<![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight - Jezebel Comments]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight - Jezebel Comments]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @entonces: and LaComtesse:

I wasn't making an uneducated, blanket statement. I am Jewish, and went to a yeshiva for a year -- it was enough for me. I also work at a Jewish organization.
I am saying this because of my experience communicating with Chassidic men. They are creepy and many lack personal hygiene and all manners.

dashenbka

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @CorporateTool: I dunno... there are LOTS of women in wigs here in Jerusalem. Yes, orthodox is a general term, but I'm pretty sure she meant ultra orthodox.

nagumi

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @katastic: Yes, and it's brought us a great many wars too. I applaud religion for instilling a set of morals in individuals who would otherwise be hopeless, though.

Catty Is Cumbersome

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> isn't "dying to be thin" already a lifetime movie?

allypanda

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> Name-calling? Really? Not to mention, your comment doesn't really negate mine. Someone who throws out a blanket statement like "religion is evil" due to a problem that is rampant EVERYWHERE is wayyy oversimplifying, no matter what your specific opinions on religion may be. Not to mention, how is that any less close-minded than those who think non-believers are evil? It's the same kind of blanket generalization.

mutualcraze

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @Devonna: You rock so hard.

Rooo sez BISH PLZ

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> I stopped reading the posts, but I remember fondly upon a day when I left my boyfriend's place in Brooklyn on a Saturday morning and gave a teenage Hassid a boner.

noloversaurus

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @richcreamerybutter:

my comment about harsher standards was a generalization. but duder, it's not about fundamentalist/conservative sects in general! or about mormons! if this was a post about mormons it should still be a discussion about PEOPLE, about the pervasiveness of this issues, not a chance to say, WTF is wrong with the MORMONS? those CRAZY FUNDAMENTALISTS!

inchworm

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @inchworm: This is the problem. it is happening in this community because it happens in almost every community. not because there is a "why" to orthodox judaism or hasidism.

You took my quote out of context (please refer above), where I stated previously that this is indeed not an issue of religion, but was commenting in general about the behavior of fundamentalists/conservative sects. I never, ever implied that hypocrital behavior was exclusive to one group. If the article was about, let's say, Mormon body image, I would have argued just as vigorously.

this is not USEFUL, people. non-religious peeps assert even HARSHER standards on female beauty.

See, I'm agnostic, so should I be offended at this generization? It seems that "average" dudes who want a "hot" girl are always praying at football games and attend church regularly.

richcreamerybutter

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> So..anyone else harkening back to the Mormon thread a few months back??
We need guest contributers from each religion to answer all our questions, like our friend from Sephora does.

TheUptightMidwesterner

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> oh god, this sounds like a Lifetime move gone horribly, horribly wrong

Sticking It To The Man!

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @richcreamerybutter:
"If indeed this size 8 bullshit is going on within a community like this, then you really have to wonder why this is so. Since I once had religion in my life, I would logically assume that those who felt that felt they might be closer to God (Yahweh?) would be more likely to be tolerant of body sizes. I guess not."

This is the problem. it is happening in this community because it happens in almost every community. not because there is a "why" to orthodox judaism or hasidism. framing it as a jewish issue of any kind is 1) inaccurate (especially because orthodox judaism covers a BROAD range of life styles and beliefs, many of which are very supportive and affirming to women) and 2) does nothing other than spread bias.

this is not USEFUL, people. non-religious peeps assert even HARSHER standards on female beauty. what is it about HUMANITY that drives us to this? forget the jews. all this article illustrates is that it's more pervasive than we assume it is, that it's not all the media.

inchworm

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @braak:

here's my take.

these are crimes of HUMANITY. not JUDAISM.

and to come on here and single out a religion only propagates ignorance and bias. fine, let's have a discussion about how eating disorders are rampant across almost all societies, with or without the media. but to say, this is because of XYZ in this religion is ignorant and never useful.

remember this thread people? [jezebel.com]

same thing. this islamic girl in toronto was NOT KILLE because her father practiced islam. she was killed because he was fucking nuts and abusive. again, a problem with HUMANITY. with a PERSON. that thread also degenerated into a discussion of the "ills" of islam. which serves no purpose other than generating stereotypical fear of the Other.

and saying that you think that all religions are misogynistic doesn't excuse the fact that this essentially becomes a discussion about the inferiority of another society or religious group.

inchworm

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @LaComtesse: Please tell me you're kidding that religious upbringing is almost always detrimental. I grew up in a very Christian household, and though am not practicing now, the tenants of the faith, my parents adherence to them and the morals I was raised with made me a great person and I wouldn't trade it for the world. I personally know hundreds who would agree with me.

Cattivella

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @entonces: How many theologians do you know?

braak

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @entonces: And both of you are associating the traits with Judaism explicitly.

No, I'm not. I am revolted by ANY religious misogyny. I think that ANY man who identifies with religious fundamentalism and still trolls for women is a hypocrite. I say the same things about personal observations involving hardcore Christians. Sorry to offend you, but but it's a little odd the first time it happens at 2am on the street. If anything, I would LOVE the Hasidic women to be able to hang out in the same capacity as the men do. I don't believe this is an insult to an entire religion to say so.

If indeed this size 8 bullshit is going on within a community like this, then you really have to wonder why this is so. Since I once had religion in my life, I would logically assume that those who felt that felt they might be closer to God (Yahweh?) would be more likely to be tolerant of body sizes. I guess not.

