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Merry Widows, Sad Guys: Do Women Finally Have It Better?
American Widow Project Helps Military Wives Work Through Grief

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cirocco
07/13/09

In reply to Merry Widows, Sad Guys: Do Women Finally Have It Better?
"Why can't we instead realize that the same rigidity of roles that we deplore could hurt not just women, but men, and find that not a source of satisfaction, but of sorrow?"

Because I can only feel so much sorrow on any given day, and I prefer to reserve it for parties who were involuntarily disenfranchised in their own homes, not expend it on men who never learned to cook because they sneeringly dismissed it as "women's work." It's not like men feel sympathy for women who lack traditional "male" skills such as automotive repair. Men will loudly tell us we're blithering idiots if we don't know how to change a tire.
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rednrowdy
07/13/09

In reply to Merry Widows, Sad Guys: Do Women Finally Have It Better?
wouldn't it stand to reason that the quality and length of the marriage prior to the spouse dying would play a factor in this, too? what about spouses who become fulltime caregivers prior to widow/widower status? many folks far younger than the AARP age stay in bad marriages or loveless marriages for many reasons. i can see someone stuck in a bad marriage would feel free once their spouse dies. on the flipside, if someone has been married happily for more than 45 years and their spouse dies, you don't just jump back in the saddle the next day, especially if you have been the primary caregiver for that spouse prior to their death.
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Eric Northman is mine
07/13/09

In reply to Merry Widows, Sad Guys: Do Women Finally Have It Better?
In terms of widows/widowers. Have you noticed in older couples that men tend pass away after their wives have passed but women tend to live on for a lot longer after their spouses’ death. Of course this is based on anecdotal evidence but my grandfather passed away 1 year after my grandmother passed away and I noticed a similar trend with my friend's grandparents. Something about men being more dependent on women for care/companionship and women being better able to fend for themselves allows women to continue to live on and adapt but men feel like they can’t go on or completely lost without their spouse.
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Fridge Hussy : Is finally heading back to uni!
07/13/09

In reply to Merry Widows, Sad Guys: Do Women Finally Have It Better?
I know a bit about the decline in diet if a husband loses his wife. My father can prepare meals, but if my mum goes away for even a few days, my dad only eats baked beans, bread, sardines and onions. Usually at the same time!
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Edited by Fridge Hussy : Is finally heading back to uni! at 07/13/09 4:05 PM

AmericanSplendor
07/13/09

@Fridge Hussy : Is finally heading back to uni!:

My dad's the one that cooks, and so my mom subsists on Trader Joe's tabouli and digiorno pizza. That's of course that's the one night a week she'll eat at home if my dad's gone, because when he leaves I can set my watch by the fact my mom will call by 6 and pick me up to go to dinner.
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doodley is not amused
07/13/09

@Fridge Hussy : Is finally heading back to uni!: We seriously question that my father knows how to find the grocery store. Actually, the one closest to my parents' house recently closed for remodeling, and I suspect that my dad could not easily find an alternate if pressed to do so.
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andBegorrah
07/13/09

In reply to Merry Widows, Sad Guys: Do Women Finally Have It Better?
The solution is clearly to let elderly single ladies use their "independence" to entertain lonely gentlemen callers, and if, in their aged wisdom, they decide that the poor dears would be better off in a nice quiet grave in the cellar, then it's their prerogative to add one teaspoon full of arsenic, a half a teaspoon full of strychnine, and just a pinch of cyanide to the elderberry wine.
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
07/13/09

@andBegorrah: Yes, but how does Teddy Roosevelt and Boris Karloff fit in?
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doodley is not amused
07/13/09

@andBegorrah: If you put it in tea, it has a distinct odor, you know.
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mbot says Spock yeah!
07/13/09

@andBegorrah: These older ladies will be examples of a new type of woman, henceforth known as saber-tooth tigers.
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Edited by mbot says Spock yeah! at 07/13/09 4:23 PM

NerD: Blattella
07/13/09

In reply to Merry Widows, Sad Guys: Do Women Finally Have It Better?
My grandfather on my father's side died at 83. My grandma immediately became very independent, living another 15 and dying at 97.

One thing that made that work was that essentially after living together for 60+ years they were roommates. They loved each other, but both led separate lives. They both managed to live well together, but his death didn't limit her options in life, and I am sure being with her prolonged his.

My other grandfather, who was a cranky old single son of a bitch, divorced young, died early, and nobody missed him much when he left.

There is no moral here.
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TheFormerJuneBronson
07/13/09

@NerD!!! - R.O.A.C.H.: My maternal grandparents went the same way. My grandfather, a chronic alcoholic, made it to 78 before he died. That was twelve years ago, and though my grandmother missed him, she is still going strong at 88, living on her own, with a big circle of friends and family. I want to be just like her when I'm old.
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AmericanSplendor
07/13/09

In reply to Merry Widows, Sad Guys: Do Women Finally Have It Better?
My mother came very close to being a widow last year, but the pops perservered (thank you thank you, thank you Jesus). Believe me, my mother would have been able to cook for herself and clean, but she knows NOTHING about personal finance, except what my dad explains to her. She would have been SOL when it came to retirement.

