Not to suggest this is always or even often true, but I have more than once had problems dealing with someone in a position of authority that turned out to have a brain tumor. Sometimes with people who are truly unreasonable there can be some underlying pathology.
I agree with this article 100%. Every work issue I've ever had was because of the spite of a female co-worker. I used to have a female co-worker that would scream in my face and tell me to go f*ck myself, and female-led HR did nothing about it when I reported the incidents over a span of ONE YEAR. Then they hired a new female boss for our department, that just split everyone up into 2 groups: the people she liked, the people she didn't like, which just aggravated the drama even more. I eventually ended up pulling a kamikaze move and bombed my career by quitting without any notice. Now I make $10 an hour doing data entry. So yeah, certain females in the workplace basically ruined a good thing I had going for myself, but I also made some lasting friendships at that job with the few sane female coworkers I had.
@caranguejo: Do you mind if I ask you what career is so small that you bombed it by quitting one job with no notice? I'm not being snarky, just wondering if maybe you haven't done as must damage as you fear?
When my female superior was harrassing me I went home at lunch crying. My SO told me he would light her car on fire.
He was going to, but couldn't find a good time. Between cops, her moving, and me deploying, it just never seemed like the right time to have a weenie roast on her Maxima.
In the end I won. I make twice what she does now, drive a Benz, AND have a house. She can kiss my fat ass.
@RStewie: I just wrote this in the beer, meat, bride thread, but my best "revenge" thing was that one of my bullying bosses was the librarian who headed up the collapse of the Salinas Public Library System. This is the only (as far as I know) entire public library system in the country to be shut down due to mismanagement and lack of funds. And my former boss accomplished that!
I worked for her many years ago when she was with Los Angeles County and I knew that someday she would get promoted over her head and exposed as the belligerent narcissistic nut case she was. I just never expected it to be so absolute, public and gratifying!! I heard they really ripped into her on BookSlut but I missed that part.
Ah...if we wait long enough ever tin dictator is toppled. Meanwhile I have an awesome life and leaving her employ didn't hurt me one bit. (She told me that I shouldn't quit when I did because it would destroy my future). MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
My last boss, an older woman, not only took any opportunity to belittle me and insult my work (as a teacher), but also took pains to alienate me from my colleagues, telling me that I was "arrogant and unapproachable," and that "the heavier teachers think you think you're better than them." She accused me of sleeping through exams and classes, told me I was ungrateful for her mentorship, and that I seemed to think I was better than her, despite her PhD and years of "successful" teaching experience.
Oh, and she told me point blank that I had a sexually charged dynamic with all men on staff (and students), and that in effect, I constantly was, verbatim, "saying to them, 'please FUCK me.'"
I think this article is dead on. Also, I feel like when I get venom from women at work, it's always from older women . . . does anyone else feel that way? It's super annoying, I don't understand the girl-on-girl hate.
I have an interesting situation where I work in one building with a woman administrator and a second building with a male in that position. I spend more time in the second and thankfully so. People either love or hate that woman - nothing in between. I've edging towards 'dislike' this year but haven't gone to the dark side completely yet. I'm in her building less than an hour a day but sometimes I do ACTUALLY NEED SOMETHING!! Twice this year she has walked away from me when I've been in mid-sentence. I have a job description that says I'll teach one class in her building. I have a school board to answer to that will hold me to that contract. I have parents who want their children in that class and I have to answer to them as well. What I really don't need is someone who makes this more difficult for me.
The guy who is principal in the building where I spend most of my time? No problems.
@Gretchen: I have to respond because when I changed job sites for my fifth year, I worked for two different principals, both men and never even hardly saw or dealt with them. When I needed to confer with them I did and we had good productive face to face time. When I didn't need them, they were invisible. They seemed to just trust I was doing my job and let me do it.
@Tart of Darkness: This is my experience exactly. I deal with most everything and seldom need a principal. The man I work with knows this. The woman would rather not bother with me at all even when I do need her help or input and she full well knows I can't take care of things myself.
