poorly informed as Sumac. Really, no benefit? Contrived? I don't think anyone thinks that a daycare center is better for kids than a happy parent.

petunia942

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> I think she knew it was going on and made her choices about how to handle it.
She's a bright woman and able to make her own decisions.

It's the kids that have to deal with this and that is who i feel sorry for--hugs to them.

The whole thing makes me sick to my stomach.

Grosss.

snowyday

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @IrishMcKilla:
I think it's funny someone has contempt for me.

I like your response better than mine. Well said.

Tara Incognita

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @LoveNoelG: I mean, part of that is recognizing and trying to remove the constraints on those choices, like the fact that the need to stay home to raise the children was the "reality" of Silda's life (and those of so many other successful professional women) and not her husband's. But yeah, we really shouldn't be hating on women for making that choice in those circumstances. Especially when the woman in question has just been humiliated in front of the entire country! Good lord.

teaplease

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> At this stage in my life I'm a housewife, by choice and good fortune. My three young kids and I do pretty much whatever we want all day long. We play, we go to the park, we cook, we color. Sometimes I cue up Yo Gabba Gabba at 4:00 and start cocktail time an hour early, because I can. My husband comes home to a happy woman and happy children. I've never had this much fun in my life, and I think it's funny someone has contempt for me.

IrishMcKilla

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @WhateverCraig:

@sumac: As a housewife, fuck off.

Yeah, I second that (and I hate telling people to fuck off, but you know, I've been testy, and here's a great place to direct that stuff.)

Tara Incognita

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @exelizabeth:
. Men STILL don't have to worry about balancing parenthood and career and aren't judged for doing both. While they may get a little crap if they stay home, they're also just as likely to practically get a medal.

I had a baby last year and stay at home. When my husband and I went to the childbirth classes, one of the dads-to-be announced he'd be staying home. There was a lot of, "Wow, that's cool, man"-type conversation but our instructor pointed out that he's not doing something entirely unusual by parenting his child...women have been doing it for awhile.

I don't know how I feel about it, because I think it took the mood of the room down a bit. I liked that the reaction was a positive one for this guy. And my husband was all, "I'm jealous" - though I suspect, now that he's seen what it really takes, he's sort of happy to get out in the mornings (don't get me wrong, he loves the little guy.)

Tara Incognita

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @TheGuvnah: Best comment on this issue. The Mommy Wars are awful and we just tear each other up over them (granted, sumac started with a real asshole comment, and people are lashing back).

While I support women who choose to stay home, I resent that there is WAY more pressure on women than men to make that choice, and WAY more judgment about women no matter what choice she makes. Men STILL don't have to worry about balancing parenthood and career and aren't judged for doing both. While they may get a little crap if they stay home, they're also just as likely to practically get a medal.

exelizabeth

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @GingerVitis: True, but I guess I'm saying this because I would stop working in a minute if i could, kids or no. Job just isn't that important to me, and I like doing things around the house. I'm sure I'll always do some kind of work, I always have - but it may be in and out as kids need me, and we'll make do. i can't see slaving away for some asshole just to make a feminist point when I'd be happier at home making dinner for my family. And I am a HUGE feminist, I just really like to cook!

teapartys_over

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @sumac: Oh, no! Please don't be done with us. Who else will tell us how to live our own lives? I can't believe that I, for one, have lived for so long without your thoughtful, stellar wisdom. Please, continue. Lay it all out for us, step by step. The guide to the perfect life, by sumac.

Pithlit

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @msAnthrope: my point is that probably 75 percent of what humans churn out in their working lives is unnecessary or self-indulgent. yet it's valued because you can put a dollar amount to it. because a dollar amount can't be put to taking care of a home, kids, etc., it's trivialized."

But at what point are people doing society a favor by keeping the "replacement population" up...and at what point are they doing what they simply want to (having children) and then asking to be paid for it?

If I get an education and work at a company or at a family practice or at the DA's office and put bread on the table that way, that's an equal good/service to the parent who actually tries to fulfill they commitment THEY signed up for when they brought more children into the world?

I am not saying society (I am thinking of America--I realize some commenters come from other places) doesn't send mixed, fucked up messages regarding having children, investment in children , "family values", all that crap, and that creates a work culture that either pits singles against parents or older employees (WOMEN) against hot young things, etc. etc.

But at what point are stay-at-home parents going to take responsibility for the notion that SOCIETY does not pop out those financial dependents...individuals do?

P.S. Fuck me, I am aware we could look to other countries (other countries that have a better system for all this stuff than America...this is not Scandinavia, or the Netherlands though, so could we mimic them?) for some answers.

marie123

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @bess marvin, girl detective: I agree that it's not grounds for execution, but I also think that the prompting comment was really inappropriate. Brookidy's was an overreaction, but I think you'd agree there's a difference between saying "this isn't how I choose to do it, and for these reasons" and saying that you have no respect for another point of view or way of doing things besides the one you've chosen. Different strokes.