I KNOW this has nothing to do with the Jewish religion itself, but rather some people's interpretation (no matter what religion). I feel like these arguments are constantly repeated...just substitute Catholicicm, Islam, Mormons, etc. I call gender inequality as I see it. Sometimes we do overlook misogyny to preserve religious and cultural sensitivity.

richcreamerybutter

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @AndSheWas: Same here! At first it was resentment of my religion for all the BS I was forced down as a Catholic. Then I noticed that, generally speaking, all religions in one way or another are used as tools to control woman. "Modern" times have just led some people to eschew the parts of their religions that are blatantly misogynistic and carry on with the rest.
I'm religion-free, and I don't really care what the rest of the people do with their faith. Live and let live- and have a good time while you're at it :)

Brigit

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> Back when I used to go to Weight Watchers meetings, there was an Orthodox Jewish woman there. She had, I think, 6 or 8 kids? And she had lost 100 pounds over the past year or two. But I don't think she was doing it to be a twig. I think it was because she must have been enormous.

Charity Froggenhall

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> Bigotry is bigotry ladies and it really impacts on people's lives. I suggest some of you examine your prejudices and how valid they are.

Dogtanian

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> Seriously, is there a quota on eating disorder posts that Jezebel has to fill? This is getting ridiculous. I come here to get away from that. I feel like I'm going to have to stop reading (which I don't want to do!) because these posts are majorly triggering.

alexysstylor

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @mutualcraze: Go back to Patriarchy 101 and start with the elementary-level texts.

Dumba**.

Rooo sez BISH PLZ

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @rednrowdy: Woooooooord! Woooooooord!!!

I say again, Woooooooord!!!!

Rooo sez BISH PLZ

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @Seeräuber Jenny: yes, many do. and some are drop-dead gorgeous. just like non-religious people.

zahava

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @braak: I wasn't actually talking about those commenters, as it happens, but if you can honestly read this thread and have it all be "noise" to you, well, lucky you. Suffice it to say if anyone were ever as ugly about theologians I'd do a lot better by you.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @PCPLNY: yes, the woman is supposed to be pleased, but no, that does not include oral. in fact, a man is not supposed to ever look at the woman's genitals.

zahava

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @HeatherNumber1 - You can touch the Torah when you're menstruating. That's another myth.

Michal_

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> Maybe they don't want to menstruate so they can touch the Torah whenever they want?

HeatherNumber1

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @entonces: I'm sorry, but this seems insane. First of all, I'm not twisting myself in circles. That syllogism that you quoted is what I was trying to say in the first place.

Second of all, you keep railing at me for talking about shit I don't know about--but now you want me to stand up for Jewishness, even though I don't know about it?

Which commenter was I supposed to denounce?

Is it tokyomonamour, with:

On another note: my first sighting of a gaggle of Hassidic boys in on the L train had my heart fluttering H-O-T. Are irish catholic blondes still taboo for them?

Well, I don't know anything about that. Maybe it bothers you, maybe it was true, how am I supposed to denounce that?

Was it tramputee with:

I grew up in an Ultra-Orthodox family/community, and I knew many girls who engaged in "disordered eating" and almost all had terrible body image issues. The one girl I knew who suffered from such severe bulimia she couldn't hide it was not given help, she was expelled from school for "making a spectacle of herself". I can't believe how lucky I am to have escaped from that world with my life.

That could be true! How can I denounce that? I don't know if it's true.

Was it TheGinTheCity with:

So it's not OK for Hasidic woman to be over size 8, but it is OK for the men to be grotesquely fat and take up two subway seats? (This observation is based solely on my experience of commuting in Brooklyn, but in no way am I impugning the entire community.)

She admits that this is neither an attack on the community, nor is it the result of accurate sampling; she has denounced herself already.

What about CorporateTool with:

5) Yeah, funny how chubby pale Jewish boys manage a "no fatties allowed" policy.

She claims to be an Orthodox Jew--I think I especially am supposed to cede knowledge on the subject to her, right?

For every claim that a person has made that may be false, there's been another person who has corrected it. Presumably, every person here making statements is better versed in the intracies of Jewish culture and religion than I am; how could I possibly effect a denunciation? And why should I effect a denunciation when you're already doing it? My own ill-formed opinions are just as likely to make things worse, which is why I restricted myself to making a comment on something that I knew about, and then strove to defend it when you called it ridiculous.

It is possible, I understand, that you consider Anti-Semitism like that found here to be pernicious and dangerous. It is possible that it is pernicious and dangerous. It all sounds like noise to me. There's nothing of interest to me in any of these statements.

I apologize. Clearly my lack of perspective has caused discord; this was a failure on my part, and I regret it.

braak

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @Dashrashi: I had friends who practiced this in college, and I forgot ALL the time. They told me it was fine, since it wasn't deliberate and they knew the practice was completely foreign to an italian catholic girl.

I usually remembered after I gave them a hug. Eek!

skittlbrau

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @fulana.de.tal: I do that constantly by accident also.@BOO_BOO_HOFF: Thank you. I was about to set off for Tel Aviv, And I'm not even practicing.@AnnieGetYourFun: How about a moratorium on any more stereotypes of Semites for the day.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @KnitSandwich: Actually, I remember being surprised that most Muslims I "dated" wanted a gal with a huge butt.

AnnieGetYourFun

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @fulana.de.tal: I mean, I routinely forget and hold out my hand, too. And I clearly know about it. Most people I've had this issue with are pretty gracious about it and just shake my hand, but a few will politely decline. I always feel like a dumbass, but, you know, they know it's not mainstream. I think they just hope no one thinks less of them because of it.