Is this true for others? I know that many woman handle home finances, but aren't long term investments usually the domain of men? What do widows do in the long run when they have to keep their funds alive during retirement? I think this could be one (of many) reasons you see that an unfair portion of elderly women are dependent almost solely on social security, because they don't know enough about investing to keep their private funds going. There's probably a lot going into that issue, but that seems reasonable to think it could be part of it.

So, in the end, gender roles hurt everyone, at every age. No poetic justice about that.
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Penny
07/13/09

@AmericanSplendor: In the case of my parents, my mom handles the money (because my dad can't be trusted....like me), but my boyfriend's parents are the opposite. His father does all the finances and his mom simply passes all receipts to him. But, he's retired, so he has more time.

I really do think this is more generational, as I said below. I don't see this being a huge issue with couples my age in 50 years.
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AmericanSplendor
07/13/09

@Penny:

I sure hope so. I can barely handle my own finances, and I've spent entire semesters on retirement planning and social security. If I have to plan two people's retirements, I'll probably burst into flames from frustration. I need to find me an hombre who will share all duties fairly, because I ain't organizing his IRA, that's for f''ing sure.
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Flackette Goes Retro
07/13/09

@AmericanSplendor: My dad had a health scare last month, and it threw into sharp relief for me how much my mom's financial situation would change without him. While he receives a pension, if something were to happen to him she would receive only half of that pension as his survivor. She is not old enough for Social Security, and what she's eligible for is as a spouse, not a worker herself. And they are in the midst of trying to sell either one or both houses. She is very organized, but he has been the one to keep most of the finances, and his files are not in very good order at all (more like stacks of paper on a desk). She is educated, with a graduate degree, but they fell into very traditional gender roles when we were little kids and just never really stopped.

Because of all this, my mom realizes her own financial vulnerability, and has been on me nonstop for some years to invest for myself. She nagged me until I started a retirement account at 25, and now at 29 she is my cheerleader as I buy a house in my own name, with no cosigner. She says she is so very proud of me just for being a self-sufficient woman who pays all her own bills and manages her own money. And heck, I'm kind of proud of me too. I just don't want to find myself in my late 50s realizing I don't have any assets for retirement in my own name.
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AmericanSplendor
07/13/09

@Flackette Goes Retro:

Haha, that's so true. Honestly, saving for retirement is the greatest gift you can give yourself, because we're all reluctant to do it until it's too late. I plan on starting a retirement account as soon as I get a real (read: first out of college) job. My parents are wonderful people, but they told me that saving for their retirement is important to them, and that if I went to a fancy school, I would have to pay some of it, because you can take out loans for school, but you can't take loans out for retirement.
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thegogglesdonothing
07/13/09

In reply to Merry Widows, Sad Guys: Do Women Finally Have It Better?
Fun fact: the reason that older adults have the highest suicide rate of any age group is nearly entirely due to increases in suicide among males. Older females are not at a substantially higher risk for suicide than females of other age groups. I'm sure that the gap in domestic self-sufficiency in past generations and the 'widower effect' are a big part of this.
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PilgrimSoul
07/13/09

In reply to Merry Widows, Sad Guys: Do Women Finally Have It Better?
Why can't we instead realize that the same rigidity of roles that we deplore could hurt not just women, but men, and find that not a source of satisfaction, but of sorrow?

Because, in short, we have a hard enough time getting people to recognize that the rigidity of these roles DOES hurt women that we lack time or resources to move on to men.

I'm not sure I think that's so bad.
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andBegorrah
07/13/09

@PilgrimSoul: I find it somewhat easier to explain the how and why of those roles' rigidity and pervasive coerciveness by pointing out "The way this hurts me is also hurting you in distinct but inherently connected ways." Sure, it's appealing to the other person's innate selfishness as a way of eliciting empathy, and I'm not trying to play pity poker on who the patriarchy hurts more, but it's an intervention that's inclusive. Group hug!!
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TheFormerJuneBronson
07/13/09

In reply to Merry Widows, Sad Guys: Do Women Finally Have It Better?
I agree that the problem with this paradigm is the desire to generalize. Nobody knows how they'll handle the death of their spouse; it's one of those things that you can't quite understand until you're there and see who you've become and when it happens and what your needs and desires for the future will be.

Besides that, though, the idea of losing my spouse, aside from the grief of losing him, makes me worry about being untethered in a bad way. I'm not the world's most social person, so I don't envision this social life they describe. I think I'd be alone a lot. One of the things I like best about being married is being able to have a family life that is less subject to the vagaries of friendship. But I really don't know.

