I truly wish I could get together a bunch of visibly pregnant women and come face to face with these protesters outside an abortion clinic and scream at them. "YOU FUCKSTICKS DON'T WANT US TO ABORT, SO HOW ABOUT WE DELIVER THESE "MIRACLES" AND GIVE THEM TO YOU?"
Or better yet, will any of you guys help pay the medical bills? Will any of you help raise these children? Will any of you be so kind as to offer free childcare and babysitting services? Can you bring us what you can in the form of diapers and formula and clothing? Can you donate us your leftover food and hand-me-downs?
I want them to be confronted with these questions and feel uncomfortable. I want them to deal with people belligerently screaming in their faces while holding up angry signs...I want them to look these women in the eye and offer meaningful, substantial solutions AND the most basic forms of support assistance if they carry their pregnancies to term.
All of this reminds me of Obama saying that the two sides of the abortion debate need to find "common ground." The more I think about it, the more disappointed I am. Hurt, even.
I realize, in context, it was ballsy--he was talking at a historically Catholic university where a small but vocal group was trying to humiliate him. He's the President of a country that's simultaneously "moderately conservative," Christian, and concerned with the economy above all else.(Fuck that...Christian in name only; how many of these Christians are consistent OR INFORMED about what Christianity actually refers to, or what it's most important principles encompass? It's like Mike Huckabee talking about marriage as an institution that's always existed between "one adult man and one adult woman" and then compare public acquiescence of gay marriage to, say, the marriage of an adult and a minor ...motherfucker, Mary was 15 when she married Joseph! What Bible is HE reading?? Same old shit. People accept misinformation and then use that to demonize gay marriage or "abortionists" like Tiller. FUCK THEM.)
I'm betting a majority of those "pro-life" poll respondents are also pro-birth control and are fucking STUPID and lucky enough that they can take it for granted that they're complicit with "pro-lifers" who would eliminate birth control if they could. I don't understand WHY more people don't know that. It isn't that hush-hush--you can infer from plenty of mainstream news sources, not just the likes of Jezebel or Feministing.
Do they just not care?
I don't understand WHY the media has the gall to use the term "pro-life" and "pro-abortion" even when describing a murderous act committed by the "pro-life" side against the (apparent) baby-eaters, those fat, hairy feminists, the liberal extremists who want to destroy the nuclear family and religion itself and simply want their abortions...the other services "abortionists" provide and the patients they serve just don't exist.
I can't believe how lackadaisical people are. It terrifies me. And it makes me angry and bitter. When will they understand what "pro-choice" refers to, when only the very wealthy can access birth control or when their daughters--impregnated by a rapist, are turned away and shoved out the door? When someone they love bears a child that spends a few months as a vegetable, then dies while the parents watch?
Common ground? Common ground with a side who's loudest and most active representatives don't want to do anything to reduce unplanned pregnancies and abortions beyond terrorizing DOCTORS like Tiller, and their patients? Common ground with a side that doesn't accept that this issue--abortion as a legal right, and the right of "abortionists" like Tiller to serve rape victims, couples seeking birth control, etc.---has been settled int he Supreme Court THIRTY YEARS AGO (as others have mentioned)?
Talk to me about "common ground" when Planned Parenthood firebombs a megachurch led by the likes of Rick Warren or patronized by people like Randall Terry.
When we're attacked and our health care providers are murdered, the terrorists are "pro-life" and Tiller's friends and loved ones are simply "pro-abortion." Not pro-choice versus anti-choice.
I wonder how a retaliation against Roeder and the assholes who probably abetted the attack would be covered.
We can't win. Not in this lifetime.
I feel like a fool for even expecting a little more than a soundbite...the economy is on fire, why should Obama or anyone but a few "extremist" Democratic members in Congress give this a second thought?
@maude_flanders: "Talk to me about "common ground" when Planned Parenthood firebombs a megachurch led by the likes of Rick Warren or patronized by people like Randall Terry."
