<![CDATA[In Defense of Depression - Jezebel Comments]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression - Jezebel Comments]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @livingdeadgirl: Thank you. Of course, it helps that I don't have a life and do all my retail therapy in bookstores.

Dalinae

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> You know what though? Most people aren't going to write the next great American novel, they're just going to be a wallowing irritation to their co-workers and friends. MEDICATTE YOURSELF AND STOP BEING A PAIN IN MY ASS!

Erin

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @MissSmithDrankyourVodka: Sign me up! Yes, I second that emotion!

ItchykooParker

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @Dalinae: You have excellent taste in books.

livingdeadgirl

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> The Newsweek article argues that being 10/10 for happiness is worse than being 8/10 for happiness because 8/10 people are wealthier and more well-educated than the 10/10ers. That is the worst argument against being happy I have ever read.

Being happy is actually underrated, not overrated, in modern life. Being satisfied with something in life is more of a taboo. We are trained to be unsatisfied from an early age, and to doubt other's satisfaction.

The problem is that kind of 50s advertising happiness that people clung to after the wars and depressions of the early century. It's way past tipping point time for that kind of happiness, we've all seen it for what it is, after all.

Perhaps the melancholics are medicating because we haven't been given the tools to find the other kind of happiness that we all know is out there.

TiaMaria

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @LadySkittlehattington: I absolutely loved that book. One of my favorites over the past few years.

I am also really, really loving "Eat Pray Love". Go ahead, start slinging the rocks and shooting the arrows. I like what I like.

ItchykooParker

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @J.D.regent: There's good fiction. It's just not advertised and praised as heavily as the Dan Brown crap, so it's more obscure. My personal favorites: "Wicked", "The Crimson Petal and the White" and "Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell" are every bit as beautiful and amazing as pre-1900's literature.

Dalinae

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @ManPurse: Right...Something that gets lost in all this talk about numbing ourselves with medication and tuning out sadness is that a lot of people are actually ill and are helped by the new medications that are around now. When did we get this notion that our brains aren't part of our bodies, just like our lungs or our livers? Depression--and I'm not talking about situational sadness over a breakup or the death of a family member--and other mood disorders are caused by chronic chemical imbalances that can be addressed with the medications we have now. There's nothing to be ashamed of here. Meds aren't some kind of cop out. People who take care of themselves this way should be applauded and encouraged. But there's a sense that "it's all in your head" and "you should just smile" or "get over it." Well, would you tell that to someone with diabetes or asthma? Yes, there is a cognitive behavioral component to mood that often needs work, too, but that shouldn't diminish the role that medication can play. Why not use all the tools? I guess I'm passionate about this because I have lost friends to suicide and the rate of suicide in the gay community is statistically a lot higher than it is in the general population. There's a lot of suffering out there and now we have some sophisticated medications that really help. Take care of yourselves!

lawyergay

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> When I'm depressed, I can't create. When the anti-depressants kicked in I was surprised to find that not only did I no longer want to just disappear but my creative urges came back. I was always under the (misguided) impression that my creativity stemmed from my depression. Even during the worst times I refused to get help because I thought that getting help would ruin my art and music. But it didn't. And now that I look back on it, I realize that the times when I was experiencing (severe) depression were the times when I was least creative.

phrygian

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> Interesting post. I've been on ZOloft for going on 11 years now and I'm finally paying attention to how I feel when I'm on and off it. When I'm on Zoloft, my sex drive plummets, I can't cry for the life of me, and nothing really makes me that anxious. It's freeing to not worry about anything, but I most definitely get frustrated about the sex drive, and even the 'not being able to cry' part has become very cumbersome.

There is a certain joy in being able to cry and let out the emotion. Staying in a middle plain feels good...but also feels very...stale as well.

I've been going off Zoloft (cold turkey) off and on. I go on when things get particularly stressful, but go back off when I feel I can handle things better. None of this is under the supervision of doctor--which I know isn't wise.

MakeMeSmile

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @shuffler: Exactly! One of my best friends was seeing a dr. who prescribed him all sorts of meds (for depression and ADD) and never actually made him come in for appt's - he'd just keep refilling the prescriptions for the same stuff with no check to see how my friend was doing, etc. Come to find out, my friend is actually bipolar, and the meds he was on (esp. for ADD) were making things WORSE not better, and the dr. had no f*ing clue. I'm not psychiatrist, but through the few psych classes I took in college, even I know that you don't prescribe serious meds like that without being under the regular care of a physician! It is truly sad the willingness to prescribe meds to "fix" people, without trying to really get to the bottom of the problem - like a band aid.

BeachyGirl

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @charlottebackson: YES. I still have feelings. Actually I have a broader range of feelings that when I was depressed and numb to everything.

Flackette is a Red State Elitist

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> Hey, I'm medicated and still given to melancholy outbursts of creativity. The difference is that I can actually see to type because I'm not crying so hard.

Flackette is a Red State Elitist

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> oh man..my best works are those who have tears on it and dramatic crazy writing..if I was never sad or if I had any emotions at all I couldnt do anything good at all. I chose unhappyness and creativeness!!

lurleen

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @whynotshesaid: We could also expand this thread by considering how some people (especially those who were depressed) have managed/manage to consciously seek and achieve happiness. I lean toward the idea that those who are most content have above average coping skills and are less likely to fixate on negative events in their daily lives. .

Catty Is Cumbersome

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @shuffler: Anciety=Anxiety

Catty Is Cumbersome

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @badenbaden: and, i just finished reading all the comments. So ignore my first two paragraphs - but would still be interested to know what kind of support works best for people when they're in a depressive state. I often don't know how to handle my friend (who I love and adore) when she's slipping away, especially considering she lives a couple hours away from me.

BadenBaden

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> As someone who has been afflicted with anxiety and mild depression the greater part of my life, I fully support the use of antidepressants when under the care of a psychiatrist. My concern is the number of primary care physicians who have regularly been prescribing these drugs over the past decade. Antideppressants are not for everyone (especially in cases of undiagnosed bipolar disorder) and it seems that people are often given unnecessarily high dosages. Instead of pills I opted for cognitive therapy and it made a huge difference in my mental state and the way I deal with my anciety and depression.

Catty Is Cumbersome

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @whynotshesaid: I'm with you. I can't really relate to this thread. Happy/content is just my default status; it always has been (which is why I understand how unhappiness can be someone else's default). Life sucks sometimes, I've lost people, had my heart broken, had some really horrible experiences that still keep me up at night sometimes - but overall, I find something to laugh at every day. And yeah, I'm really really happy.

And I, obviously, disagree with the notion some people have expressed here that if you're generally happy in life you must be stupid. One can be politically aware and active and have suffered hard times and still be mostly happy.