Dashrashi

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @entonces: and i agree that some posters on this thread have some 'splaining to do.

fulana.de.tal

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @entonces: Agreed. This thread mostly rehashes stereotypes, with errors too numerous to correct.

The original point -- some Orthodox women have eating disorders because of the demands of "arranged marriage" -- simply means that many Orthodox men are like many other men: no fatties, please.

BTW, the "arranged" marriages are not usually as arranged as it sounds. It usually means that the parents and/or a matchmaker (shadchan) get involved. The couple still makes the choice.

For whatever it's worth, keep in mind that this structured system keeps everyone's expectations clear, and that the divorce rate is much lower than in society as a whole. And not because the men won't give divorces, as some commenters said. Except for some very unusual cases, they need to give divorces to get remarried, too.

BOO_BOO_HOFF

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @Dashrashi: i was a nanny for an orthodox family in college. i recently ran into the dad and two of the kids--and i'm mortified that i hugged them ALL without thinking about the touching thing.

but they're used to having shiksas in the house (i'm not the only puerto rican catholic to have taken care of their kids), so hopefully he wasn't too offended.

fulana.de.tal

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @LaComtesse: I wish there were a Christian baby here...I would drink its blood TWO times, for spite.

@braak: Braak, you're twisting yourself in circles to basically say that "Religion is misogynistic=fundamentalist Judaism is very religious=fundamentalist Judaism must therefore be somewhat misogynistic=therefore, it is not odd that girls would respond by having eating disorders. I don't think anyone disagrees with you here. But an article about an interesting result of an expression of misogyny became a thread on which people devolved into this disgusting stream of anit-Semitism.

And as I said, I do not notice YOU standing up to denounce anything anyone said here at all. If you're just going to stand by, then you're the same to me.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @TheGintheCity: Holy shit, OK. Lovely. ANYWAY, one of the reasons Hasidic men are not Adonises is that Hasidism strongly emphasizes study, philosophy, the "life of the mind," if you will. Men are valued for intellect over appearance to the point that they pay almost no attention to their bodies at all. So yeah, it's not fair that women are supposed to be skinny, just as it's not really fair that men are supposed to be basically floating brains and subvert all physical urges and concerns.

AlannaBanana

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @LaComtesse: Aw, thank you! I especially should have been more meticulous b/c I have new orthodox female cousins who wear pants, did not have arranged marriages, have high powered jobs and don't cover their heads. When you write and research a post in 40 minutes, sometimes you gloss over details. Not an excuse, but an explanation at least.

Jessica

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @westvillagegirl: I know that this practice often seems offensive to people who don't know about it, as it implies that women are untouchable or whatever, but for what it's worth, women can't touch men, either. And it's not because "wimmin" are dirty, it's as a sign of respect for the woman (and for his wife). Touching is considered sexual, and so you're prohibited from touching a member of the opposite sex not your spouse. It often comes across as misogynistic because it usually comes up when an Orthodox man won't shake a woman's hand in a professional context. But if it were an Orthodox woman, she would refuse to shake a male client's hand.

You can get special dispensation in some circumstances, like if your job requires it, but it's fairly common in some Orthodox circles. Someone who practices it is known as Shomer Negiyah--it means Guarder of Touch.

And fyi, shidduchs are very often not full-on arranged marriages, where you just show up and get hitched. You get to meet the person and go on dates with them, and both can opt out, as far as I know. (My cousin is Lubavitch, 22, beautiful, and a size 10. It's actually been tough going for her, but she also doesn't take shit, which is scary to many, many guys of all cultures. So I think that's playing a role, too; it's not just her weight.)

Dashrashi

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> As a Cahavrist* my husband must have a penis of upwards of 10 inches, be a Mensa member, like cats, be an expert masseur, have written a novel, speak at least two languages fluently and be easily able to lift me up, oh and broad shoulders.

*It is a religion I have formed based on the money making ability of Scientology. I plan to coopt a celebrity to publicise it, I'm thinking Ryan Seacrest for that kind of manic ego that's always good for a cult. You join at level 1: Civilian Platform and you play €1,000 for each level - there are 567 levels in total before you become MegaGoldMonarch member. Any of you interested.?

mepo

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @entonces: Well, yes. It is a broad argument. I am describing generalities. In general, religious societies that are "more orthodox"--that adhere more strongly to archaic scripture--are more oppressive to women.

Does Judaism suffer from this? Of course. Does that mean that subsets within the general category of Judaism that are "more orthodox" tend to be more oppressive to women? I don't see why not. While I'll concede that the specific term Orthodox Jew is not one that necessarily describes a participant in a misogynist subset of society, I still haven't seen any argument from you that a strict adherence to the mitzvot isn't going to produce a society with misogynist principles.

Am I explicitly asssociating these characteristics with Judaism? Well, yes. Since, in general, orthodoxy leads to misogyny, and there are kinds of Judaism that practice strict orthodox, there must be kinds of Judaism that are misogynist. A true statement about a broad category is necessarily true for its member categories.

Given these general principles--which is how I manage expectations--I am not surprised that women in extremely religious Jewish communities sometimes suffer from eating disorders.

braak

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @Jessica: You're a good sort who, I know, meant one thing and said another. Much love.

LaComtesse

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> Damn, having been raised seriously Catholic, I have no idea what Barbie is doing. My Barbies never had scrolls, sure didn't pray, and felt no guilt rubbing up and down on Ken in the barbie pool. Barbie never, ever felt the throes of the C-guilt. Don't think any Catholics in my neck of the woods were starving themselves- all fat and southern and sweaty at mass.