FourInchHeels

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @iowagrl: I mean, seriously, right on.

Economic reasons aside, I don't understand what anyone actually accomplishes by staying home other than telling themselves that if they hadn't, their children would have turned out to be horrible people. Which is so obviously not the case.

neuroticcharm

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @arirang: As much as I respect your honesty, I also believe your point of view is immature from a world and life experience perspective.

As immature, perhaps, as assuming that because you've been a martyr to your children, they won't grow up to be adults who move away or lack the money or time off from work to care for an elderly parent?

GingerVitis

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @katekate: I'm assuming you don't mean to insult those of us who turned out pretty damn good despite not having a stay-at-home parent -- whether it was by choice or not.

iowagrl

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> I would take the kids and hit the road (parent's house/summer house whatever) and let the husband and his lawyers sort it out.

Dina Matos (McGreevy) said on the today show that she did it for her kids, but I think it's a terrible example for her children. I would never want any child of mine to be treated so poorly by her husband.

Of course, it's her decision to do what she sees fit, I just don't understand it.

missdona

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @WhateverCraig: Yeah, that's true. I hope she and her daughters can support each other in what must be a really harrowing time. But I think my main issue is with the idea that women have to stay at home with their children 24/7, or else the kids are just fucked. A lot of people truly seem to believe that leaving the kids at day care, or with a nanny or babysitter, is unacceptable and abhorrent. And as someone who grew up with babysitters, other relatives watching me, and going to (admittedly crappy) after-school programs, I can say that I am NOT traumatized at all, nor do I think I'd be a better person in any way had my mom stayed home. I'm glad that my mom modelled self-sufficiency in that way to me.

AlannaBanana

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @WhateverCraig: I gots no problem...sheesh.

WhateverCraig

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @AlannaBanana: I gots to problem with those that choose to work outside of the home. Believe me, sometimes I want to go back myself, if only for a "break."

I think you'd really be angry at the situation. You would feel like you put your life on hold for a decision (kids) you BOTH made, and the thanks you get from him is getting cheated on. Perhaps that's why you would feel it's a "waste," but on reflection, I would hope you'd finally realize that you have to separate the sacrifice you made for your kids from getting the shaft from your husband. They really are two totally different animals. Hell, maybe looking at your three beautiful daughters would be the one thing that could help you through that shit..."look what happened to me, but there's the wonderful culmination of all that work."

WhateverCraig

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> "...she out-earned her husband as a mergers and acquisitions specialist at a top New York firm"

Two bits says he told her his $60K Ass't. D.A. salary was much harder to earn than her pathetic $300K or whatever. And she took it.

Her decision to stand there both times is hers, based on her marriage and her concerns. It's nothing we should question or criticize.

Um, that said? If she hadn't been standing right there you know this egomaniac would have gone off the rails. And the world now has tape of her enduring this. She wanted to be there; in the first (Monday) announcement she moved to her left to make sure she was in the shot.

The settlement dicussions when her lawyers rip apart Eliot's daddy's estate during the divorce will be, well, vivid.

lainiekazan

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @WhateverCraig: I don't know, I just don't take the opinions of strangers on the Internet that much to heart. And Sumac later responded and elaborated with some comments I found to be thought-provoking, in the midst of receiving nasty personal attacks from people who I guess are SAHMs or the children of them and felt threatened. By a stranger on the Internet. ANYWAY!

AlannaBanana

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @AlannaBanana: Ahh, but if I said something along the lines of, "I have nothing but contempt for women who have children and then go back to work, they're purely selfish," wouldn't I rightfully get the same treatment? Sumac made a personal swipe at a large group of people that consciously made a decision just because she doesn't agree with it. Make your argument, great. But don't come out of the gate insulting those that don't form their lives around your idea of what's right.

WhateverCraig

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @WhateverCraig: Yeah, that's fair. I'm really just speaking for myself- if I was her I'd probably feel that I had made a mistake, and now that my marriage was over and my kids older, I'd probably wish that I had a nice thriving career to fall back on. Doesn't mean that's how she feels, or how she should feel.

I'm also a product of two parents who worked consistently, and I think it's very possible to raise happy, smart, healthy kids without being there to watch over them 24/7. I personally find it unhealthy to make one's life entirely about one's own children. But again, just my opinion.