That said, I have no idea what it's like being on medication; no one in my family has ever had depression problems; and of all my friends, I know of only one who suffers from it. So I honestly feel for you all.

Actually - speaking of - for those of you who do suffer from depression, what makes you feel better? Is there something a friend can do that helps?

BadenBaden

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> i didn't discover that i had kind of always been depressed until i was diagnosed with it a few years ago. it was such a familiar feeling, i didn't realize that it was not necessarily "normal" or that i could feel better. i could remember that same guilt-like feeling (even when there was nothing to feel guilty about) from the age of 4 or 5. now, to some extent, i think that i was just feeling what a (almost) regular kid would feel in the crappy, unhappy, unstable home environment of parents constantly threatening divorce. it wasn't until they finally DID divorce that things made a little more sense. and being a "melancholy" person isn't necessarily a bad thing. it's just when it becomes too much and turns into all-out depression or it manifests itself into an eating disorder or addiction that you've really got a problem on your hands.
all that to say, i think anti-depressants are highly over prescribed for people who are going through the pain of something that is SUPPOSED to cause pain (i.e., loss, death). you need to feel those things. feeling it helps you to get over them. but there is a point at which it becomes dangerous and sometimes you need a little anti-depressant kick and hopefully it'll get you over the hump and then you can move on without them.

meanjeanne

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> Kay Redfield Jamison has studied the link between bipolar disorder and creativity in her book "Touched By Fire." I think it takes both ends of the spectrum, happiness and sadness to be truly productive.

More recently, though, she wrote a book called "Exuberance" that focuses on people who tend to be hypomanic and traces their highly productive and creative lives.

I suggest either of these books if anyone's interested in this subject.

Catty Is Cumbersome

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> there's a difference between treating a legitimate illness - i.e. chronic depression that impedes participating in basic activities, like feeding oneself and working - and a Brave New World style approach to medicating all "negative" feelings, fo sho. but we all medicate those feelings, regardless of if we use pharmaceuticals or not. food, cutting, exercise, movies...it's all distraction from the painful reality that life kind of sucks.

vonnegurl

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> My God, you are so right!!! I was always envious of happy, "normal" people because it takes so much less energy to get through life that way, but realize that they are so one-dimensional. Besides, what is "normal" anymore? I doubt I know anyone who hasn't been on anti-depressants, but I do live in the NYC area and we've all been a bit jumpy since 9/11. @JWest282:

JazzednJersey

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @TheFormerJuneBronson: I was going to try to articulate this, but you said it better. Depression is not the opposite of happiness, it is the opposite of being functional. I can have moments of happiness in a day or week, but still suffer from crushing pain and doubt and thoughts of suicide.

treecut...Grim Reaper of the forest

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> Also, I dated a guy who thought he to be miserable to be creative. So f---ing pretentious.

Tulipsaki

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @ManPurse: I agree. When I was in college and broke up with a guy, that sort of "depression" was good for churning out tons of probably awful poetry. Now that I am 30, my angst tends to manifest itself as extreme anxiety. This makes me doubt my ability to do anything, fearful of the future, physically ill. None of that is conducive to making goals and completing them.

treecut...Grim Reaper of the forest

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @principessa_85: I agree. I can't tell you how many people told me, when I mentioned that I took antidepressants,"Oh, I could never do that! I want to really be able to feel my feelings!" or something of that sort. I tell people that having major depression was like being blindfolded and being able to hear, but not see, horrible and terrifying things. The horrible things were my problems--depression was the blindfold. When the blindfold came off, I could deal with my problems because I had the objectivity and the energy to address them.

I understand concerns about prescribing ADs for people who don't really need them, but I fear that the backlash will keep people who really need them from getting them. If I hadn't taken my pills, I'd be dead now. I don't need them any more, and I don't take them when I feel only mild depression, but if I ever have a major episode again, I'm not going to play games with my life in order to wallow in the valleys of melancholy.

charlottebackson

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> I don't know if popping a pill will make you comfortably numb. Isn't that what weed is for?

Anyway, popping a pill can take the edge off for a person prone to anxiety and extreme blues. Taking a small dose of lexapro and an occasional .25 xanax makes my life go more smoothly and with less stress overall. Note that's "less stress", not "no stress". And when one's stress is unusually high, and doesn't respond to counseling, NLP or accupuncture, then go for the damn meds.

Tulipsaki

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> Henri de Motherlant wrote: "Happiness writes white, it does not appear on the page". I'm inclined to agree, but sometimes, you know, sadness writes fucking shit. First of all you have to drag yourself out of misery-induced torpor (read: bed), and get the energy to actually put pen to paper / fingers to keyboard, then you have to write. Most of the time, stuff I've written when sad is just... sad. The words are irrelevant- all that comes screaming out of the page is thick, gloopy sadness.
BUT, that's not to say that sadness doesn't help me create. Reflecting on sadness is where my best writing comes from (not saying I'm any good), or equally from chronicling the happiness that comes despite adversity or immediately after sadness. I suppose old Henri de M was right - happiness writes white, but he didn't say that if sadness provides the shadows, then happiness leaps from the page.

A book written in the last 15 years that I think will stand the test of time: The God of Small Things (Arundhati Roy).

Personally, I'm happiest when I'm aiming for being content rather than joyful. Finding the happiness in the small things, then suddenly taking a step back and realising that all the big things fell into place whilst I was concentrating on something else.

Betty Bush

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> I'm going to quote Denis Leary on this one:

"Happiness comes in small doses, folks. It's a cigarette, or a chocolate chip cookie, or a 5-second orgasm. You cum, you eat the cookie, you smoke the butt, you go to sleep, you get up in the morning and go to fucking work."

Go Like Hell Machine

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @Xylo:

word

Rummy_McGin

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @Algren: I was struggling with how to write my comment, but then I saw yours and I realized I didn't have to. You said everything I wanted, absolutely perfectly.

KitWisdom

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> I thank God every day antidepressants exist.

olivia720

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> There are some assertions in this article that cannot possibly be proven, and seem grossly over generalized. Happy people are less likely to care about politics??

I'm Bipolar and let me tell you: happiness rocks, depression sucks.

olivia720

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> i have to weigh in...i was extremely depressed but, because of pride, couldn't deal with a counselor...only after a significant amount of serious self reflection, laying off the drugs and getting on wellbutrin was i able to lose the 30 lbs i gained in law school and come back to "who i was". i'm still on the well-b but also still sort of, well, depressed. but it's ok...i can function and do the dishes and feel "normal" and get by...it's still difficult though, just not impossible.

milly76

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> Depression doesn't have to be debilitating, nor should it be clung to for its inspirational qualities.

