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New York, 5:46 AM
Thu Nov 12
67 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of podbaydoor podbaydoor
    12/31/08

    In reply to "Not Rape Epidemic": The Modeling Industry Is Anything But Immune
    Good piece, but what I don't understand is you not taking charge in that situation. I don't know how old you were and perhaps not secure enough, but what about telling the guy; 'hey, it's after 3am, I'm going to bed, alone, you need to go.' So what if the guy tried to make you feel bad, but hinting at something like you're no 'fun'. I sometimes get the feeling some women want to be liked more, then doing what's right for them.
     Reply
    podbaydoor was starred podbaydoor was unstarred
    Image of Southpaw Southpaw
    12/31/08

    @podbaydoor: Um, I think she made it pretty clear she wasn't into it. Like this, for example: I thought if I said clear, standard-issue stuff like "Don't do that," he might abide it. (Wrong.)
     Reply
    Southpaw was starred Southpaw was unstarred
    Image of Tyler Laing Tyler Laing
    12/31/08

    @podbaydoor: She did everything she could. What is she supposed to do when a more assertive action will get her looked at negatively? When it would cause her to be seen as overreacting, as being a "bitch"(their word, not mine).


    If you see my comment before yours, You'd see how even the simple stuff, which could easily rate a strong 'No' aren't given a reaction. It becomes "normal" and accepted for guys to pursue women like that. And it becomes the woman's fault if she's uncomfortable. This is not right. Attitudes like yours are the problem here for many women.


    Get this straight: It doesn't matter what the women do, they are still Not Raped. Whether they fight it, or accept it, in society's eyes, she is at fault.

     Reply
    Tyler Laing was starred Tyler Laing was unstarred
    Image of podbaydoor podbaydoor
    12/31/08

    @Tyler Laing: She did everything she could? No she did not, she went and go see a movie with him, consented to him rubbing her shoulders. In my point of view she did everything wrong. She did NOT send him away.


    Attitudes like mine are factually the solution to bastards like that guy. And I'm speaking from experience, a "straight male" like you would not understand. Actually, it's attitudes like, women being afraid as being a 'bitch' or being called overreacting, or worried what society thinks, and that was the main problem I was addressing.

    There are women so desperately wanting to be liked, that they even sacrifice their freedom of speech.

     Reply
    podbaydoor was starred podbaydoor was unstarred
    Image of Grim Reaper of the Forest Grim Reaper of the Forest
    12/31/08

    @podbaydoor: I think the problem is when a guy is being blatantly an asshole and ignoring subtle hints and blatant requests for him to stop and go home (remember, this wasn't her place so she wasn't in control of whether or not he stayed) this puts her in the position of having to cause a huge scene, and wake up her friend and his girlfriend. So yes, maybe she is worried about how she is perceived, but I bet if he were clearly going to rape-rape her, so wouldn't have hesitated. I've been in this position in bars where guys won't take no for an answer to dance or get my number, and I'm forced to either call over the bartender or totally bitch them out, and they react quite hostilely to that.
     Reply
    Grim Reaper of the Forest was starred Grim Reaper of the Forest was unstarred
    Image of podbaydoor podbaydoor
    12/31/08

    @treecut...Grim Reaper of the forest: Yes, agreed. And I'm not saying I'm blaming her, like others misread, I am saying he's the asshole here. But, I too, have been in situations where a guy wouldn't back down, so I step it up a notch in setting my boundaries, and who gives a fuck what others, or especially the asshole, may think of me.

    Remember, this was after 3 am, all the other guests had gone, the host had gone to bed, she would have been in her right place to tell the fucker that she was going to bed, and he needed to go, NOW! And if the next morning the host would have mentioned to her how rude, she could have explained the situation. But her story reads to me as a girl who doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings, including an asshole's feelings, except her own, and I really don't get that.
     Reply
    podbaydoor was starred podbaydoor was unstarred
    Image of Grim Reaper of the Forest Grim Reaper of the Forest
    12/31/08