AlannaBanana

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @brookidy: be easy. she is just stating her opinion. how is that grounds for execution?

bess marvin, girl detective

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @RainbowBrite:

i haven't figured out the 12-point plan for implementing this yet so i don't have that answer. and i imagine it would differ depending on situation: working couples vs. one working | one stay-at-home vs. single parent.

my point is that probably 75 percent of what humans churn out in their working lives is unnecessary or self-indulgent. yet it's valued because you can put a dollar amount to it. because a dollar amount can't be put to taking care of a home, kids, etc., it's trivialized.

msAnthrope

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @AlannaBanana: The problem with that logic is you put all the emphasis on the husband. She didn't stay home just for him. Just because he cheated and was a world class louse doesn't change what she did for her daughters. I believe this is the base reason why she stayed home, not so she could be there to make dinner for him when he got home. She was there because of the children, so to say that because her husband cheated on her makes that sacrifice worthless is doing a huge injustice to her kids. His infedelity doesn't alter one bit how she raised the daughters, and it also doesn't mean that he wasn't a good father for the girls.

To sum it up - staying home isn't just about HIM.

WhateverCraig

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @AlannaBanana: I have a feeling Silda would not have any trouble getting back to work and kicking ass at it. She has been doing philanthropic work which may have real working world relevance and she is smart as shit. It's the personal life that's going to be a little bit tougher to get back together.

esmemurphy

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> Also, I really hope Sumac does not get executed for having a controversial / unpopular opinion, because I think he/she fostered some really interesting and lively discussion. (Aside from the people who were like, "wahhh, you're mean, fuck you," which, grow up.)

AlannaBanana

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @bess marvin, girl detective: Ah. Well, then, let me say that in many cases I agree.

braak

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @braak: what's considered powerful or what's considered valuable is different.

bess marvin, girl detective

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @arirang: This made me laugh out loud. My dear departed grandma, who was a widowed working mom (husband died at 42), incredible feminist (read Ms. and Mother Jones up until the day she died), incredible role model, and my favorite person in my life gave me this piece of advice just before she died: have kids. Lots of 'em. Who else is going to take care of your ass when you are old, crotchedy, and dying? At the time it made me sad, but in retrospect it is hilarious. There's a grain of truth there.

esmemurphy

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> I wouldn't judge her for what she decides to do with their marriage, though I personally have a very low tolerance for infidelity when children are involved. However, I do judge her for standing up with him at the press conferences. She shouldn't have done it. And here's mostly why I think that: while she was standing there with her husband on live broadcast national television while he admitted to seeing a prostitute WHO was with HER KIDS? They're the biggest losers here and what... are they just sitting in math class? That news is going to be on cell phones before the next period changes and they're going to be without their mother. That's where she should have been.

monkeyseedo

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @RedHotz:

I agree totally. Did the same, feel the same, would do it all over again just to see my child raised by me and not a nanny.

In the interest of full disclosure: my hubs and I did rock-paper-scissors to see who was going to stay home and raise the tot. I 'lost'...but I don't feel that my years of education and work experience were a waste. It just made me more confident in raising my daughter to be her own little self.

And who knows. I may go back to work for The Man someday. Maybe not. I DO know that I admire the hell out of Silda Spitzer. That takes major cajones to give up that kind of career to support her family and NOW THIS. I think someone else said it before me, but it bears repeating: Hate the playah, not the wife. (Didn't she look completely distressed on the news conference this morning???)

beeble

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @bess marvin, girl detective: I agree 100%. I couldn't imagine being a grown ass woman and have to be completely dependent on someone else for my livelihood. How vulnerable and disempowering.

I don't really have a problem with middle/lower-class people staying at home because of financial necessities. What bothers me, though, is that when women who are married to men who make decisions, whether in the public or private sector, stay home and take care of the house. The men then make decisions that are not beneficial to working moms OR working dads that end up driving even more women out of the work force. If women aren't around to demand flexible work time, family-friendly leave policies, etc, and the men who are making decisions all have wifeys at home taking care of their shit, how will there ever be change?

RainbowBrite

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> I understand what Sumac is saying and I think it's lame that people are making personal attacks on him/her, i.e. commenting on "mommy issues," etc. I do not feel contemptuous of housewives, but I can see the truth in Sumac's points.

Look, Silda abandoned an amazingly profitable, challenging, and fulfilling career, in which she presumably invested years of education and long hard hours, to "manage her family." Well, and what a family it is. Why wasn't her husband expected to help manage it? Why did she have to make such enormous sacrifices only to be publicly humiliated by her supposed partner, who clearly didn't give a damn about family management? If I was her, I'd be looking back right now thinking that I had made a huge mistake by investing everything I had in what turned out to be a lie, instead of being a mother AND a woman with a fulfilling career.

AlannaBanana

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @msAnthrope
"if women who choose home over career were paid what they were really worth, this discussion now wouldn't be happening."