1.) There are excellent medications for depression and bi-polar disorders

2.) You might feel like you are trapped in a cycle where you can only create when you are at your lowest, but once you are looking at your abilities for art, writing, design from a chiller, more zen perspective, you'll be freed from your own negative expectations.

Mazy K

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @htrodblder: Wheras if the person learns and accepts that depression is a lifelong battle, he or she can be on guard for the next assault.

True. But sometimes the waves of attack become wearing also. Yet we all have to die of soemthing.

tie_me_up

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> "if you're just sort of vaguely unhappy without being actually paralyzed with ennui, you tend to make more money, achieve greater career success, get more educated and pay more attention to politics because you're trying to not be unhappy."
Shit. Changing screen name now...

Political Party Girl

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> I've been miserable most of my life. Somehow, between therapy and--oddly--writing, in the past few years I've become relatively happy. It's a strange fucking sensation to be sure, and one I'm not as yet entirely accustomed to. I find it equally challenging to write when I'm sad and when I'm happy. Neither seems to affect my output, although I think the stuff I write when happy is actually--and again, oddly--better.

chelsea g summers

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> I guess that was inappropriate. I hadn't read the whole thing! Mumbles..kicks dirt...sorry.

SBJ

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> Is it horrible to wonder What if you're a smug, un-married married feminazi lesbian bonerkiller not prone to pill-popping, pretty bloody fucking happy, not entirely stupid, reasonably articulate, creative, talented, but stuck in a dead end job awaiting her GF's IPO in order to go back to school for writing?

I mean, it's not that bad, is it?

Nah.

SBJ

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @whynotshesaid: I could have written your post. Having trouble with depression is not antithetical to having a good life. I know I have a good life, and quite often, I am very happy. But I still have to work hard at being functional. And many people who aren't depressed are still never happy. The happiness vs. depression dichotomy is false. It's more like functional versus nonfunctional, for me.

TheFormerJuneBronson

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @lunanoire: The hell of it is that I have come to realize that when I'm concentrating, or thinking hard, I look angry. So people read me as angry when I'm just pondering, as I am wont to do. I'm very defensive about that (bwaha! Pretty soon, I am angry! Cause creates coincidence!). If people would bother to communicate instead of jumping to conclusions, we'd all be a lot happier.

TheFormerJuneBronson

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @MissSmithDrankyourVodka: I'm sure this has been thirded, fourthed, whatevered by now, but: Yes please!

deuteragonist

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @J.D.regent: Updike! I could read Rabbit Run (underline not available) as a teen and grasp so much of it! Brilliance.

bigleggedwoman

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @Cam/ron: The Mars Volta and the Eels, almost exclusively. I went through an extremely hard time during which I listened to an album by each of them, and I think it was instrumental in keeping me going.

Maybe I am missing the point here, but it seems like there's a big difference between being creative out of sadness or grief and then depression itself. I grieved when a family member died. My depression was a wholly different thing.

katekate is squared

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @whynotshesaid: No, you're not the only one who's not suffering some level of depression. I'm a pretty happy person (not chirpy, not faking it, and not into Anne Geddes). I would call it being optimistic more than happy. I've talked with my mother and sister a lot about this, because my dad and uncle both committed suicide and depression runs in his family, and my sister and I worry sometimes that there's something genetic that's going to bite us in the ass at some future point. But then we look at our outlook and worldview, and we both tend to think, whatever's wrong in our lives at that moment, that things will turn out ok. I tend to float along figuring everything will work itself out.
That is NOT to disparage anyone else or their depression or unhappiness, I'm just responding to some comments about not thinking anyone is happy by nature, and saying that I, myself, am, in general.

As far as creativity goes, I think (and I'm referring to creativity with the written word here, mostly) that the rules that apply to what's news sort of applies here: that "happy" is considered status quo and therefore isn't really news, and the correlation is that a creative story almost by definition requires conflict (and then resolution of that conflict)and you need some angst and understanding of angst to be able to create that conflict.

Nicorette

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @J.D.regent: "Arthur and George" was great. Cuz you know Julian Barnes doesn't touch the stuff.

Entonces is ironing your dumb ass

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @KarenWalker: couldn't agree more. I remember a point at which I was depressed enough to make beautiful crocheting projects, write lovely letters, and think up fantastical ideas. However, in recent days, I'm so far down the rabbit hole I find myself barely able to get out of bed.

new-tricks

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @TheFormerJuneBronson: I too have been told in the street by strangers to cheer up. I think unless I am smiling I just look mildly worried all the time. Bring on the frown lines.

Tessie

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @route52: Word, word, a thousand times word.

I've certainly had times of wonderfully tumultuous creative melancholy, you know, when my favorite activities were "Having A Lot of Feelings" and "Tearful Nighttime Walks." but I'm pretty sure that wasn't "depression." I'd reserve the word "depression" for the last few months, which I've spent on my couch in sweatpants, watching TV, hating my friends, and having the occasional unproductive breakdown. I've been living off a grant this entire time--a writing grant, to clarify, ha ha ha fucking ha--and I have written exactly: nothing. I can't even write a goddamn email! I have 28 new messages on my phone! I can't even believe I'm managing to write this comment right now!

So basically, I don't like this (nearly universal) conflation of "depression" and "sadness", and I'm dubious of anyone who tells me that this fucking inertial crapfest is good for my Art.

lalochezia

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> EEVA that was AMAZING! I laughed for like, ten minutes really loud. Totally agree.

HATERAIDE

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> Me, me, me, me, me, me, me.

Megan, what else you got?

telegramsam

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> I always thought that was such a profound line from Kurt Cobain: "I think I'm dumb ... or maybe just happy."

Trixie from Toronto

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @satori: meant to include you as well in my prior comment. long day today...

etvoila

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @Algren: eh, sometimes they're just flirting. but in any case, it's patronizing to tell someone else "to smile". you're right, your own smile works much better to get someone else to smile.

etvoila

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> "Implacable horniness" sounds like a phrase Jane Austen wishes she dared use.

