I don't get a lot of the comments here, unless people just didn't read the article (which is probably the case). The articles don't talk about child-free couples at all. The comparison was between married parents and single/separated/cohabitating parents. #children
This seems like one of those examples of "bad" surveys that we studied in Stats 101. What were these people going to do, say that they wished they had less kids? #children
@voteforme: Even though I hate it when economists do social science research, that is what they asked.
They looked at data that included a happiness question over 15 years. They were not asking, "So, now that you have a kid, how happy are you?" #children
Did it occur to the researcher that maybe people who are "single, separated or living together" have negative feelings about parenthood because they don't want kids? Idiots. #children
@Ack: Did you read the article? They're pretty clearly referring to parents who are "single, separated or living together." The Telegraph article is entitled "Children make married parents happier." Their point, however flawed it may be, is that married people are made happier by having kids, single/separate/living together aren't. #children
@Maritsa: No I didn't, just the Jez article, which has the text from the actual article, which says, "By contrast those who are single, separated or living together are more likely to have negative feelings about parenthood." I'm not really understanding what your disagreement is. #children
@Ack: The article is only about parents - comparing the happiness levels of married parents to single/separated/living together parents. You seemed to be suggesting in your initial comment that the study was stupid because it was comparing parents to non-parents, the latter of which probably didn't want kids, hence their negative feelings about parenthood. #children
Some people like to talk about how happy they are all the time. They have status updates and albums devoted to their happiness. Often these albums are full of pictures of ultrasounds or babies. Sometimes, dogs or pictures of a girls' trip to NYC!.
But sometimes you meet these people for lunch and they have this look in their eyes that's aggressively and desperately happy and you answer their happiness-filled anecdotes with awkward non-sequiturs. If someone came along with a happiness survey, they would totally score higher than you would, with your "how am I still hung over on Thursday from Saturday" or "Anyone remember the show Living Dolls?" status updates.
But you probably wouldn't want to trade lives with them. #children
"raising kids makes married people happier", and that "the more they have, the happier they are"
Huh. I guess all my friends who divorced once they had toddlers and babies in the house must not have gotten their Happiness Memo.
I could imagine, however, that a married couple who both share the attitude that having a herd of children is a desirable goal might actually get happier with each new addition. #children
@UrbanAchiever: Upon much casual observation, I've come to the conclusion that kids destroy marriages. Nearly all of my friends had divorced parents by high school, they all were divorced by the time their kids were toddling, conversely all of the older couples that I know that are child free are coming up on 30 years of marriage. Dogs seem to make happier couples. #children
@DaniFae: Well, I think long-term romantic relationships just aren't always easy to maintain over the decades, and kids can definitely be a stress factor that overwhelms a relationship.
But as a parent who has been happily married to the same person for a couple of decades, I can verify that we are out there.
I just feel strongly that blanket prescriptions for any particular life choice amount to a bunch of hooey.
Woofty, that's a lot of children. My grandma's best friend had 18 children. It was the 40's, they were Catholic.The family was supported solely by the father's income as a assembly line GM employee, and yet they lived comfortably and did not struggle financially, anymore than anyone else, which would be absolutely impossible today. Back then, yes, 18 children was still A LOT, but not unheard of. Today, they'd probably have a reality show or at the very least, an episode of Extreme Home Makeover and/or lots of public assistance, they'd be a media circus, regardless, people would bitch about the drain on public resources, irresponsibility of having that many children, etc.
That being said, I can't imagine having 3 children let alone 18, nor do I think it is a reasonable assumption that herds of children are the source of marital bliss. Happy people with lots of children does not mean that all those children are the source (or the only source) of the happiness. I doubt Dr. Angeles managed to isolate this single factor without other variables complicating things. That's why all a study like this claiming to have the final word on human behavior and the solution to well-being are to be taken with a grain of salt if not dismissed entirely: 1. It was published in something called the "Journal of Happiness Studies" (for God's sake, really? Journal of Happiness Studies"????) and 2. Correlation does NOT equal causation. #children
Have the "happier with every child people" talked to the "death of brain cells caused by excessive sleep loss" people? There might be a correlation we're missing. #children
Why do I have the feeling that this is a guy who probably views childhood games of "Operation" as relevant to his medical experience?
From his bio...
"Dr. Angeles, who has performed over 100 "Butterflies in the Stomach"-ectomies, has also successful removed the Breadbasket without touching the sides of the "stomach." He believes happiness is probably located somewhere near the Funnybone, but KNOWS that the Ankle Bone's Connected to the Knee Bone."
Of course you get progressively happier with each child you have. It increases the odds they'll bother the crap out of each other and leave you alone. #children
So one study says that kids increase happiness, while another says that kids decrease happiness. I think this is conclusive evidence that there is no "one size fits all" approach, and people should do whatever makes THEM happy in regards to marriage/nonmarriage and parenting/nonparenting. #children
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I am shocked -- SHOCKED! -- I tell you. And yes, to my sinister onion of a heart, children=occurrences. #children
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They looked at data that included a happiness question over 15 years. They were not asking, "So, now that you have a kid, how happy are you?" #children
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My best friend in Grade 1 had 16 siblings and her mother seemed happy to me. Could never call anyone by their right name, but happy. #children
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Some people like to talk about how happy they are all the time. They have status updates and albums devoted to their happiness. Often these albums are full of pictures of ultrasounds or babies. Sometimes, dogs or pictures of a girls' trip to NYC!.
But sometimes you meet these people for lunch and they have this look in their eyes that's aggressively and desperately happy and you answer their happiness-filled anecdotes with awkward non-sequiturs. If someone came along with a happiness survey, they would totally score higher than you would, with your "how am I still hung over on Thursday from Saturday" or "Anyone remember the show Living Dolls?" status updates.
But you probably wouldn't want to trade lives with them. #children
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Huh. I guess all my friends who divorced once they had toddlers and babies in the house must not have gotten their Happiness Memo.
I could imagine, however, that a married couple who both share the attitude that having a herd of children is a desirable goal might actually get happier with each new addition. #children
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But as a parent who has been happily married to the same person for a couple of decades, I can verify that we are out there.
I just feel strongly that blanket prescriptions for any particular life choice amount to a bunch of hooey.
Life: it's not one-size-fits-all. #children
10/27/09
On the other hand people who don't want kids and don't have them will be happy and people who don't want kids and have them will be unhappy.
Maybe each study just got the wrong groups of parents/kidless people. #children
10/27/09
That being said, I can't imagine having 3 children let alone 18, nor do I think it is a reasonable assumption that herds of children are the source of marital bliss. Happy people with lots of children does not mean that all those children are the source (or the only source) of the happiness. I doubt Dr. Angeles managed to isolate this single factor without other variables complicating things. That's why all a study like this claiming to have the final word on human behavior and the solution to well-being are to be taken with a grain of salt if not dismissed entirely: 1. It was published in something called the "Journal of Happiness Studies" (for God's sake, really? Journal of Happiness Studies"????) and 2. Correlation does NOT equal causation. #children
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From his bio...
"Dr. Angeles, who has performed over 100 "Butterflies in the Stomach"-ectomies, has also successful removed the Breadbasket without touching the sides of the "stomach." He believes happiness is probably located somewhere near the Funnybone, but KNOWS that the Ankle Bone's Connected to the Knee Bone."
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