Jezebel 
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New York, 1:26 AM
Tue Dec 8
68 posts in the last 24 hours
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12/07/09
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12/07/09
I ... feel I may have missed something.
I ... feel it may not be a problem.
12/07/09
If a man terrorizes his wife and children, using only light slaps, financial threats or physical intimidation like screaming in their faces, degrading them publicly and privately or throwing and damaging objects, is it not an abusive relationship? I would say it most definitely is, and the elements of terror, power imbalance and control are the defining aspects of an abusive relationship.
It's wrong to say that women can't abuses men because they can't beat them to a bloody pulp, and it sets up a dangerous social and legal precedent that is damaging for all victims of abuse.
12/07/09
I think that if they do a movie adaptation of THIS it's going to be a creepy art-house flick.
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12/07/09
I am amazed at all "the what about teh menz" pre-emptive strikes in the thread.
I understand the reasoning behind a lot of people who believe I am equalizing the situation. I am not. I am, however, looking at the reactions of a partiarchial/kyriarchial system.
As I wrote above:
I know many people will shrug this off as well - but it's worth asking why we sweep violence against women under the rug, and play violence against men for laughs, but are still too afraid to risk confronting any of these issues directly.
During the Chris Brown and Rihanna discussions, I was frustrated by how many people did not want to even raise the conversation. And, even after Rihanna's photos are released and Brown copped to it, it isn't as if people were clamoring to have a national dialogue on domestic violence. Many people did not have their views challenged at all. And many people and sites participated in a lot of victim blaming.
This situation is different. There is no telling if something happened. However, looking at the way in which we frame convos about domestic violence is always worth examining.
There are a lot of people who do not come forward about things they are going through, possibly because society disregards their narratives. Downthread, greeneyedfem points out how the non-hetero narrative is often erased by this narrative:
It can be difficult for LGBT folks to admit that violence and/or controlling behavior is an issue in their relationships (it's a "straight" issue), and hard to find resources and support when they try to get help. Many shelters do not have training, resources, or space for LGBT clients.
In addition, it leaves some men more vulnerable and more willing to perpetuate/allow/accept abuse. I write on sexual assault, rape, and sexual abuse often. Normally, my articles are focused on women. But I often get reminders from readers about harmful dynamics that impact hetero men, gay men, and lesbians that are not discussed as often.
Because of the dynamics my readers pointed out, I looked at Andreana Clay's essay in Home Girls Make Some Noise about queer sexuality in a hip hop space with different eyes. Especially here, when she writes:
I am in now way suggesting that the objectification of women is thrown out completely. Bending your girl over to the front and telling her to touch her toes and having her do so in high heels and a thong may not be the path to liberation. I also make no claims that queer women don’t engage in harmful acts upon one another. I was once at a party and heard a woman telling someone else that she and her friends pulled a train on "this bitch" that she picked up at a club one night. And, to my horror, one of her friends standing next to her asked her "why she didn’t invite her to that party." The same objectification and violence towards women can happen regardless of the gender of the protagonist. And queer communities are similar to the hip-hop community in that they reflect popular culture and discourse. This is not to exclude these actions, but to point out what this ideology, which some of us have internalized, suggests about the value of Black female bodies in this culture.
In addition, it was my readers pointing out how they didn't know how to discuss certain things that happened to them which led me to look at Lil Wayne's loss of virginity narrative (widely known in hip-hop circles) as one that started with sexual abuse:
Lil’ Wayne seems to me to be uncomfortable with the line of questioning, and yet Jimmy Kimmel and the other man on the show continue to laugh and joke around about it, even after Lil’ Wayne says very clearly that the experience was harmful to him.
It seems like a reasonable question, to ask what the hell is wrong with Jimmy Kimmel. But the problem is, while not excusing his actions for a single second, that he has a whole culture (and audience) backing him up.
In the majority of sexual assault cases, where a woman is the victim of a man’s violence, rape apology is rooted primarily not in the denial that male violence exists, but in the denial that male violence means something and needs to be stopped. Conversely, in cases where a man is the victim of a woman’s violence, rape apologism is strongly rooted in the denial that women’s actions can count as violence at all — and especially that their actions can count as sexual violence against men, who are routinely construed as incapable of being victims.
