glamzonhobbitfeet

puredeadthingy

Wouldn't it just be better to try and teach things in several different ways so that all your students can maximize their understanding? Then no student is left out, they all get to see things through various methods, and maybe enhance their understanding even more.

JRae

margottt

noloversaurus

there's a surprising level of pressure for women to all become this very modal personality in an all-girls environment, it can be very anti-individual....

although i do demonstrate a feminist fearlessness to speak my mind in all my current coed college courses, and roll my eyes whenever some pretentious dude attempts to take over discussion.

southbeachriot

esshud

I went to co-ed schools all the way through grad school, and I live in NYC now, and I still think that.

Rooo sez BISH PLZ

Rooo sez BISH PLZ

Boys' schools on the other hand are awful and produce jerks who believe that since they have a penis all women should want to sleep them. Also, some of them like my brother turn out to be misogynists with rage issues. He basically treats me like a retard and if I dare offer advice he reacts angrily.

Erie

I went to a girl's school. It is the worst way of bringing someone up. To put them in a sterile environment devoid of half of the population that that person will encounter in their adult life, making the opposite sex an alien to them- it's so SO victorian and counter productive. You might get better grades, but you won't set them up for real life well at ALL.

Bryony

ListedMIA

elizabethfromabove

yikesalways

nardo218

Melissa

sequined

PetiteGal

It doesn't entirely desexualize the learning environment--helloo ladies who love ladies--but single-sex education certainly removes a lot of the bullshit that comes along with gender interaction. And for that, I am a big fan. It's not the right environment for everyone so I seriously doubt this will change the more traditional education model, but I hope it becomes more common.

Miss1565

antiquated

The ACLU opposes single-gender classes, citing Title IX. And separating genders tends to be expensive for public schools. As one poster pointed out, school boards see one teacher managing 26 kids as standard, not two teachers teaching 13.

The problem with comparing the educational experience of 8-year-olds Sally and Sam in one way is that there is not a control group of Sally and Sam being educated in a second way. The value of single-gender ed will likely remain measured by parents with the income to invest in it--and nobody wants to admit to a bad investment--than their kids who experience it.

If the present decline of the rate of male enrollment at colleges continues, the Sallys, at the they register, will have the places to themselves.

probationer

My college claims on their website (and it's probably true) that on average, they graduate more female physics majors per year in sheer number than any other institution besides Caltech and MIT (they average 9 majors a year). They also say that a woman who goes there and studies physics is 10 times more likely to go to graduate school than women who go to coed institutions.

starryeyedsuprise

Around the same time, doctors discovered a little thing called Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. I was diagnosed at age 5, in the mid-80s. My mother, a pharmacist, was skeptical of the idea of giving a kindergartener mind-altering drugs, so I was sans ritalin.

Even though I'm a chick, and am supposed to be able to sit quietly for hours, or be able to concentrate for a long time, those "boy-friendly" classes kept me focused in school, and probably saved my teachers' sanity.

I'm just saying there might be other mitigating circumstances aside from gender which influence the way kids learn, and to break it down as "boys do A and girls do B" might not be the best solution...

That_little_attention_whore

vivresavie17

titilayo

I went to an all-girls high school for five years, and it was okay, I guess. I think my problem with it wasn't related to gender, but to issues of class and status. I was glad to go to a co-ed school for the last two years of my secondary education.

titilayo

shananigans

I will say that it's a good idea for a low-income urban school. Or any school where there are high teen pregnancy rates. I think those girls need empowerment most of all.

vivresavie17

PopCultureSavant

HootieHoo

I attended an almost all girls school (they let boys in but only 3 came) and although yes, my social life suffered greatly and I hated it at the time, I feel now it was enormously beneficial. The focus and pace was so much better than in public schools and I seriously learned much more as a result.

Call me old-fashioned but school is about learning - not dating & mating, not clothes or popularity. Who cares if they like it - is it GOOD for them??

