I can see a new terminology coming up where Roman's apologists would call him a "rapist/non-rapist." They would say that he indeed raped a girl BUT he didn't rape again so therefore he wasn't a "rapist" since that day at Jack Nicholson's house. I love semantics.
@viklane: He is an overrated hack, and I thought that before I knew anything about him. Chinatown was BORING, and the Pianist- wow, a holocaust movie did well? What a shocker! Alert the studios, they may not know about this untapped market!
@BlueBeard: I know. Rosemary's Baby was pretty boring, too.
I'm not saying it would somehow be justified if I liked him better, but to claim that he's some kind of filmmaking treasure we need to protect just makes me angrier.
@AndPreciousLittleofThat: You scared me for a minute- Lost is my favorite show ever, and I'd hate for it to be tainted by this mess, so I checked out what Lindelof said.
I don't see any condoning or apologizing for Polanski's behavior, just that his work shouldn't be banned for it. I can sort of understand this, because if I had to boycott the work of every celebrity I disagree with I'd just sell my TV.
I don't like Polanski's work and think he is an overrated hack that other overrated hacks like Scorsese pretend to respect because Hollywood is a self-feeding black hole of stupidity and smugness.
If Polanski wrote my favorite books and directed my favorite movies of all time, I may be inclined to continue reading them, but that has no bearing on whether a person should be sentenced for a crime he plead guilty to (Hint: he should) and in no way should buy him forgiveness from self-important entertainers. Every single person who defends Polanski's rape of a child and flight from prosecution should be slapped and reminded they have no say whatsoever in legal matters.
The victim wants this to go away, why doesn't anyone get that? She even says he has been thru enough crap and to let it go. As the victim, she should really have the final say in what happens. AND, they did not rearrest him for the rape, they arrested him for fleeing the country to avoid whatever the judge was going to sentence him with.
@lmgives: If the victim said she wanted to douse him with gasoline and set fire to him in the public square, would we go with that? No, because the justice system is for society, not individuals.
@lmgives: The victim doesn't have the final say: simply put, if the state of California dropped charges against Polanski and the victim was urging them not to do that, do you think there would be same outcry about respecting the victim's wishes. Of fucking course not.
@lmgives: The fault for this having gone on so long lies 100% with Polanski for having fled. It is horrible for her that it has not gone away, but that is something (another thing!) that Polanski has done to her.
@lmgives: Jane Roe also wants Roe v Wade overturned. Should she have that power just because she wants it to go away? Polanski committed a horrific crime and has gone unpunished.
@FormicaLinoleum: Exactly! It's not the state of California's fault, it's his for fleeing the country. I'm so sick of all the assholes claiming this should be let go because it's gone on for so long, out of consideration for the victim. If they actually gave a fuck about the victim they would not stand behind him now, nor would they have stood behind him for all of those years while he was going on with his life & evading resolution of this matter.
@lmgives: I can see why she wouldn't want this story back in the news. She's lost the anonymity that rape victims (especially minors) typically get, and no one appears to be publicly on her side. High profile people are saying it was consensual, which essentially paints her as a liar, and defending Polanski as a brilliant artist/victim whose life was ruined by this kid vixen who "asked for it".
Its hard enough to deal with the effects of being drugged, sodomized and raped at 13, but to be dragged through the mud like this 30 years later must be awful. I don't blame her for wanting this whole thing to "go away", but that is NOT the same thing as wanting Polanski to escape further punishment.
Whoopi and the rest of the hollywood illiterate - pay your assistant to read the victim's testimony to you. I am saddened and disgusted by the herd mentality of the celebrity "child rapist" supporters.
She still gets it wrong. The point she's missing, and the one I sincerely wish someone would explain to her, is that the other charges were not "dismissed", the were dropped by the prosecutor as part of a plea bargain. Dismissal is an act of court, and if done with prejudice, would in some way indicate that they were baseless. That's not the case. Dropping charges as part of a plea bargain is standard. In this case, the prosecution probably believed they would be able to get the maximum sentence for the lesser charge, and therefore were willing to drop the other charges in exchange for a guilty plea.
What Whoopi continues not to get is that even people who understand the legal facts can still look at the testimony and other facts in this case and come to a very strong conclusion that Roman Polanski raped the victim. The fact that the rape charge was dropped does not in any way change what actually happened. And this is one of those cases where what actually happened is light years more important than the deal the criminal cut with the prosecutors (particularly since he skipped out on that deal anyway, essentially voiding it).
@emfish55: It doesn't matter: every defense of Polanski from a Hollywood type that I've come across this week has been disingenuous. They don't need to be educated, they need to be shamed. Don't forget, Whoopi was an actress long before The View.
Let me make sure I'm keeping 'The View's' priorities straight: they fire Rosie because she said some mean and stupid things about Rupert Murdoch and Donald Trump, but it's okay-dokey for Whoopi to say stupid and mean things that insult and dismiss rape victims? I am once again thankful that I do not watch this show.
@Laines: And apparently The View's audience will cheer for fucking anything and anyone.
Or laugh at any fucking joke, no matter how incredibly offensive and inappropriate (esp. considoring the context.)
How dare Whoopie make a joke about child molestation while trying to "clear the air" about a child rape case.
How dare she make that joke at the expense of another talk-show host who, apparently, was molested as a child.
What a fucking asshole.
@fluxus flucker: Yep. I'm normally good with all kinds of dark or off-colour humour but her molestation comment in this situation was not on. Especially given her epic failure to differentiate between what is, sadly (although understandable), a fairly standard practice of allowing charges to be pled down, and the lesser plea being an accurate descriptor of what occured.
@LittleEdie: Manson didn't physically murder anyone. So I think that makes Polanski's actions far more "rape-rape" than Manson's actions were "murder-murder".
