Jezebel 
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New York, 9:34 AM
Fri Nov 27
2 posts in the last 24 hours
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06/15/09
I agree it is very much unfair to have to force your wife to get her tubes tied over yours, but at the same time comparing the medical procedures dictated by our differing anatomies (like the pam smear for example or vaginal exams) is unfair. It isn't out fault our anatomy is different.
It's also equally sexist to make claims "Man up" or "BE A MAN", because if I were to criticize something a woman wanted to do because it is HER OWN DECISION and told her to "behave like a woman" I would be called a bigot.
Sexism goes both ways ladies, I get enough of it from homophobic guys and I don't need any of it from you either. -_-
Even further, logic aside I just find the very idea of the procedure very uncomfortable. I don't want to do any sort of procedure that is unnecessary, no matter how quick and simple it is to perform. I may be saying this just because I'm young, but the idea of a vasectomy is just too much for me to even consider. Of course, I don't plan on forcing my partner to get her tubes tied.
Why can't I just simply stick to the condom (yes I know it doesn't work 100% of the time) and other safe practices to avoid pregnancy?
Just consider it for your partners perspective, ignore their gender for once. It is just as wrong to force your man to get this procedure done when he doesn't want to as it is for him to do the same to you.
06/15/09
-Lots of guys don't want to use condoms or other barrier methods but hormonal birth control has a long list of side effects. The guy has to be willing to compromise somehow- either condoms or the snip.
-I've known women who were told they could never get pregnant again without seriously risking their lives. In these cases, the doctor recommends either one of them get sterilized to avoid the tiny birth control failure rate. Female steralization is much more risky and I think a guy who won't agree to a snip in that situation is really selfish.
06/15/09
I agree, some of the comments here come off as insensitive and sexist, but what you're reading is exasperation. The shit that men aren't willing to put up with is embarrassing compared to the pain, trouble and expense they expect their female partners to put up with... if they even consider it at all.
06/16/09
Except that couples usually make the decision together to stop having children/never start having children, and two thirds of the time, it's only the woman who gets sterilized. Vasectomies are far cheaper, far less risky, far less invasive, and slightly more effective, and still more men opt to protect themselves from a small risk and insist their partners take a much larger one.
The reasons not to just use condoms forever is that they are only 85% effective, costly over time, and because of decreased sensation for the men.
I can't imagine that you would be called a bigot for telling anyone to "behave like a woman" if you did so, because it simply does not carry the same meaning in our culture. "Be a man" means to be brave, strong, tough, which is why it's been used in an ironic way to refer to cowardly men, by some women here.
06/16/09
Another thing I was completely unaware of.
"I can't imagine that you would be called a bigot for telling anyone to "behave like a woman" if you did so, because it simply does not carry the same meaning in our culture. "Be a man" means to be brave, strong, tough, which is why it's been used in an ironic way to refer to cowardly men, by some women here."
Okay, but what about Machismo which dictates that men shouldn't use condoms?
Appealing to these imaginary rules that dictate how a gender should behave is no different from how so many of you complain about Paternity and the system men have created for their convenience in society. It is just as bad as if I were to say all women should stay in the kitchen and attacked a woman's feminitity because she's indepedent, smart, and doesn't conform to my views of how a women ought to behave.
Attacking a man's masculinity does your argument no favors, it may work on those with weak egos but not all (like me). Instead it leaves only an impression of hypocrisy.
Men are no longer the blood-thirsty, battle-frenzy, dirty warriors of centuries past. Society has evolved and so have we. You can't ask for us to be sensible and reasonable while also at the same time remaining brutish thugs.
I think it is quite interesting to see women bring up the "be a man" argument for their convenience and of course dictate for themselves what a man ought to do, you are naturally going to make rules that work at your own convenience.
It is not only men that should be brave, tough, and strong.
06/16/09
And what about machismo dictating that men not use condoms? I'm not sure what you mean by this statement, but I do agree that it's a factor, one primarily affecting women, since as receptive partners we are 8 times more likely to be infected with an STD in any given encounter, and because we are the ones who risk pregnancy.
06/16/09
06/15/09
This is such a big issue in my family right now.
My man and I have 2 kids. I had hard pregnancies and miscarriages. We can't afford anymore kids. I tried an IUD but it didn't work well for my body (PAIN! for a year and so $$$).
So for a while now He's been planning to get a vasectomy. Its by far the most logical choice for us and as my guy is not some sexist jerk whose self-worth is tied up in his dick, it was never that big of a deal.
Well now, my usually VERY sensible husband has backed out.
Because he has read about Post Vasectomy Pain Syndrome which effects - wait for it - approx. 1/1000 patients.
1/1000!!!!
I've tried to reason with him.
I've also explained that my body has done a hell of a lot for our family, with negative lasting results. In fact, I'll be having surgery to correct a rather common problem caused by pregnancy. The list goes on and on of things I have dealt with. I run a greater risk for pain every single month and certainly with every pregnancy (including death as a risk) and the probability of those things are VASTLY GREATER than 1/1000! AND I AM NOT HAVING TUBAL LIGATION or any other procedure. My body has had to deal with far too much - that I won't even get into here.