@Gretchen: The walking away when you are talking to her pushed my buttons hard when I read it. And it's a situation that is very difficult to work with because as groovymarlin points out you are dealing with a crazy person, so logical and clear communication rarely gets you where you need to go. You do have my sympathy and you are fortunate to have input from a different boss who treats you well as a reality check.
I have been bullied by male and female bosses but with the female bosses it was far, far more personal. I always say "my last job" even though it wasn't, it did end me to some extent was working for a woman who I'm certain suffered from borderline personality disorder and since I was working for her as a therapy intern, I think it's fair for me to use this provisional diagnosis.
She LOVED me when I started out and then when I became ill after working for her for two years, she HATED me. I occasionally had to take sick days and the more often I did the more she would pressure me until I was sicker than before. This evolved into making me almost completely incapable of doing my job and her response to that was to yell at me.
Finally she did to me what she had done to many other employees and rounded up her current group of favorites (very different from the favorites of even the year before) and began to isolate me and push me out. I had seen her do this about 10 times in the previous years so it was weird to be experiencing it. All I cared about was finishing my internship for that last year.
Finally my fourth year finished, I had the summer off and her supervisor hired me for a different school site. I mean, really. What does that tell you?
The intern they hired to replace me took the job in the Spring and then called and quit on the first day of school in September, so they had no one for months. Then they hired someone that she didn't trust was competent and she actually called me at my new site to ask me to guide this person through a difficult task. And I did. Because getting help for the student was more important to me than wanting to punish her.
Two years after I left her school she was promoted to a district office job that I believe she was tremendously qualified for and which required that she not supervise anyone but her secretary. She had to make nice to all the teachers and other staff that she had alienated at her school, but I think they really put her in the right place.
The CFS/Fibromyalgia that I contracted back then has prevented me from working full time ever since although I've had a couple of consulting/working at home jobs since I left there. The emotional turmoil of it still lingers for me and whenever I can work I have trouble with trying to be good enough even though people tell me my work is terrific.
I'm getting better, but I have to say for a long time I wanted her dead.
@Tart of Darkness: Wow, as if CFS/Fibromyalgia wasn't enough to deal with, especially since stress can exacerbate it. My dad is a lawyer, and he's represented a few people in your situation. There are still plenty of companies who refuse to believe that the conditions even exist, and his clients had to fight to receive fair treatment and the medical care that they were entitled to. I'm so sorry that it was such a traumatic experience for you, and I hope that you're getting the support that you deserve.
@Lilah: When I first got the symptoms of CFS I didn't entirely believe it was a real disease and so it took me years to get diagnosed. I have had it for 12 or so years now.
I've been bullied (or at least been made pretty damn miserable) at work by both men and women. I think that in every case, the bully did not bully me because he or she was a man or woman, but because he or she was a f**king psychopath! Seriously! Who spends their time and energy bullying another employee instead of focusing on doing their own job better? A psycho, that's who. And psycho comes in both male and female flavors, both bitter.
The Quick King had a female colleague in a position of power over others, though not him. She merely stole from him, while being cunty (and that is not an adjective I use lightly)to the females under her AND stealing from them. The saddest thing is, I feel like we as a culture are still in a time where a woman in power represents many women in power, and when one screws up royally it makes others look bad.
Hmmm. I work in technology so most of the egos I deal with are male. I don't disagree with the stats quoted, they may or may not correlate directly to my own experiences, but I think that quote is telling - 'female bullies direct their dysfuntion' meaning if a woman at work is going to be abusive, more often than not it will be at another woman. I've worked with bullies of either gender, and of course women can be nasty. It's like Mean Girls, office version. My former boss was very supportive and helped me really move my career forward, but when she resigned last summer she told all the executives that I was not mature enough to take her job. I don't resent her for it, but she absolutely over-identified with me, meaning she was viewing me as a younger version of her instead of really seeing my growth. She ALSO bullied some of the other girls at work, with her bff. Some girls at work cried from the snarky comments etc. People evolve and she got a lot better before she left. Now that she is gone, her bff has stopped bullying entirely. Girl on girl crime at work can be nasty and extremely unprofessional.