I don't understand who is supposed to be paying the women who stay at home for their work? I work outside the home - can I be paid for doing chores, too? Unless one hires help, the shit to take care of at home has to get done, whether it's a SAHM doing it, or two working parents.

RainbowBrite

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @sumac: As much as I respect your honesty, I also believe your point of view is immature from a world and life experience perspective.

I hope that you live a long life in great health without any need for assistance in old age, or any younger relatives to check up on you at a nursing home. After all, you seem to have it all figured out perhaps you can lead the way for all of us.

arirang

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @bess marvin, girl detective: Is...are there Eastern cultures where power isn't valued? Or do you mean that the nature of what is considered "powerful" is sometimes drastically different?

braak

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @bess marvin, girl detective: It's funny, I do have a fancy degree, but I don't know anyone who has enough money to just stay home forever. I guess I don't hang with the fancy set. Living on the east coast is expensive, yo. And women definitely need to be able to support themselves if push comes to shove. Can't agree enough with that.

esmemurphy

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @teapartys_over: Well, yeah ... but it's the pernicious way that it's inevitably the woman who leaves her unfulfilling job-not-career that makes it more than just a "do what feels right" kind of thing, objectively.

I really do think that just encouraging more men to be SAHDs (tax credits? Mandatory paternity leave?) would ease a lot of the angst around this issue.

GingerVitis

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @teapartys_over: that's true too. power is something valued in western culture like money and land. thanks for pointing that out.

bess marvin, girl detective

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @rocknrollunicorn: Beautifully put.

SouthernComfort

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> I would not be standing in back of my hubby while he was confessing his sins at a press conference. I'm sorry, partner, but you're on your own. When he was doing the dirt, I wasn't there. Unless it was a threesome, well that's a different story.

pepsibennett

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @esmemurphy: true to dat. i guess i was talking about the ones that never go back. like i mentioned before (or i think i did, i don't see the post), money is power in this country and when you are at home and not working (unless you have your own cash), you give your husband the power. financial independence is absolutely necessary and not stressed enough to women.

bess marvin, girl detective

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @teapartys_over: @esmemurphy: Thank you! I started a business after my children went to middle school. I employ all men, I like my eye candy. I am leaving shortly to pick up my daughter to hit the beach for dinner. I am lucky enough to make my own hours, quite frankly I feel the need to be home in the afternoon more now than when they were younger. Teenagers need tight security IMHO. I want my daughter to be able to be happy in life. Why so many rules? Looking back at sumanc's comments I realize they are not about me. No fancy degrees here, just bootstraps. ;)

@desylicious: I don't know how teachers stay in public education as long as they do. As a former room mother though I want to point out those children come from homes with working mothers as well. I brought extra lunches for fieldd trips so those children did not have to take the walk of shame throught the cafeteria for the free box lunch. Always the same kids and they came from a wide spectrum of family life.

@mllej: I am sure your mom remebers that time fondly.

SouthernComfort

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> Someone could have pointed this out by now - who the fuck knows I can't read through all the comments, and I usually just give up now when there are so many - but:

Why didn't people attack David Vitter's wife when she was at his press conference looking like her heart had been ripped to shreds through that humiliation? Because she's Republican and expected to be a "good wife"?

NicoleItchy

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @teapartys_over: Thank you, you read my mind.

Not every job is rewarding, enjoyable, or moving you along to your eventual position as an influential feministic lady to be admired.

And I find fault in the idea that corporate culture and our capitalist society are things all women should strive to excel in. Why don't you take your revolution a little farther, sumac? Why don't we demand respect and admiration for jobs that are typically female and thus totally ignored and devalued?

rocknrollunicorn

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @bess marvin, girl detective: "You probably could've worded it better."

Story of my life. And thanks. Also: my mom did the same for me.

sumac

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @Jerseylicious: I'd opt out of the work force to be a stay-at-home doggie mom."

Jesus Christ--I am so tempted to pick that fight, every now and then, especially in classes where, during discussions, society's responsibility seem endless/ absolve individuals of responsibility...because I am the asshole who browses Petfinder for cats and dogs I cannot take care of, supervise, feed, or create stability for, not right now.

Oh well, wrong board.

marie123

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @FatBottomedGirl:

"child-centric" that's funny!

the problem is that "home administration" doesn't produce financial results, which is why it's trivialized in our capitalistic culture. but add up what you'd pay for a nanny, chef, laundry service, chauffeur, housecleaning etc., if you didn't "opt out," but chose anyway to have kids and/or a household~~ you see you'd be dropping serious money for these services.

if women who choose home over career were paid what they were really worth, this discussion now wouldn't be happening.

msAnthrope

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @FatBottomedGirl: You just can't argue with someone who uses the term " child-centric" about issues like this. It is like telling a brick wall to move."...

