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LilyBonesBurana
12/06/09

In reply to Jersey Shore: "Like a Horror Movie"
I'll cast my vote: Hell yes, I've met MANY guys whom would identify as Guidos--that is, they aren't offended by the term, even if it's not what they call themselves as a qualifier upon introduction.

I grew up outside Philly and went to high school in NJ--both heavily populated with Italian-Americans and Irish-Americans. My husband is a Guido from Queens--wore the Christ head pendant on the gold rope chain, had the big poufy hair, the "dems, dese and dose" accent, all of it. He's as Italian-American as the day is long.

I love the whole package. I imprinted on it early.

Sure this show is cheesy and traffics in certain stereotypes--hello, reality TV. Does "The Real Housewives of Orange County" do the same? Yes. So does Bridezillas, Tool Academy, and Rock of Love.

It's demography raised *almost* to the level of mimicry. But not crossing the line, I don't feel. Italian-Americans are pretty darn assimilated, and I don't think this show will kick off a round of "Guido Bashing" or something similarly perilous.

I really don't see the reason for the outrage. Italians were a maligned minority in America during the early waves of their immigration--as were the Irish, around the same time. They have, however, since become quite mainstream. Most people today would be shocked to hear that it was even hard for Italians to get jobs back then, that's how assimilated they are.

So I don't think 12 or so over-groomed knuckleheads are going to reverse that progress in any way. Are the poster boys and girls for the Italian-Americans? No. But that's not their obligation.
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Tart of Darkness
12/06/09

In reply to Sexual Assault On Campus: Schools Don't Always Offer Much Assistance
Schools that rightfully treat sexual assault as the CRIME it is, rather than some awkward social misunderstanding, end up having to report sexual assaults in the crimes on campus statistics. Knowledge of how prevalent sexual assault is on campus might scare Mommy and Daddy and keep them from sending their kids to the schools that report high numbers (or any numbers) of sexual assaults on campus.

In addition the law enforcement response to sexual assaults puts victims in an uncomfortable spotlight in which they feel blamed in a way that victims of robbery, burglary, auto theft do not.

Unfortunately we can't stop what we don't acknowledge. I don't see social perception of rape changing any time soon.

And so I take the very, very unpopular stance that potential victims of sexual assault (particularly young women -- statistically so) MUST live with and acknowledge the reality that they are likely to be victimized in some way and they MUST learn how to avoid being victimized. You must learn to live in the REAL while fighting for the IDEAL.

Unfortunately we want to believe that predators don't exist so we are not prey. But the smart doe acknowledges that the wolves are out there.

I highly recommend Gavin deBecker's books The Gift of Fear and Protecting the Gift as required reading for everyone. You have intuition for a reason, learn not to overrule it in an attempt to be the polite young person that your parents insisted you be. That polite young person is more helpless than the doe in the meadow.

Fight for change in society. Fight for change in the perception of rape and other sexual assault crimes. But most of all learn to fight for your own safety until that change comes.

And change will come. Nowadays the street hassle I endured as a young teen girl is considered a danger and the police will look for guys driving around contacting young kids walking to school. Back then they couldn't care less. But times have changed.

Stay safe out there my young Athenas and Dianas and Aphrodites.

And young men need to know these things too.
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5ft of fury
12/06/09

@Tart of Darkness: Nothing is going to change if we keep putting the responsibility of rape prevention on the potential victims, instead of the perpetrators. Being safe and realizing what fear is and learning to accept it and use it to guide you out of unsafe situations should be taught to everyone-regardless of gender. You have good points but I hate that even potentially helpful books like The Gift of Fear STILL put the responsibility on the victim-and once you go down that road victim blaming becomes very easy.
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Tart of Darkness
12/06/09

@5ft of fury: I told you my stance was unpopular. I would rather my daughter or son be safe than "right".
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5ft of fury
12/06/09

@Tart of Darkness: You do realize though that if we actually worked to end rape by making men accountable, we wouldn't have to put the emphasis of being "safe" on the victim, right? Your stance isn't new,edgy, or unpopular-it's a variation on the very old "well you should have done x,y, and z" prevention tactics that just. don't. work.
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Edited by 5ft of fury at 12/06/09 10:09 PM 5ft of fury was starred 5ft of fury was unstarred

Tart of Darkness
07:11 AM

@5ft of fury: Educating men hasn't worked very well either. Even putting them in jail hasn't worked. In fact it often makes the men who are jailed for sexual assault even angrier than before because they have antisocial twisted minds that make them feel like they are actually the victims of the assaults they perpetrate. The man who killed four cops in Washington state was jailed for rape among other things and was out on bond for child rape. Clearly this is a man not big on taking responsibility for his actions. Numbers vary but some experts put the number of people in the population who are sociopathic to some degree at as high as 25%. When you try to teach sociopaths to have empathy for other people or compassion for others, then simply don't get it. For them, a woman or man that they desire sexual is an impersonal object that they use without remorse or regret. Educating them is a waste of breath.

