This is a duh question. Of course women internalize and buy into sexism just like men do. Tons of female Obama fans last year lambasted Clinton for being too cold and ambitious, and talked about her as if she and Bill were going to have a co-presidency. They do so because they get approval from men, and because they need to distance themselves from the cold feminist bitches out there.
Women have less solidarity than racial, ethnic, or religious groups because we're in a unique position of "sleeping with the enemy" Gay or straight, we have men in our families.
The quickest way to get a nod and a cookie from a sexist progressive dude last year was to say "I'm not going to vote for her just because she's a woman" We need a critical mass of women in federal government, in media, in advertising, to stop struggling against the backlash and effect real progress, until then, women in power are crabs in a barrel. [guerillawomentn.blogspot.com]
I'm a female journalist among many males. I have a lot of say what goes on the newspaper's front page, and during election season it would make me sick when another editor wanted Palin on the front page cause that "hot thing" will sell more papers. Because I had final say, she went on the front when she needed to be, and Hillary went on when she needed to be.
I always try to showcase more women when, because most days it's all men in every photo ... but picking based on attractiveness never, ever crossed my mind.
My dad is a judge, and being of a certain generation he still has trouble not referring to men as "attorneys" and women as "women attorneys." He has also pointed out many times over the years that "women attorneys" seem to "feel the need to dress very severely" e.g. dark suit, hair pulled back, very little makeup. He's generally not bad about this kind of thing, but for some reason remarking on the appearance of women in the courtroom drives me up the wall.
Mostly because a) I often go to work in simple clothes with my hair pulled back and very little makeup, and it isn't because I'm trying to look "severe" - I'm just at work, and as long as I look professional and tidy I see no need to worry too much about my appearance and b) it's just emblematic to me of an entire attitude that says all men have to do is wear a standard dark suit and they're perfectly professional looking, but women have to "do" their hair and makeup.
I also got really annoyed with my dad when I was doing a real-estate deal and the attorney (early 30s, long blonde hair, fully done makeup, business-casual clothes) clearly identified herself as such to us, then later he said "Oh, she was a paralegal - she didn't look like an attorney." He didn't catch her introduction of herself, but that wasn't the point - the point was that his assumption was that a woman my age dressed in a feminine manner couldn't be an attorney - but if she had been more polished looking, he might have thought she was "severe".
In sum, there's a reason I didn't become a lawyer.
@Flackette Goes Retro: Yup, I deal with this all the time. Last week a partner I work with asked when we were talking with "the Chicago lady" - if she were a man, he would have said "Chicago lawyer."
There was a bit of a kerfuffle in the legal world a couple months ago because at a judges conference, a bunch of them complained that female attorneys wear short skirts and shirts that are "distracting." In the short time (4 years) I've been an attorney, I've seen one female attorney dressed inapporpriately in court (too casual) - but I've seen dozens of men who think it's fine to go in a sport coat and no tie. (It's not, where I practice.)
And I can't tell you the number of times I've been assumed to be a secretary or a paralegal.
This reminds me of a recent controversy in Germany:
"The election placards have been put up by Vera Lengsfeld, a member of Mrs Merkel's own conservative CDU party, who is running in a left-wing district of Berlin for a seat in parliament in the September 27 poll.
The billboards show photographs of each woman in an evening dress showing plenty of cleavage with the slogan: "We have more to offer" emblazoned over the chancellor's breasts."
I'm a female radio journalist who works the graveyard shift (10PM to 8AM). I'm alone for most of the night, so I get to pick my own stories and what goes to air, so it's womens issue stories ALL NIGHT LONG.
So...I can't make fun of Sarah Palin's appearance anymore? Fair enough, that still leaves me with about a lifetimes worth of talking points with her as the subject.
I think the issue is complicated by people trading on their looks, as well. That seems a little more fair when it's commented on. Clinton doesn't trade on her looks. I feel McCain does, a bit. Not that I think she needs criticism, I just for some reason don't feel quite as bad.
It's kind of like how I chuckle when I see that picture of John Edwards checking himself out in the mirror. You know he traded on his looks.
@redqueenmeg: how does she trade on her looks? i'm genuinely curious. has she done fashion spreads or anything? if not, sometimes it is possible to mistake the fact that someone's looks are valued by patriarchy for her trading on them. it's a kind of woman on woman hate to blame pretty girls for the attention or power their beauty brings them if they aren't actually using their looks in place of intelligence or whatever else, right?