Back to why I didn't like that comment - being around girls and not being exposed constantly to horny boys made me vastly more confident of my own self and sexuality. It's something that I have found is very different from many of my peers and I'm very thankful for that.

washionfore

I will say that the single sex high school experience was beneficial for me academically. I was having a tendency in the junior high years to be looking more at my #1 Crush than focusing on the schoolwork. In high-school, not so much. The first 2 years of high school were a bit underwhelming socially when it came to the boys, but once I got my license and a part time job, there weren't any problems after that.

I never even considered an all female college because I was ready to be back with the boys again. It was quite weird to walk back into a classroom for the first time with boys.

I think it really depends on the person. Some people will do better in single-sex, some will thrive in co-ed. I'm glad I went single sex for high school. I never really had to worry what I looked like.

flozell78

If thats all there was to the "hostile" accusation its bullshit; I wouldn't have given a shit or else would have laughed too.

marie123

On one hand, I feel like I gained confidence from being in an all-girls environment, and the laissez-faire attitude toward dress (slept-in uniform skirts unzipped and hanging halfway off boxer-clad butts) and hygiene rocked.

On the other hand, I felt academically cheated at times: when it came time to donate, families that sent their daughters to the all-girls school and their sons to the all-guys school gave more to the guys' school. In order to take AP Euro and AP Bio, I went to the guys' school, where I kicked their butts while comparing their state of the art science facilities to our circa-1950 chem lab.

mistakeonthelake

I could not have loved my high school experience more. I came out of there with an extraordinary education, driven just as much by the incredible, caring, and demanding teachers as by my healthily competitive classmates.

No one cared how they looked, we spent entire semesters dissecting cats, fetal pigs, and eyeballs, and we boasted some of the top Division 1 athletic teams in the entire state.

Basically, we were the shit, and we had an awesome time partying with the boys on the weekends. I loved the separation of school and the rest of the nonsense that comes with being a teenager.

SusieT

JosephFinn

dakardame

nodoubt9203

tie_me_up

Sev

that said, I'd also worry that girls-only classes would become stereotyped for "girls interest" - which certainly doesn't apply to all girls! Not all girls are into decorating, makeup and boys. Some actually enjoy snakes, mud adn climbing walls.

Also, from personal experience, the girls that went to girls-only high schools had a *very* difficult time at my coed college. They seemed to either be frigid or slutty - they didn't know how to deal with men on a day-to-day basis. But GAH! I KNOW so many studies show that single-sex classes are good for girls - they speak up, they're not afraid to be perceived as smart...

bitchyolympian

Being exposed to girls in school was benefitial for me, I think. Sometimes it was distracting, yes, but balancing school/work obligations with personal strum und drang is what composes most of adult life.

There exists the suggestion among pro-segregationists in the article and in some comments here that, as a male, my presence in co-ed schools was inherently toxic to the girls around me. A high school friend of mine is working towards her PhD from an ivy league university. Am I to understand that had I and my male friends not been around during high school to bully and distract her, she would have had two or three doctorates by now?

cardboardbelt

Le Kangourou de Kataroo

I don't know if it would have made a difference with me - I didn't really spend a lot of time actively obsessing about boys (my diary is another story) because my self-image was all about being smart. I wanted the attention of boys but I didn't want to make myself uncomfortable to get that attention. I hated wearing makeup and skirts, so I didn't. I don't think that a single sex school would have changed much for me.

xay

rzabza

Pigeonholing gender is dangerous. Gender is a social construct, not a biological fact, no matter what Sax says. What happens to kids who defy "biological" interpretations of gender? Think of all the girls you knew in elementary school who refused to act like "girls" and insisted on playing with the boys, or the boys who only played with girls and didn't play sports. What happens to them in a single-sex environment?

I think a successful single-sex environment should try to erase gender constructs and make everything available to kids; sports, home-ec, watching the snake eat the rat, playing house. That probably won't happen in most single-sex schools right now, so I think the next best environment for kids is one that is co-ed. At least then they are exposed to everything and can choose!