If you had read my entire post you would see that I advocate to change the system and cite one example in which that has helped to change society's attitudes and law enforcement's actions and reactions to common street hassle. That a 12 year old or 14 year old can call the police and tell them she was followed home from school and have law enforcement turn out en mass to try to find the predator that hassled her and having the schools warn the kids to be on the lookout and warn parents too is an enormous change just in my lifetime.

Keep working to change the system and keep working to keep yourself self are my two messages.

Your response to them is neither new, edgy or unpopular it is merely a kneejerk reaction that I knew at least one person would have when I wrote what I wrote.

WORK toward the IDEAL and LIVE in REALITY. By taking responsibility for your safety rather than relying on the kindness of strangers hopefully you will not be any kind of victim.

You lock the door of your home, don't you? Why would not take simple precautions to stay as safe as possible otherwise as well?

I also advocate that friends look out for one another. If you and your friends go out together then take care of one another. Don't leave your one very drunk girlfriend behind to find her way home alone. Sure she should be safe. But no one will blame you more than yourself if she comes home after having been assaulted or worse yet, doesn't come home at all.

And, if a woman or man is sexually assaulted the last thing in the world I would think of doing is blaming them. I would think they did the best they could to be safe and someone else the did best he (or she) did to harm them and the criminal is to blame for the crime.

But have it your way. What do I know other than studying psychology and biogenetics and sociopathic behavior for some years and worked with victims of trauma and met a few criminals that were incarcerated and in the process of being "re-educated". One of my college professors worked with one of her incarcerated "clients" for four years to get him to feel a little bit sorry for the family of the complete stranger he killed in a gang shooting. He still didn't feel sorry for his victim, though, because they guy shouldn't have been in his gang's territory. Then her program was cut. You know who blames the victims the most? The criminals who victimize them.

I hope you stay safe and this is only a philosophical/political/sociological discussion for you.
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Edited by Tart of Darkness at 12/07/09 7:27 AM Tart of Darkness was starred Tart of Darkness was unstarred

Sunshineyness
12/06/09

In reply to Is Taylor Swift Being Set Up For A Fall?
I'm not in Taylor Swift's demo in the least. I'm 26 now (and had to YouTube her because I had no idea who she was) and when I was 19 I was too busy wearing short skirts, Doc's and swearing my allegiance to all that is rock and roll. So, yeah, it's hard for me to understand why a 19 year old is writing these kind of songs. Songs that I, as a 13 year old, probably would have gotton more out of than at 19.

But, honestly, I think this is a lot of hubbub over not that much. I watched and listened to that Abigail song that was supposed to be slut shaming and... didn't think it was that at all. I thought it was about going to far with a boy only to have him ditch you later. And, yeah, that happens. It's telling girls that boys lie and that if they tell you they love you they might not always mean it as much as you do.

Also, I thought the one about loving the boy next door was perfectly legitimizing to the expieriance of young teen girls who fantasize about an out of reach guy and thinking that "well, if he just KNEW me he'd totally dump that hot girl he's with..."

I think at the end of the day the only weird thing is that I feel like the experiences she sings about are more that of 13 year olds and not 19 year olds. And I'm surprised she still has that in her.
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Edited by Sunshineyness at 12/06/09 1:36 PM Sunshineyness was starred Sunshineyness was unstarred

Ginmar Rienne
12/06/09

In reply to Black Barbies: A Question Of Representation
I guess if you tell white people or men to please not be an asshole and make it all about them it's the same thing as censorship. Good to know. Also, another thing I've learned is that if you post something on the internet, people think they can say whatever they want and do whatever they want. Does anybody else see a problem with that?
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Penny_Esq
12/06/09

In reply to Is Taylor Swift Being Set Up For A Fall?
I am 28, and firmly on Team Taylor. The points I'd make in her defense have already been made down thread by far more articulate commenters than I, so I will simply say that, regardless of the EXTENT to which she has sexytimes, I do hope she is getting at least some frequent hugging action from young Mr. Lautner.