On another note: my first sighting of a gaggle of Hassidic boys in on the L train had my heart fluttering H-O-T. Are irish catholic blondes still taboo for them?

tokyomonamour

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @kbridge: YEP. Icky.

Dashrashi

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> 1) Maybe Couture size 8, American size 2/4.
2) The wigs that they wear are actually sometimes nicer than some real hair I've seen sported around - and they range from about $2500 - $5000, nothing to sneeze at.
3) These comments are as varied as the observance of Orthodoxy.

musiczagat

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @entonces: Maybe they're all so miffed because their Christian babies were killed to make matzo.

@rednrowdy: We're married: I legally own him. At least his balls. And he's not going anywhere without those. (Good thing, too, because I dropped a bunch of weight: a curvacious chica could have found an in!) But trust me, he's not alone. Many a good man appreciates a lady rockin' the curves. Keep the faith!

@SheLaughs: Thanks! I love him too. Zaftig is a fantastic word.

LaComtesse

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @richcreamerybutter: Yes, rcb, that's what people who are stereotyping always say. I don't give a shit what your Jewish friends do. You're getting on a thread referring to people as "them", so you've lost. @braak: You're engaging in a completely broad, theoretical argument about people and a religion you know nothing about that dismisses the entire religion. And both of you are associating the traits with Judaism explicitly. I mean, is this hard? Please, don't confuse the religion with the individuals who practice it, especially when by your own admission you know nothing and no one.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @entonces:
This is an interesting topic. I wanted to read all the comments and respond. But the "I see Them on the train all the time, and I see Them in my hipster neighborhood, too, and I met one of Them this one time and he was gross, so that means They all are, plus They are fat and smelly" comments are fucking scaring me.

kbridge

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @Alohamaid:Sorry I was eating a mounds bar...I love you more!!!

angryblackgurl

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @JessicaLovejoy:
I thought of that, and it certainly goes to the issue of control.

@Seeräuber Jenny:
Just to clarify, I actually knew someone who refused to give his wife a Get; the man was a complete jerk.

I also think Mormons and any number of religious groups dress in a fashion as dowdy as that of many Orthodox Jewish women. Once again, it's always appeared to be a form of renunciation of the secular world.

Seeräuber Jenny

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @baa: Ugh, can't type. It's my husband's cousins I am talking about. Only black hats I know personally.

skittlbrau

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @zahava: I am aware that Jewish religiousness is not expressed by the degree of orthodoxy (or in the case of Hassidic Jews cultural norms) kept. However, I know the degree of orthodoxy adhered to is greater than that of the average Ultra-Orthodox community, yet they are not a member of a Hassidic community.

But this is coming from my husband, who is best described as culturally Jewish. In the same way I am culturally Catholic.

skittlbrau

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @Seeräuber Jenny: Hmmm. Nuns might have their own eating things, what with the whole history of fasting saints.

Jessica Hussein Lovejoy: BRB, getting Rahm'ed

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @MissSmithDrankYourVodka: let's just say he can occupy my territory any time.

helen

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> This is so true. I'm jewish, and half my family is Hassidic. A lot of my little cousins have had body image issues from a very young age. One of my cousins told me that the marriage selection process puts a lot of pressure on women. Basicall, that a girl needs to come from money, have gone to the best schools, and look like a supermodel to get married these days. It's the opposite of what these arranged marriages are "supposed" to be about.

CupcakeMonster

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @angryblackgurl: I love you, I honestly love you.

Alohamaid

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @braak: And, I got carried away, so that was four things, instead of two. Sorry.

braak

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @LaComtesse: Sorry for over-generalizing. I changed to "In some Orthodox Jewish sects..." It should be showing up as such now.

Jessica

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @entonces: Well, two things. In the first place, if you want to respond to people who are saying that Hasidic Jews are fat and trolling for women all the time, please, at least make that a separate paragraph from your response to me. Whether or not you intended it that way, it looks like you are accusing me of making statements like that, which I am not, nor would I, because that's silly.

In the second place, I think that there may be some confusion over the word "orthodox." Obviously, "Orthodox Jew" is a specific thing with a specific definition and connotation, but "orthodox," and the related ideas of "more orthodox" and "less orthodox" are something slightly different. My point is simply that when you consider the laws relating to family purity, sexuality, and menstruation in the Torah, you cannot argue that these are misogynist and systematically oppressive to women. Consequently, those practitioners of Judaism who are "more orthodox," meaning that they adhere more rigorously to those laws, must by consequence be participating in a society that is more misogynist than people who are "less orthodox," or who adhere to those laws less rigorously. It should therefore come as no surprise that women within that society suffer similar problems to women in any society.

In the third place, there are times when it seems like you perceive that my saying that certain forms of Judaism are misogynist means that I think that other groups are somehow less misogynist. This is not true, as it does not follow, either implicitly or explicitly.

In the fourth place, conversation would be completely irrelevant if we could only discuss those things which we had expereinced first hand. I will admit that experiential knowledge is no the same as theory, but I don't see why a lack of experience should prohibit the discussion of theory. I am now, as I have always been, amenable to change by argument, I would appreciate it if you would dispute with me accordingly.

braak

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @zahava:
Well, they are not succeeding. Many New York Orthodox Jewish women have a markedly, aggressively dowdy look to them that extends well beyond the wigs; it's the long skirts, the dark stockings, the hats. A lot of the girls wear long, ugly dark green skirts, which I assume is a common religious school uniform. You can spot them a mile off and I assume it is deliberate.