HidingInCanada

That's almost exactly what I was going to say, I went to Leeds with loads of boys from Eton and they were genuinely insane in the way they interacted with girls. I mean they were all pretty much pyschotic anyhow. I'm a boy but I went mixed schools and I think it's so much better, I mean some of these people had literally never spoken to a girl apart from at some weird "dance".

Also I've noticed a tendency (albeit not one as extreme) in girls who went to single sex schools to assume that a boy's basic state is to be sinister and "weird". I've got friends who always assume boys are "being weird" if they're being shy or something (sometimes they are being weird of course).

I defintely think its better to go co-ed, and I think boys need to go to co-ed schools so they don't turn out like the deranged poshies I met at uni.

rollerasda

Also, single-sex education advocates don't advocate single-sex education for EVERYONE, but ask that it be treated as a legitimate option for some students. If you want to be in a co-ed class, no one's going to keep you from it, but if you want single-sex and don't have access to go to military school or don't want to send your child to Catholic school, you have a way to do it.

I, personally, went to co-ed schools, but I majored in art history, so even if there was a boy in my class, he wasn't interested in me and my vadge.

not.a.clever.name

Do you get smaller classes? Let's say there were two second grade classes at a school, each with 14 boys and 14 girls. You'll *STILL* have 28 kids per class if you split the kids up.

PetiteGal

Maria

raebaby

LuckyEmmie

cardboardbelt

That's a good point too, actually. Still--depending on the boys, I suppose, and the age of the students, I can't at least wonder if kids wouldn't benefit from single-sex ed for at least part of their elementary/middle school education.

@MoonJewel: That part--the actual "learning different STUFF"--is bullshit, I agree.

marie123

charlottebackson

The problem is, separate is not equal, and the second it comes down to between the boys and the girls in terms of money guess who's going to lose? Exactly.

And while yes, the patriarchy does tell you your job is to look good for boys, it's ultimately your decision to apply mascara rather than learn about the fall of the Roman Empire. "

It's worse than that though. Boys are disruptive and can be aggressive, not simply observers, and yes, at best, they are a distraction during school hours. It's a little more difficult than saying, "Turn off your hormones, ladies, don't give a shit about that cute guy in our English class or socializing." How can English compete with "cute boy X?"

To add to the chorus I benefited academically (and on some level socially) from going to an all-girl high school. Elementary school, there was about twice as many boys in the class as girls, and it SUCKED, especially for the teachers.

I don't know about the "learning differently" thing though, but what about this--why is it okay to say girls are generally more mature than boys in the same age group (it's not rule of thumb, but there's some truth to it), and then lump them into one class together and say to do otherwise is sexist? The boys benefit from the mix, but the girls may lose. That sucks!

I don't think all schools should be same-sex and I agree about the funding worries (THAT should be another real focus), but if it seems boys and girls benefit from having separate classes (and not all will), it deserves further attention.

marie123

The girls' stuff always sounds really sexist and boring to me as well.

I had the benefit of going to a women's college that was attached to a co-ed (formerly all-male) university. We had tremendous support from our administration and in our classes, but we could take classes across the street. It was a great combo.

SallyJ

ps - I have a turtle for a pet. His name is Sidney and he is better than a cat any day :)

Sukie in the Graveyard

My sister would have flourished at an all-girls school: she was boy-crazy and a piss-poor student because if it. her was on competing with the other girls for attention.

I went to an all-girls camp one summer and hated it: I found the girls boy-crazy and way too easy to beat in sports and academics. A co-ed environment was good for me because I relished beating the boys at everything.

ceejeemcbeegee

treecut...Grim Reaper of the forest

Side story: At my middle school, our "bully" would go around randomly hitting people with a rolled-up spiral notebook in the hallway between class. I was forever in fear of being whacked. Needless to say, this didn't exist at my all-girls school.