And yet, he's still "thinking about it" - code for, blowing it off. Our conversations go in circles. I've asked him to see multiple urologists to talk about his concerns. He hasn't made appointments.
I'm offended, hurt, and furious. But, trying to hide the anger.
I don't want to threaten him by saying NO SEX UNTIL YOU GET THE SNIP. But, god, damn, that is what I am thinking. No, that is what I am planning.
Any advice at all? PLEASE!
06/15/09
06/15/09
It really sucks because we've been best friends since we were teens, we generally get along better and are more openly affectionate than the majority of our married friends, until recently we, for the most, part had an amazing sex life and have been able to talk about anything.
I did show him the Jez article and comments a while ago. He told me then that he's leaning towards the vasectomy more than he was yesterday. Still no planned consultation, but maybe we're getting closer.
Thanks again for all your reasonable advice and the web link.
06/15/09
I'm not convinced that this PVPS thing is even real. After almost 4,000 pageviews why hasn't anyone supported this idea with an anecdote, even from a friend of a friend? Of all the men I know and you know who've had a vasectomy, why are they all okay?
My dad's unwillingness to take risks with his body led to my mom having TWO tubal ligations, the second one after the first one failed. I refuse to go down that road.
06/15/09
06/15/09
But otherwise, why not just use condoms?
06/15/09
06/15/09
I don't think anyone who thinks they may possibly want kids in the future should even consider a vasectomy. It isn't always reversible and the frozen sperm method is super expensive.
06/15/09
But if the sperm is frozen and the female partner has no fertility problems, isn't it possible to just artificially inseminate without harvesting eggs? As in the good old turkey baster method? Obviously, you'd want professionals to do the thawing to ensure that the sperm weren't damaged, but the insemination would be a pretty low tech and not all that expensive process.
06/15/09
06/15/09
The whole thing is moot from a practical standpoint because I want to continue skipping periods with my hormonal b.c., but it makes me uneasy that he has this typical guy "don't mess with my junk" attitude. If I wasn't happy with my b.c. I have no idea what we'd do.
06/15/09
06/15/09
Just a few months ago the subject came up and he made the statement that vasectomies were no big deal. After all these years (15) I became furious with him and he could not understand why. He was being selfish - I was right. He said he felt bad after I had my tubes tied because "it was harder on me than he thought it would be". Yeah - I had complications that led to scarring and another surgery. So now he supports vasectomies. Lovely.
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06/16/09
06/15/09
Needless to say, they are divorced now. I really hope his new wife doesn't desperately want kids.
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06/15/09
I scheduled my appointment, told the doctor that I hate kids and the idea of kids and that he should call my mother if he wanted any proof of my lifelong aversion to kids. He chuckled, had me lie down on the table, and 25 minutes later I waddled out with 5 stitches and the oddest pain of my life.
I would do it again in a heartbeat (and urologists are pretty funny. I got 5 or 6 funny dick jokes out of the endeavor).
06/15/09
06/15/09
I love him.
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06/15/09
There is no way he would ever in a million years let his father out-do him.
But perhaps writing might be a good idea.
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06/15/09
He said: I am not going to get it because my Tai Chi instructor said it will mess up my chi.
Yep.
(Then I got my tubes tied. The end)
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Post Script: And then you got divorced?
06/15/09
06/15/09
I know in marriage you have to pick your battles, but if my husband did that, it might be very hard for me to let it go.
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06/15/09
Truth be told, I was not completely mad about it because it all was paid by insurance, it wasn't that high risk, I love and trust my OB/GYN of 14 years, and I had developed a TON of other medical issues which make me terrified of being pregnant again in the (extremely) remote chance his vasectomy failed.
I still hold a grudge about it. For example, I HATE Tai Chi and false Eastern medical "advice", and I've earned the right to roll my eyes whenever anything close to those subjects comes up. I was VERY disappointed because it was something that we had agreed on, but I went ahead with it, not because I felt pressured by him backing off, but because I was sure (and am) of MY decision of not having any more kids and take care of MY future health problems.
06/15/09
2. I think one of the reasons women have their tubes tied more is because doctors are already in there for a C-section. My mom did this - after 2 kids she knew she was not putting her body through that again. I mean, I agree with the post's point about men taking responsibility too, but I bet C-section add-ons explain a lot of tubal ligations.
06/15/09
But once you know those bad boys are severed for good, it's basically infallible.
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06/15/09
When I had my c-section the doc leaned over the sheet to say, "Hey, SomeAuthorGirl, do you want us to tie your tubes while we're in here?" To which I replied, "hrmahawahaaaa....?" Yeah, I was totally high on the anesthetics after being awake for 3 days trying to get a human being out of my womb.
It infuriates the shit out of me that this happens with frequency.
They should ask men the vasectomy question while they're high on something, just to even out the numbers. There'd be a lot more yes's.
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06/15/09
And ew on making your dad sign off. THAT seems unethical to me.
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Wish it were the same for pregnancy.
06/15/09