I think Mr. JB would move back in with his parents immediately if I died. He hated dating.
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cocobanal
07/13/09

In reply to Merry Widows, Sad Guys: Do Women Finally Have It Better?
Nice post. The whole idea of getting older and being lonely is something I've been thinking about a lot lately. I am lonely and I know other people who are. The thing is, with all the people in the world, why are we having so much trouble getting together? Why are there so many lonely people? I could write more and pontificate on this subject because I have been married twice and have experience both with being married for long periods and being single for long periods, but ultimately the fact that people are lonely and isolated and grasping for connections just makes me sad, and that's all.
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TheFormerJuneBronson
07/13/09

@cocobanal: I've noticed as I get older that people have a strong tendency to close ranks, make fewer new friends, rely more heavily on their families, and become more hostile to strangers. I've basically given up on finding a new local bestie; nobody's interested. Maybe as my son gets older, I'll meet people through his school or something. I don't know what it is. I hate to blame it on something vague like the pace of modern life, but I suspect that has something to do with it. Nobody is home, everybody is tired, everybody has non-people-centered means of entertainment. Whatever forced people to entertain each other over their newfangled toasters during the Depression is gone now.
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PilgrimSoul
07/13/09

@TheFormerJuneBronson: I don't know. This is something I think about a lot too, as I think I might be too independent to ever marry anyone, and certainly too much so to bear any children, but I've managed. In the face of not having a very functional immediate family, even, I've managed.

I think that what I've learned is that I have to be a bit of a pest about maintaining non-familial personal relationships, because nothing is taken for granted in them, but it's been completely worth it to build this network. And I don't think it's been made more difficult by technology; I think it's been made easier.
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elliebean
07/13/09

In reply to Merry Widows, Sad Guys: Do Women Finally Have It Better?
I think this article (the Jezebel one) makes an excellent point. Traditional gender roles, as we age, may sort of have the effect of crippling one's ability to be an adult alone, since these roles exclude a certain skill set in a lot of cases. Men might never have had to deal with domestic chores, or women with financial records (as an example). When I think about my parents as they age, regardless of their gender, I want them to have a sense of independence, self-sufficiency, and a social support network already in place to help create that resilience that the widows described in the article seem to have.
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Sadie
07/13/09

@elliebean: The financial corollary is a very good one, I think - I know some older ladies who'd been told never to worry their heads about it - and then had to...
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Penny
07/13/09

In reply to Merry Widows, Sad Guys: Do Women Finally Have It Better?
My love for Harold & Maude knows no bounds.

I think this is a generational thing. When I think about the people in my life who are my parents age and older, I can see the married women dealing better on their own than the married men. I mean, my mom was away last week and my dad survived on canned soup and Hostess Snowballs.

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suck_it_monkeys
11/11/08

In reply to American Widow Project Helps Military Wives Work Through Grief
A good friend of mine is an Iraq war widow and it's been heartbreaking and overwhelming to see what she's dealt with in the two years since his death. The official military response and support was sorely lacking but the community of Army spouses and friends of her husband who served with him in Iraq and vowed to take care of her and her little son has been immensely helpful. She has also had to deal with the sudden influx of wealth, going from lower middle class to being wealthy because of the military insurance/ war widow compensation, and the resulting creeps who have attempted to pursue relationships with her because of the money. Like, single soldiers who KNEW her husband, have lots of debt, and intentionally go after her hoping to marry her and get half her money, and who openly brag about this to their other buddies. So not only did she have to experience deep mourning, but now that the clouds have started to lift she can't even consider dating again because she can't trust anyone. :(

Just another reason to be hopeful about the Obama administration, as both Obamas have stated explicitly that they wish to help military families as much as possible, and expand mental health coverage for returning soldiers, widows and widowers.
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BlondeGrlz
11/11/08

In reply to American Widow Project Helps Military Wives Work Through Grief
There are a lot of very young military widows because there are a lot of very young military marriages. When you know your boyfriend/fiance's job is going to put him in harm's way, you don't spend two years planning a wedding, finishing college, or beginning your career - you get married and start your life with them.

I'm glad Taryn is helping these widows find emotional support, because the military isn't really known for understanding the human side of things. I also hope her husband had the forsight to buy into the military's life insurance policy and that he signed her up for bennefits, because the military does do a pretty good job on the business side.
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suck_it_monkeys
11/11/08

@BlondeGrlz is having a BlondeBoyz!: Yes, even before Iraq young marriages were the norm in the military, because if your boyfriend is about to be stationed in another state or country it truly accelerates things. My dad is in the Army and it was crazy to me when I was like 20 and would visit my parents on base and end up babysitting for these wives while their husbands were deployed or in the field, and they wanted a rare night out- I was an immature college kid babysitting the children of girls younger than me who were basically raising the kids alone because their husbands were always away. Insane.
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Jack_Burton
11/11/08

@BlondeGrlz is having a BlondeBoyz!: It's definitely a very stressful component to a relationship.

But, the benefits are nothing compared to that of WWII. We need a real GI Bill again, like that, so that people can truly realize the benefit of their sacrifice. The true benefit of the WWII Bill was a 30% increase in the college-educated population, and as a result, a much stronger and more prosperous middle class.

The Bush Legacy (Clinton too) has done little to make an all-volunteer Armed Forces economically viable in the long term.

Most of the people I know that have served recently have returned on their 2nd and 3rd tours to work as PMCs, or fought hard to "force" the Govt's hand to get on an skilled officer track, as a way of making sure that they will have a career when they get out.
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