...Or maybe she's referring to the fact (debated here before) that people FAAAAARRRR overestimate their "contribution to the common good" b/c they choose to have children (or mess up their birth control) and--shockingly--actually take responsibility for the kids THEY brought into the world, and that it's still okay to ask couples, "So when are you having kids?" and to EXPECT women to work and have kids, or do the latter. I will say this--the assholes who fail the children they bring into the world certainly contribute to "common bads."

P.S. I want to give those people who do their damndest to raise their children to be happy, healthy and well-behaved a fruit basket b/c it seems at least a substantial minority of parents think society owes them more and more for THEIR fertility choices, regardless of whether they're actually conscientious parents.

Society is "child-centric" in that enough people seem to have children simply b/c it is conventional/normative; plenty of people just DO IT without planning or critical consideration of the commitment.

marie123

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @sumac: Not everyone wants influence or power. Not everyone enjoys their career. If you are able and choose to stay home, there are some simple steps you can take to protect yourself. There's this sort of bullshit idea out there that all women are high-powered lawyers until they drop out and become baby makers. Some of us have mediocre careers that we're happy to leave - and it doesn't necessarily make financial sense to stay. Not every boring middle management job is some feminist empowerment vehicle. News flash: not everyone, man or woman, is motivated by work success, period. You just do what makes sense for your family and finances.

teapartys_over

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @bess marvin, girl detective: Let me preface by saying I agree with you. This is the problem I was talking about-- this misunderstanding that most "housewives" never go back to work. Most stay at home moms I know only stayed home for the first few years until the kids went to school. Then they re-entered the workforce, albeit at either the same or lower level than they were at when they left. Keep in mind that you still will probably have 20+ years to work after your kids go back to school depending on when you have them. This is why the whole SAHM vs. working woman division is such bullshit. You may lose momentum staying home, but it probably won't ruin you as long as you stay networked.

esmemurphy

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @Jerseylicious: My point is only that no one (including women) really values being a full-time mom all that much, or raising daughters to raise more daughters wouldn't seem that ridiculous. (And more men would stay home).

If you want to stay home because you hate your job, or it is more financially feasible than paying for childcare, or even if you just plain enjoy it that's one thing. But I think people should admit that and not pretend to do it because being there All The Time to raise your children is so important. Enjoyable maybe for some, but not important.

neuroticcharm

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @sumac: i feel you but you probably could've worded it better. maybe agree to disagree with housewives? contempt is way strong a word. or perhaps that is what you feel. congrats for being brave enough to pose it.

personally, i'm glad that my mom worked and showed me upon divorcing my dad that it is so important to be independent within a marriage especially since you don't know when the shit is going to hit the fan. one reason i could not be a housewife? what to do with all those hours in the day. i mean, after my kid turns a certain age, then chores like cleaning, cooking, laundry can be doled out. not to mention my husband's input.

again, i can see myself possibly staying at home when my children are young, but then after they go to school, how would i spend my day? what really needs to get done?

bess marvin, girl detective

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> i disagree. I don't think it takes guts to stand beside your husband after such an ordeal. This whole scenario with the cheating politician and the wife standing beside him at "the press conference of shame" has become really cliche. I sympathize with the humiliation and the public scrutiny that she and her children have been subject to, since the scandal broke, but I don't feel sorry for her, or think she's a strong person based solely on her decision to stand at her husband's side at the press conference. It's just like with Hillary. I'm a Hillary supporter,and it would do Hillary a great disservice to think that she's somehow naive when it comes to her husband's indescretions. She has her own motives for staying with Bill, and I respect them. So, do I feel sorry for Hillary? No I don't. Would I feel sorry for Silda if she decided to stay with her husband. No, I wouldn't, and I certainly wouldn't think of Silda as some kind of silent hero either.

uhoh-ohno

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @Kevin O: Is she announcing in front of national news outlets that she blew $80,000 on prostitutes, hated using condoms, and was a complete hypocrite while you stand there to support her out of duty/shock/godknowswhat so that for the next week you'll be ridiculed for your behavior?

Le Kangourou de Kataroo

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @sumac: You're stuck in the first wave feminism point of view. We're on the fourth wave now, get out of the way. I'm in my late 30s with my first child and staying at home because it was the best use of MY time and MY education. And yes I have plenty o' fancy degrees. Now I ask you, if I or anyone else decided to stay at home to take care of an ailing spouse, parent or other family member, would we be wasting our time and education? Taking care of child can be as challenging as an invalid, unless you've experienced one or both STFU.

arirang

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> ugh, the story broke like two days ago. Maybe she will leave him, maybe she won't, but TWO FUCKING DAYS is not enough time in which to decide with 3 kids and a lot of years of marriage behind you. Give the woman a break. Like we need to rely on her to be a role model for our little girls or something -- why don't we take him to task instead?

rocknrollunicorn

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> I'd opt out of the work force to be a stay-at-home doggie mom. But that's just because I hate my job and love my pups. :)

@neuroticcharm: Who's to say that Silda's raising her daughters to make the same choices that she did? Maybe she's raising these "strong, self-sufficient daughters" to make their own decisions in life.