LilBusyBee

jammiriffic

Lulu82

I agree with those who say that the world is made of both genders, so the younger kids get taught that just because you're one or the other doesn't mean that you are really different, the better. Separating kids and actually teaching them different things is not the way to foster gender equality. It's the way to train both genders that boys and girls are so inherantly different that they can't ever be equal. I know that might not be what they want to say, but that's the message that they're giving. Sorry about the rant...

MoonJewel

More seriously, my friends and I were discussing this Saturday at dinner, and we (all ladies, all public high schools, one from a women's college) agreed that we would have been insulted by single-sex public education. As very competitive, driven learners, we would have thought the boys' classes were learning something better, while we just watched the menstruation film strip on repeat.

But it's an interesting concept, especially given the benefit to lower-income minority students. That little boy, Jacob, who liked his sweater with buttons, was so cute.

sarrible

second of all, (and marginally on-topic), i used to work for a non-profit that advocated for "girl-specific spaces" (their words) on the rationale that gender-specific (what IS that?) programming was better equipped to acknowledge girl's "experiential realities" and foster critical thinking, self-esteem, personal empowerment, etc etc. i used to run two after-school programs called "girls' club" that combined popular education with a feminist analysis and explored media literacy, arts-based activities, violence prevention, healthy sexuality, and anti-oppression. The girls came up with the rules for the space (like swearing's allowed but not at each other - remind you of anywhere?) and ensured that they were followed.

The rationale was that "research, with and for girls and young women, has indicated a connection exists between gendered spaces and programming as combative and preventative to the diverse nature of issues associated with growing up female. These gender-specific concerns include: self-esteem and body image; physical, emotional, sexual and mental health; eating disorders; isolation; girl-on-girl violence; racism and poverty; effects of mass media; emotional, physical and sexual violence; homophobia and gender identity; and sexism." (POWER Camp National)

I'm not of the school of thought that boys and girls should be schooled separately (so DIFFERENT!) but I think there's an argument for spaces within schools. We only had marginal attendance and the schools could not have been less accomodating, but every single one of my girls claimed they were grateful that the space existed, and that they were able to speak their minds, feel safe and accepted, and have their voices heard. And i knew they weren't getting a whole lot of feminism from anyone else. So.

BritneyCanadaWhore

beastybeatsy

What we really need is a shit ton more money spent on education in this country.

hubris

I would have stayed a public school teacher if it weren't for the inane NCLB paperwork and having 24-27 kids in my class. I had both crazy boys and crazy girls, and I don't think the solution was separate classrooms, but was to get them out of poverty and their insane home lives. But that's too expensive, right?

latertootie

AnnieGetYourFun

And honestly, high school is EASY. If you're so distracted that you're unable to deal with the typical high school curriculum, this is much more worrying than being distracted in the first place.

Gloria

That being said, I don't think the ciriculum need be any different for girls vs. guys. Let the girls see the snake eat the rats--they can take it and then some.

MakeMeSmile

AnnieGetYourFun

Jerseylicious

rah29

Lady Skittlehattington

Alara

Sukie in the Graveyard

teapartys_over

hystericalredhead

I would rather be divided based on interests and skill level... which I think they do at schools anyway - so, problem solved. I took advanced math courses and helped kids cheat in chemistry classes but then, I took the easiest english classes available. Where does that put me? In Drama, I wasn't even a cast member, I was crew - we built walls and dragged them across the stage.

I won't let anyone define my kids and their learning abilities simply by their gender. For all I know, my boys will probably prefer a softer spoken woman and my girls will probably hit other girls for snarking at them :) oh, a beautiful dream...

Sukie in the Graveyard

luchita

Lulu82

tetragami

CollegeCamel

AnnoyingFemaleLeadVoiceover

nodoubt9203

Antonella

rednrowdy

Single sex education isn't the right solution for everyone, but there are many for whom it is a huge positive. I would not be be as independent-minded or as curious had I not attended an all-girls high school. My educational experience had been co-ed up until then and I wasn't engaged in learning, I was ashamed of being smart, and I was turning into a recluse.

phrygian

Lulu82

Political Party Girl

but oh no, I wasn't public school educated. and I'm not bitter about that, either.

my knee-jerk reaction to gender-segregated classrooms is hell no, that's sexist, but if it means that classrooms will get smaller and students will get more individualized attention in their education then shit yeah, make it happen.

cupcakes is allergic to magic

So maybe it depends on the kid? And if the parents are proactive and won't let you buy mascara until prom rolls around?