I've been thinking that, too. If someone wants to talk about the differences between the two schools of thought on abortion rights, I think one of its fundamental differences is pro-choice people don't stalk, target, and kill pro-life representatives, at work, in their homes, or in their churches.
These people are going to die, and they are going to go to wherever you go, and they will encouter their God, and their God will shake his head at them and say "You are a disgrace."
I know their God, and their God would be fucking ashamed of them for being so desperately intolerant.
Anyone who assumes that someone does not have the right to have their own opinion, no matter what side of the argument you find yourself on, is a self-important narcissist who has no reason to be spouting directions at anyone.
@ihateemo: Funny, the first comment called a whole group of people "stupid" because they didn't agree with that person's assessment of the situation. It's that kind of attitude that roots issues like these in stone and prevents any progress from occurring.
People of deep religious faith do not believe in abortions, much less late-term abortions and while some of those folks are awfully disturbed people, I'm not sure how calling them names, or thinking them to be inferior because of their religious belief is any more constructive.
@greengrey: I agree. In fact, wouldn't forcing everyone to live in accordance with your personal religious beliefs make you a "self-important narcissist"?
Does anyone have any good ideas about how to deal with protesters when they descend upon your town/campus/OB/GYN? I never bothered to engage with them, and most people just ignore them, but a friend of mine is dead set on going around soliciting UNICEF donations from them next time. I maintain the point would go right over their heads, she maintains that it would be the Idealogical Fail Olympics. Thoughts?
@syneblue: Personally, I always go the "ignoring them" route. At satisfying as it sounds like it would be to yell, scream, spit, and fight, I can't imagine that they're interested in a word I've got to say. So I keep on going and refuse to stoop to their level.
Can I put in a nice word for Kansas and point out the acres and acres and acres of land that are currently covered with wind turbines? Wind powah! Also my mom and dad who love everyone and fully support women's rights and happen to live there?
If it makes you feel better, I know for a fact that there are several med students at a prominent med school around here who are planning on performing abortions in their practices once they graduate. And my doctor was a young woman who couldn't have been older than her early 30's. I know that this is anecdotal, but it was encouraging to me. This can't be the only place where doctors are committed to helping women exercise their right to choose.
@SarahMC: ball-cutting cybersuccubus: What scares me the most is the sense I get that the anti-choice movement is strengthening, that's it's much better organized and better funded and that its supporters are, if not more committed, more active than our pro-choice base. I have this unshakeable sense that a tide is turning and I think it's largely because of complacency. So many of us, myself included up until the past year, really believe that our right could never be taken away. It scares me quite a lot.
Or, you know, I'm just being my usual self, wallowing in the pessimism porn we're getting so much of these days. But does anyone else feel this way?
I feel like we need a more targeted campaign to protect ourselves, because right now, it seems we're being out-marketed and overshadowed.
@JerseyGrrrl: Oh I completely agree. I saw a woman with a March for Women's Lives t-shirt on, riding a bike this morning, and I was like, there's one! There's a person who supports women! We're not extinct! It was sad.
@morninggloria: I was actually surprised to see foliage in the background of the clip. In my brain, Kansas has the landscape of the moon and there are zero trees.
@Lady Skittlehattington: I know, right? Kansas is lovely except for the people. Ole Freddy protested at my high school not long back. Apparently they had a gay homecoming king.
@chillary: Oh christ on a cracker. Of all the things in this world they can worry about, they protested a PROM KING?!! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! I swear, if these people took the time and energy that they spend picketing abortion/protesting gay rights, and invested it in, oh I dunno, ending world hunger, we'd see some real change in the world.
All of the Kansas upheavel really makes me miss my mom who was known to drive by the Phelps clan and honk and flip them the bird. Granny Penguino marched in a pro-choice march with me and my sister back in the 90s. She was considered an irreverant soul who sometimes hosted "goddess" parties and took me to the Country Club Plaza in KCMO for my first facial when I was 20 yrs old. Granny P would have had something incredibly wry and intelligent to say right now that would have made me feel hopeful and strong. It's up to all of us to stand together to make sure no one -- no matter their weapon -- takes away our freedom of choice. Sorry to sound all William Wallace here, but it's so hard to see this gorgeous state of Kansas inhabited by subhumans like Roeder (who went to high school with my aunt! ugh).
