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Sorry, Idealists: Racism Doesn't End With Our First Black President
New York, 12:39 AM
Wed Nov 11
68 posts in the last 24 hours
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Sorry, Idealists: Racism Doesn't End With Our First Black President |
11/17/08
I cannot for the life of me understand any intelligent human being saying she "cannot wait" for people to turn on him because it might prove some bizarre and off-base argument correct. What the fuck? You'd have to be living a sad existence to take pleasure in such a notion, but thankfully, it's not going to come to pass.
11/17/08
And then I get to the airport to fly home and log on to find this. It makes me so sad.
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11/17/08
Every time I sign off for a few hours I inevitably miss a really awesome discussion and everything I'd want to say, has already been said.
Still, I'm glad that the subtle little knife of racism that has been nipping at minorities for a very long time is finally starting to see the light of day. I'm mostly glad that "White" people are seeing it. I use 'white' in parentheses because the term applies to all that benefit from the privilege of their color. I know that your color does not make you homogenous, but it makes your reach for the "American Dream" a tad-bit shorter than mine. I'm tired of being told that I am complaining, that I am too sensitive, that I'm just being paranoid...this shit is so real. Racism is so real. Salt is added to the wound when by voicing my chagrin; I'm told that I'm engaging in reverse racism. Still, I know that whatever animosity that I may hold in my heart for you will not change your life. My people cannot deny you a job or place your children in low-quality schools. We cannot create a legal system that unfairly targets and jails you or deny you the ability to realize your potential. We cannot defer your dreams.
Once when I was 8 years old, I was cutting across a field so that I could get to school. Two grown white men in a pickup truck chased me down, screaming racial epithets and trying to run me over. I ran back home to my mother in tears. That was the first time that I ever looked down at my skin and realized that this was reason enough for someone, somewhere to try to do me bodily or emotional harm. We've known for hundreds of years, what many white people are just starting to realize or what they've chosen to ignore, because in their hearts they truly believe that it "Can't be that bad". And perhaps they believe this because in their hearts they are not, in fact, that bad. But silence is collusion. If you're not railing against racism, you are supporting it. If you're not telling your racist-ass friends and family to shut the fuck up or risk losing your company, then you are a co-conspirator.
In my heart, I truly believe that there is more good than evil in the hearts of most people. Placing blame, name-calling and defensiveness does not change anything. We've been doing this for quite a while and just look at what we've become; closeted bigots, forcibly being outed by the election of this man. Racism never went away, it just shifted, became more stealth, more imperceptible. But it's still there. The election of this man has shown us that those still waters of racism run deeeeeeeep. And we all have some swimming to do.
11/17/08
And I am so grateful for your thoughtful, gracious post. Thank you for writing it.
11/16/08
Our responsibility, whether we be black, white, Latino, Asian, rich, poor, Southern, Northern, whatever, is to teach our children and the people we interact with on a daily basis, that any -ism should not and will not be tolerated.
We can no more pretend that these things do not exist than we can pretend that the sky is green. Classism, racism, sexism, and all those other hurtful, divisive -isms are a very real part of our world. But they don't have to be.
So start by not being passive for the sake of getting along when someone else makes a racist comment or joke in your presence. Start by teaching your children that the -isms are the cancer in a society, the shitty byproduct of ignorance and hatred from people of limited world view. Start by evaluating a person by their achievements rather than their skin color. Start by learning to respect that everyone has the right to be different. If we were all the same, this world would be a hell of a boring place. Start by evaluating yourself and seeing if aware or unaware, you are contributing to the problem.
And for god's sake, let's quit this bickering and finger pointing. It accomplishes nothing.
11/16/08
If there was a way to share cupcakes over the internet, I would.
11/16/08
What kind of knothead from OK goes to a KKK meeting? Why would she think leaving was an option? Hatred is their profession, and it's like joining the Mafia. No do-overs. Duhhhh. It freaks me out, that someone from OK would want to promote hatred that badly. I have a feeling ppl are taking sides like this nationwide right now. I'm a big ol' Obama lover from OK. I better go buy some fire extinguishers.
[ap.google.com]
"...In this week's shooting, St. Tammany Sheriff Jack Strain said the woman was lured over the Internet to participate in the KKK ritual and then was to return to Oklahoma to recruit members. Strain said the group's leader, Raymond "Chuck" Foster, 44, shot and killed her after a fight broke out when she asked to be taken back to the town of Slidell..."