@redqueenmeg: you know the saying "there's no business like show business"? the older i get, the more i realize that every business is like show business, and many men and women have been trading on their looks for years, if not centuries.
if the first two seasons of mad men have taught us anything, it's that women have come a long way when it comes to certain issues but girl-on-girl crime (joan telling peggy she needed to lose weight!?!) has been going on for a long, long time.
@rednrowdy: I have heard that, yep. I majored in theater. :)
I know it's an old story, I just for some reason have more respect for people who seem to have gotten where they are through sheer motivation and hard work.
I'm wondering, if John McCain's daughter Bridget had the same opinions as Meghan, and wanted to get them out there, would she have the same platform for them?
@redqueenmeg: i'm with you, but i feel like that trading on looks is fairly prevalent - people trade on their looks until they become established and don't have to anymore. is it fair? no. do i respect them more because of it? no, and i don't think that they are smarter because of it either.
i also wonder about bridget mccain - to be fair, though...bridget is still a teenager.
@redqueenmeg: What's wrong with that picture? Forgive me if I misunderstand, but are you saying that that picture demonstrates McCain playing on her looks?
I was surprised at the pic, really I expected it to be sexy or something, but it's just an regular woman sitting on her bed, wearing jeans and a sweater, drinking what looks like a beer and using a laptop.
Is it the blonde hair? The ample busom? The red toenails? The smile?
Maybe it would be better if we all wore burkas so as to level the "playing on looks" field. Or maybe we should continuously harp on McCains chubbiness to keep her humble.
You said "I just for some reason have more respect for people who seem to have gotten where they are through sheer motivation and hard work." - that seems like a sort of icky thing to say.
I thought this was covered in the movie "9 to 5" like 30 years ago. Doralee was never a slut, no matter how blonde or big-busted.
@sequined: The least she could do is like, wink once in awhile. At least let you know she might be up for it instead of playing the frigid bitch all the time.
@J.D.Regent: I get confused when I see women anywhere in society not trying to turn me on. It makes me uncomfortable. What if they try to talk to me and start saying something not related to how how my dick is? Awk. Ward.
@BabyJane: Or at least some nice skirts instead of pantsuits? I'd totally watch her TV appearances if I thought there was a chance of catching a glimpse of no man's land when she recrosses her legs.
@BabyJane: I guess if she would just flash some cleave and if I trained my brain to interpret the words "economy" and "policy" as "I want you to do naughty things to me," maybe I could accept having her in politics. MAYBE.
@sequined: I would take her more seriously if I could just see her with some liposuctioned abs and stringy bulging biceps. I mean really, all she needs is some breast implants shoved up under her chin, and viola! Cougartown Clinton!
It's ridiculous. Both female politicians and female journalists rightfully look to be taken seriously in their fields, but then some of them pull out the catty bullshit for no reason. You don't like someone's personal views or politics? Fine, attack them on that. But appearance? Way to totally negate whatever point you were going to make.
@HighSchoolFearleader: the most recent time i can think of male politicians being picked on for their appearance wasn't even in the u.s. - remember all the flack gorbachev got for his birthmark? yet, it didn't negate his power as a ruler. could you imagine if men went on and on about other men in positions of power because omg, they have a double chin and a belly and their hair is WHITE!? like that has jack to do with their acumen to do the job.
@rednrowdy: To be fair, John Edwards did have a media dust-up about his $400 haircuts, which was meant to lampoon him during the campaign as someone with more style than substance.
You lost, Repugnicans, you don't get to choose. STFU!
Every time I hear this kind of chatter, I think of the word "hysteria" and how appropriately it describes the antics of the conservative male, especially.
The problem with Rush Limbaugh and his ilk is not only that they are unable to identify with anyone other than other conservative white guys--it's also that to them that's not necessarily a bad thing.
A few of the comments revolve around her being a domineering "school marm" who would mark (legal documents?) up as though she were an English teacher before sending them back to be corrected.
Why is it that these men can only conceive of a powerful woman in terms of a teacher ready to rap their knuckles if they misspell a word? Because even as they seem to be acknowledging her possible power, by using the school marm image they're also undercutting her authority and presenting her as just another hysterical woman.
09/01/09
Women have less solidarity than racial, ethnic, or religious groups because we're in a unique position of "sleeping with the enemy" Gay or straight, we have men in our families.
The quickest way to get a nod and a cookie from a sexist progressive dude last year was to say "I'm not going to vote for her just because she's a woman" We need a critical mass of women in federal government, in media, in advertising, to stop struggling against the backlash and effect real progress, until then, women in power are crabs in a barrel.