I resent being told by terminally perky people to "cheer up...it's not that bad". Well, sometimes it IS bad and we need to process the emotions.

shellibears

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @whynotshesaid: I think that is the point I was trying to make, but failed to. Only, I have been struggling with feeling shitty for several years. The thing is, I remember sophomore year of high school I was incredibly happy, which was a welcome relief after an unhappy childhood. I seriously questioned why anyone would ever "want" to be unhappy. Unfortunately, that isn't a choice that we get to make....it almost seems like from the responses that we just view unhappiness as more raw, true, creative and even intellectual. I'm sorry, that's just bullshit. I just want to feel like I did sophomore year, yeah, I don't mind being sad after a breakup, or losing a job, but I want to get off the damn couch.

goldengirl11

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @Algren: hardly unattractive-- that made me smile.

it reminds me of advice I got from a friend. I had been bothered by the standard "how ARE you??" people consider a greeting. when I'm circling the bowl and trying to stay out of a true depression I have a real dread of having to respond to that--, especially when they KNOW I'm not doing all that well. my friend said I should get all animated and shout, "GREAT! I'M GOING GREAT!! I'VE NEVER FELT SO FUCKING GREAT IN MY WHOLE LIFE!" so far I haven't but just the thought of doing so chuffs me up a bit.

satori

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @TruculentandUnreliable: Yeah, what about people who can't get out of bed. I'm not productive when I can't even muster the energy or care enough about anything to get off the couch. My mother has schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, and I can definitely say that the myth of the glamorous, eccentric, mentally ill artist needs to die, soon. She's lucky to remember what bus to take to what doctor's appointment.

I feel like I have been seriously depressed on and off for the past 6 years, and I don't care what anyone says, I don't like it. The effect it's had on me hasn't been anything that's produced genius work, it makes me feel like I am 1/5 of the person I could be. I just don't given a shit.

The thing is, to some extent almost all of my friends, in our young 20's have been going through the same thing, so even if I hate it, it feels "normal." Even though everyone expects young women to be happy and smile a lot that, it just seems like that isn't reality. This has been a tumultuous time in my life, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't make me unique. I guess my point is that while we all love our Sylvia Plaths and John Nashes, a month of feeling blue is not enough to bring out the creative genius in most of us.

goldengirl11

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> I just wanted to chime in and agree with those who are making the point that antidepressants don't destroy creativity - DEPRESSION destroys creativity. I went from being a happy and productive and really successful college student to a miserable grad student who couldn't write a paper without having a panic attack or a breakdown. Finally I figured out that it isn't that I'm a bad lazy person, it's that I'm DEPRESSED, and I got help. I've been in therapy for a year and I just started on zoloft and though I haven't seen much of a difference yet (because it takes a few weeks to work) I have hope that it will help. At this point I think any decrease in sex drive will be made up for by an increase in confidence.

Here's the thing - sure, antidepressants are overprescribed, exercise and cognitive behavioral therapy are very effective, if we mistake sadness for depression we will miss out on a lot of human experience and beauty. But there's a difference between "I'm sad today" and "I don't want to get out of bed, ever." I haven't been able to enjoy writing, something that used to make me so happy, for years now. So while we shouldn't mistake sadness for depression we also shouldn't mistake depression for anything resembling creativity. Because it's the opposite of creativity, much to my heartbreak.

route52

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @dosido: Thank you. Beautifully stated.

Algren

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> The problem with any "backlash" is that it doesn't take th middle ground into consideration. A lot of us out here are on antidepressants, mood stabilizers, and new-gen antipsychotics. We're not on them because we have the emotional equivalent of a pesky hangnail. We take the meds because without them we would be dead by our own hands or because of terrible decisions made under the influence of malign brain chemistry.

God, people. Balance, please.

♥ dosido Hussein McKamy☮

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @satori: I totally agree with you. I have also noticed that most of the time, it's a man who is asking me to smile. And it's always a stranger on the street who will say, "smile, it's not that bad." How the hell does he know that? One time when, when that happened to me, I said to the guy, "actually it is. I just buried my father." Of course this was a lie, but his ignorance outraged me to the point in which all I wanted to do was embarrass him. Unattractive of me, yes. But never the less, it felt good.

Algren

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> I think a lot of people who have never actually suffered for major depression do not actually understand how medication helps. Anti-depressants do not stop you from feeling emotions. I take anti-depressants and am still filled with anxious and unhappy moments but I am able to function. While having an episode of depression I have tried to kill myself, cut/hurt myself and not be able to move. This is not a creative state! A few times I have listened to the falsehood that anti-depressants prevent creativity and have ended up in the hospital. I understand in America anti-depressants are sometimes over prescribed (I do not really know if this is a fact). I am from Canada and here you have to meet the criteria for major depressive disorder, which is, much more than sadness and anxiety (usually you have to have cut yourself or attempted suicide/have ideation).

If you do not have major depressive disorder there is no reason to go on anti-depressants. But if you have been diagnosed and have a history of mental illness please do not go off your medication because of posts like this. If you decide to go off your meds please do it slowly with a doctor's help because there are real dangers! You use the example of Vincent Van Gough without really knowing that when he was at his most severe he was able to paint! We also have to remember the man died of depression depriving the world of great art!

principessa_85

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> I automatically consider anyone who tell me to "smile" to be insufferably stupid or self-centered. it reminds me of the allegory where the sun and wind have a contest to get the man to take off his coat.

when someone tells me to smile I interpret that as "you're not okay; you disturb me. now do something to make me feel better." if someone gives me a generous smile I smile back. they did something for ME and I respond in kind(ness).

satori

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @Lymed: I'm sorry if I came across like I was snapping. Totes not my intention. I do see what you and eeva mean, though.

whynotshesaid

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @eeva: See what I said above. I guess it gets a little old hearing about how boring and vacant and Anne-Geddes-loving those of us who are happy with our lives are, like we lack emotional depth or something equally ridiculous. And besides, I almost never hear people say they are happy with their lives. Not just here but anywhere. Everyone's always bitching about something or other. So maybe what we need is a thread where people can talk about being happy/content?

whynotshesaid

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @whynotshesaid: I didn't meant to sound like I was reprimanding you, just explaining why I didn't say something more positive.

Lymed

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @MissSmithDrankyourVodka: Yes please! Or aye, or thirded, or whatever. Basically, I approve your message.

@twaddle: Unluckily, I'd say. Such a travesty of all that is good and artsy seems likely to have a detrimental effect on fertility. Maybe you should write a strongly-worded letter to the clinic.

@whynotshesaid: Of course you're not the only non-depressed person here. But perhaps the others decided that a thread where people are sharing their own experiences of depression would not be the best place to talk about how un-depressed they, personally, are?

Eeva

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @Lymed: I get that. But at the same time, the OP was more about feeling down/feeling happy, and less about clinical depression. Of course, as often happens in threads like this, it did turn to clinical depression, so I guess I probably should have just done as you did and kept my mouth shut, huh?

whynotshesaid

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> Don't take my blues away.

Endy

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @meaverly: Um, I'm not sure if you are joking. I really really really hope you are because you just made me want to stab a fork into my wrist.

Algren

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> I've never even met anyone who thinks that taking pills will solve all your problems. Honestly, who are these people?

meaverly

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @whynotshesaid: You are not the only person. But when people are posting about their experiences with depression, I don't want to post about how happy I am.