I think women at work, epecially those on an executive track, focus a LOT on learning how to manage men as peers, subordinates, or bosses. I think that equal attention should be paid to learning how to manage our relationships with other women. We tend to cast perfect strangers into these imaginary roles and with other women, I guess subconciously we think it is ok to act out our own personal dramas with them. I worry that I am a bully; when I was younger I was a bully in general and part of my career development has been learning how to channel my agression constructively and without driving my coworkers and staff crazy. I had to actively work on it and also get some coaching and mentoring from Sr management, both male AND female. I think it is a major flaw of mine and I am glad I have had a real opportunity to work on it. I can only hope that others get the same chance to be aware of and fix things that may be holding them back.
(I may not bully anymore, but I still get my shit DONE and I can bring the 'polite bitch' if I need to defend my staff or get a vendor to cooperate!!)
I'm not sure the issue is really that women bully female employees more. I think women tend to work for other women and are more likely to admit slights.
I tempted a few years ago, often in the financial sector and there was a lot of man on man bullying, far more than I've seen in other jobs. At one hedgefund, the boss ripped one of the guy's apart for a mistake, threw a phone at him, called him every name in the book. I wouldn't have been surprised if this guy had harmed himself afterwards (though he didn't)- that's how bad it was. But I don't think any of the guys in the office would tick abusive boxes for that boss, it was just accepted as a response to a fuck up.
I don't think we need female buisness women to take seminars on not bullying, the issue isn't some defect of the feminine, its being an asshole. Let's deal with the individual assholes out there and not feed the women are catty myth.
I'm not sure I agree with the idea that the female bosses are really the problem. I think that people who have risen to positions with some power are more likely to be cutthroat climbers, male or female. I think the problem is that a girl who is always bullied is more likely to let herself be bullied in the future. I think a lot of women have a hard time standing up for themselves because they are so concerned about being liked or are avoiding being put in the bitch category (which can be a difficult, lonely place) that they would rather be walked on than assertive, and I don't think men have the same problem.
@Over. It.: I definitely agree that when I have been bullied it has been because I am in a situation where I let someone repeatedly push my boundaries without pushing back soon enough. I can see how my desire to minimize conflict with coworkers or with people in situations like that ultimately causes me problems. I am a lot more assertive than I used to be, but I still find myself in trouble with this from time to time.
Hey, I have no problem admitting I was bullied by a female boss. Pretty hard to say it was anything else after watching this woman systematically destroy any chances of a future with the organization or the industry in general, openly criticizing my clothes, my friends, my hair, my lunches, all the way kissing the male (gay) colleague, calling him nicknames and giving him presents. Especially since I was one of a long line of women who had been bullied out of that otherwise incredible job by this raving bitch, who was apparently so terrified of being replaced that she'd hire the best up-and-comers and then tear them down, all the while crowing about her power. Horrific, excruciating, and doing long-lasting damage. I still don't know if I could ever re-enter the industry or whether she'd managed to blacken my name with her ridiculous accusations.
Ooops. Sorry. I appear to be venting.
Now I work in a macho office where I have been told that I will never be a consultant because - and my boss said this in these exact words - "you need a penis to succeed."
Kazzah will eventually be Mrs Thom Yorke. He just doesn't know it yet. was starred
Kazzah will eventually be Mrs Thom Yorke. He just doesn't know it yet. was unstarred
@Kazzah: Your experience with your female boss is similar to what I have found with the female bullies I've met ... everything is fair game to them to criticize. EVERYTHING!
As for your current situation, to quote Spinal Tap: "You know where you stand in a hell hole."
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He was going to, but couldn't find a good time. Between cops, her moving, and me deploying, it just never seemed like the right time to have a weenie roast on her Maxima.
In the end I won. I make twice what she does now, drive a Benz, AND have a house. She can kiss my fat ass.