@Mama Penguino: Not at all! Granny Penguino sounds like an inspiration! I wish I could do something more than sit here feeling hopeless about the future of womankind.
@Mama Penguino: I get you WIlliam Wallace. When I first saw the screen capture of the video, I thought "Ugh! Pickets=Phelps!" And I went to that same high school. It has a Hall of Fame for famous graduates. I am petitioning for a Hall of Shame for Roeder. :( There seems to be a slow, steady resurgence in NE Kansas of rational politics and a commitment to the arts, so I am (cautiously) hopeful.
@Mama Penguino: Just reading that makes me miss Grandmother Sunflowercat, who would also have been livid over this -- first because of the murder of a brave man, and second because the people who celebrate and advocated that murder are maligning our religion by doing so.
@midwestdesigner: Back at you, although you were there so much more recently than I!!!
@hollygolightly: Yes, still in Kansas. Despite the crazies, I truly love this place. Where else would Little P and I be able to have a pastoral commute, smog-free, through the gorgeous Flint Hills???
I'm still trying to decide if it's more bothersome to see crusty old men or women (who, one would think, would empathize) asserting control over womens bodies. I think it's the former.
The women make me scratch my head, the men make my skin crawl.
@Penny: Right? I really don't know which is worse! It's a toss up, but I agree, the icky old men are creepier. Worst of all is when the old guys stand up in front of congress with a diagram of the women's reproductive organs and start discussing pregnancy and abortion using a pointer stick. Could you imagine such a vulgar discussion of the male body by congresswomen?
@Penny: All of them are obviously scientists with a Robo Soul Test A Tron 2000, so they can personally attest to the fully realized humanness of embroys.
@Penny: I think the men are worse. At least most of those women have some idea of pregnancy, and maybe their experience wasn't so bad so they're simply misguided. The men, on the other hand...I really feel like they just want to control yet another aspect of our lives. It's easy for men to be anti-choice because it's a choice that they'll never have to make
@PrarieMuffin: I'm not trying to make a contest out of it. Rather, I've been conflicted about which group bothers me more. It's more about their intentions than anything.
Is there a difference between "la-di-da feminists" and the regular kind? More musical talent? A propensity to break into choreographed dance numbers while coercing innocent young girls into their dirty sex habits? Jaunty hats?
Holy. Shit. This sent shivers up my spine. I was too young to pay attention to politics in 1991 so I don't remember the "Summer of Mercy" but oh my god, if that happened today? I just don't even know what to think or do.
It's at times like this I wish time travel was possible so we could jump to a shiny new planet and leave these wackos to breed themselves into extinction.
06/04/09
I truly wish I could get together a bunch of visibly pregnant women and come face to face with these protesters outside an abortion clinic and scream at them. "YOU FUCKSTICKS DON'T WANT US TO ABORT, SO HOW ABOUT WE DELIVER THESE "MIRACLES" AND GIVE THEM TO YOU?"
Or better yet, will any of you guys help pay the medical bills? Will any of you help raise these children? Will any of you be so kind as to offer free childcare and babysitting services? Can you bring us what you can in the form of diapers and formula and clothing? Can you donate us your leftover food and hand-me-downs?
I want them to be confronted with these questions and feel uncomfortable. I want them to deal with people belligerently screaming in their faces while holding up angry signs...I want them to look these women in the eye and offer meaningful, substantial solutions AND the most basic forms of support assistance if they carry their pregnancies to term.
06/04/09
I realize, in context, it was ballsy--he was talking at a historically Catholic university where a small but vocal group was trying to humiliate him. He's the President of a country that's simultaneously "moderately conservative," Christian, and concerned with the economy above all else.(Fuck that...Christian in name only; how many of these Christians are consistent OR INFORMED about what Christianity actually refers to, or what it's most important principles encompass? It's like Mike Huckabee talking about marriage as an institution that's always existed between "one adult man and one adult woman" and then compare public acquiescence of gay marriage to, say, the marriage of an adult and a minor ...motherfucker, Mary was 15 when she married Joseph! What Bible is HE reading?? Same old shit. People accept misinformation and then use that to demonize gay marriage or "abortionists" like Tiller. FUCK THEM.)