In all seriousness, though, a couple folks have thrown out Dolly as an example of someone who's some kind of feminist icon, and I love me some Dolly, but please, have you ever listened to the lyrics of "Jolene"? And I see some mentions of Alanis, too, but even she released "Head Over Feet" as a single (rather than, say, "Not the Doctor" or "Right Through You"). I don't know, I guess I am sort of wading into the fray here, but I see "Fifteen" and "Fuck and Run" as two sides of the same coin, that coin being, "Wish I hadn't dated/smooched/boned/fallen in love with that dude, since he turned out to be an asshole and now I feel bad about it." In closing,

LEAVE TAYLOR ALONE!!!1!1!!11!
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LoSpaz
12/06/09

@Penny_Esq: Love the Liz Phair comparison! I hope Taylor doesn't hire the Matrix to change her image, though.
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BeckyIva
12/06/09

@Penny_Esq: I just have to defend Dolly here - "Jolene" is a very accurate and moving portrayal of a desperate woman. Feminist artists aren't required to produce "feminist approved" art, and I have heard many stories of women who heard "Jolene," recognized themselves in the lyrics, and began to gather the resolve to leave their husbands. Also, look up the lyrics to "Just Because I'm A Woman" sometime.
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Penny_Esq
12/06/09

@BeckyIva: Okay, so I've tried to respond appropriately and succinctly a couple times but haven't made it happen... May I say, I'm in agreement with you here. I am firmly on Team Taylor, as I said, and when I invoked Dolly and Alanis and Liz Phair, it was in response to the criticism below that someone who writes lyrics that invoke or defer to the patriarchal narrative is necessarily A Bad Feminist whose cultural influence Undermines Womanity. I disagree, and I used Dolly, Alanis, and Liz, as examples of the fallacy of that logic. I see, rereading my comment, that I come across as being negative about Dolly, but my point was really that most, if not all, female artists perform songs with lyrics that sublimate patriarchal messages, then translate and redistribute them to receptive listeners as stories of either typical dudes' advantage-taking of women, or typical fairy-tale (aspirational) dudes' adoration of women. Then we all relate, and gather together under those standards/banners. The idea that there are "legitimate" female artists, (e.g., Alanis and Dolly) whose bodies of work fall somewhere outside this sphere of feminist criticism, is a fallacy, and my aim was to highlight that.

In short, my point was, don't be all "Taylor Swift's music undermines feminism" and then invoke Alanis or Dolly as women whose music and lyrics, on their faces, does not. And in that vein, commenters below have lamented "Love Story" and have either been unaware of, or have brushed off the fact that, "White Horse" is Part II of that narrative. It takes context to make "Jolene" into a woman-positive narrative; likewise, "Head Over Feet" is "forgivable" in light of "You Oughta Know."

Jesus, I could write a whole nother ten pages on this (and I did, in fact, write a paper in college, 2002, on this topic vis a vis Britney); long story short, sometimes we invoke one woman's life and career as a way to undermine and criticize another's (Dolly v. Taylor), when in reality they are both tremendously powerful, successful women, and the difference between them TODAY is that Taylor is 19 and Dolly is 63 and gets the depth of context afforded to people with 40-year, rather than 4-year, careers.

I hope this is not completely nonsensical. It was clearly not "in short." Sorry. It's a topic that gets my blood flowing and synapses firing. Nothing but love for Dolly.
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whynotshesaid
07:58 AM

@Penny_Esq: I just hearted you for this totally awesome comment. I love feminist pop culture analysis!
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BetteD
12/05/09

In reply to Jersey Shore: "Like a Horror Movie"
This show is a hot mess, and obviously rife with stereotypes and exploitation, the two genre's in which MTV now specializes.

But two other elements are at play here--one is scripting, which is rampant in MTV and VH1 "reality" shows, and which I noticed obvious examples of many times during the first two episodes, and the other is the fact that people like this (although not necessarily this exagerrated) DO exist.

I know this because I grew up in a primarily Italian-American East Coast community, and at least a third of the people I went to High School with self-identified as Guidos/Guidettes/Stellas.

Maybe it's the bias of having gone to a school where fitting in meant being either WASP-y or Guido, but I don't have that much sympathy for these kids. They are looking for fame and are willing to exagerrate their most foolish and sometimes detestable personality traits in order to obtain it.

Additionally, most of them have horrible attitudes towards members of both the opposite and their own sex, treat each other callously, and bathe in self-satisfaction.

