Oh, great! "I Punched Snooki" t-shirts! I love it! This will go perfectly with my "I Raped Dr. Melfi" sweatshirt and my "I Shot Bambi's Mother" underpants! All I need now is a pair of "I Am Colonel Kurtz" gym shorts and I'll be all set!
Well...the only good thing I have to say is that at least Snookie has quickly risen to the top of the Jersey Shore cast? Good for her- it seems she wanted that and at least she got something out of that terrible incident? I don't know. I've got nothing...
Dudes, if you want to stop this epidemic of dudes punching each other in the face then, dudes, stop punching each other in the face. And if harassing women leads to dude-on-dude face-punching, then don't harass women.
@Ginmar Rienne: I'm sorry but you cant compare the removal of the clitoris hood to male circumcision. Exposing the clitoris causes extreme pain and makes sexual intercourse for a woman intolerable.
@lazycrockett: I am detecting sarcasm from Ginmar, with reference to comments below re: "but male circumcision is horrible and awful too, why aren't we talking about that?"
@ostartero: The point is that this post is NOT about male circumcision. I'm not making a value judgment about male circumcision; I'm saying that bringing it up in a post about FGM takes away from the discussion and is ultimately disrespectful to the editor who posted this, and those who ARE posting on topic.
I hate to be a downer, but it's actually illegal in a lot of countries where it's still widely practiced. More often than not it's a move by the national government to win favor in the eyes of the national community but isn't enforced, so it's not a functional law at the local level.
Most of my experience is related to Tanzania and Kenya, so I can't speak as clearly about other countries, but it's been illegal both of those places for a while but is still extremely common among the Maasai, for example, though there are some really interesting programs trying to address it and get villages to shift away from the physical part of the initiation ritual.
@BlueJeans: That was my worry as well, that it won't be enforced. It just seems like a tradition that's so deeply ingrained in some cultures... I don't know. But at least it's a step in the right direction, I suppose.
This is encouraging news. But isn't this difficult to enforce? I hope this will decrease the prevalence, but I'm concerned that every little village isn't going to put the law of the government over their village culture.
A professor at my college told me that I shouldn't feel as though I could make a judgment about FGM because I didn't understand the way that sex practices work there and what men and women find attractive during sex. Her words: "Here, sex is more...wet and juicy, while sex there is hot and dry."
@jayseegraffiti: That is awful. First of all, it is bullshit, secondly, FGM does not make any sexual practice 'attractive' and in many cases prevents women from being able to engage in sex at all. I think that all arguments stating that this is a cultural practice are missing something, this is a fundamentally male cultural practice that has been used to subjugate and permanently harm women.
@jayseegraffiti: I agree. This is why I'm opposed to infant male circumcision as well. I guess if you are Jewish, you have legitimate religious reasons to do so and so I try not to judge it in that case even though I still have concerns, but the number of Christians and non-religious people in the USA that do infant male circumcision is fairly common.
I have so many friends who have commented that their son needs to look just like daddy, so break out the scissors. As if that is a big enough reason to cut off a piece of his penis! But it is so acceptable that no one questions it or even thinks about it. Which makes me think its possible that there are places in the world that FGM isn't necessarily done with a lot of thought and instead is kind of the status quo.
So....I guess you could argue cultural reasons for FGM in some African countries and for circumcision in the USA, but both just seem like a violent act against a baby to me.
(I'd like to be clear though, that I think the effects of FGM are probably worse than the that of circumcision and there are clear issues of sexism at play for FGM in ways that aren't for circumcision. I'm not saying that they are the same issue, but there are some similarities and both leave me with a bad feeling.)
@banana_grabber: I think that there are a lot of superficial similarities, but I disagree that male circumcision is comparable to female genital mutilation. Female genital mutilation is a tool that is used to keep women from engaging in sex and engaging in sex with men who are not their husband. It is performed for the specific purpose of suppressing female sexuality. Male circumcision is not a hindrance to male sexuality and has proven health benefits (related to the spread of HIV) and as a religious practice it is widespread and does not have negative impact on many men. I agree that it is certainly can effect your son and that parents have an enormous amount of power in this decision, but ultimately it is a different decision than FGM.
@banana_grabber: Are probably worse than FGM? Really? So, are they amputating boys' dicks and balls these days? Because that's the only way you could talk about the one in the same breath as the other.
@jayseegraffiti: I understand people wanting to be sensitive to cultural differences, but some things are just wrong and can't be justified with cultural relativism. We can understand that people believe different things without advocating it.
Plus, I don't think it has much to do with actual sex...other than trying to make sure women don't want to have any, so they are less likely to "stray". That's the justification I've always read, and it's line with lots of practices in many cultures to control women's sexuality.
@Ginmar Rienne: I sincerely hope I mistyped that or started to write something different because that is NOT what I meant at all. FGM is a terrible practice and I don't think you can begin to make exact comparisons of it with anything and I have always believed that. Unfortunately, it's too late to edit. Eek.
I don't want this to turn into a debate about the two because I don't want to belittle FMG and I fear it could easily turn to that (as it is, and I apologize). I only mentioned that because I really have a difficult time completely judging another culture with my own culture's biases (and meant to use that as example of that in response to what that professor said because I am sure that there are those that argue that FGM is a positive thing and they sincerely believe that and how do you begin to respond to that in a way that both respects different cultures and also seeks justice for all?). And, that isn't to say that we shouldn't make any judgment at all about FGM, because we should do everything we can to make sure that these women are not abused in this way. FGM is truly horrific any way you look at it.
