Jezebel 
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New York, 6:08 AM
Sun Nov 8
22 posts in the last 24 hours
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10/18/09
Not that women should be deciding what they want to look like based on male preferences or national averages or whatever, but it does seem to be generally true that the "super-skinny" ideal is not really an ideal established and propagated by men who are sexually attracted to women.
As to what this has to do with gay men, I don't know, except that I'm assuming gay men may have slightly different standards as to what constitutes "attractive" than straight men do.
I know that I have different standards for male attractiveness than my gay friends, so--whether statistically supported or not--it seems that the conclusion isn't completely outlandish. #fashion
10/18/09
10/18/09
10/18/09
10/18/09
10/18/09
10/18/09
Right. Because "gay" is the same as "liking young boys." #fashion
10/18/09
10/18/09
10/17/09
10/17/09
thank pete my husband isn't like that :) #fashion
10/17/09
10/17/09
If anything, it's other women in the industry who promote these images; it's an insecure competitiveness that is rife, but it's there. Straight men don't find skeletal girls attractive in the least.
People speak of gay designers as culpable- but they're figureheads, women are the ones who actually run the businesses, the magazines, to a large degree. The real work of fashion. (Though Bitchy Uncle Karl's obnoxious comments are indeed awful- that's what he does though, doesn't he? )
Just thinking aloud here, not saying it's right. #fashion
10/18/09
10/18/09
10/17/09
Insecure heterosexual men who perceive diminutive or very very thin women as weak and easily controlled?
Come on, Irene. Last time you poked your head out of the mole-hole and hit the front page, you didn't get it right that time either.
*eyeroll*
10/18/09
10/18/09
Gently? You're almost as adept as Irene, the original writer, at leaping to unsupported conclusions. I've certainly seen the phenomenon I described, but it does not necessarily follow that all men attracted to thin or diminutive women are insecure. And I think, at the end of the day, you know that's not what I wrote.
But maybe you just needed someone to pick on today. Judging by the time you wrote your comment, it's 3:21 AM where you are. Bad day?
(I also must admit I figured someone might read it wrong, and take the incorrect reading personally. At least it took a whole seven hours for you to turn up.)
10/19/09
My comment may be funnier if you know that I am very thin and also very opinionated. When I said "That's a laugh," I was also being sincere. Your comment genuinely amused me.
The timestamps on comments are all NYC time, and I'm on the west coast. It was slightly after midnight my time. I'd just come home from a Kevin Smith event--it was a pretty good Saturday. Thanks for asking. #fashion
10/19/09
That came through.
Thanks for asking. #fashion
10/17/09
Of course all women are beautiful as they are, and any man who is attracted to any woman should love her for who she is. Her size should not be a factor. Obviously. Ok.
But. As far as our own personal sense of sexuality being a factor in what body shapes we find attractive, we might be filtering the options based on our own subconscious perceptions of ourselves.
A male who is deeply closeted or homophobic might tend to be attracted to women who are very curvy, regardless of weight and size. Because they are undeniably female, with as little resemblance to males as possible. Big boobs and hips, long hair, long eyelashes, feminine clothing, etc.
Which doesn't mean that liking more androgynous or masculine women means that you're gay. But I think that in order to have the entire spectrum open to you as possibilities for what you will find attractive, you have to have a certain level of security in your own sexuality. Whatever it may be. And if you are gay, being comfortable with your sexuality means facing & embracing that.
I don't think that men, gay or straight, ONLY find thin/androgynous women attractive. But maybe, as you are becoming more comfortable with your own sexuality, you become more comfortable being attracted to a more androgynous woman. And maybe, ultimately, you are gay. Maybe not.
Look at any group of people where the men tend to be homophobic and sexist, and you'll see a very narrow variety of women as their girlfriends. Look at a group of people where the men tend to be feminists and work toward acceptance & equality, and their girlfriends come in all different shapes and sizes.
Mainstream machismo dude bros love Kim Kardashian. Indie boys are crazy about Karen O. Both are beautiful women. But the dude bros might look at Karen O, and think "ew". The indie boys might not have any reason to like Kim, but they're not as likely to outright insult her based on her appearance alone.
As far as gay men and fashion goes... There seem to be two camps. One does prefer thinness, and this can be for a lot of different reasons. One reaction against societal pressure for women to be ultra-feminine and curvy, and for men to desire that, is to get confused and become disgusted with the form itself, instead of the intent behind it. Another reason is because they are trying to create gender ambiguity, or gender neutrality. I'm not saying either is right or wrong or excusing anyone for anything, but from a purely artistic stance I think this is why it happens.
The other camp has more of a reclaiming attitude; take something that is being used in an offensive and hurtful way, and transform it. This is where drag queens and designers like Heatherette fall. They love women, of all varieties, and can recognize femininity in any form. They embrace playing with the idea of gender. But they also tend to create more outrageous fashions, and hold attitudes that are much less digestible by the majority of people. So their work is kind of niche; if you're wearing something they made, it's not likely it's by accident.
I hope that this made sense. #fashion
10/17/09
10/17/09
ED's are so much more complicated than anyone ever wants to admit. And I'm appalled that a therapist who specialized in them in them would take such an incredibly unuanced and unhelpful tactic.
The fashion industry and these images don't cause ED's. They can be triggers for them, they are part of the cultural pressure for women to maintain beauty ideals, and they do promote a lot of extremely unhealthy ideas about bodies and what women should be valued for.
Which all exists in the -entire- culture, the way we socialize girls, the way we value women, the way our bodies are commodified and treated as public property. The way we're blamed for not meeting whatever arbitrary standard has been idealized, and then further blamed for being effected by all of it at all. It's a vicious, horrible, cycle.
But you can't fix it by claiming it has anything to do with gay male designers, and you definitely can't do anything about it by telling women that straight men prefer whatever else. It's not true, for one thing, and it should never be what your self worth is hinged on anyway.
Sorry, lot to say on this subject today. I've been in treatment for ED and Body Dysmorphia for most of this year and I'm sick to death of how much people don't understand about it, and how stupidity like the article derail something that's a painful and difficult disorder to deal with, without making it seem like we all either should blame the media...or blame ourselves. It's all a hot mess that works in tandem to fuck us up. #fashion
10/17/09
10/17/09
-It assumes skinny women are never conventionally attractive, and should feel bad about themselves.
-It usually hinges on the belief that gay men are all pedophiles attracted to boys and boyish men: extremely thin models don't resemble an average man, or even an average idealized man. They usually look like extremely thin women. I say this is related to a homophobic belief that gay men are pedophiles because I've often heard people say that "only gay men like women that look like 'little boys.'"
-It implies that the worst thing about anorexia is that it makes women "not sexy" to men anymore: Stop being sick! It's ugly! #fashion
10/17/09
One thing that bothers me is when people point out very unattractive fashion/modeling photos and blame it on the girl's thinness. More often than not, she's been styled in a bizarre or sickly fashion, or photoshopped to look weird. It's not that thinness is inherently unattractive, which is a nasty reaction I'm hearing too often. Of course, beauty is subjective, but I often look at those models and think "they could have made her look amazing and instead it's like they deliberately tried to make her look unappealing." #fashion