And, yes, this is all ridiculous. Like, ridiculous-ridiculous.
I don't care how many million ways they want to phrase it. "Unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor" w.e Its rape, and I'm pretty sure he only pled guilty to that one term used to describe the rape is because it did not have the word rape in it.
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schlegs84 thinks John Galt can suck it. promoted this comment
Edited by greengrey at 09/30/09 12:00 PM
MacnairCabbichoke was starred
MacnairCabbichoke was unstarred
@MacnairCabbichoke: We can discuss it, we can judge, but it's irrelevant in this case. The law was broken. No amount of influence on part of the mother excuses drugging and raping a girl.
@MacnairCabbichoke: REALLY? Really? I have zero problem with examining the lack of concern committed by a parent. However, to say that blaming the rapist is misguided and we should instead focus more energy on something else? Fail. Sorry.
@MacnairCabbichoke: No, you are. Polanski raped a child. He drugged her and then after repeated "Nos" from her, went ahead and raped her.
Her mother may be a horrible person for leaving her daughter with him, but she most certainly didn't give him permission to rape her daughter.
People like you, who are willing to find any other excuse or person to blame in a case like this, are the reason that so many victims of rape and sexual assault are afraid to come forward. Because they don't get the respect and response they should.
Once more with feeling: POLANSKI RAPED A CHILD. HE IS THE ONLY PERSON TO JUDGE HERE. And? HE ADMITTED IT.
Stop defending a man who didn't even defend himself.
@MacnairCabbichoke: Her mom should not be blamed, and that is something that seems to have hurt the victim as much as the rape. Sure, her mother was probably ecstatic that a renowned movie director wanted to photograph her daughter for French Vogue. (That was the reason I read somewhere, please correct me if I'm wrong.) Not all moms believe people are out to get their daughter, and I'm sure she didn't expect him to have sex with her daughter when her daughter was saying NO. It's easy to judge someone's decisions in hindsight..."Oh, that mother should have been more protective" or "Oh, Urban Meyer should have taken Tebow out because there was a good spread", etc. You can't properly judge a situation with perfect vision of how it turns out, and it isn't fair to anyone involved here.
@MacnairCabbichoke: Well, as long as its the mom's fault. She's no internationally famous filmmaker, right? So no one is gonna get up in arms if she gets thrown in jail.
The mother made an error in judgement. Maybe she thought it would be good for her daughter's career, having her pictures taken for French Vogue. Maybe she thought that the other adults present in the house made for a safe enviroment. Maybe she thought that Polanski had enough HUMAN FUCKING DECENCY to not RAPE A CHILD.
@everyone: Again, this thread is over. Approving trollish comments will get your star taken away. Be selective as to which comments you choose to respond to, please.
09/30/09
its good whoopi wanted to clarify some things, but i would also like her clarify the difference between rape-rape and rape.
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I'm not saying it would somehow be justified if I liked him better, but to claim that he's some kind of filmmaking treasure we need to protect just makes me angrier.
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I don't see any condoning or apologizing for Polanski's behavior, just that his work shouldn't be banned for it. I can sort of understand this, because if I had to boycott the work of every celebrity I disagree with I'd just sell my TV.
I don't like Polanski's work and think he is an overrated hack that other overrated hacks like Scorsese pretend to respect because Hollywood is a self-feeding black hole of stupidity and smugness.
If Polanski wrote my favorite books and directed my favorite movies of all time, I may be inclined to continue reading them, but that has no bearing on whether a person should be sentenced for a crime he plead guilty to (Hint: he should) and in no way should buy him forgiveness from self-important entertainers. Every single person who defends Polanski's rape of a child and flight from prosecution should be slapped and reminded they have no say whatsoever in legal matters.
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Its hard enough to deal with the effects of being drugged, sodomized and raped at 13, but to be dragged through the mud like this 30 years later must be awful. I don't blame her for wanting this whole thing to "go away", but that is NOT the same thing as wanting Polanski to escape further punishment.
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What Whoopi continues not to get is that even people who understand the legal facts can still look at the testimony and other facts in this case and come to a very strong conclusion that Roman Polanski raped the victim. The fact that the rape charge was dropped does not in any way change what actually happened. And this is one of those cases where what actually happened is light years more important than the deal the criminal cut with the prosecutors (particularly since he skipped out on that deal anyway, essentially voiding it).
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Or laugh at any fucking joke, no matter how incredibly offensive and inappropriate (esp. considoring the context.)
How dare Whoopie make a joke about child molestation while trying to "clear the air" about a child rape case.
How dare she make that joke at the expense of another talk-show host who, apparently, was molested as a child.
What a fucking asshole.
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And, yes, this is all ridiculous. Like, ridiculous-ridiculous.
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And the 'but they had sex before' thing?
And wrapping things up this go-round with a molestation joke?
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I thought the mom dropped her off for him to take photos for French Vogue. There was no party.
Anyway yes her mom was wrong (why didn't she stay?) but read the victim's testimony.
09/30/09
Her mother may be a horrible person for leaving her daughter with him, but she most certainly didn't give him permission to rape her daughter.
People like you, who are willing to find any other excuse or person to blame in a case like this, are the reason that so many victims of rape and sexual assault are afraid to come forward. Because they don't get the respect and response they should.
Once more with feeling: POLANSKI RAPED A CHILD. HE IS THE ONLY PERSON TO JUDGE HERE. And? HE ADMITTED IT.
Stop defending a man who didn't even defend himself.
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The mother made an error in judgement. Maybe she thought it would be good for her daughter's career, having her pictures taken for French Vogue. Maybe she thought that the other adults present in the house made for a safe enviroment. Maybe she thought that Polanski had enough HUMAN FUCKING DECENCY to not RAPE A CHILD.
Go burn your strawman somewhere else.
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