    @podbaydoor: @misapostrophe: I can see where you guys are coming from, but it is hard to judge the situation depending on how good a friend the other guy was, what other options she had in the city, etc. I know as a bitchy, 31 year old lady, I would have no qualms, but when I was younger and more insecure it was easier to be intimidated by a guy. I don't want to blame society for everything, but I think it is hard for some girls when it is both overtly and covertly taught that you are not supposed to make a scene, and a bitch is the worst thing you can be. I think a lot of the "not rape" that was discussed here and in the original piece happened to young women who don't know yet how far they can push back without getting in trouble, getting hurt, or yes, getting a reputation as a frigid bitch.
     Reply
    Grim Reaper of the Forest was starred Grim Reaper of the Forest was unstarred
    Image of resonanteye resonanteye
    12/31/08

    In reply to "Not Rape Epidemic": The Modeling Industry Is Anything But Immune
    The finest words in the human language are "If you touch me again I am going to hurt you. I don't care if you like me or not."
     Reply
    resonanteye was starred resonanteye was unstarred
    Image of popture popture
    12/30/08

    In reply to "Not Rape Epidemic": The Modeling Industry Is Anything But Immune
    As one of the -and I optimistically believe it's a majority- good guys... what can we do to help?
     Reply
    popture was starred popture was unstarred
    Image of sybann sybann
    12/30/08

    @popture: keep an eye out for the women you know - help us protect ourselves and each other, AND educate the assholes who make light of it or blame the victim. BIG KISS! but only if you want it.
     Reply
    sybann was starred sybann was unstarred
    Image of sportz.star sportz.star
    12/30/08

    In reply to "Not Rape Epidemic": The Modeling Industry Is Anything But Immune
    This was amazing. I was not raped by an ex-boyfriend who was still a friend and I was sharing a bed with (a large bed) in a crowded house. People needed places to sleep, but he took that to mean that a 3 AM, long after I had fallen asleep, he should put his hands all over and in me. I still shudder when I see him.


    A similar thing happened at a college party sleeping on the floor next to a girl friend and her boyfriend. I woke up to him touching me and then later found out that he told my friend I had come on to him.


    Neither was rape. But it did help to talk about it, thena dn now.

     Reply
    sportz.star was starred sportz.star was unstarred
    Image of andthentheresme andthentheresme
    12/30/08

    In reply to "Not Rape Epidemic": The Modeling Industry Is Anything But Immune
    I'm not exactly sure when it happened but at some point over the past year and a half or so, but for me Jezebel morphed from being a fun, snarky, interesting blog by women into a life altering necessity.


    I can't tell you how many women I speak to about Jez and how much it really affects our lives. For the better, obvi.


    I've been meaning to write a love letter of sorts to Jezebel and this seems as good of time as any.


    I heart you, Jez, you help make me into a stronger woman.


    Me

     Reply
    andthentheresme was starred andthentheresme was unstarred
    Image of sybann sybann
    12/30/08

    @andthentheresme: THIS is why we need to speak, silence = sickness.
     Reply
    sybann was starred sybann was unstarred
    Image of GirlFailer GirlFailer
    12/30/08

    In reply to "Not Rape Epidemic": The Modeling Industry Is Anything But Immune
    Let me guess... You would never put yourself in that position.
     Reply
    GirlFailer was starred GirlFailer was unstarred
    Image of GirlFailer GirlFailer
    12/30/08

    @Fromthehallsofmontezuma: That was to skidoonevada. Sorry
     Reply
    GirlFailer was starred GirlFailer was unstarred
    Image of GirlFailer GirlFailer
    12/30/08

    In reply to "Not Rape Epidemic": The Modeling Industry Is Anything But Immune
    assaulted*
     Reply
    GirlFailer was starred GirlFailer was unstarred
    Image of GirlFailer GirlFailer
    12/30/08

    In reply to "Not Rape Epidemic": The Modeling Industry Is Anything But Immune
    Have you ever been sexually assualted?
     Reply
    GirlFailer was starred GirlFailer was unstarred
    Image of GirlFailer GirlFailer
    12/30/08

    @Fromthehallsofmontezuma: Also meant for skidoonevada... Sorry
     Reply
    GirlFailer was starred GirlFailer was unstarred
    Image of SkidooNevada SkidooNevada
    12/30/08

    In reply to "Not Rape Epidemic": The Modeling Industry Is Anything But Immune
    t lttl dscrgng t rd th cmmnts frm wmn wh wr t frd t rng fr th flght ttndnt r psh th gy wy r gt th hll t f bd sttn. s ths wht th fmnst rvltn spwnd? Nc grls wh cn't dfnd thmslvs? ndrstnd tht 14 yr ld s sly pryd pn, bt 19 nd 20 yr lds?