I have to admit, I have no shame in laughing at them. I probably should, since I realize on a intellectual level that MTV should be ashamed for promoting this type of attitude in one respect while simulataneously holding it up for ridicule.

I do hate that these are the images that we choose to spotlight without any accompanying social context. But then I remember that it's fucking MTV.
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The HZA.
12/05/09

In reply to Is Taylor Swift Being Set Up For A Fall?
I love and adore Taylor and I am weirdly protective of her. Also, she's growing up. I am convinced she has a Jagged Little Pill album in her. We just have to wait. I don't see what being mean towards her accomplishes. She's nice! And doesn't dress skanky!
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AnalogTelevision
12/05/09

@The HZA.: She always wears the best dresses! (I don't really have anything else to add to this, I just really like her sparkly dresses.)
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euterpe35
12/06/09

@AnalogTelevision: in the words of TS herself "I like glitter and sparkly dresses... but I'm not going to talk about that in my monologue!" :-)

She's a cutie. And she's doing just fine.
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Cam/ron
12/05/09

In reply to Is Taylor Swift Being Set Up For A Fall?
What is it about niceness that offends so many people? Is it envy? Misanthrophy? Paranoia? (I'm lookin' at you, Hess) I have no issue with Swift delivering nice love songs that make numerous listeners feel good. As a music critic, I'm often told that so much supposedly "honest" music is about rage, murderous hatred, depression or explicit lust - and yet, too many artists who deliver those goods are the opposite of their schtick when the step off the stage. Just another phony act. Now if Swift delivers nice love songs simply because that's just she wants to do then fine. I'm not expecting her to jam with Japanese noise artist Merzbow anytime soon or pull a Kathleen Hanna and scrawl "whore" on her belly and scream, "Suck my left one." While I find the instrumentation of her music to be bland and not contributing much to country-pop, it's fruitless to quickly suspect that her princess-fantasy is diabolically phony and must be ruined for society's sake.
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jenalicious
12/05/09

In reply to Jersey Shore: "Like a Horror Movie"
i have to say, ive never met a "guido" that was offended by the term. and ive met many a guido.
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Jenloveshercurves
12/05/09

In reply to Is Taylor Swift Being Set Up For A Fall?
Maybe we want her to be more adult. I don't like current country music because it's all bland and boring and nothing like Johnny Cash or even Pasty Cline or even Dolly. Are we expecting her to act like an adult when she is a product of her background? A fairly protected girl who writes about love and romance without knowing anything about it because she hasn't been allowed to feel anything but the sanitized version. Even Alanis Morisette who wrote some really amazing songs at Taylor's age was still showing her youth a little because as she aged she realized that love isn't as all encompassing as she felt it to be at 19. As adults, we have to encourage our youth to look at more. I have quite a few students that are doing the whole waiting until marriage thing and I want to be a mom and I say, that's great, but maybe you should give yourself room for reality. I try to let them know that their decision is their decision, but their decision to be a virgin is no more right or wrong than someone else's decision to not be one. I try to give them the wisdom of the few years I have on them while still letting them be age-appropriate. They're all about Taylor's age too.
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Le Kangourou de Kataroo
12/05/09

In reply to Is Taylor Swift Being Set Up For A Fall?
I would like to go on record that we should be referencing her as Taylor Swift, country-singer, pop-princess, and aspiring rap star.

Anyone who makes such an AWESOME video with T-Pain deserves as much. In fact, in the video she MOCKS her nice girl status "I KNIT SWEATERS, YO." in a way that's refreshing and kind of like "I get that I'm not that exciting of a person because I like to knit and bake but that's what I like to do let me wrap about it with T-Pain!" Because I'm 24, and I like to knit and bake.
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SUNNY1
12/05/09

@Le Kangourou de Kataroo: Everytime I see this video I laugh so hard. Knitters stand up!
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brendahamLincoln
12/05/09

In reply to Is Taylor Swift Being Set Up For A Fall?
My only problem with Swift is that her music is terrible. Keep on rocking those sparkly dresses and being fake-shocked when you win awards live via satellite, Taylor, but I'm gonna listen to L7 in my little corner over here.
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Copper
12/05/09

@brendahamLincoln: Agreed. Her music is not to my taste so I don't listen to her.
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Justine
12/05/09