[Later] Actually, I remember reading an article by Naomi Wolf in which she discussed her Orthodox friend and the street dress was described as purposeful; the woman's attractiveness was to be reserved for her husband in the confines of their bedroom. How sexist is that? (Don't get me on the subject of Orthodox Jewish men who refuse to give their wives a Get -- a divorce recognized by the Orthodox community.)

I have to admit to thinking in the past that women in closed societies don't have the same pressures. Wrong.

Do Amish women have body dysmorphia issues? What about nuns?

Seeräuber Jenny

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @hollywoodenflames: but, let me guess, the women are perfectly able to provide the oral sex for the men?

meanjeanne

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @SheLaughs: well, consider yourself lucky. me? not so much.

rednrowdy

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @entonces: also, just going by personal experience.

richcreamerybutter

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @Political Party Girl: no, no you don't.

richcreamerybutter

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @bigtittycommittee: I still want to know the secret to their flawless skin.

@entonces: not sure if you're referring to me, but I have Orthodox friends as well so I'm aware of the differences. I mean, all of my Jewish female friends who live in this area don't even rent from the Hasids (and one who came from an Orthodox background still had major problems).

I can say I was rasied Catholic, but no longer practice. I also know that when the Opus Dei shit surfaces once in a while I assume people know this wasn't my experience (but I also don't care if people make generalizations). We have molesting priests, but that's also a complex problem.

richcreamerybutter

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @rednrowdy: I can assure you he's not. My current guy (for as long as he'll put up with my a@@) loves that I'm built "like a woman".

SheLaughs

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @Devonna: *high fives you* i'm right there with you sister.
@LaComtesse: hold on to him b/c according to my exhaustive and frustrating research, i think he may be the last one. seriously.

rednrowdy

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> This brings back memories of my 29 days @ Graduate's ED unit in Center City Philadelphia...1 of my fellow patients was this little Jewish lady named Hope who was a dead ringer for Joyce DeWitt. Her whole thing, besides being bulimic/anorexic, was that she needed to be allowed to fast for Yom Kippur. Maybe she was one of these Jew-anas.
Other memories: being in a psych hospital during the high holy days = GHOST TOWN!

Jason.Falkner

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @LaComtesse: I think I love your spouse.

Such a lovely word "zaftig".

SheLaughs

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @entonces: I'm with you on this. "Orthodox Jewish" is such a broad term that covers a wide variety of people.

SoleilMoonPie

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @charlottebackson: For sure. And much support your way on your recovery.

Miss Smith Drank Your Vodka

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @Political Party Girl: The titles were just the best. My sister reminded me of the series the other day and we were making up fake ones: I Love You But I'm Dying, So Much to Die For, etc.

the.bleach

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> But, but, but...covering up respects the woman! It's not about oppression or body control! It makes the women safer too! Yeah, right.

Gingerlime

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @CorporateTool: Can anyone explain "Liberal Modern Orthodox" to me? An acquaintance claims to have converted to such, and I have no idea what he's talking about. Is this an actual sect/movement/denomination?

kentuckienne

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @LaComtesse: Yeah. I'm glad the Reich is alive on well on Jezebel.

I want to go off the thread, but I can't...we worked up to Jews being smelly and bad in bed? When does cheap and greedy come up?

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @TheGintheCity: Ha! Do you take the Q train too?

SoleilMoonPie

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @Devonna: In a twist of irony, I once had a friend of mine who complained about "skinny bitch models." His exact words "Under a size 4, I got nothin' for ya."

When I asked my husband what physically first atttracted him to me, his reply, without a hesitation was "You were zaftig!" (I was a size 14 when we met.) That made me feel really amazing.

LaComtesse

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @the.bleach: @puppyciao: @NoInheritance: OMG! I, too, secretly wished to be struck by the cancer! Because the cancer girls always had these amazing boyfriends who were totally supportive and loving and who would shave their head in solidarity when the girl started chemo. The Six Months to Live series was totes my fav. Remember when she went to the summer camp for cancer patients then became a counselor, and one of the girls in her cabin had a glass eye, and even the cancer kids made fun of her? And the glass eye girl was a diver, but she lost her depth perception, so she had to overcome her fears and re-learn how to dive with just one eye, even though her parents were scared she'd misjudge distance, hit the board, and die!
(OK, I'm a total creeper now, but none of my friends ever read those! I thought I was the lone weirdo. Also, apologies to all for the run-on sentences!)

Political Party Girl

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @dashenbka: Wow. Blanket statements about personal hygiene of a sect are AWESOME!

LaComtesse

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> Size 8 is generous. Most of the men I know have a problem with women over a size 4. And this is why I'm single. Because men think I'm fat and I think they're assholes. I'm right.

Devonna

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @mwynn13: Perhaps a power thing, keeping the women dainty and tiny so the men feel big and strong?