That's why I think it is really powerful that the Ugandan government is banning this act because they are realizing themselves that this a terrible practice. I am sure Western pressures helped this, but I hope it is something they take ownership of as well. But, at the same time, it is really easy for us to look over our own abuses of others and just point fingers at other cultures that we don't even understand. It just makes me feel uncertain how to even begin to respond to things such as these. There aren't any easy answers, but I hope we can at least listen to the positions that come out of other cultures so that we understand the complexity of those issues. At the same time, I hope we also have the courage to stand up against injustices irregardless of what culture they come from.
@banana_grabber: In point of fact, female adolescents, not babies, are circumcised. There are also a whole raft of dangerous, painful, and possibly lethal side effects depending on the type of FGM practiced, everything from infection to retained menses to excruciating sex to seriously, seriously dangerous complications in childbirth.
When women seek refugee status because they don't want this done to them, there's something seriously, seriously fucked up. And I don't think there's anything "probably worse," medically or culturally about it. It is.
@banana_grabber: Being another person who types , on occasion, too fast, I can appreciate that. However, I do think this is one of those situations where it's entirely possible to toss cultural concerns out the window because the damage done to women is so horrifying. You can't blame this on religion, or history, or anything but bigotry against women----this practice has existed in several regions prior to several religions. (Use of the general 'you' obviously.)
"Hot and dry sex" by the way refers to certain practices where women sometimes sit in tubs of caustic agents like diluted bleach, which strips the vagina of lubrication and leaves it vulnerable to tearing, as well as, reportedly, feeling a certain way to the man who demands that the women do this. It makes the vagina prone to severe tearing, which in turns makes the spread of various diseases easier.
@ladeedah: Not to mention how completely ridiculous it must be when, after incredibly painful sex, one must give birth through one, very small, tiny hole. I'm haunted by stories of "they had to cut her open and stitch her back up again after the baby came."
It is bullshit. She was highly problematic in a lot of issues. I think she was very afraid of being categorized as one of those white feminists who wants to go save all of "those" people. Not a great excuse, but she worked around the world. Over-compensation, maybe?
I think anybody can look at clitoral severing and vaginal bleaching and make the conclusion that something's not right here.
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Non sequitur...and kinda not that funny. Photoshop fail.
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How? Is there a "punch in face" timer on this blanket? Does the excess fabric ball up and launch itself at my face while I'm watching TV?
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Oh look. Now there is.
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How about we admit that they're both bad?
I mean it should be up to the person whether or not they want their genitals mutilated or not, not society or their parents.
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Most of my experience is related to Tanzania and Kenya, so I can't speak as clearly about other countries, but it's been illegal both of those places for a while but is still extremely common among the Maasai, for example, though there are some really interesting programs trying to address it and get villages to shift away from the physical part of the initiation ritual.
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I dunno. Violence is violence.
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I have so many friends who have commented that their son needs to look just like daddy, so break out the scissors. As if that is a big enough reason to cut off a piece of his penis! But it is so acceptable that no one questions it or even thinks about it. Which makes me think its possible that there are places in the world that FGM isn't necessarily done with a lot of thought and instead is kind of the status quo.
So....I guess you could argue cultural reasons for FGM in some African countries and for circumcision in the USA, but both just seem like a violent act against a baby to me.
(I'd like to be clear though, that I think the effects of FGM are probably worse than the that of circumcision and there are clear issues of sexism at play for FGM in ways that aren't for circumcision. I'm not saying that they are the same issue, but there are some similarities and both leave me with a bad feeling.)
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Plus, I don't think it has much to do with actual sex...other than trying to make sure women don't want to have any, so they are less likely to "stray". That's the justification I've always read, and it's line with lots of practices in many cultures to control women's sexuality.
12/12/09
I don't want this to turn into a debate about the two because I don't want to belittle FMG and I fear it could easily turn to that (as it is, and I apologize). I only mentioned that because I really have a difficult time completely judging another culture with my own culture's biases (and meant to use that as example of that in response to what that professor said because I am sure that there are those that argue that FGM is a positive thing and they sincerely believe that and how do you begin to respond to that in a way that both respects different cultures and also seeks justice for all?). And, that isn't to say that we shouldn't make any judgment at all about FGM, because we should do everything we can to make sure that these women are not abused in this way. FGM is truly horrific any way you look at it.
That's why I think it is really powerful that the Ugandan government is banning this act because they are realizing themselves that this a terrible practice. I am sure Western pressures helped this, but I hope it is something they take ownership of as well. But, at the same time, it is really easy for us to look over our own abuses of others and just point fingers at other cultures that we don't even understand. It just makes me feel uncertain how to even begin to respond to things such as these. There aren't any easy answers, but I hope we can at least listen to the positions that come out of other cultures so that we understand the complexity of those issues. At the same time, I hope we also have the courage to stand up against injustices irregardless of what culture they come from.
12/12/09
When women seek refugee status because they don't want this done to them, there's something seriously, seriously fucked up. And I don't think there's anything "probably worse," medically or culturally about it. It is.
12/12/09
"Hot and dry sex" by the way refers to certain practices where women sometimes sit in tubs of caustic agents like diluted bleach, which strips the vagina of lubrication and leaves it vulnerable to tearing, as well as, reportedly, feeling a certain way to the man who demands that the women do this. It makes the vagina prone to severe tearing, which in turns makes the spread of various diseases easier.
12/13/09
It is bullshit. She was highly problematic in a lot of issues. I think she was very afraid of being categorized as one of those white feminists who wants to go save all of "those" people. Not a great excuse, but she worked around the world. Over-compensation, maybe?
I think anybody can look at clitoral severing and vaginal bleaching and make the conclusion that something's not right here.