    Wh tld y t ws ky t lt yr bds b smn's plygrnd?
     Reply
    SkidooNevada was starred SkidooNevada was unstarred
    Image of Hazel Hazel
    12/30/08

    @SkidooNevada: Who told you it was okay to be a jerk? Who told THEM it was okay to use our bodies as THEIR playground?
     Reply
    Hazel was starred Hazel was unstarred
    Image of AvocadoGills: purveyor of kinky fish porn AvocadoGills: purveyor of kinky fish porn
    12/30/08

    @SkidooNevada: There's a difference between imagining yourself in that position and actually being in that position. Even those of us who consider ourselves strong, self-respecting women can frequently freeze up when we feel our safety is being threatened.
     Reply
    AvocadoGills: purveyor of kinky fish porn was starred AvocadoGills: purveyor of kinky fish porn was unstarred
    Image of sybann sybann
    12/30/08

    @SkidooNevada: It's called fucking shock - and you'd know it if you'd been through it. It's fucking unbelievable when it's happening to you - and we're often too young to even know what's going on. Fuckwit.
     Reply
    sybann was starred sybann was unstarred
    Image of Hana Maru Hana Maru
    12/30/08

    In reply to "Not Rape Epidemic": The Modeling Industry Is Anything But Immune
    Paulina Porizkova has talked about seeing some tv drama about sexual harassment with another model and they were both incredulous at what was considered sexual harassment given their experiences in the industry. She said that it was a nonevent if you were sitting somewhere at 14 and the photographer came up and laid his penis on your bare shoulder. You couldn't do anything about it.
     Reply
    Hana Maru was starred Hana Maru was unstarred
    Image of AvocadoGills: purveyor of kinky fish porn AvocadoGills: purveyor of kinky fish porn
    12/30/08

    @HanaMaru: It makes me sad that there exists an industry that effectively desensitizes women to sexual abuse.
     Reply
    AvocadoGills: purveyor of kinky fish porn was starred AvocadoGills: purveyor of kinky fish porn was unstarred
    Image of sassy sassy
    12/30/08

    In reply to "Not Rape Epidemic": The Modeling Industry Is Anything But Immune
    I never really thought about the comments/random gropings as anything other than one of the daily hassles of interacting witht he public.

    My previous long-term relationship involved a year and a half of guilt-induced sex, where I'd have just gotten home from the emergency room for an arthritis flare-up so bad I couldn't walk, and my boyfriend at the time would whine and cry that it hurt too much for him to go without sex, so I'd lay there while he pulled out the bottle of lube and got himself off.


    I didn't realize until 6 months ago that that isn't how a relationship is supposed to work.


    Even now, with my current boyfriend, if he knows I'm not feeling well and doesn't try to initiate sex, I start to wonder if he wants to break up with me or doesn't care about me anymore, and I know for a fact that isn't the case, but I still start freaking out about it.


    Thank you for this post, a lot.

     Reply
    sassy was starred sassy was unstarred
    Image of AvocadoGills: purveyor of kinky fish porn AvocadoGills: purveyor of kinky fish porn
    12/30/08

    @sassy: "Even now, with my current boyfriend, if he knows I'm not feeling well and doesn't try to initiate sex, I start to wonder if he wants to break up with me or doesn't care about me anymore, and I know for a fact that isn't the case, but I still start freaking out about it."


    I've never had such difficult experiences as you, and the boys I've dated have always respected my boundaries, but somehow I got it through my head that boys will only stay with me if I give them sex. Thank you, society.


    Fortunately, I'm working through this and learning how to respect myself more than that.

     Reply
    AvocadoGills: purveyor of kinky fish porn was starred AvocadoGills: purveyor of kinky fish porn was unstarred
    Image of sassy sassy
    12/30/08

    @NakedGills: I wish I knew what it was exactly that caused that feeling. Even before I was in that relationship I still felt that way, and I've never been able to figure out why.
     Reply
    sassy was starred sassy was unstarred
    Image of GirlFailer GirlFailer
    12/30/08

    In reply to "Not Rape Epidemic": The Modeling Industry Is Anything But Immune
    For a really long time I never realized that this happened to other people. I thought it was my fault for being too drunk, and not sending out "Get away from me" signals loudly enough. A lot of it comes from the way I was raised. My conservative Catholic aunt told me once, "That's too short. If it's not for sale don't advertise."