[guerillawomentn.blogspot.com]
09/01/09
I always try to showcase more women when, because most days it's all men in every photo ... but picking based on attractiveness never, ever crossed my mind.
09/01/09
Mostly because a) I often go to work in simple clothes with my hair pulled back and very little makeup, and it isn't because I'm trying to look "severe" - I'm just at work, and as long as I look professional and tidy I see no need to worry too much about my appearance and b) it's just emblematic to me of an entire attitude that says all men have to do is wear a standard dark suit and they're perfectly professional looking, but women have to "do" their hair and makeup.
I also got really annoyed with my dad when I was doing a real-estate deal and the attorney (early 30s, long blonde hair, fully done makeup, business-casual clothes) clearly identified herself as such to us, then later he said "Oh, she was a paralegal - she didn't look like an attorney." He didn't catch her introduction of herself, but that wasn't the point - the point was that his assumption was that a woman my age dressed in a feminine manner couldn't be an attorney - but if she had been more polished looking, he might have thought she was "severe".
In sum, there's a reason I didn't become a lawyer.
09/01/09
There was a bit of a kerfuffle in the legal world a couple months ago because at a judges conference, a bunch of them complained that female attorneys wear short skirts and shirts that are "distracting." In the short time (4 years) I've been an attorney, I've seen one female attorney dressed inapporpriately in court (too casual) - but I've seen dozens of men who think it's fine to go in a sport coat and no tie. (It's not, where I practice.)
And I can't tell you the number of times I've been assumed to be a secretary or a paralegal.
09/01/09
09/01/09
This reminds me of a recent controversy in Germany:
"The election placards have been put up by Vera Lengsfeld, a member of Mrs Merkel's own conservative CDU party, who is running in a left-wing district of Berlin for a seat in parliament in the September 27 poll.
The billboards show photographs of each woman in an evening dress showing plenty of cleavage with the slogan: "We have more to offer" emblazoned over the chancellor's breasts."
09/01/09
09/01/09
09/01/09
It's kind of like how I chuckle when I see that picture of John Edwards checking himself out in the mirror. You know he traded on his looks.
09/01/09
09/01/09
if the first two seasons of mad men have taught us anything, it's that women have come a long way when it comes to certain issues but girl-on-girl crime (joan telling peggy she needed to lose weight!?!) has been going on for a long, long time.
09/01/09
09/01/09
I know it's an old story, I just for some reason have more respect for people who seem to have gotten where they are through sheer motivation and hard work.
I'm wondering, if John McCain's daughter Bridget had the same opinions as Meghan, and wanted to get them out there, would she have the same platform for them?
09/01/09
i also wonder about bridget mccain - to be fair, though...bridget is still a teenager.
09/02/09
@redqueenmeg: What's wrong with that picture? Forgive me if I misunderstand, but are you saying that that picture demonstrates McCain playing on her looks?
I was surprised at the pic, really I expected it to be sexy or something, but it's just an regular woman sitting on her bed, wearing jeans and a sweater, drinking what looks like a beer and using a laptop.
Is it the blonde hair? The ample busom? The red toenails? The smile?
Maybe it would be better if we all wore burkas so as to level the "playing on looks" field. Or maybe we should continuously harp on McCains chubbiness to keep her humble.
You said "I just for some reason have more respect for people who seem to have gotten where they are through sheer motivation and hard work." - that seems like a sort of icky thing to say.
I thought this was covered in the movie "9 to 5" like 30 years ago. Doralee was never a slut, no matter how blonde or big-busted.
and Hillary was, and still is, a total hottie:
[www.twolia.com]
09/02/09
I also never implied Hillary wasn't attractive, only that I didn't think she counted on that to get attention.
I'm still wondering about Bridget.
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[www.google.com]
09/02/09
09/01/09
Because Ingram and Brown are assholes.
There, that was easy.
09/01/09
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09/01/09
Oooh, nerd alert!
07/10/09
Every time I hear this kind of chatter, I think of the word "hysteria" and how appropriately it describes the antics of the conservative male, especially.
07/10/09
07/10/09
Jesus Tap Dancing Christ. Grasping.At.Straws.
Also, who gives a fuck if she's "abrasive" or whatever on the bench? I think the appellate attorneys can take it. They're a thick skinned bunch.
07/10/09
07/10/09
Why is it that these men can only conceive of a powerful woman in terms of a teacher ready to rap their knuckles if they misspell a word? Because even as they seem to be acknowledging her possible power, by using the school marm image they're also undercutting her authority and presenting her as just another hysterical woman.
07/11/09
They're also morons and haven't a clue what lawyers and judges do.
07/10/09
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