Lymed

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> Also, none of what I said applies to people with clinical depression and chemical imbalances and stuff. That stuff is a totally different animal from your run-of-the-mill blues.

whynotshesaid

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> Dude. Am I seriously the only person on this site who is not grumpy/miserable/depressed/whatever all or most of the time? I mean, don't get me wrong - I have my shitty days. In fact, today was supremely shitty, as I had to find myself an attorney so I could take my ex back to court. I cried and it sucked, but whatever. It happens. You cry, you drink some beer, you listen to Elliott Smith and then you move on.

For the most part, however, I love my life, despite the fact that I have no money and a pile of debt. I'm excited to wake up each day, I'm usually in a good mood and I might be bitchy sometimes, but it's usually in a fun way, not in a mean way. I'm not obsessed with material stuff, although I am grateful for what I've got, and I highly value my relationships, from the casual acquaintance to the super-intimate ones. It's a very Buddhist lifestyle, if you will.

And no, I'm not uncreative or boring or saccarhine or chirpy or any of the weird insinuations I've seen in this thread. And I fucking HATE ANNE GEDDES so don't even start on that. Seriously, sometimes I get the feeling that happiness or contentment is seen as some sort of personality negative by a lot of people, in which case it's no surprise we are so unhappy as a society. (Although really, I tend to blame that more on the consumerist mentality that keeps us working shitty, high-stress jobs so we can afford a bunch of crap we don't need and a social atmosphere that is deeply invested in making sure we all feel like shit about ourselves.)

whynotshesaid

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @Seeräuber Jenny: Agreed. We build these myths around tortured people, like Sylvia Plath, and it's very easy to romanticize that life - full of passion and pain.

I know about The Bridge, my parents watched it. I couldn't, so I had them give me a synopsis. The project itself didn't bother me, but I was highly disturbed by what I was told.

Archetype

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @TheFormerJuneBronson:

Agreed. Why do we have to smile all the t ime? To show others that we mean no harm? A "straight line" face is NOT the same as a frowny face. Why do we have to smile all day just to make other ppl feel better about themselves?

lunanoire

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> I was in Amsterdam in December and I spent the day in the Van Gough museum. You can see his decent into madness. On the other hand the paintings are the most beautiful things I've ever seen.

I love my gray clouds that follow me, it builds character.

adropp

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @leaderbean:Yours is the kind of depression I have experienced too. I love the idea of romantic melancholy, but in reality the experience I have had is one of being laid out, completely detached, unmotivated, and the very opposite of creative. For me, medication didn't make me shiny & happy, it just made me functional.

zebrasocks

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @Miss_Sarah: My 4th/5th grade teacher told me if I smiled more I might have friends. Grrr.

Lymed

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @Xylo: Right on, Xylo. I think the doctor they are quoting is talking about "marginally depressed" people, but if folks on the thread are going to cite Van Gogh or Hemingway as examples, they sure as shooting aren't talking about "marginal" depression. Let's not forget that both Hemingway and Van Gogh were suicides, which speaks to more that a little bout with the "blues."

The thing that really gets me about this whole "defense of depression" discussion, which comes up every few years to tempt me like a sticky-delicious candy Eden apple, is that it plays into the hands of the secret fears of those who are really stuck with their meds. Let me be the first to say, I would LOVE to toss all $250 per month of my crazy meds and start writing like I did when I was unmedicated. I fantasize about it. Heck, sometimes I even stop the damned pills and have a blissful writing vacation until I start feeling kind of paranoid and exhausted and shower-phobic. Thing is, the end result will be me thinking about killing myself all the time, until I scare the small rational Lucy still buried somewhere in there and I have to go get some help.

It isn't fun. And it isn't a choice.

Lucymysweet

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @persephone: I did manage to nab some Grumpy Bear merch when the revival first started! Nothing better than cuddling a Grumpy Bear and eating ice cream on a bad day :)

Miss.Sarah

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> I had to spend all of grades 5 and 6 with a teacher who continually singled me out for not smiling. No wonder I was suicidal by grade 7.
Seriously, I understand that sometimes seeing a smile makes you feel better but running around telling people you don't know to smile is just stupid. If a stranger makes me smile it's because they just smiled at me for no reason or maybe their kid is doing something cute and funny or they dressed their chihuahua in a bee suit or something.
I get a lot of flack for "being negative" and always finding the bad side of things. My family and friends assume I do this for fun or something, but I seriously cannot think in any other way. I want to change, I want to feel drive/motivation, I want to WANT something so bad that I can work for it without complaining. Instead I just feel empty most of the time and crippling sadness the rest. Drugs make it worse, perhaps because the people I look to for support seem to really look down on me when I've tried Wellbutrin or Effexor to try and get things under wraps.
I felt the best when I worked at a gym as a receptionist. I got pressured into eating properly and working out and somehow that seemed to make a difference.
People need to stop making us feel guilty for a condition we can't fight on our own and certainly didn't wish for. I think the support of one good friend makes more of a difference than all the "smiles" in the world.

Miss.Sarah

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @Archetype:
Sort of related: Last year I saw a documentary called, I think, "The Bridge." It was about people who took their lives by jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge. I was hoping it would give me some insight into suicide, but it really didn't. Unfortunately, it was all-too-clear why a lot of the people had chosen to kill themselves: They had problems, extremely serious problems, psychological, personal, financial, and not enough help. Even someone who had survived the fall and supposedly had an epiphany about the value of life on the way down was still having serious problems.

A lot of people are in terrible pain and a call to the suicide hotline or some therapy are not going to save them. There's nothing at all romantic about suicide.

Seeräuber Jenny

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @MissSmithDrankyourVodka: Oh, we totally need this. I don't read anything until someone else says it's worth my time beforehand. As long as that someone is not Oprah.

Lady Skittlehattington

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @Magz: "I worry a little... about the ease & social acceptance...to just let those Docs drop a Happy Pill on you/us."

EXACTLY! Life is not about being placidly happy. It's a roller coaster, baby, not a high plateau. Revel in the mountain tops and wallow in the valleys!

sjct

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> I was diagnosed with Bi-Polar disorder 10 years ago and was treated for major Depression for 10 years prior to that. I work in the arts and I can tell you that after two suicide attempts, three hospitalizations, about 25 years worth of debilitating highs and lows, I will keep my meds. And contrary to what many people appear to think, I am twice as creative and productive on my meds. The medication doesn't just suddenly make me "happy." No antidepressant or mood stabilizer does that. Instead, it gives my brain the neurotransmitters that I've been missing most of my life and balance those that are in disarray. These medications are not "happy pills." They work in the same line of thinking that insulin might work for a diabetic. I agree that meds are over-prescribed, especially for young people, but I think it's very important to know that it's not as if they change a person's emotions. They just make the brain function well enough so that people with disorders such as mine can face those day-to-day feelings.