In cases of both of these two types of sexual violence (though hardly the only two that exist), the victim is accused of "wanting it." But while the female victim is also, when that reasoning fails, accused of deserving it, this seems to not be the case with men. No, they just always wanted it. (Again, talking only about male victims of women — gay male victims of other men are routinely portrayed as "deserving" it as well as "wanting" it.) There are no sneers about what he should and shouldn’t have been doing. Just jokes about how awesome the assault must have been for him. Like we see Jimmy Kimmel engaging in above.
And, as my correspondent AJ points out:
Lil’ Wayne, being a Black male–and a hip-hop artist at that, in an industry that says Black male voices are profitable and, therefore, listenable only in R&B and hip-hop–simply isn’t allowed that same space to talk about such issues.
I know space is at a premium in feminism.
I know that it is so easy to have those who are not in solidarity with us continuously dominate our voices and narratives as well.
But I do think we shouldn't be scared up speaking up against harmful systems, however they manifest - especially if its two sides of the same oppressive coin.
12/07/09
I understand the reasoning behind a lot of people who believe I am equalizing the situation. I am not. I am, however, looking at the reactions of a partiarchial/kyriarchial system.
I think that's the point being missed. Your article evinces this point clearly. About the-- "what about teh menz." I am a bit confused by what this means; if it's the comments pointing out that women are subject to physical abuse or whether it's people pointing out that men do indeed get abused.
I was taken aback and frustrated by the "meh. Women can't really hurt a men so it's not abuse." Or the comments claiming it's a weak comparison to the abuse women suffer or just a red flag.
12/07/09
I don't see anyone in this thread saying that female-on-male violence is trivial or insubstantial. In fact, if anything, I think people here take female-on-male violence quite seriously. (You won't find a whole bunch of SNL-style joking around here.)
On another note, personally it's the accusation that feminists don't care about male suffering that will start to get my hackles up. Which I do hear a lot from the male commenters around here. It seems to me that the culture at large might not take it seriously, but when people start arguing that it's "feminism" that has caused this I kind of want to laugh.
12/07/09
I also think you are overstating the case and don't see the same things as you in the comments. "a weak comparison to the abuse women suffer" is not the point being made either.
12/07/09
Yeah I get that, but lets focus on the topic at hand.
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12/07/09
He was a gang member and drug dealer. Much larger and stronger than me. I was at the end of my rope and completely lost all sense of decency and punched him (and pushed, scratched et al).
Surprisingly, plenty of people, both friends and acquaintences seemed to think me justified (I won't go into the details here). I find this shocking given were the tables turned, the opinions and reality* would have been
different.
In addition to what I firmly believe:
domestic violence can never be justified regardless of which gender
was the perpetrator.
*while I was thrown in jail, I was also allowed $1,000 bail and because no charges were brought by him, avoided both a court appearance and permanent mark on my record.
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I mean: it's wishful thinking to think that a cop is going to believe a vastly larger man when he says "I was just defending myself."
In any case, I'm convinced that this SNL sketch has just set back male-female relations by about forty years. Way to go NBC.
12/07/09
Even though he was covered in bruises and gashes (from her fake nails), guess who was interrogated for suspected abuse?
Don't get me wrong -- I'm GLAD the doctors and nurses take suspected violence against women seriously. I just wish it could work both ways.
12/07/09
I really hate it when attractive women are congratulated for being attractive and mediocre. It's not hard to be attractive; it is hard to do a job well. Women who are ugly or beautiful or regular should be congratulated when they are awesome and nothing less.
I am both. I accept your congratulations and offer mine in return, as I suspect most Jezzies are both beautiful and awesome.
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#groupthink
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#groupthink
12/07/09
It can be difficult for LGBT folks to admit that violence and/or controlling behavior is an issue in their relationships (it's a "straight" issue), and hard to find resources and support when they try to get help. Many shelters do not have training, resources, or space for LGBT clients.
Straight men seeking support/help must run into the same kinds of barriers: not wanting to admit that they are being abused, having people not believe that it's a serious issue, not having DV resources available.
I think this absolutely has to do with cultural ideas about "men" and "women." "Real" men are strong and powerful -- so how can we take seriously the idea of women and gay/bi men as abusers? The thought of a woman or a gay man inflicting pain is a joke (see SNL skit above).
Working against a DV culture means addressing what a healthy/unhealthy relationship looks like, no matter the gender/sexuality of the people involved.
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12/07/09
A lot of the eyerolling made me be like, uh, domestic violence, isn't a hetrosexual event. Having gay and lesbian friends who were in hellish abusive relationships.