11/16/08
11/16/08
Have you seen any coverage, in OK, of this woman that got killed in Louisiana, here in OK? Apparently she was from Tulsa. I live near OKC so don't take the local, totally biased newspaper. Just wondered if she got any ink.
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11/16/08
"Prejudice", in this context, is the assumption that group (ethnicity, or gender, or class, or sexual orientation, or whatever) characteristics trump personal ones, making it "okay" to speak about all Asians or men or Lesbians as if you knew every single one. It has nothing to do with whether your assumption is positive or negative; the point is that you're making the assumption. Many of us are familiar with this version coming from our grandparents. While by no means EASY to combat, especially if it's coming from family, your chances of being able to make a personal contribution toward stopping it are much higher than with institutionalized racism, because it usually reveals itself in a personal context. Take a deep breath (giving yourself time to plan what to say and suppress the URGE TO SMASH) and call out the speaker AT THE TIME THEY MAKE THE COMMENT. When I've managed to summon up the courage to do this, I've found it's sort of like housebreaking a puppy. Being mean won't help -- it will only make them defensive and perhaps counter-aggressive -- and if you let time pass, they will have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
What the people on this site are calling "bigotry", "hate speech" or "hate crime" is the name-calling/ threatening/violence version. Obviously if you see someone hurting someone else, you should try to stop it, but if you just hear about it, calling in the authorities is a good bet (whether that means a school principal or the cops). If the people doing this are adults, they are disconnected enough from reality to think that hurting or threatening another person is acceptable, and that means that you don't want to tackle them yourself unless you have no other choice.
11/16/08
11/17/08
I do hear racist things from people and I do call them out on it but I know that's not going to change their mind, just make it so they don't say things around me.
11/16/08
Or maybe they know someone like Greg Griffin, 46, who believes that Obama's victory has "ruined" the country. "I believe our nation is ruined and has been for several decades and the election of Obama is merely the culmination of the change. If you had real change it would involve all the members of (Obama's) church being deported."
Deported to where, dumbfuck? They're American. And for the last time, he's American.
Carry on.
11/16/08
On anther tangential note, it's people like this who make me completely unable to understand why people say Sarah Palin seems likeable, even if they disagree with ehr. Ignorance isn't charming, it has consequences. So does fearmongering. This woman is still going around talking about Obama's ties to terrorists, even now that she must know how sharply threats against him spiked once she hit the campaign trail. She vile.
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Oak Hill General Store
Route 25
Standish, ME 04084
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11/16/08
If only that were an effective way to ensure 8 years of President Obama's safety.
11/16/08
The only thing I take solace in is that the secret service is kick ass and that they KNOW how much of a target this man is. Here's to hoping that is enough to keep the crazies at bay.
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11/16/08
@ucelluccia: And it is a rainbow one, right? If I was more of a business person - and not afraid to exploit Obama - I should start knitting some up right now.
11/16/08
The replies I've gotten in the past are often little more than "bitch, please".
11/16/08
So what is it that y'all plan to do now to fight the racism of people who look like you, White liberals?
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Look in the mirror honey. You've got a bad case of believing some prejudices are gospel.
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[jezebel.com]
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Liberals of all colors and stripes need to be more honest about the racism (and other -isms, such as classism, which I think sometimes plays a bigger role than straight-up racism), and if we want to see change, we need to start acting to create it.
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Regardless, that was not my point. To lump all non-Black people together and say that the views of some are the views of all is just as ridiculous and racist as to do the same to all Black people. Racism works both ways.
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Look, I understand that you are pissed off, but divisive talk is hardly the best way to go about fixing this.
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You are defining racism just by bigotry alone. That only something negative can be seen a racism. And that is dangerous.
11/16/08
I also assume, however, that what ucelluccia is trying to say is about prejudice, and of course the phenomenon of racism is rooted in prejudice, so it gets elided a little bit.
I'm not sure you'd disagree with this, but frankly it's been distressing to me that every time we have a conversation about these things, even in a community more open to discussions of white racism like Jez, it seems to degenerate because a few commenters want to come in here and basically shame people who are trying, trying hard, in fact, to dig themselves out of the moral hole occasioned by their white privilege. I mean, shouldn't that be something? Nobody needs a cookie or anything, but neither do they need to be smacked over the head by people trying to equate them to cross-burners.
(Not that you, Jessi Ramsey were doing this; just a thought.)
11/16/08
so sorry for that first sentence.
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11/16/08
But "non-racist" Whites who do not have to encounter it daily. . .