Jerseylicious

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> I don't know what to think of them anymore. I mean, I would be more understanding if this only happened rarely: a politician's wife standing up for her husband in support when he has been accused of infidelity. If it was only 1 wife that did this, I'd be ok, you know maybe she has her reasons. BUT EVERY FUCKING TIME? Are they paid for this? What the HELL?

1.Senator Vitter's wife - Associated with DC Madam scandal.
2.Senator Craig's wife - Husband caught propositioning gay sex in airport restroom.
3.Ex New Jersey Gov. James McGreevey's wife - Husband is "Gay American".
4.New York Governor Eliot Spitzer's wife - Husband paid for prostitutes.

ALL and I mean ALL of them stood next to their cheating husbands on the podium when the husbands apologized to the national public.

Simply put, WTF? I mean, really WTF?

perphiction

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> So if my wife cheats on me, can I blacken her eyes?

Kevin O

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @sumac: This is so infuriating. You clearly have no idea what a powerful, life-changing experience having children can be. The second my child was born, I understood that this was my purpose on earth--NOT SAYING EVERY WOMAN MUST OR EVEN SHOULD FEEL THIS WAY, ONLY THAT MANY DO--to raise this human being, not to slave my well-educated ass off making money for some uncaring corporation. So many of our jobs are meaningless. Raising children is not.

Oh, and just so you know, I still work. Does this make me a better person? No. I work because I have to. Being a mother makes me a better person.

ihateyourescalade is an east coast elite

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @neuroticcharm: Exactly.

GingerVitis

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @katekate: while i don't agree with sumac's sweeping generalization, in our society money is power. when you're not making the money, you don't have the power. financial independence is not stressed enough to females and i think that is a HUGE problem.

bess marvin, girl detective

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @sumac: So the choice between staying home and going back to work is entirely hypothetical to you. I can completely respect your decision to not have kids. I am an anomoly among the women in my family because I do have kids and didn't always make my career priority number one (my own mother, grandmother, and great-grandmother were all very career oriented even in a time when that was not the norm), and I have no issue with that. But you can't expect your opinions about how to manage your family obligations in regards to children to carry a lot of weight with people who actually have made that choice or who will have to make that choice since you will never know the reality of what you are talking about.

esmemurphy

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @desylicious: also, please do not "volunteer" in our classrooms. Raise your children well. Teach them respect and manners. Give us enough money. You helping in the classroom is, believe it or not, more work for us.

And as for SUMAC, I would agree with her if she is referring to those women who waste their educations and careers to drop out as a status symbol, i.e. "we're rich enough I don't even bother to contribute" while babysitters raise their children. The same women who later freak the shit out about their "sacrifices for the children" when the inevitable divorce happens.

I have witnessed this phenomenon first hand, and it is pathetic, the arrogance of this lifestyle. This was a topic of discussion here a few months ago wasn't it?

desylicious

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> Amen Gingerlime (as to the ending of women badmouthing each other, as to the face slapping, well, that would've been sweet too)!
Look, the fact of the matter is, we don't know what this woman's marriage looks like. It may not look like yours, and probably doesn't since she made a different choice than many of you clearly would have made, but there is no reason to believe, based on the facts about her, that she is anything but the kind of woman we're all supposed to strive to be and admire.
Let her make her own decisions people.

quickbird

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> Haha okay, "Feminazi" might be a good punchline, but I think Sumac has actually invented an amazing form of feminist totalitarianism, in which you are REQUIRED to make a verifiable contribution to society and the progress of women within it! Motherhood is counter-revolutionary -- off to the re-education camps! Finding any gratification in a traditional gender role is decadent! From each according to what we tell her, and to each according to what we tell her! Individual preferences are a betrayal of the femmeproletariat!

briardahl

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> I would both love to be a stay at home mom and a career gal. I'll make the choice when the time comes. I don't think it's a bad example for women to stay home with their children. I don't think it's a bad example for women to work. And I think anyone who says that it's a travesty to the world in general for a woman to stay at home needs to reevaluate their own ego.

And as a nanny, my job depends on people working and letting others take care of their kids.

Le Kangourou de Kataroo

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> If it was Harvard educated single woman who opted out to sculpt larged breasted women out of car parts, people like Sumac would be singing her praises.