Flackette is a Red State Elitist

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @omerhi: it's nice to know that there are some men out there who still find intelligence to be a good and sexy trait in women. my hope is that if you happen to be around a lot of little kids, pass on the "being smart is good" thing.

rednrowdy

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> and look at the goddamn men in this situation: god forbid their wife weigh more than 140lbs but themselves are unwashed, sweaty, unkempt, a lot of them are disgustingly overweight, rude, mentaly limited imbecils!
ech

dashenbka

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> I think that they should name the movie "Dying to Control Some Aspect of One's Own Life."

dayglo

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @braak: braak: I'm Catholic and even I know that there are different sects of Orthodox Judaism with different practices. Some of it depends on where your ancestors emmigrated from; some of it depends on which neighborhood you live in.

brendastarlet is on it

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @braak: All fundamentalism is repressive to women, everywhere. I'm not saying the MISOGYNY is a way of life. Orthodox Judaism is a complex system of beliefs that do not all fall into a systematic repression. You also clearly do not know any Orthodox Jews or how it's practiced today. I'd entertain the conversation with someone who did, and agree. But all this judgmental mishegos from a group of people that seem to be seizing on a random point they've observed on the subway is .... disgusting. I'm unclear how I'm more oppressed by a Hasid next to me than the cover of Maxim.

Or, to put it briefly, it's true when I say it, but not when you say it.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> My mom went to college in the south. She had to wear skirts that hit at or below the knee all through college (except on Saturdays between 9am and 5pm). Just saying, some of these seemingly off-the-wall customs aren't as far back in America's past as we sometimes think.

Political Party Girl

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @kierabs: Wanting attention, self-control, an identity, something to set you apart form everyone else.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

Flackette is a Red State Elitist

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @braak: awesome dude.

arodriguez.romero speaks java

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> I find this amazing, when I use be bad(back in the day...lol) and date married internet guys, I am a BBW (big black woman)and the guys that would show up 95% of the time were the Orthodox, and Hasidic(ughhhh). They loved a "BBW"..but were really lacking in the sexual prowess dept. These poor women are starving themselves for 2 minutes "tops" of "so" called pleasure.. My Jewish Sisters, I assure you that more fun would be derived from eating some delicious ice cream from "Cold Stone"!!

angryblackgurl

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> I am just having a hard time wrapping my head around what this all has to do with being Jewish. It's one thing to have a culture discovering they too are plagued by a pernicious problem. It's another to have a 100+ comment stream in which Orthodox Jews are portrayed as everything from oppressed victims to portly whoremongers.

I'm getting off this thread. It's distressing, and pretty disgusting.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @MissSmithDrankYourVodka: It's all in how you approach it. I'm a very religious Christian, and I'm also a feminist liberal Democrat environmental freak. My faith was integral to my recovery from anorexia. Religion's been nothing but a positive in my life.

charlottebackson

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @entonces: I guess I don't really understand what you're saying here. I mean, I get the insulting parts, so that's good. But what I'm not clear on is the distinction between--and, I guess I ought to be clear that I am aware of the varying degrees of "Orthodoxy" among practitioners of Judaism, and that certain sects, including that Hasidim, include a fair amount of Orthopraxis, so, no, I don't mean "all Orthodox Jews behave/believe such and such"--between how certain people come to their beliefs and choose to worship, and the complex social structures that govern their society. Are you suggesting that it's a coincidence that highly or extremely orthodox Jews have a society that is repressive to women and also practice and believe in a religion that suggests that women are inferior?

I'm also a little unclear why an orthopraxy that is "just a way of life" is somehow exempt from being misogynist. I mean, misogyny is a way of life; in all its forms, it is both an orthodoxis and an orthpraxis.

braak

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @Tramputee: I haven't read that one yet. He actually came to do a program at the Museum of Jewish Heritage and I had the chance to meet him and listen to him speak. He's hilarious. "Foreskin's Lament" apparently has some of the same stories in it as "Beware of God." Just as an FYI, his last name is "Auslander" (in case you go looking for the book, though I'd imagine it would come up in a search of "Foreskin" pretty quickly...).

LaComtesse

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @rednrowdy: I get where the comment's coming from, and there are guys who do that. But I, me, personally, can't stand stupidity. Wait, let me rephrase...I have no problem with people who are just legitimately lower on the IQ scale. If that's what you've got, work with that shit. What I absolutely detest are people who think showing intelligence is somehow unfeminine, or that acting stupid is some kind of sexy trait. ARGH!

Okay, done. :)

hubris

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> I really don't see how the fact that eating disorders exist in the relgious world translates to religion being evil.

mutualcraze

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @LaComtesse: No, I haven't yet, one of these days I have to pick it up, but I loved Hollander's short story collection, Beware of God, which totally has scenes from my childhood in it.

Tramputee

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> i always wondered why hassidic ladies all have such perfect hair. i feel like a dumbass.

bigtittycommittee

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> This is a pretty technical term here, but forgive me, I grew up in Connecticut in a hotbed of Jewishness: what about the pressure to be thin for a non-Orthodox, more sort of "everyday Jewish" girl? All my Jewish friends were the first to get periods and hips, and it stressed them out (especially in an area of the world where buttermilk was the preferred color for hair). I've always thought it was interesting how people are hesitant to describe the physical anamolies (perhaps, annoyances) Jewish girls in particular face, yet we can discuss J LO's booty on end just cuz she's Puerto Rican.

the.bleach

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @Kittenish: oh Hells yes, at least in the Hasidic community by my neighborhood they are often considerably portly. Not only that, they routinely hit the area bars trying to pick up hipster shiksas, and drive around in vans and wood-paneled station wagons asking girls on the street if there is a nearby motel, or where to get a massage. What really disturbs me is when some of my male acquaintances say shit like, "oh I had a beer and played baseball with a couple of them - they're ok." And then a few who try to expand their boundaries are treated like celebrities...which is fine except the women don't have that opportunity!!