Oh wow. I really do take exception to those quote marks, for starters.
11/16/08
This may come as a surprise to you, but I am not responsible for the thoughts/actions of all white people just because I am white. Just as you are not responsible for the thoughts/actions of everyone who is black.
Sweeping generalizations, btw, are the hallmark of intolerance and ignorance. You might want to back off them.
11/16/08
racism |ˈrāˌsizəm|
noun
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
• prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on such a belief : a program to combat racism.
Given that, I think racism can cut both ways.
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I love discussions about race on Jezebel. I assume that demographics of the site just about match the United States( 70% white, 14% black, 4% Asian, etc) so I do know that threads such as these will be leaning towards how one sees race relations through a lens of white privileged.
I do really enjoy that the women here try very hard to understand the minority experience but at the same token I fully understand why minority women here get annoyed at some of the responses to posts such as these. To be surprised at the racist actions of others when to us it's a very "No duh. This is everyday life."
I do think we minority women need to be very grateful that we have white people out their who not only know that they have privilege but try to work to shift it. Because you cannot have an honest discussion about race is the dominate race does not first accept that they are privileged. We have women who do that here, let's not jump on them. By reacting with sneers to those who trying to bridge gaps does nothing to further discourse.
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I am here talking about this not because I think racism is a myth, but because it's offensive to be, as BeckySharper pointed out, painted with the same brush as all those who espouse such opinions. The big lesson: no matter what "group" we belong to, it's unfair to assume that the opinions and beliefs are the same as any one member.
11/16/08
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11/16/08
"racism+power is worse than racism without power. Racism without power accomplishes nothing. . ."
Please, that is baloney. Tell it to my white friend who got beaten up by a group of black teens in Hackney, because they didn't like white people living in their neighborhood. I think he found their 'racism without power' pretty powerful stuff that accomplished quite a lot - eye surgery, where they punched his glasses into his face, for one thing.
And yes, of course I know that for every case of black-on-white violence, there are hundreds of white-on-black attacks. I am simply using this one example to illustrate my point that racism against white people does happen, however rarely.
11/16/08
11/16/08
And I can't respond to that. Because those people will never realize the power they hold in the world so it would be a waste of my breathe and my time to try hold a discussion with those who cannot even view their own race critically.
So I will say it again, I very grateful for forums such as these with white people who recognize their privilege and willing to work to do something about it.
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Obama is the President elect right now because he managed to get so many so-called 'minorities' to band together to make a majority. Your line of argument is not helping, it's hurting - you are just prodding all the old fault lines. Can't you just stop attacking people and get with the programme?
11/16/08
This is very true, bigotry and prejudice are on every rung of the race, gender, class, sexual orientation, age, and religion ladders.
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11/16/08
It's all good. :)
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Seriously, are you just being so combative for shits and giggles? Or are you this negative all the time about everything?
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But let me get this straight, you are decrying racism - the lumping together of people by their race - while blithely lumping white men and women together because of their. . . race?
11/16/08
Oh, wait.
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racism |ˈrāˌsizəm|
noun
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race.
ie, that you can 'lump' a bunch of people together because they have the same color skin? Nah, I didn't forget it.
Now, let's remind ourselves of what you just said: "I tend to lump white women in with white men."
Now, who's beginning to sound like a racist? As someone said earlier, 'Lump not, lest you be lumped'.
11/16/08
"All white people have race privilege. This is a fact."
You're right. But once a white person acknowledges that state, what next? I believe that the "what next" needs to involve taking as little advantage of that privilege as possible, and working to even things out as much as possible.
11/16/08
I was just wrote my previous comment to will this dissertation ever end because they were trying to shout examples in which white people are being suppressed. And while a white person in a predominately black neighbor is a minority in that sense, they do not experience racism because they are still a member of the dominate race. Racism needs power, without the power it is only prejudice.
Racial minorities cannot be racist to white people. They can hold bigoted ideas just as anyone else but when it comes from the minority to the majority it is PREJUDICE not racism.
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The dictionary definition is all encompassing. But if you are talking about discrimination towards whites, it isn't racist.
For every racial group to be racist would assume that all racial minorities were considered socially equal in society to begin with.
It is naive to assume that the place where prejudice against racial minorities comes from is the same place as any minorities' prejudice against whites. The latter comes from a hate of the oppressor. The former comes from the oppressor trying to keep their majority status.
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What exactly are you trying to get out of saying that black people can be racist too?
11/16/08
You don't agree with this?