I'm betting a majority of those "pro-life" poll respondents are also pro-birth control and are fucking STUPID and lucky enough that they can take it for granted that they're complicit with "pro-lifers" who would eliminate birth control if they could. I don't understand WHY more people don't know that. It isn't that hush-hush--you can infer from plenty of mainstream news sources, not just the likes of Jezebel or Feministing.
Do they just not care?
I don't understand WHY the media has the gall to use the term "pro-life" and "pro-abortion" even when describing a murderous act committed by the "pro-life" side against the (apparent) baby-eaters, those fat, hairy feminists, the liberal extremists who want to destroy the nuclear family and religion itself and simply want their abortions...the other services "abortionists" provide and the patients they serve just don't exist.
I can't believe how lackadaisical people are. It terrifies me. And it makes me angry and bitter. When will they understand what "pro-choice" refers to, when only the very wealthy can access birth control or when their daughters--impregnated by a rapist, are turned away and shoved out the door? When someone they love bears a child that spends a few months as a vegetable, then dies while the parents watch?
Common ground? Common ground with a side who's loudest and most active representatives don't want to do anything to reduce unplanned pregnancies and abortions beyond terrorizing DOCTORS like Tiller, and their patients? Common ground with a side that doesn't accept that this issue--abortion as a legal right, and the right of "abortionists" like Tiller to serve rape victims, couples seeking birth control, etc.---has been settled int he Supreme Court THIRTY YEARS AGO (as others have mentioned)?
Talk to me about "common ground" when Planned Parenthood firebombs a megachurch led by the likes of Rick Warren or patronized by people like Randall Terry.
When we're attacked and our health care providers are murdered, the terrorists are "pro-life" and Tiller's friends and loved ones are simply "pro-abortion." Not pro-choice versus anti-choice.
I wonder how a retaliation against Roeder and the assholes who probably abetted the attack would be covered.
We can't win. Not in this lifetime.
I feel like a fool for even expecting a little more than a soundbite...the economy is on fire, why should Obama or anyone but a few "extremist" Democratic members in Congress give this a second thought?
06/04/09
I've been thinking that, too. If someone wants to talk about the differences between the two schools of thought on abortion rights, I think one of its fundamental differences is pro-choice people don't stalk, target, and kill pro-life representatives, at work, in their homes, or in their churches.
06/04/09
I know their God, and their God would be fucking ashamed of them for being so desperately intolerant.
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People of deep religious faith do not believe in abortions, much less late-term abortions and while some of those folks are awfully disturbed people, I'm not sure how calling them names, or thinking them to be inferior because of their religious belief is any more constructive.
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I never bothered to engage with them, and most people just ignore them, but a friend of mine is dead set on going around soliciting UNICEF donations from them next time. I maintain the point would go right over their heads, she maintains that it would be the Idealogical Fail Olympics.
Thoughts?
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If it makes you feel better, I know for a fact that there are several med students at a prominent med school around here who are planning on performing abortions in their practices once they graduate. And my doctor was a young woman who couldn't have been older than her early 30's. I know that this is anecdotal, but it was encouraging to me. This can't be the only place where doctors are committed to helping women exercise their right to choose.
06/04/09
Or, you know, I'm just being my usual self, wallowing in the pessimism porn we're getting so much of these days. But does anyone else feel this way?
I feel like we need a more targeted campaign to protect ourselves, because right now, it seems we're being out-marketed and overshadowed.
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I love this!
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@hollygolightly: Yes, still in Kansas. Despite the crazies, I truly love this place. Where else would Little P and I be able to have a pastoral commute, smog-free, through the gorgeous Flint Hills???
06/04/09
The women make me scratch my head, the men make my skin crawl.
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