I really don't get it either. Sure, we can't be positive that MJ molested any children, and we don't know why he chose to settle with Jordan Chandler, or if the two boys at the second trial were completely full of shit. But when Chandler stopped cooperating with the police, they really had very little they could go to trial on. I mean, any time you have a child that is a victim, things can get really dicey. I just sat through an FBI talk on child predators, and they prefer kiddie porn cases because then they don't have to rely on the testimony of the victim to convict.

But my main gripe with all the responses to the MJ was a molester crowd is- I'm not arguing he should have been thrown in jail, or even publicly ridiculed and humiliated to the extent he was, without better evidence. THAT is what "innocent until proven guilty" means, that we won't take away someone's life and liberty without very nearly damning evidence. Not that we can't question what his legacy should be, in light of some very serious allegations.

One of my law professors sat in and commented to the 24 hours stations on most of the second trial, and was pretty familiar with the first. His opinion is that the second two victims seemed kind of full of shit, but that Jordan Chandler had seemed pretty credible. I really don't think I know enough to form an opinion on whether Jackson was guilty or not, but I can certainly understand why his legacy might be tainted to some because of these allegations.

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1. Michael gets a pass because he was innocent. Because everyone except those with something to gain insisted he was innocent. Because I've seen convenience store robberies with better evidence than his trial.

But Michael also gets sympathy because he was persecuted for being weird. There are a LOT of weird people out there, but the people who SHOULD get to be weird (and I really, truly, in the deepest of my hearts believe that he was weird enough to relate to children in a deep, emotional and completely asexual way) are people whose lives have actually been weird.

None of us has any clue what it would feel like to spend our ENTIRE lives in the spotlight. Michael Jackson was a phenomenon from the time his 11 year old voice sang "I Want You Back" straight through to the day he died. And not just a celebrity, a SUPERSTAR. I saw footage of him shopping in a grocery store, one they had to shut down and populate with eople he knew posing as customers and checkout guys, just so it would be safe eough for him to go shopping. As some of his friends sprayed whipped cream on his hat, he groaned and said "Come on, guys, it's my frist shopping trip in 30 years." 30 years. When was the last time you got groceries?

We kept him in this incredible spotlight, but when that made him eccentric we turned it against him and persecuted him for every oddity. How is that right?

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Whether or not you think Jackson is guilty, the distinction between individuals and a group is really, really important to keep in mind.

I can agree that children are are vulnerable and sometimes victimized and agree that we have an obligation to look out for them, while still waiting to draw conclusions about any one specific case and one specific accused individual.

In clevernamehere's original post here, it seems like she's saying all 4% of accused priests were guilty and that's sort of what her argument extending to MJ is predicated on. I think the argument breaks down when you consider that most people, Catholics included, probably understand that some people, priests included, are child molesters. But the fact that some people are doesn't mean that any one accused person is, even if other members of a group s/he is in was found guilty.

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We all have experiences in our lives that make us better people and we also all have shit happen to us that make us fucked up in other aspects of our lives too - sometimes forever.

He was an odd duck. But his demons are no longer tormenting him anymore. Those of us that are still here need to find a way to deal with our own so that they do not become the death of us.

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Of course you could be all of these things at once, but since I don't know you, and can only go off of impresssions and speculation, I'll do what you can't seem to do- refrain from the character judgments and just say that something about you and your behavior is a little off.

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Although I think R. Kelly's guilty as hell, that was hilarious.

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We can't go around convicting people of acts they were acquitted of just because we "know he did it!" when in fact we don't.

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Rich people do tend to pay off accusers because they can. No one was ever satisfied that he'd done anything. I don't know - we never will. But we have no proof. I think we'd have had a lot more allegations if he were.

And Tracie? Touching.

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Now if you wanna talk about somebody who SHOULD BE in jail, focus on the ones that we have evidence against - like R. Kelly. That fool might have been acquitted, but there's a fucking tape and witnesses that prove otherwise.

Get back to me when you find a tape with MJ in it. Thanks and you may exit, stage left.

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Really? So, everyone who has been molested is lying unless they have tape to prove it? Is this the way we're going to think of all sexual assault cases now? Why are you so quick to assume MJ DIDN'T do anything untoward with those children?

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I have had to stand by and watch somebody being accused and investigated for rape when they did NOT do it. How did I know they didn't? They were with me on the other side of town throwing pennies and rocks in a fountain at the time. People DO lie and thus, the burden of proof.

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And the original post was about the use of the word "touching."

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I'm sorry that that happened to you.

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"The only thing I can think of in this maudlin media outporing of Jacksonmania, is THE MAN WAS A CHILD MOLESTER. If he hadn't been famous, he would currently be in prison where he belonged, getting abused by his fellow prisoners."

for me caps=screaming.

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But I'm not being antagonistic for antagonism's sake. I am as sick over what I see as the injustice done to those children as the rest of the country seems to be over Jackson's death. And, yes, it seems very likely that MJ was abused by his father. If that is true, Joe Jackson should also be prosecuted. However that doesn't excuse Michael, a grown man, from his own untoward behavior.

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And since you are parsing my language so carefully, do note that I said "he would currently be in prison where he belonged," but did not say "getting abused by his fellow prisoners as he deserved."

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It seems to be his status of celebrity that gets everyone tripped up. He got off because he was rich and famous. Did you ever stop to consider that it was perhaps for the same reasons he may have been falsely accused? I mean, who better to accuse of such things than a man who considers himself a child, has oodles of money to take and who's surrounded by a legal team, family and media who couldn't give a rats ass about his welfare? In my opinion, all that happened was a bunch of greedy people saw an opportunity, and jumped on it.

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There are as many dead arseholes as there are living ones. Death should offer no protection.

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