01/13/09
I worked for her many years ago when she was with Los Angeles County and I knew that someday she would get promoted over her head and exposed as the belligerent narcissistic nut case she was. I just never expected it to be so absolute, public and gratifying!! I heard they really ripped into her on BookSlut but I missed that part.
Ah...if we wait long enough ever tin dictator is toppled. Meanwhile I have an awesome life and leaving her employ didn't hurt me one bit. (She told me that I shouldn't quit when I did because it would destroy my future). MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
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01/13/09
Oh, and she told me point blank that I had a sexually charged dynamic with all men on staff (and students), and that in effect, I constantly was, verbatim, "saying to them, 'please FUCK me.'"
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The guy who is principal in the building where I spend most of my time? No problems.
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01/12/09
She LOVED me when I started out and then when I became ill after working for her for two years, she HATED me. I occasionally had to take sick days and the more often I did the more she would pressure me until I was sicker than before. This evolved into making me almost completely incapable of doing my job and her response to that was to yell at me.
Finally she did to me what she had done to many other employees and rounded up her current group of favorites (very different from the favorites of even the year before) and began to isolate me and push me out. I had seen her do this about 10 times in the previous years so it was weird to be experiencing it. All I cared about was finishing my internship for that last year.
Finally my fourth year finished, I had the summer off and her supervisor hired me for a different school site. I mean, really. What does that tell you?
The intern they hired to replace me took the job in the Spring and then called and quit on the first day of school in September, so they had no one for months. Then they hired someone that she didn't trust was competent and she actually called me at my new site to ask me to guide this person through a difficult task. And I did. Because getting help for the student was more important to me than wanting to punish her.
Two years after I left her school she was promoted to a district office job that I believe she was tremendously qualified for and which required that she not supervise anyone but her secretary. She had to make nice to all the teachers and other staff that she had alienated at her school, but I think they really put her in the right place.
The CFS/Fibromyalgia that I contracted back then has prevented me from working full time ever since although I've had a couple of consulting/working at home jobs since I left there. The emotional turmoil of it still lingers for me and whenever I can work I have trouble with trying to be good enough even though people tell me my work is terrific.
I'm getting better, but I have to say for a long time I wanted her dead.
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01/12/09
But I do have an excellent life now, thank you.
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thequickqueenofquincyandherquackingquackeroo.
nice.
01/12/09
I think women at work, epecially those on an executive track, focus a LOT on learning how to manage men as peers, subordinates, or bosses. I think that equal attention should be paid to learning how to manage our relationships with other women. We tend to cast perfect strangers into these imaginary roles and with other women, I guess subconciously we think it is ok to act out our own personal dramas with them. I worry that I am a bully; when I was younger I was a bully in general and part of my career development has been learning how to channel my agression constructively and without driving my coworkers and staff crazy. I had to actively work on it and also get some coaching and mentoring from Sr management, both male AND female. I think it is a major flaw of mine and I am glad I have had a real opportunity to work on it. I can only hope that others get the same chance to be aware of and fix things that may be holding them back.
(I may not bully anymore, but I still get my shit DONE and I can bring the 'polite bitch' if I need to defend my staff or get a vendor to cooperate!!)
01/12/09
01/12/09
I tempted a few years ago, often in the financial sector and there was a lot of man on man bullying, far more than I've seen in other jobs. At one hedgefund, the boss ripped one of the guy's apart for a mistake, threw a phone at him, called him every name in the book. I wouldn't have been surprised if this guy had harmed himself afterwards (though he didn't)- that's how bad it was. But I don't think any of the guys in the office would tick abusive boxes for that boss, it was just accepted as a response to a fuck up.
I don't think we need female buisness women to take seminars on not bullying, the issue isn't some defect of the feminine, its being an asshole. Let's deal with the individual assholes out there and not feed the women are catty myth.
01/12/09
Dang.
01/12/09
01/12/09
Ooops. Sorry. I appear to be venting.
Now I work in a macho office where I have been told that I will never be a consultant because - and my boss said this in these exact words - "you need a penis to succeed."
Which is worse?
01/12/09
As for your current situation, to quote Spinal Tap: "You know where you stand in a hell hole."