AlmostZooey

Little Time Bomb

Also, the world is co-ed. Girls (and boys) will need to develop the confidence to share opinions in front of the opposite sex eventually anyway; why not all through school?

sequined

Leiakat

2. I got just as good exam grades as them, and I went a state school. And am a girl.

Its a broad generalisationI know, but I don't see what their education has given them to make up for all their bad points. They are not good people to be around.

ilikenoise: Russell Brand until I die.

[graphics8.nytimes.com]

cannotedit

There's more to life than good grades.

More importantly, LIFE is co-ed - therefore, school should prepare you for that.

Lulu82

A lot of this sort of stuff could probably be dealt with in other ways that would both teach kids self esteem (some all girl's classes, especially health and gym) and others where they were exposed to the opposite sex.

hamburgerhotdog

hubris

However, it is true that girls are targeted by boys who criticize their looks, etc. But rather than separating boys and girls or religiously applying mascara for acceptance and/or attention, lets start addressing harassment more aggressively within schools.

Catty Is Cumbersome

While some of these schools sound cool, I think there's a legitimate concern that some are just setting up environments where girls are expected to be prim and stereotypically girly while boys can be rowdy and have fun--especially since some girls will do better in a more active environment and some boys will do better in a calmer setting.

SVreader

ArtfulSlingerBARACKED THE VOTE

ineffable.me

theporchlife

Plus even though I liked the 'girly' subjects (art, English, history), to be denied the chance to watch snakes eat rats would be terribly cruel!

rah29

badmutha

Furthermore, I've read elsewhere that the benefits aren't even--that is, that girls get better grades at all-girls schools and boys get better grades in co-ed schools. Does anyone have more information on that?

sequined

Bianca_Cheri

cannotedit

Trashtastic is proud to be an American!!!!

Katxyz

TheFormerJuneBronson

If you can't learn to hold your own in grade school, or middle school, or high school you are TOAST in college.

hystericalredhead

I think that there's pretty good arguments on both sides, but something about regulating classroom temperatures and keeping delicate young things from snakes just reeks of biological determinism to me. Do not want!

trioxinaddict

@disgruntledcubemonkey: I think that with me, I feel more comfortable around the ladies and you can have a disagreement or a really sincere conversation with people of the same sex. I didn't do worse in co-ed classes. I was less engaged in those classes then, say, AP English of creative writing, with all girls except for one or two guys.

cannotedit

Eeva

BAngieB

nothanks

badmutha

Motown

ltlbbynthn

violetbeauregarde

I do think, though, that there has to be a combination of co-ed and single sex education. My friends who were in single-sex schools all the way up through high school and then came to my college were, in fact, ill-prepared for the real world. But once you've interacted with a middle or high school aged boy, you've basically got a sense of what they'll be like until their late 20s; no need to repeat the experience ad nauseum,

Titania

pros:
grooming is not important
you can stand in the middle of the hallways and shout "anybody got a tampon??"
the drama and bitchiness that occurs when guys and girls mingle doesn't take place during school

cons:
400 menstrual cycles all get in synch
everyone gets hypercompetitive about everything, from grades to the small population of boys who commonly associate with the school
bitchery, everywhere

I hated it, personally, but I can see how some people would like it.

CollegeCamel

I can see both sides of this, but I wonder if segregation is EVER a better idea. Do blacks learn better when they're with other blacks? Some probably do. Does that mean segregating schools was a good thing?

hubris

hamburgerhotdog

cannotedit

And while yes, the patriarchy does tell you your job is to look good for boys, it's ultimately your decision to apply mascara rather than learn about the fall of the Roman Empire.

Macloserboy