You just can't argue with someone who uses the term " child-centric" about issues like this. It is like telling a brick wall to move.

FatBottomedGirl

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @sumac: Thank "any diety of your choosing" for your lack of interest in procreation. It would not end well.

Trashtastic is proud to be an American!!!!

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> I don't think sumac is a troll. I don't recall what sorts of comments she's made in the past, but her statements on this issue don't qualify her as a troll. Hell, apparently I've said some inflammatory things before but I don't remember ever being accused of "trolling." Trolling is a pretty specific, obvious activity. She's posted on other threads and not just to stir shit up.

SarahMC

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @GingerVitis:

I think it juuust maybe has something to do with her initial comment.

mllej

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @Trashtastic is a Supporter of the On Notice Three!: What can I say? I have some inflammatory opinions.

sumac

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @SoCalGilligan: WORD. Just in case anyone missed what you said:
Don't feed the troll, folks.

Trashtastic is proud to be an American!!!!

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @Trashtastic is a Supporter of the On Notice Three!: Okay, just playing devil's advocate here, but what would be the point of raising "strong, self-sufficient daughters" if they, in turn, only raised "strong, self-sufficient daughters"? That's a whole lot of awesome women staying home just making more women to stay home.

neuroticcharm

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @Cry4Hemp: that said, i don't think the former governor was thinking of his marriage and how 'together' he was with his wife while he was with prostitutes.

i think silda did what she had to do. what if the shoe was on the other foot? what if a married governor who happened to be a woman was caught paying escorts for sex? do we think that the woman's husband would stand by her or bail immediately?

rednrowdy

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> I'm sorry, but I don't get why sumac is being called a troll or a jerk or whatever for expressing what's certainly a well-documented (Hirshman, et al) opinion. You might not agree with it, and she might be using stronger language than you like, but jeez, this is the internets, people.

Personally -- as a choicey-choice-choosing feminist -- I agree that opting out often doesn't send the world's greatest message to girls. I've upset people on this board by saying this before, but I was raised by a SAHM who I didn't end up having a whole lot of respect for, because I picked up on the fact that she was using motherhood as a crutch while other people's mothers worked, and seemed a lot more interesting and satisfied with their lives as a result. I am sure all the SAHMs on this blog are in completely different situations, of course, but until it's 50-50 stay-at-home-dads -- PRAISE THE DAY -- you are sending a message about whose job it is to nurture and whose job it is to win the bread.

You might be fine with that message, but don't pretend it's not there.

GingerVitis

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> Okay, everyone, I stand behind my opinions and what I've said. I personally feel contempt for women who opt out. BUT I also do not want my own children. I do not value having children for my own self, in my life. I do not understand or appreciate this child-centric culture, like, at all. And this obviously informs my opinions. So, FWIW.

sumac

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> How about this, for argument's sake:

Some may say that women's work is invisible, but trust me, its not. When I was a teacher it was really obvious when stay at home moms were or were not doing their "house work". You wanna know whom teachers have contempt for? Lazy (and not overworked, we can tell the difference) parents who let the public school system raise their kids.

I can tell if you are a neglectful parent because your 9 year old comes in to school smelly and rolls around the floor like a 3 year old. Then we have to stop educating your child and teach them basic hygiene and life skills. Now THAT is invisible, unpaid work.

desylicious

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @arodriguez.romero: Thank you. I know you know what I am talking about since you work and have kids. Obviously a topic close to my heart and I hate it when people make generalizations about it.

esmemurphy

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @sumac: That still assumes that working for a corporation is more valuable than being a mother, or that they are mutually exclusive. I just don't agree/accept this, because I see so many successful examples of both. I also (personally), as a self-employed person, do not place much value on climbing a corporate ladder as a means to attain self-worth, or as the betterment of all womanity. Let's keep our choices open -- that seems like the most desirable goal to me. If someone with a PhD opts out of working to be a stay-at-home mom, and she's happy, that's cause for celebration.

BeSarcastic

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @SouthernComfort:

Exactement. My mom took four years off work when I was a kid and ran the library at the elementary school till she went back to work. "Not working" does not mean "not contributing".

mllej

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @sumac: @LoveNoelG: Why? I find it highly offensive and degrading that Harvard educated women--women who could potentially change the lives of women everywhere for the better--drop out of the workforce. I don't agree with choice feminism

Do you have children? Does it occur to you that this woman might have chosen to change the lives of women everywhere for the better by raising self-sufficent, strong, and indepentant daughters?

Or do you just spew randomly inflammatory venom in hopes you'll get our attention?

Speaking of degrading and offensive. You are insinuating you know better than anyone else the definition of feminism and how we should all fall in line accordingly.