Algren

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @sjct: I think what you're defining is the difference between being happy and being functional. It's important. I do believe that some people really are happy to be miserable, because, as I said before, it gets them something that they want from people. But an unhappy person can still be functional, i.e. not being needy to other people, not being a drain on the system, working well at a job, etc. I have found that sometimes doing precedes feeling. If I do things that I know--not necessarily feel--will make me happy eventually, how I feel about doing them isn't as important as the doing. It's exactly what people who like exercise say about exercising--that they don't always feel like doing it, but know they'll feel better if they do. The difference, of course, is that I believe this about nearly every area of my life but exercise.

TheFormerJuneBronson

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> I don't know many people who AREN'T depressed. Look around people...the world is an awful place full of shitty people. I'm suspicious of people who are shiny and happy with all the bad shit that occurs on this earth every day.

But hey, maybe I'm in the minority here...I've been depressed off and on my entire life per my therapist and I'm just now realizing it.

I've been on Prozac for the last few months but even with it I'm just a naturally pissed off, cynical, sarcastic, eye-rolling bitch who swears a lot.

Prozac just makes me cry less and helps me to function and deal with the fools of the world a little better.

Chocolate Sex Bunny

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @MissSmithDrankyourVodka: That sounds awesome. I would be of little contributive value since I am always behind on books I mean to read (for example, I'm finally finishing His Dark Materials trilogy and next up is, um, Atonement) but would love to hear what people have to say.

rocknrollunicorn

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @MissSmithDrankyourVodka: Why would we need book suggestions on Jezebel when Oprah has a book club?

Lymed

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> I agree that depression and sadness have their purpose (as do bitterness, anger, and even envy), but the article had a major definitional problem: It didn't explain what was meant by "happiness." Properly defined, I would think that happiness is not something of which one should be "wary." Contentedness, perhaps. Ditto complacency.

I once saw an interview with Leonard Bernstein (who suffered from depression) in which he said that depression may provide creative inspiration, but that people don't create while in the depths of depression -- they're too disabled by it. It's when they recover that they have the energy to work.

That comports with what I've seen.

Seeräuber Jenny

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> i hate being told to smile.

i will not smile, i am not happy.

and i'm ok with it.

wedropscience

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> Sweet Caroline and Nina Simone
Ann Geddes - ha!

pizza

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @eeva: There was such a collaborative work (Anne Geddes, Celine Dion) in the office waiting room of a fertility clinic that I went tofor IUI treatments. I contemplated burning it, but luckily (un?) had no incendiary materials on me at the time.

Twaddle

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> Expecting to be happy all the time is a delusion that crept into our culture after WWII. It's ridiculously unrealistic. Humans simply aren't designed to be happy most of the time. Happiness is a momentary state not a condition that can be sustained. One would have to be an idiot to be happy all the time, completely unaware of the misfortunes, hardships and plain bad luck that rain down upon us every day.

On the other hand, I don't think people should walk among others sullen-faced, spreading misery and despair. Even during the worst moments of our lives, we can choose to act upbeat. I have often pretended to be happy and then discovered I truly felt that way. Yes, simply smiling can make you feel better; it's some kind of chemical trick our bodies can play on our brains.

sjct

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @exelizabeth: @LadySkittlehattington: @eeva: @J.D.Regent:

I nominate a book suggestion post.forum.thingy here on Jezebel.

I love the YA review / flashback we've been having on here, and would really like to hear recommendations on new stuff. Someone once mentioned What's the What on here, and that was an awesome read I picked up because of it.

Not sure my nomination does much, but anyone second or third it?

Miss Smith Drank Your Vodka

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @livingdeadgirl: something to think about...some therapists will charge on a sliding scale, i.e. $50 vs.$250 per session, depending on your circumstances, and if they're willing to negotiate. who knew? i have insurance but it's not covered.

etvoila

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @TheFormerJuneBronson: well said.

etvoila

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> Turn up the Nina.

aspiringexpatriate

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> I recently started taking pills for my anxiety. After a lifetime as a seriously anxious/mildly obsessive-complusive person and having a couple of anxiety attacks come out of thin air in the past year, it's been a great relief. And it didn't make me a more ambitious or creative person to live with the anxiety. It made me a miserable and fearful person.
And I second, third, whatever all the people saying it hasn't made them happy - or numb - to take anti-depressants. It's mainly brought some peace. I'm definately still me.
But my perspecive on this has definately changed since entering my thirties and having children. I don't have time to waste on anxiety.
When I was 20 - I guess I thought the torture made me feel like I was really in touch with life.

ManPurse

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> I also have to throw out the titles "The World to Come" by Dara Horn, and the very fun YA title/series "Uglies," as suggested reading. That is all.

MissKittyFantastico

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @livingdeadgirl: Wow, you're the first non-music critic I've known who has actually heard of Night Ripper.

Cam/ron

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @J.D.regent: But how much amazing fiction has ever been written?

You've got the whole cannon of 2000 years of literature behind you; yeah, there are only a select number of gems in the last decade an a half, but they're there. Muriel Spark was up until her death in 2006; Michael Chabon has written some amazing stuff; I'm reading "Atonement" and I have to say it's blowing me away; "The Interpreter of Maladies" is a stunning collection; Alice Munro has a certain timelessness; the "His Dark Materials" series is "A Wrinkle in Time" for our era. I don't read that much uber contemporary fiction, and I am a HUGE book snob, but those are just a few I can name off the top of my head.

And a lot of these have been made into movies, which supposedly "ruins" them for people, but I think that's baloney.

exelizabeth

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @Xylo:

Van Gogh killed himself because he hated himself, he thought everyone else hated him and he was always poverty stricken. It's easy for people nowadays to gloss over his existence and wax rapturously over his paintings, but I also wouldn't wish that poor man's life on anyone.

Exactly.

Archetype

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @Lymed: yeah, that comment wasn't in response to your recommendation. just in general. thanks again. also, i'm obviously exaggerating and i appreciate everyone's recommendations.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @Xylo: I'm well aware it's not contagious. First of all, I don't think we're all talking about depression alone here, and as someone else pointed out, people experience it at varying levels. When someone is completely functional but thoroughly negative, and you live with that person, it affects you. And if that person refuses to do anything about it and explore the idea of getting help, it's totally inconsiderate.

rocknrollunicorn

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> Was anyone else pissed off that Grumpy Bear is conspicuously missing in all this 80s nostalgia/revival? Like, kids aren't even allowed to be grumpy anymore?

persephone

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @Cam/ron: From the current "reveling in depression" playlist: Beck (anything from Sea Change, esp. "Guess I'm Doing Fine" and "Already Dead"); Of Montreal ("The Past is a Grotesque Animal"); Cat Power ("Moonshiner" and "Names"); Sufjan Stevens ("Casimir Pulaski Day"); a couple of oldies but goodies (Skinny Puppy's "Spasmolytic" and The Cure's "100 Years") and the incomparably weird "Holiday Time" by Hildegard Knef.

