Jezebel 
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New York, 12:55 AM
Mon Nov 30
18 posts in the last 24 hours
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11/29/09
Because what the fuck? Who would even think this? Let's assume that we all understand that racism is not ok, and silently assent that the giant gobs of anti-Muslim sentiment here is a big pile of bigoted bullshit. Beyond even that basic level of comprehension, because clearly most of the world hasn't caught on yet, the idea that an architectural element can wreak such havoc on a society is absolutely bonkers.
I'm all for the power of art to affect society. But this reads like a fucking Onion article. I mean, minarets = burkas? Seriously? They have minarets in Russia you know, so maybe minarets will just bring copious consumption of vodka and a predilection for long-winded novelists. I actually couldn't understand what this was about at first, because it seems so desperately removed from fucking reality. Come ON people. My mind, outside of vaguely thinking this was actually an anti-patriarchal move, was also like "is this like how no building in Paris is allowed to be taller than the Eiffel Tower?"
Finally--questions. 57% of Swiss, or 57% of the voters who voted? And are Swiss/European voting turnouts anything like the US's, in which 57% of votes doesn't come close to being half of the actual country?
11/29/09
As a 20-something Bosnian Serb refugee from the former Yugoslavia, I cannot tell you how entertaining it is to listen to my Muslim relatives argue with my Serbian Orthodox relatives about this issue. They aren't debating about the bigger picture of religious freedom, to them it's really just another excuse to drink espresso and argue about the former-Yugoslav wars.
11/29/09
Seriously guys, this is not the way be conquer issues of inequality. I can't believe I even have to say that.
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I am from a Jewish family who is, in almost all respects, very progressive and liberal. Everyone supports gay marriage and generally finds racism despicable. However, every once in a while, someone will come out with an ignorant and anti-Muslim remark, and every time when I try to defend Muslims, I get passionately shot down. Note that I did say I defended *Islam*, because the comments are never about the tenets of the religion. The reaction to my comments is generally "Why are you defending people who would kill you and your family if given the chance?" There's this perception of Muslims vs. Jews. It just doesn't make any sense to me.
My family gets very angry with me if I ever say anything positive or even neutral about Islam or Muslims or any Islamic culture. I would love to learn Arabic one day, and I think it will break their hearts. They will fear for my life just for interacting with the Muslim community.
These are the very same people who will decry racism of any other sort, who will march in the Pride parade, etc. It really confounds and upsets me.
11/29/09
11/29/09
In fact, allow me to paraphrase thusly:
Hey Julia Werner, fuck you!
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11/29/09
However, I think that it is wrong to blame "prominent feminists". I follow the Swiss media on a regular basis and have not gotten the impression that a disproportionate amount of prominent women voiced support for the ban.
Also, the result by far exceeded what was predicted by the polls. So I think that it is difficult to say now whether the female vote really drove this one.
11/29/09
And history has tought us to beware of radical believes of any kind. So when groups of radical muslims are trying to gather support within our communitys and turn "their" people against everyone else, we get scared and angry.
While a minaret itself is just a religious symbol we shouldn't have a problem with - they are also places where radical muslim preachers talk about how wrong the "unbelievers" are and how they will "take over" entire countries.
Again, I am (as are most people in western european countries) aware, that this basically prejudice and therefore wrong, but we can't help being offended by a small group of radicals that is trying to change the very foundation of our democracy.
Muslims all over Europe have to fight a reputation that has been established by a few radical idiots. And I am sorry for that.
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11/29/09
I am not trying to make this mess reasonable! What I'm saying is simply that we FEEL uneasy about this. It's not right and nobody is trying to discriminate against a minority based on their religion.
This is how hate survives all education. We hear those that scream the loudest and we react in the dumbest kind of way.
The only point I'm trying to make: Yes, you are right, yes this shouldn't have happend. But it didn't happen out of hate or discrimination but simple fear.
Failed immigration of large parts of the muslim population is one of the hardest obstacles countries like Germany, France and the likes are facing.
But what doesn't help is the rest of the world bitching at us for it. Show us how, tell us what to do and we talk.
11/29/09
- forbidding the erection of minarets won't change or stop radicalism
- fighting radical Islam by a denial of rights will only strengthen the determination of the very people it seeks to stifle
- it assumes that every Muslim who enters a minaret is a violent radical
As someone who is an American, I can't prescribe or suggest what is right for a nation I've never been to or studied. However, denying the right of Muslims to pray in minarets cannot be an acceptable course of action.
11/29/09
shut it. No, just shut it, really. Minarets don't make you live in a country with sharia law, just like churches don't spread biblical law.
11/29/09
Plus, if we typecast our structures and the impact they will have on our society's oppression of women according to general stereotypes, then clearly we should be afraid of white men based on the aforementioned monument, and I think we've done a fairly decent job of not perpetuating such ignorant generalizations. So why do these women not extend the same courtesy to Muslims? (Unfortunately, that's a rhetorical question.) Instead of throwing out buzz words that carry negative connotations, they should talk to Muslim womn and ask what these words mean to them before deciding what they mean for all women.
11/29/09
11/29/09
Love,
A Muslim woman who is very happy to be in the U.S.
11/29/09
That being said, banning one particular religion while others are allowed to practice seems counterproductive to all of us just getting the fuck along.
11/29/09
Religion is a great way of delineating us vs. them, but I wonder if its just a powerful proxy for humanity's desire to categorize. If you didn't have religion, you'd have nationalism, or political strife, or racism, or any number of ways to righteously subjugate or be subjugated.
If a magic atheist fairy waved her wand and eliminated religion, something would pop up in its place. I would totally have a drink with her, though.
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11/29/09
Anyway, you realize that they arrested him, right?
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11/29/09
The correlation: sucky decisions!