    When i was 17 I drank too much at a friends house and woke up with a guy I sort of knew performing a sexual act on me. I went to school with him. I just pushed him off and rolled into a ball. Never told anyone. I saw him every day in school and felt ashamed. I felt disgusted with myself for getting so drunk and I "let that happen". It took me many years to realize it wasn't my fault and how often this shit happens. When I was in the military, a guy broke in my room when I was sleeping, and passed out on the end of my bed. My roommate woke me up and asked me who he was... and why was he in a chair passed out next to my bed. I was freaked out and didn't know what to do, so I woke him up and he bolted. I tried to chase after him but he got out too quickly. Never found out who he was. I told someone (read: a superior) about it and they asked me if I was sure that I didn't invite him into my room, then decide I didn't want him there anymore? Or, was I making this up? I can't imagine what would have happened if he hadn't passed out.


    I wish that I had went to someone about the guy that assaulted me in high school, and I wish someone had taken me seriously when I actually fucking told someone about a dude that broke into my room, and passed out on my bed.

    Sorry I just needed to get that off my chest.

     Reply
    GirlFailer was starred GirlFailer was unstarred
    Image of AvocadoGills: purveyor of kinky fish porn AvocadoGills: purveyor of kinky fish porn
    12/30/08

    @Fromthehallsofmontezuma: "Sorry I just needed to get that off my chest."


    That's what we're here for =)

     Reply
    AvocadoGills: purveyor of kinky fish porn was starred AvocadoGills: purveyor of kinky fish porn was unstarred
    Image of gherkinfiend gherkinfiend
    12/30/08

    In reply to "Not Rape Epidemic": The Modeling Industry Is Anything But Immune
    @646Hedgie3: I understand all your points, but the article is about 'not rape'...and sometimes even a man who would never force himself on a woman still says or does something that makes a woman uncomfortable, and Tatiana is saying that women should have the chance to say it makes them uncomfortable.


    That's what I and pretty much every other poster have been commenting on, and your first response is 'fuck that'?


    Apparently even here on a thread about safety and security we women can't say something we've been thinking without a guy kicking off when he hears something he doesn't fully agree with. 'Fuck that' cancels out the rest of your comment

     Reply
    gherkinfiend was starred gherkinfiend was unstarred
    Image of LoSpaz LoSpaz
    12/30/08

    In reply to "Not Rape Epidemic": The Modeling Industry Is Anything But Immune
    I've had a few shitty not-rape experiences. I was groped by a guy on a bicycle a few years ago while walking down the street. He rode off after stopping in the middle of the street to call me a whore, a cunt, a bitch, repeatedly, after I yelled at him to fuck off, while some guy watched and took a video with his camera phone (and not for ID purposes, he laughed at me when he was done and walked off). No cops anywhere. I went into a police station and the cop said they couldn't do anything but I should make sure to be aware of my surroundings from now on. He wasn't mean but I cried the whole way home.


    My husband, who was sympathetic, asked me why I didn't tip over the guy's bike. I don't know, except to explain that it wasn't my first thought. But I don't know what was my first thought. Killing the guy with the camera phone?


    I shared this experience on a message board I used to belong to, along with a few other harassment experiences, and got attacked by a group of women who accused me of making up the stories for attention and for having an inflated idea of how attractive I was. It was like being not-raped all over again. I'm so thankful for this forum and can't express how much the stories here mean to me.

     Reply
    LoSpaz was starred LoSpaz was unstarred
    Image of exelizabeth exelizabeth
    12/30/08

    @LoSpaz: Oh my goodness, the reactions of women like that are just awful and shocking. I remember you having told this story before, and it's very scary.
     Reply
    exelizabeth was starred exelizabeth was unstarred
    Image of labeled labeled
    12/30/08

    In reply to "Not Rape Epidemic": The Modeling Industry Is Anything But Immune
    PSA, if you've somehow skipped Latoya's original essay linked in the above post, run, don't walk to read it.
     Reply
    labeled was starred labeled was unstarred
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