From the "cheer the hell up already" playlist: Daft Punk ("Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger"), Eminem ("Lose Yourself") and anything off Girl Talk's Night Ripper or Beck's Midnite Vultures.

@rocknrollunicorn: Not to make you stabby, but I've actually found that being on antidepressants makes me feel waaay more suicide-prone (maybe not thinking of it as often, but more likely to consider it a rational and quite good idea), so I'm just going to be an unmedicated cranky bitch 'til, y'know, I get some health insurance that actually covers random unnecessary things like therapy. Yeah, that's totally going to happen.

livingdeadgirl

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> Uhh Yup!

Hey Fellow Gal-Jezzes.. at the (very slight) risk of pissing you off, allow me to speak from my annals of age & maybe wisdom. I'd remind you that to me, most of you are very dewy-fresh very Young women, and the whole subject of femininity & depression seems to take a fair amount of time to assimilate, yanno?

Growing up IS depressing! Specially if you're female and at least 1/2 tuned in!
(It's really not all that suprising, it's just that nobody preps you for it & you're stuck trying to learn from places like fashion mags, and TV, and whatever role models you can find in your world.)

Therapy is great! IF you stumble across a wise & compassionate (read Tuned In) therapist. If you're very savvy or very lucky, you'll find that that therapist is a friend, or mentor, or perhaps even a seriously altruistic & underpaid volunteer. (I've rarely rarely EVER known of a 'Park Avenue Pricey' Shrink-type who did any more for you, for a LOT more money, then someone who cares enough to listen even if they aren't getting paid.)
That's what Friends.. or Sisters, are for!

Medication can be Good! Yet ultimately, the 'scripts you or your insurance co. pay for, from Valium to whatever's popular this year as a psychotropic mood-elevating drug, don't REALLY really make you any Better, or Healthier...

Then the same ole joint, beer, margarita, occasional line of Bolivian Marching Powder, or hit of that wonder-drug Placebo that you've experienced, enjoyed, and even counted on, elsewhere /elsewhen. Or that loud loud music, or a great movie, or a killer orgasm (with or w/o squirt) or just that 5 minutes of sitting in the sunshine, listening to birds or ocean noises.

What I'm trying to say is that it's all... Yin & Yang stuff. Depression, is only the PT price you volunteer for, in order to know what the true Sublime is.

I LOVE bending & stretching my own conciousness. I respect the strength it takes to do that.. without going Left-Fielded Brittany Spearsish.
I worry a little... about the ease & social acceptence developing over the last 20 years to just let those Docs drop a Happy Pill on you/us..

And I speak with the Voice of Experience. E me anytime, and I'll tell you about 25 yrs of toeing that line, and a hell of a lot of research & growth to realize I don't have to anymore hehe.
(DISCLAIMER: I don't mean to make light of anyone else's genuine need or benefit from their own treatments THAT WORK FOR THEM re depression or related syndromes! I am only offering to share.. a bit of insight that I've gained after nearly 35 yrs of dealing with it>)

Magz

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> Lorrie Moore, Sherman Alexie and, if you want to talk howling depression, Mary Gaitskill are all incredible, and can almost guarantee you will be pleasantly surprised by how good recent fiction can be. Big ups to George Saunders as well.

SallyPopcorn

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @eseleth: god, those are good. i'm using it.
thankfully (?) now that i live in LA and don't walk anywhere, human interaction has been cut way down. aside from the fact that driving makes me want to commit mass homicide, it beats having passers-by (incl. but not limited to: bums, creepy old men, jocular fat men in ill fitting suits, and bitter old women) tell me to buck up already.

titania1285

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @rocknrollunicorn: For fuck sake, depression isn't contagious.

I used to have a friend, I knew her for over twenty years, she started getting mad at me because she claimed I was using my depression to get back at her, I got admitted to a hospital once because I was mad about her birthday celebration. THAT'S what I call "forcing yourself" onto someone else. I haven't laid eyes on her by my choice in seven years.

And great, another doctor who claims that antidepressants rid you of emotion and we should all just be happy about "feeling stuff". I take them, they don't make me happy, they make me not want to kill myself. They make me not hate myself. Anything more than that is up to me. I don't laugh because I take pills, I laugh because now I spend time with people, before I used to spend days in bed with my face in my pillow, not showering or brushing my teeth for days. I wouldn't wish that life on anyone.

I also don't think this is the kind of life the writer is talking about that inspires creativity. When I am able to be happier, I am more creative.

I haven't read all the comments or the Newsweek article because I'm afraid it will make me sad. Sure, I'd prefer a world of Vincent Van Gogh images instead of Anne Geddes and her baby torture. But to romanticize the life of that poor, sad man is just cruel. Van Gogh killed himself because he hated himself, he thought everyone else hated him and he was always poverty stricken. It's easy for people nowadays to gloss over his existence and wax rapturously over his paintings, but I also wouldn't wish that poor man's life on anyone.

Xylo

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @rocknrollunicorn: I agree that it's really difficult when it's family. The relationship is so complicated, and so is the decision to distance yourself. I mean, even if you manage it successfully, there's all that awkwardness around the holidays. And some people seem to revel in it because it gets them what they want, like the attention of a favored parent. Mine were the other way. They distance themselves from me when I'm ill. I hear you on the sister. I have a troubled relationship with one of my sisters. Things are okay now, but they could collapse at any moment.

TheFormerJuneBronson

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @procrastinating...: thank you.

etvoila

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @titania1285: It's definitely not just you. Being ordered to smile is my biggest pet peeve. Sometimes I'll stop and tell the person who said it that I just got laid off or that my mother just called to say she had cancer. Which I realize is evil, but it's hard to resist.

onefishtwofish

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> As for my musical Prozac, it's usually Monty Python's "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life." You MUST whistle along to that song.

Cam/ron

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @J.D.regent: Have you read The Thirteenth Tale by Diane Setterfield? It's excellent. I'm saying this as someone who hates every book I pick up, so....

