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"It Is Not Uncommon For One Or Both Parties To Experience Guilt Or Revulsion."

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rixatrix
10/22/09

In reply to "It Is Not Uncommon For One Or Both Parties To Experience Guilt Or Revulsion."
It seems like looking at marriage practices from times past is always strange (this book is a little more than strange...).

Love is love, sex is sex, money is money. But marriage has represented all these things and more. At times the ideal has been to marry for love, or to marry to move up in life, to make an advantageous power-play for the sake of your family. To keep the family name going within itself. Now it seems the ideal is to marry for love, but also to seek all fulfillment from the person you marry - you're supposed to find your "soul mate." It's funny, isn't it, that it's just another arrangement that we've told ourselves is the one right choice, when we've had several "right choices" throughout history and across cultures?

I'm not advocating for a return to marriage where women were treated like property, but I do think it's interesting to see how much the expectations of marriage have changed across time. In some ways, it seems like there would be less pressure if we weren't encouraged to find "THE ONE" and live "HAPPILY EVER AFTER" only to have our dreams shattered when we find our expectations were set too high. #whenyoumarry
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Vulcan Has No Moon
10/21/09

In reply to "It Is Not Uncommon For One Or Both Parties To Experience Guilt Or Revulsion."
The notion wives should be a 'useless ornament' actually dates back to the Victorian Era. It was considered a status symbol to have a wife that had no skills and did no work. Servants cooked and cleaned and raised the children, while the husband 'brought home the bacon'. The Victorian wife was just expected to be lovely and embroider and draw and condescend to the poor....and have no marketable job skills or earn a wage. Before that women were in all the trades and did just about every job there was but heavy plowing. (Even though I have heard and have seen women being used as a mule to pull a plow so they did that job too.) Before the Victorian Era, with exception to the titled, most women were expected to be able to farm or garden, preserve food and seed, cook, clean, raise animals for meat and cloth (along with butchering them), spin wool into yarn, weave it, sew it into clothes and bedding, chop fire wood, keep the fire going, raise and educate the children, and help out their husband in whatever trade they made their living at.

The 50's housewife 'tradition' is just a re-tread of that rather Victorian ideal. #whenyoumarry
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Sunshineyness
10/22/09

@Vulcan Has No Moon: Yes, thank you. And in fact in the pre-depression era there was a mini-cultural revolution of its own sorts. After all that was the era woman cut their hair, decided wearing twenty undergarments stunk and often worked outside of the home in a variety of jobs. I've seen quite a few interesting pre-code films that actually dealt with the idea of the bored rich housewife that didn't like being an ornament and plenty of literature of the day followed suit.

It was more "what work was good for each gender" that ruled the day as opposed to "women shouldn't work."

It was really the generation after WW2 that decided it needed to go back to a "simpler time" that never really existed. #whenyoumarry
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pesematology
10/22/09

@Vulcan Has No Moon: It actually has its roots in Wilhelmine Germany. #whenyoumarry
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thesciencegirl
10/21/09

In reply to "It Is Not Uncommon For One Or Both Parties To Experience Guilt Or Revulsion."
That eugenics chart just made me gasp out loud. The scientist in me is laughing uproariously at the idea that skin color is a single gene trait. The human being in me is just plain old horrified. #whenyoumarry
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girlwithoutahero
10/21/09

In reply to "It Is Not Uncommon For One Or Both Parties To Experience Guilt Or Revulsion."
I have this!!!! It is the shit. It endorses eugenics. #whenyoumarry
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girlwithoutahero
10/21/09

@girlwithoutahero: to clarify, it is horrible. But I keep it on the bookshelf because the title spine alone sets fear in the eyes of boys #whenyoumarry
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Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.
10/21/09

In reply to "It Is Not Uncommon For One Or Both Parties To Experience Guilt Or Revulsion."
OK, deep breath because I am going to admit something I have only admitted to one other person.

I've been married to my husband for 10+ years and sometimes the thought of sex with him really is revolting. Not all the time, just sometimes. Am I a terrible wife? #whenyoumarry
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kiwibelle
10/21/09

@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: No. Sometimes you're just not in the mood. The time of the month plays a big role for me. You're not alone.

Just to clarify I mean about a week before the event and the week after I totally am NOT in the mood.
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wtfox?! promoted this comment Edited by kiwibelle at 10/21/09 7:15 PM kiwibelle was starred kiwibelle was unstarred

Elaken
10/21/09

@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: I have never been married but my thought is no - you aren't. Sex is such an intimate act (and if I actually think about it, a little on the gross side) that I can see sometimes it just isn't very appealing depending on life circumstances. #whenyoumarry
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sketchyrecipe
10/21/09

@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: I hope not. I think that long term partners have a way of being over-intimate that can only lead to revulsion. I can't talk to you about your constipation problems, pick up your socks for the 5,000th time, and want to make with the sexy all the time. Nature of the beast. #whenyoumarry
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Sarah Dove
10/21/09

@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: Nup. You're just a person with feelings. I guess one question I'd ask is, is the thought of sex WITH HIM or the the thought of SEX with him the revolting part? Not that that determines whether you're terrible. Basically, if it worries you, try to talk it over with a therapist and work out why you're feeling that way and what you could do about it. #whenyoumarry
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lavendermint
10/21/09

@kiwibelle: There are moments when sex of any kind, with any person, seems revolting. It's not that different from hunger--sometimes eating your favorite food(for example) almost makes you want to puke. #whenyoumarry
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Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny. promoted this comment lavendermint was starred lavendermint was unstarred

Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.
10/21/09

@Elaken: Oh thank goodness. Growing up with my father I was constantly bombarded with the male pov. I heard constant complaining from his buddies about frigid wives and lack of sex. So I am very self conscience about it.
I love my husband. We have sex quite often but sometimes the thought of sexual intimacy is actually disgusting. I feel kind of awful about this but the one other person I spoke to it about (also married 10+) said she feels the same way sometimes. It isn't personal. #whenyoumarry
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Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.
10/21/09

@lavendermint: This is a fantastic point. It's been so long since I've been single that I unthinkingly assumed that all single people want sex all the time. #whenyoumarry
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truesy
10/21/09

@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: No. I've been married four months (together 6+) and I occasionally feel the same way. Sex drive is so hormone and emotionally driven, I don't think it has anything to do with him, or with me. #whenyoumarry
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WagaMama
10/21/09

@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: Married almost seven years. There are times of the month where my attitude is "OK, we can do it, but don't put your face near my face." I think as long as you don't feel like that all of the time, you're fine.

It's easy to forget that for women, sex drive really is cyclical, whereas men's is fairly constant. For some reason, we tend to just assume that women have a low sex drive and then we read all of those awful magazine articles about how to "fix" it. Yuck. #whenyoumarry
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TransFat
10/21/09

In reply to "It Is Not Uncommon For One Or Both Parties To Experience Guilt Or Revulsion."
I think that graph looks like a dinosaur and consequently feel like this view gives the graph more creedence (maybe it's because I was weaned later). Love Experiece! Chomp Chomp Chomp... #whenyoumarry
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SarahMC
10/21/09

In reply to "It Is Not Uncommon For One Or Both Parties To Experience Guilt Or Revulsion."
If there is one thing I have always associated with the working class it's having fewer troubles than the middle class.
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Edited by SarahMC at 10/21/09 7:16 PM SarahMC was starred SarahMC was unstarred

KATE!
10/21/09

@SarahMC: i subscribe to the biggie small's philosophy on inter-class realtions: "mo money mo problems"

it appears this 50's suburban WASPs did as well! #whenyoumarry
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Lizard in the Wires - synthesizer signals suspense!
10/21/09

In reply to "It Is Not Uncommon For One Or Both Parties To Experience Guilt Or Revulsion."
I did a lot of found footage work with Duvall-Hill film strips (there's at least one that goes along with this curriculum).

I have a weird fascination with them. I find them interesting and kind of hate that they get thrown into the "wacky news" category, when they're this cool little peek into social controls of the past. It's like letters from Big Brother. Maybe I'm just a geek about source material type stuff.

If you're looking for more fun go to archive.org and search for "Boys Beware!" to learn about the homosexual and his disease.
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Breamworthy promoted this comment Edited by Lizard in the Wires - synthesizer signals suspense! at 10/21/09 7:16 PM

formergr
10/21/09

@Lizard in the Wires now with even MORE metal in the face!: Love film strips!

I have a DVD series-- The Educational Archives-- that has all those old film clips. I got it after being captivated by the hygiene films that MST3K used to mock. One that I remember vividly was about the importance of having good posture, and that you should have a "posture pal" at school to help each other remind to stand up straight. #whenyoumarry
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Lizard in the Wires - synthesizer signals suspense!
10/21/09

@formergr: lol I've seen that one! I've seen SO many of them. A lot of times when random places (especially Colbert Report and Daily Show) use stock 50's footage I can name the strip it was from. #whenyoumarry
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Sunshineyness
10/22/09

@Lizard in the Wires now with even MORE metal in the face!: I'm really into this stuff too. Archive.org is a great resource for that kind of stuff.

BTW, the "Girls Beware!" rebuttal is all sorts of horrific (though not about lesbianism) as well.

I got a collection of cult classics off of Amazon a bit back and it was a great collection of awesome scare films from the 30's-50's.
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Edited by Sunshineyness at 10/22/09 2:21 AM Sunshineyness was starred Sunshineyness was unstarred

Lizard in the Wires - synthesizer signals suspense!
10/22/09

@Sunshineyness: I've seen that one too. That one is more of a time capsule of teen car culture, and how much more trusting people were (because you lived in the suburbs where it was "safe" to babysit for total strangers). #whenyoumarry
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curiousgeorgiana
10/21/09

In reply to "It Is Not Uncommon For One Or Both Parties To Experience Guilt Or Revulsion."
I love how the "working class" is grayed out while "middle class" is in bold. Very subtle... #whenyoumarry
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TransFat
10/21/09

@curiousgeorgiana: ...I would make the obvious connection with our own commenter class but I'm too busy having less premarital sex intercourse.
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Edited by TransFat at 10/21/09 7:06 PM TransFat was starred TransFat was unstarred

curiousgeorgiana
10/21/09

@TransFat: Exactly. I'm going to go back to potty training my imaginary baby now. #whenyoumarry
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lo-mantang
10/21/09

@curiousgeorgiana: holy fuck, and how they make the noses on the "if a negro mates with a white" faces different. #whenyoumarry
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curiousgeorgiana
10/21/09

@lo-mantang: Wow. I missed that one. That's disturbing. #whenyoumarry
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lo-mantang
10/21/09

@curiousgeorgiana: i think the subtle message this particular totally scientific flow chart is conveying is that if you marry outside your race your kids will look like African masks. #whenyoumarry
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