@brendahamLincoln: Yeah, that. Which in my mind, makes what Kanye did to her even more inconsiderate. Him and Beyonce will be back to various award shows time and time again, year after year. Taylor's time in the sun is limited unless she makes some drastic changes, so she needs to enjoy it while it lasts. Even for a pop star, her music is saccharine, I'm talking shades of Debbie Boone.
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brendahamLincoln
12/05/09

@Justine: Wow, I didn't even think of that, but you're right. I'd be surprised if she's not playing county fairs in a few years time. She's super popular now, but I don't see her having the staying power of her "tormentor" or Beyonce.
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limber
12/05/09

In reply to Is Taylor Swift Being Set Up For A Fall?
I'm totally out of step with music culture, I had no idea that she was meant to be a sparkly princess. All I knew was that she wrote one of the Jonas brothers into a breakup anthem, and then twisted the knife with her "Hey Joe, I'm doin' real well, and hosting SNL!" singalogue. Which made me laugh and laugh.

So if she's meant to be a pure little lamb, I had no idea. Her songs are annoyingly catchy, and I find her (pretty tame) vindictive streak sort of awesome. Who HASN'T wanted to take a jab at their jerk ex-boyfriend/personal Kanye, while smiling sweetly?
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Bar Belle
12/05/09

@limber: I agree I had not really thought of what her public persona was set up to be.

I've always liked her simply because her songs are exactly like a teenager diary. At 20 going on 21 I'm at an age where I'm not in a teenage world anymore but I wouldn't know it by the teenage behavior this is still prominent in my work and university life.

When her first songs came out I was her prime target audience. I felt like she gave teenage girls away to be sad that didn't have the so-called emo vibe to it. It was a sparkly happiness that cried in her(my) room when relationships I had bigger dreams for fell to pieces.

For this reason I'll always support the (current) music she is putting out. And I'm going to enjoy myself at her concert this May :)
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suck_it_monkeys
12/05/09

In reply to Is Taylor Swift Being Set Up For A Fall?
You know what? I've always had a sort of demure, sweet, old-fashioned manner. It's not affected, it's just my personality. Which means that when people project their inaccurate assumptions and prejudices onto me, they are surprised to find out that I'm smart as a motherfucking whip, with frequently subversive ideas. Just because she isn't fitting strangers' ideas of what a feminist acts and looks like doesn't mean she isn't one, or won't be when she has some age and experience and good reading material under her belt.

Let her wear cute dresses and write songs about boys, but don't use those things to make guesses about her intelligence or beliefs.
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fembot111
12/05/09

@suck_it_monkeys: Oh ho! Thank you, that was exactly what I was trying to say ^

After all, feminism is a lot about accepting women how they accept themselves.
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rixatrix
12/05/09

@suck_it_monkeys: Well said - just because she isn't controversial doesn't mean that she's not smart, feminist, strong, or anything else. In fact, a female musician who can play both sides of the card in regards to femininity/feminism may reach a broader audience than anyone else could. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.
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smizmar
12/05/09

@suck_it_monkeys: Thank you...I'm the same way and frequently misunderstood! There may be a lot the public doesn't know about her.
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imamouse_duh
12/05/09

@suck_it_monkeys and @fembot111:

Even though it totally irked me to hear college-age girls belt out "Romeo save me, I've been feelin' so alone," I would have been totally inclined to agree with you because a feminist certainly does not need to be overtly sexual. But then I saw her "15" video, which Sady Doyle discusses in the link hortense listed, and I was swayed Doyle's analysis. The judge-y attitude goes beyond "I'm a cute, doe-eyed romantic" and into the dangerous realm of slut shaming.

But one song does not a career make, so I guess we'll see what happens when she gets older. Luckily 15 wasn't one of her more popular hits.
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SUNNY1
12/05/09

@imamouse_duh: Except the girl she sings about is her best friend. And the redhead in the video is actually the best friend. I don't really see the slut shaming. The problem isn't that she lost her virginity, but that the guy she had sex with was an ass. At least, that's how I always read it.
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girlzilla
12/05/09

@suck_it_monkeys: rrrmmmm THANKYOUMUCH.

Let's get together and send her a "THIS IS WHAT A FEMINIST LOOKS LIKE" t-shirt, please?
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SomeAuthorGirl
12/05/09

In reply to Is Taylor Swift Being Set Up For A Fall?
Sometimes the simplest answer is more than likely the truth; that Taylor Swift is a 19 year old girl with a lot of talent. Yours truly had some pretty ridiculous notions about life, the world, and relationships when I was 19, and I'm definitely not singing the same tune (ha ha, see what I did there) 13 years later. I doubt she will be either.
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