Lady Skittlehattington

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @TruculentandUnreliable: You are good at this list-making business! Has anyone mentioned Yann Martel, Khaled Hosseini, or Carlos Ruiz Zafon? None of them are reinventing the wheel, admittedly, but they do write beautifully.
@J.D.regent: I think sometimes we don't realise how much things are being moved on until we have some distance - hindsight is 20/20 and whatnot. Like, I don't know if anyone really picked up Middlemarch or The Old Man and the Sea when they were first published and said "My god! This book has opened up a whole new world of literature! My mind is blown!". These things kind of creep up on culture, if you know what I mean? (I'm not sure I know what I mean, to be honest.)

Eeva

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @TheFormerJuneBronson: I totally forgot to mention that most of these people are family -- I think the others I have found are probably, you know, me relating to what I know.

I'm thinking in particular of my sister, who has on and off been... I'm not sure about actually depressed though I have told her she needs to see a shrink. Definitely super negative and definitely stressing me out a lot. And sometimes me pointing out the bright side or telling her to lighten up seems to briefly work, so I guess my point is that I think a lot of peopel don't know how to deal with depression and might be resorting to what has worked with other negativity in their own past.

However, randoms on the street who request smiles SHOULD all be shot.

rocknrollunicorn

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @J.D.regent: This was written in English. Hegi is originally from Germany, but lives in the U.S.

@Cam/ron: Nothing like "Once More With Feeling" the soundtrack to the Buffy the Vampire Slayer musical episode to help with the blues.

Lymed

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @rocknrollunicorn: I'm willing to meet you halfway on this if you're willing to be critical about your point of view. You're saying first that you seem to surround yourself by these people, and then that they make you stabby. So whose fault exactly is your stabbiness? Theirs for being what they are, or yours for having them in your life? I agree that knowing many depressives can be overwhelming; I've cut people like me out of my life because I didn't have the energy to deal with them. And there are certainly ways to say that things aren't that bad without implying that something is wrong with them (and by extension right with you) if they think things are that bad. If you must have them in your life, are you being a positive person in their life, or only thinking of how they're a negative person in yours?

TheFormerJuneBronson

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @Cam/ron: Right now White Chalk by PJ Harvey is perfect for those not-so-happy days. I like Portishead for it too.

rocknrollunicorn

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @htrodblder: it seems today doc's are addressing depression as a chronic condition. so hope doc's aren't telling people they're cured, just that it can be managed. otherwise, a "relapse" becomes "their fault", and there's already a lot of guilt and self-anger w/depression. there was a good but shocking article in "us news & world report" dated 12/24/07 on depression. cited that americans today are 10x more likely to have depression than they were 60 yrs ago, and this is not merely the result of increased awareness and diagnosis (and not talking about just being sad or feeling blue.)

etvoila

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> i feel sorry for that guys partner..."Honey I don't really love you, it's just a positive illusion"

procrastinating...

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> Was the "positive illusions about your partner" bit funny to anyone else. I don't but I think my positive feelings toward my partner isn't an illusion. Hey I like evolution and I like my prozac. I still feel sad and happy it just isn't so fucking unreasonable anymore.

procrastinating...

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> "Being stressed and unhappy has a biological purpose, according to Diener and evolutionary biologists, who note that fear tend to force animals into action and "sadness" in mammals tends to result needed empathetic actions in others"

This is what I've been telling myself every time I get down about getting down - that happiness comes through constant pursuit.

valerina

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @TruculentandUnreliable: Noo! Not Ian McEwan? I was just about to offer him as an example of the NON-sucktitude of 21st century literature.

Also, Zadie Smith's "On Beauty" is wicked-good and gives me hope that talented young writers do exist!

Lowti

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> I'm all for people not being bright and cheery sometimes, but can I just stick up for the people who might say things like "stop complaining" or "things are not that bad"?

I think a lot of people don't realize the stress they put on other people. I have a habit of getting closely involved with people who complain and bitch and moan constantly but refuse to do anything constructive about the state of their lives. And sometimes crap just isn't worth dwelling on.

I guess what I'm saying is, I like melancholy as much as anyone else but you overstep when you're constantly forcing yours on other people. When you do that to me is when I start telling you to smile, because if you don't STFU about the sorry state of affairs, I will punch you. If you need therapy and drugs, go get it, because when your depression becomes my depression, I get stabby.

rocknrollunicorn

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @Cam/ron: Van Halen. I have yet to encounter a bad mood that can't be fixed by 80's pop rock. If I need to feel it, I just feel it. Almost any kind of music cheers me.

Wait, sometimes I listen to Joan Armatrading and be miserable. Okay, I think that was more what you were looking for.

TheFormerJuneBronson

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @alcibiades: can't you people stop trying to cheer me the fuck up?

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @TruculentandUnreliable: would love recommendations. in the past couple of months i have totally embraced my super nerdy, exd&d playing, fantasy and science fiction reading side. i have a lot to catch up on.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @J.D.regent: Not a fan of W.G. Sebald, Ben Marcus, Kazuo Ishiguro, Mo Yan, Jose Saramago, Steven Millhauser, George Saunders, or John Berger? And don't even get me started on all the people making great music today. Granted almost all the music I get is way, way underground.

alcibiades

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @J.D.regent: Great! I love post-apocalyptic fiction!

TruculentandUnreliable

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @TruculentandUnreliable: right. so i'm reading old books and working on the bomb shelter.that shoul give us some new material.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @J.D.regent: I almost think it's all been done, you know? Maybe I'm crazy, but I figure there's a limit to human creativity?

TruculentandUnreliable

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @cam/ron: I have a couple of playlists: one has vintage Aretha, Smokey Robinson, Curtis Mayfield, and the Stax artists, on the theory that the more funky the music, the more I can shake my funk. I also have another with Zero Seven, Lorena McKennitt, and slow Joni Mitchell, for when I just want to wallow.

brendastarlet is on it

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @TruculentandUnreliable: Oooh, also Haruki Murakami and Kazuo Ishiguro.

TruculentandUnreliable

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @htrodblder: Indeed! Just read something about alcoholism being a "horrible disease" holds its victims helpless in its grip--why should depression be any less? Because we're told that we should just "buck up"?

Some of us have more of it, others, low-level or episodic pulses. Whether it's been time with a shrink or meds (I can claim both), I still feel that entire range of emotions people like Diener feel is necessary to life. Most of us are just looking to blunt the sharpest edges, is all. With that in mind, I wouldn't dream of exhorting people to refrain from meds if it helps them, because most of the time, it doesn't erase a damned thing--it just keeps you in the game of life more, until you feel you can fly without.

thatgirlinnewyork

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @Lymed: ok! thanks. i meant to say i am talking about literature written in english. i think there are some really interesting things being written in other languages but i read it all in translation so it is a little bit hard to tell.

J.D.Regent

]]> <![CDATA[In Defense of Depression]]> @so5minutesago: yeah, i enjoy his books. it's not like i hate everything written in the last decade, i just don't think there's been anything really GR