From what I've observed, it would behoove the women to stay below a certain size, since it's much easier to push the carriage, carry the groceries, and gather the kids, wearing a dark, full-body outfit in 96 degrees while your husband walks a half block ahead of you. (Just kidding!)

richcreamerybutter

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> Re: religion, I try not to be a hater. But I can't get past most churchs' views of women as good for nothing but getting married and having kids. There is no place in most religions for women who don't want that.

I am feeling especially stabby on the subject of arranged marriage this week. I had to write a reaction paper about it for my class. It is so unfair and fundamentally wrong that any woman anywhere is having such basic rights as choosing the person they're going to spend their life with denied to them. Especially when they're forced into said marriage at a young age, so as to trap them before they understand their options.

Sure, we have a high divorce rate. But at least the ladies involved chose to be there and can leave when it gets bad. It is absolutely insane that anyone is starving themselves to avoid marriage or that those asshole prospective grooms are checking women's dress sizes before finding them acceptable. Or the dress sizes of their mothers! Gah. No one would ever consider doing such a thing to a man.

Hooplehead

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> mwynn13 - hair covering has nothing to do with making a woman look unattractive. Judaism has modesty laws, but the hair thing isn't categorized under that. Married women are required to keep their hair covered because in biblical times that's what married women did. It's not even a commandment in the Torah - just a one-sentence statement which made it clear that that was the practice. As a result, some communities advocate hats (so there's no doubt your hair is covered), some wigs (because that way no hair will accidentally show, but also because as long as you're observing the practice there's no need to suffer unduly by looking bad) and some communities say both (combination of the two reasons). There debate about gorgeous wigs is all about whether people will think you're not covering, NOT because you look good. Not that there aren't misogynistic Jews who make that argument about them, of course. The head-shaving thing is a Chassidic thing and it doesn't make any sense to me, especially in light of the Talmudic statements that women should look good for their husbands. But it's rare.

Michal_

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @Leiakat: Leikat...with all respect, you are losing me. "Always," does, in fact, mean "always". What's up there is incorrect. I don't think it's a CONSPIRACY OF UNTRUTH FOISTED UPON US, but it's wrong, and Jessica should correct it.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @helen: I'm a Lutheran and Bob is a Unitarian. It keeps things spicy.

Miss Smith Drank Your Vodka

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> This stuff is a great example of the problems I have with my own religion- because unlike in Christianity, where different sects are considered to be different religions, Jews are looked at as all being Jews no matter what kind of Jews we may be.
I'm a traditional Conservative Jew, and my dad is essentially modern Orthodox these days. And yet the same religion that allows both of us a lot of peace and happiness is connected to this? Too often I find that my feminism causes me to hate ultra-Orthodox Judaism, and that means I hate my own people.
Oy vey.

CollegeBookworm

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> "Married and middle-aged women are also susceptible to anorexia and bulimia, and are likely to pass their eating disorders on to their daughters." This is increasingly true everywhere, says the Independent. Apparently the pressure to "age beautifully" like Madonna or Sharon Stone has sent some women into a shame spiral of disordered eating.

i'm going to go out on a limb and say that most people with ED's had triggers that involved comments from older family members...who probably also have ED's. combine that with all the mag stories about which celebrity lost baby weight the fastest and hello captain obvious.

rednrowdy

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> Ok...i love this website i really do but this just really peeved me a lil. Some orthodox woman are indeed allowed birth control if their rabbi permits (which they do mot times). Very rarely do they shave their heads, hair is sensual and they feel that it should be reserved for the husband. And they DO NOT believe that going down on woman causes blindness!! Thats just absurd. One of the main principles in a marriage is that the woman has to be pleased before the man does. I.E. oral sex.
No i am not orthodox but i know many orthodox woman and have been taught well, just frustrated is all.
As far as eating disorders go...umm isn't that prevalent in EVERY society???

PCPLNY

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> This Wiki entry is fairly robust on the many different strains of Jewish faith and how they might or might not treat/view women: [en.wikipedia.org]

The term "Orthodox Jew" is very different than "Hasidic Jew" and has a lot more to do in practice of faith/study of theology. Hasidic Jews have more everyday cultural constructs that they adhere to.

the.bleach

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @mwynn13: the point is NOT to look unattractive! the point is to cover the head, because that is what they believe god wants them to do. the wig is actually mean to allow them to look attractive, so they don't feel weird when they are among the rest of society.

zahava

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @Tramputee: Have you read "Foreskin's Lament" yet? It's amazing and shows just how detrimental a religious upbringing can be (and almost always is).

LaComtesse

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @MissSmithDrankYourVodka: Love you too, and this blog!

talk2tehhand

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @braak: Thanks - I knew that didn't sound right, but I didn't feel like opening up another browser just to google it.

AndSheWas

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @the.bleach: oh my god, yes! the ones about leukemia were my favorites. i went through a period where all i did was read young adult books about girls struggling with leukemia. i wonder what that was about...

angelina jolie-laide

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @mwynn13: a good wig can cost thousands. it's insane.

LaComtesse

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @zahava: It is no a myth, it is just not as common as the article suggests. I've studied Orthodox Judaism as a Holocaust scholar, and there are recorded examples of this.

@entonces: Always doesn't mean always. She should have said 'when outside the home'.

Leiakat

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @zahava: And Christian!

westvillagegirl (exiled in chicago)

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @entonces: well, he's not jewish!

zahava

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @katastic: I usually say that faith and beliefs are great, and that established religion and its extra cannons, rules, etc are what can be harmful. Also, established religions'/churches constructions', or sometimes more appropriately - misconstruing - of religious principles leads to ... well crap and bullshit.