11/16/08
"What exactly are you trying to get out of saying that black people can be racist too?"
Well, I'm trying to point out the hypocrisy inherent in complaining about racism, while at the same time calling ALL white people racists, which was the comment made by Sister Toldja which kicked this whole thing off.
And to answer your question, what you supplied is not a definition of racism, it is an explanation of the motivation for it, which I can agree with in part. I actually think it goes way deeper than the 'conscious' reasoning you suggest, down to a genetic level in that we're all programmed to distrust anyone who is an outsider to our community/village/tribe as a threat to the community - that's where the fear derives from, and hence the aggression and violence. Which is why I believe ALL races, indeed ALL people, are capable of racism.
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@ronniedobbs: I think the reason this thread is so controversial has a lot to do with the phrasing. I'm not sure if the quotes were used for emphasis rather than appears to be but isn't, but non-racist, liberalism, and tolerance are all in quotes. If you read the quotes as you think you are but you aren't, it could be read as accusatory- you are racist, conservative and intolerant, even though you think you aren't.
11/16/08
Sister Toldja saying that all white people are racist, is her own prejudice. And I do not agree with her statement.
All races are capable of racism. Yes, this is true.
But the minority cannot be racist against the majority. Again, to say that the minority can be racist against white people is to say that the two have the same privilege to begin with.
As feminist scholar Jo Freeman puts it: "institutional discrimination is built into the normal working relationships of institutions, its perpetuation requires only that people continue 'business as usual.' Its eradication requires much more than good will; it requires active review of the assumptions and practices by which the institution operates, and revision of those found to have discriminatory results.
The patterns of institutional racism clearly run in the direction of White privilege and Black disadvantage. Whites enjoy better and higher paying jobs, better educational outcomes, lower rates of unemployment, longer lives, fewer diseases and illnesses, lower rates of infant mortality, lower rates of poverty, lower rates of incarceration, greater home ownership, better homes, and so forth.
All of these are empirically rooted in patterns of institutional discrimination. Failure to act to overthrow these patterns is a manifestation of racism. This is why affirmative action is not an example of racist discrimination; the intention of the policy is to restrict White (male) privilege, privilege given by the patterns of discrimination in US institutions."
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I agree with clevernamehere that racism=prejudice+power is one that is taught in academia within Ethnic Studies. Just as sexism is prejudice+power. You aren't going to find it in the dictionary as it is really a social definition.
I do really love conversations about race but I dislike that some commenters were lumping all white people together and then continuing to be upset with the way race relations are. Just like it's not okay for white people to group all minorities together, it is not okay for minorities to use their disadvantage to try and make white people feel bad for the actions of other white people.
11/16/08
Power comes in many forms and many degrees. You seem to suggest here that those who are considered to be part of a minority group hold no power whatsoever and, thus, their actions, though they may be oppressive and full of prejudice, cannot be considered racist even if they are directed toward someone who would be considered a member of a majority group.
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The minority has prejudice against the oppressor. The oppressor fears that the minority will somehow gain power so the oppressor strives to keep the minority down. The Oppressor turns the minority against itself. Light skin vs. dark skin, field slaves vs. mansion slaves, Pencil tests for hair.
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Um, no. What you are describing is Classism. Don't believe me? Look at the Indian Caste system.
11/16/08
When we misuse our personal power, which has a different definition than institutional power under an institutional race theory, we can oppress anyone, regardless of any status held by the oppressor or the oppressed.
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Also, I believe the Indian caste was in place before European whites came over. I don't think that was something pushed on them by the white influence. When white slave owners in America were trying to find a way to keep black slaves from coming together and revolting they made sure to turn the slaves against each other. Things like light skin black vs. dark skin black. Treat the house slaves better than the field slaves. Let the "good haired" slaves have more privileges than the "nappy haired" slaves. African names are undesirable. Rape the mother of a male slave's children to keep that male slave in check.
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I'm not trying to poke at you; I'm curious about your view of the balance of power.
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If you can't believe that, it's your problem, not mine.
That goes for, well, everyone who doesn't believe it.
11/17/08
If I am oppressed or prejudiced in some way on the sole basis of my race, is that not racism?
I'll add a potential caveat here as well for you.
What if, as some seem to suggest, there is a point in our not-so-distant future where there is no true "dominant" or "majority" or "minority" race anymore?
Hypothetically speaking, if that day comes and I am then oppressed or prejudiced against based solely on my race - is that not still racism or is that the point in time where racism no longer exists?
11/17/08