Trashtastic is proud to be an American!!!!

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @marie123: I agree with some of the points you made--that SOME women get screwed if they have big families and the family falls apart b/c THEY'VE stayed home-"

Fuck I meant to say they get screwed b/c they had big families, the wives stay home and raise th kids, and WHEN the family falls apart for whatever reason, they may be left high and dry.

marie123

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @sumac: Mmmm. There's honest, and then there's unnecessarily brutal and downright offensive. Internal censors might be a good idea. Try em on, see how you like it.

FourInchHeels

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @sumac: As a former "housewife" I would like to know who do you think dedicates the time to the woefully underfunded public schools? I stayed at home until my children went to middle school and I was happy with my decision. I was very active in all the school programs, ask public school teachers how much contempt they have for stay at home moms.

This is not to say working moms are not active in the schools but their schedules were more rigid.

SouthernComfort

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @sumac: The idea that raising children is the "most important job in the world" is a fallacious one. Not to mention the fact that if your husband dies or divorces you, you're screwed."

I think I agree with you at least on the "having children" thing (of course, HAVING children and raising them bears some minor differences...any asshole can pop out a kid and say they are "doing the most important job in the world.")

The problem is that people (men and women) want children but the caretaking role is more likely to fall on women. The mainstream goes with this notion--"well, women have wombs, they're bonded with babies from birth/breastfeeding"-- so we (society...not feminists or women who don't want kids, or else, want to work AND have kids, etc. etc.) get comfortable with the notion that women more naturally fit into the caretaking role.

It seems in the problematic set-up you think Silda represents, either some people either have to stop having kids (choosing to have kids...having kids b/c they fuck up or don't use birth control...etc) or else have LESS kids while they wait for the gender roles to even out at home and at work.

I don't know. I agree with some of the points you made--that SOME women get screwed if they have big families and the family falls apart b/c THEY'VE stayed home--but at least Silda set it up so that she could more easily re-enter the work force if need be. She has the back-up of her resume and strong education. She's a special case. That doesn't mean other homemakers have the same back-ups (and yes it is harder for older women to re-enter the work force, which sucks, but that's another matter...or is it?)

The family was lucky enough that one parent could work, one could stay home, and the family could stay financially comfortable. She had her education/resume as a back up. Her daughters probably benefited from her presence.

I feel so sorry for her and her girls.

marie123

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @JessicaLovejoy: Ohhh....is your real name Frige?

braak

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @sumac seriously? I think you may need to take a refresher course in feminism. A Harvard educated woman is contributing plenty to society by spending her time raising three girls.

Also, I don't think anyone can say whether she was right or wrong to stand with him. Who knows what goes on in their relationship. For all we know she's got some dirty laundry of her own.

flancake

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @esmemurphy: you summed that up very nicely.

arodriguez.romero speaks java

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @1edyfirel: Absolutely not. He'd be tarred and feathered and called a "pussy."

SarahMC

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @RedHotz: That sounds great. My point is that the folks who prattle on about how "motherhood is the most important job in the world" are the ones least likely to take up that job themselves (i.e. men). To all the retro, conservative, "values voter" men, I ask: If it's so spectactular, why aren't YOU doing it?

SarahMC

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> I don't really get the "for the sake of the children" thing either. My parents stayed in a terrible marriage for 17 years for the kids. The day my dad moved out was awful--but also not awful b/c we all felt a little lighter, like finally it was acknowledged, okay, this fucking thing is over. Even if a marriage isn't filled with rip-down, drag-out fights, kids still sense the tension, still understand that underneath there may be much animosity, etc., and that things are forces --and usually much more than their parents can imagine, I think. That just wears everyone down. Divorce sucks for kids and parents, but at some point people do begin to heal (though it took my family about 10 years)--but I think growing up with parents who are in an awful marriage is worse.

As for Silda--she's not the issue. Her dirtbag hypocrite husband is. In the matter of only a few days she's found herself in a devastating situation--and I'm sure she's smart enough to feel conflicted about standing up there with her husband. Maybe she'll leave him, maybe she won't, who knows. It's not our business. I imagine right now she's in self-preservation mode--and kid-preservation mode--and just trying to cope. She does not have to make a statement for all of womankind right now, nor should we expect it.

Also--what do you guys think would happen if the roles were switched? A female leader/politician cheats on her husband. You think her man would stand next to her at that press conference?

1edyfirel

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @neuroticcharm: You're probably right. Which is why I apologized after I said I felt contempt. But I wanted to be honest.

sumac

]]> <![CDATA[Women On Silda Wall: "I'd Have Paraded In Front Of A Microphone With A Knife"]]> @Archetype: I like.

kristincredible

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