(I'm agreeing with you ... just divulging how I approach it).

Miss Smith Drank Your Vodka

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @braak: Braak, since all major religions spring from a culture of misogyny, they retain features of it. But you are so absolutely confusing a wider philosophical point with people's beliefs and how they worship and the complexities of the society they inhabit to a level of patronizing, repellent ignorance. Do you know any Orthodox women? I can't imagine how you could.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> this is not the explicit reason why I, an over-size-8 jew, am dating a palestinian. but it adds a nice touch.

helen

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> Okay, Jessica, this doesn't seem to be rooted in much knowledge of Orthodoxy at all. Love ya dearly but...

You're making very broad generalizations. Orthodox, for starters, can mean anything from Lubavitch living up in Kyrias Joel in a completely insular community in which residents almost never speaks anything but Yiddish to career women in pants suits who don't even cover their hair and feel free to wear bikinis.

Also, the assumption that modesty would protect one from body image and ideas of beauty is ridiculous. The region that, per capita, buys more make-up and hair dye than any other? The Middle East-- in spite of the burkhas.

LaComtesse

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> I grew up in an Ultra-Orthodox family/community, and I knew many girls who engaged in "disordered eating" and almost all had terrible body image issues. The one girl I knew who suffered from such severe bulimia she couldn't hide it was not given help, she was expelled from school for "making a spectacle of herself". I can't believe how lucky I am to have escaped from that world with my life.

Tramputee

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @baa: hassidic is not MORE religious than ultra-orthodox. it's just a different way of practicing. it is not on the top of a religious continuum, as it were.

zahava

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> A LOT of Orthodox women get treated for addiction to prescipton meds. They don't drink, but they lurv the Percoset, Vicodin and Xanax. Some of those ladies know a depth of unhappiness that I can only imagine. But, they won't talk to me, they refuse treatment, go home, whatevs...so I guess I will never know.

TheUptightMidwesterner

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @AndSheWas: The preferred term is "Theologian."

braak

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> So it's not OK for Hasidic woman to be over size 8, but it is OK for the men to be grotesquely fat and take up two subway seats? (This observation is based solely on my experience of commuting in Brooklyn, but in no way am I impugning the entire community.)

TheGintheCity

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> if that's the case I'd rather be fucking dykes...

anastasia beaverhousen

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @KnitSandwich: The shaved head is a leftover from the days when long-haired attractive women were in constant danger of rape by outsiders, or something, so the idea was to make yourself unattractive to potential rapists. And then it evolved into NOT shaving the head, but still wearing the godawful wigs over the real hair.

But my father had an Orthodox patient who had really gorgeous, long hair when she was single, and when she got married, she still had gorgeous long hair, so he asked her about this. Turned out she was wearing a really well-made wig- that looked as good as her own hair. Don't ask me what the heck purpose it served, since the whole point is to not look attractive. Most of the Orthodox women in my neighborhood have the same mousy brown pageboy ugliness.

So my question is, in a society that consciously tries to do away with any sort of attempt to make oneself look good in any way (have you seen the men? Just as bad, and not exactly hot bods) where does this emphasis on thinness come from?

mwynn13

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @Leiakat: they don't shave their heads. that is a myth. they want to look pretty for their husbands when the wigs come off, and a shaved head would not facilitate that.

zahava

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @katastic: I don't want to start a religious argument here, but I don't think it's shortsighted to denounce religion. And in fact, most religions DO seems to be inherently misogynistic. I don't think the people involved are evil beings, but the dogma they are brainwashed with prevents them from seeing that women are human beings.

But I'm no theologist, I don't even know if that's a word.

AndSheWas

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @zahava: Rami is Jordanian. Wow, I am the font of random knowledge today.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @Leiakat: Just look up there! I'm not being difficult.

"Married women must always cover their heads; "

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @omerhi: it's a dollar more than i had yesterday, so it's all good.

rednrowdy

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> Two things:

First, it's important not to get the Orthodox and Chassidic Jewish communities mixed up. While some Chassidic sects insist married women shave their heads, it is not standard Orthodox practice, or even the majority practice among Chassidim - only a handful of sects embrace that. Not that that makes it less ooky, but it's not what "most Orthodox women" do, by a long shot.

Second, there was a 2006 study at the University of Haifa which contradicts this idea [www.jpost.com] - finding that the more religious a girl was, the less likely to develop an eating disorder.

Sounds like a good p.r. job to plug a film (about a subject that's genuinely important), but not particularly fact-based in its scare tactics.

Michal_

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @rednrowdy: Yeah, I phrased it wrong. I meant to say in term of men in general. I was waiting for my work buddy to bring the coffee I evidently needed. :)

The Real JR

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @omerhi: ...and then they go after the hottest girl in the room who has the mind of a lampshade.

rednrowdy

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @brendastarlet: i doubt it. he is palestinian.

zahava

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @baa: You're talking about Hasids, and ultra- ultra-Orthodox Jews. There are many streams of Judaism. Jeez, don't you guys know any Orthodox Jews? They are out in the world, you know, all over the damn place.@katastic: THANK YOU KAT. Fucking hell.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @baa: That makes a lot of sense.

blackbirdfly

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> So are the men "allowed" to be fat fucks later on and the women have to deal with that? That's just WRONG.

Kittenish has gone to the dogs...

]]> <![CDATA[Author: Some Orthodox Men Want Their Brides Below A Size Eight]]> @entonces: It's a way of life founded on a religious structure that is perniciously misogynist. Not unlike