A lot of people have commented on the fact that it is incredibly difficult to get cast in films once your a "woman of a certain age," but I don't get it.
I think that women are narrowing their scope by trying to hold on to their youth. And as much as the machine tries to keep them in that position, women do have a choice.
For instance, a lot of women produce things, but it often seems to be something that is popular to their genre, for instance Drew Barrymore's production company has done a lot of romantic comedies, but she did something different from "40 Dates," and also produced Donnie Darko.
It seems to me that women (especially powerful women) in Hollywood are marginalizing themselves by trying to "stay cute," as opposed to "being creative."
I mean, Mary Pickford helped found United Artists in 1919! I guess my point is, why aren't women more in charge of their collective destinies? If I had Jennifer Aniston's money, I wouldn't be starring in "He's Just Not That Into You," I would be searching for the best fucking independent movie I could find. I would be searching writing websites for good scripts.
I guess my question is...don't women have a choice as to how they stay relevant in Hollywood?
@Steve Holt's Mother Part Deux: But if they have to produce their own movies to get roles, doesn't that mean that it's harder for women than it is for men? Mickey Rourke and John Travolta didn't have to produce the vehicles for their comebacks.
Also, older women have to look like young women to stay in the game. Demi Moore and Jennifer Aniston are not allowed to stop having work done and dieting and exercising like olympians. Aging men who look aged(like Jack Nicholson and George Clooney) still get cast as romantic leads.
@Steve Holt's Mother Part Deux: That's like saying women don't need to worry about workplace sexism because they can just become CEOs of their own companies.
@nora charles: Thank you! You get it! Why should be deal with sexism when we can be running the company?
(Unless you were being ironic, and saying that it's difficult for women to become the boss. In that case I disagree, we always have the capability to be "the boss.")
I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around The Wrestler being a feminist film just because the male character is being physically exploited alongside the female character...
Maybe it's because many popular female actresses can't act. Think about our culture before killing me...the actresses who can act succeed after 40 (See: helen mirren, Julia Roberts, Nicole Kidman, Kyra Sedgwick, Meryl, etc). But many famous actresses are propped up becuase they are attractive rather than that they can act (see: Jessica
Alba...pretty much everyone who graces the celebrity rags come to think of it). So obviously when they get old and "unattractive" they aren't going to have a career because their career was based on hotness and sexy bods which, let's face it, in American Culture are not really there once someone hits 40 (which I DO NOT agree with, but unfotunately I don't dictate the tastes of America).
So maybe women don't have careers later because the ones we hear the most about are the ones who are sex symbols and sex symbols without talent are, for better or worse, destined to flame out when they lose that status. And this is true for a lot of men who were attractive and lost it as well (think every celebrity you had hanging on your wall from the pages of teen bop when you were 12), but it is easier to get into the business as an unattractive man than as an unattractive woman, hence the statistics are skewed.
Anyone?
I don't know why I'm all over this post...I really don't wan to clean my apt i guess
Actresses can have a career renaissance as opposed to a comeback. Meryl Streep is surely a case in point. Her film career went rather quiet in the 1990s but now she is a major player again. Like other actresses of her era, Meryl had a strong theatrical background and has been able to have an equally successful career on stage as well on television.
Helen Mirren is an actress who I first remember on stage and on screen in the 1980s. I was so entranced by her theatrical role as Moll Cutpurse in the 1980s I saw the production a dozen times. I must have seen her in Excalibur at least a dozen times as well. At first, to most Americans she was probably best known as Director Taylor Hackford's partner. She used to speak wryly how people would all but push her out of the way at Hollywood parties to get to him. After the huge success of her television roles in recent years and of course her oscar winning performance, Helen's film career has never been brighter.
I think women can make a comeback in their film career, as long as they are actresses who can genuinely act rather than simply film stars. An ageing starlet, whose career was based solely on her youthful looks, is not going to have much luck making a comeback after those looks have faded.
Without question, it's easier for men. Men will be forgiven for being bad, for getting old and for making mistakes. Women - not so much. A true female equivalent comeback story would be Courtney Love. Very similar messes: botched surgeries, lots of issues, incoherence, irreverence. If Mickey can make it back and still be crazy, then in theory so should Courtney but who knows if that would ever happen.
@trulymadlyme: No kidding. And she's a fuckload smarter than Mickey Rourke. But remember, he wouldn't touch her with a ten-foot pole on a desert island. Because he's CHOICE.
@ElleL: Completely entertaining! And I like her candor and irreverence, I just wish for her sake she could harness it a little better. She'd be fierce if she wasn't such a mess.
Eh I would say if Lohan could get her act together, she would have a great comeback. But was she really ever on top? Mean Girls does not a career make.
Someone like Winona Ryder, I would argue doesnt seem to WANT it. You have to want to comeback to actually get there. Rourke took a role that was originally for Nicolas Cage (yeah, The Wrestler would have been HORRIFIC with Cage) and he took a chance. You have to put it all out there to reap the rewards.
@ElleL: I'm somewhat inclined to think that female aging stars are more inclined not to TRY a comeback because they know how hard it will be, and that it will require some major transformative measures. To a certain extent I think it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, but at the same time there is certainly a reason that they think those things.
@BeccaSaurus Rex: YES! Barrymore would be the example I was looking for. She was a train wreck for quite a while and managed to come out on top. Oh man, I still remember the strip show she did for Letterman, haha.
@sequined: @Vivi21: I was actually in the Hammerstein Ballroom in NYC the night before they filmed Rourke's final match in the movie. We heard they were filming a movie about wrestling, but no idea what was going on. I so badly wish I could have been there for it. Nic Cage would have turned that movie into an absolute joke, the man cannot act his way out of a paper bag.
I think the bigger issue is whether the fallen star accepts there faults. For example Charlie Sheen and Robert Downey Jr. have dabbled in quite a bit of smut publicly but seem to still be quite likable and able to renew their careers. This is the same for women like Kathy Griffin or Tina Fey who aren't super attractive or young but remain extremely likable with their frankness and ability to illustrate their so called faults in a universal and appealing manner.
@Freshprincess50: Maybe we're drawn to women who don't seem to take themselves too seriously. (Though I'd like to note that obviously many, many people think Tina Fey is super attractive.)
Also Hugh Grant came back from a fairly major PR nightmare.
It's always harder for women to make a comeback. Our society is much more forgiving of men, even when they do heinous things (look at some of the support being given to Chris Brown, while Wynona Rider, a true talent, still hasn't been able to get back to prior status ever since the shoplifting incident at Saks). It's not impossible for a woman, but opportunities are few and far between, especially if the actress is no longer young and hot according to Hollywood's standards. The way to remedy that is to somehow break the glass ceiling that still exists in Tinseltown and have more women calling the shots (i.e. directing, producing, screen writing).
@plothole: Damn it. I wrote a long comment here and then it was eaten. Anyway, I think Drew is different because she is a Barrymore and they are a Hollywood fixture. It wasn't like she was ever going to fade out of the industry completely simply because she is who she is.
@kelsium: That, and she made her comeback when she was in her 20s, so her window of opportunity had not closed yet. Had she been in her late-30s or older, I think she'd have found it much more difficult.
For women, just getting a good role after winning an Oscar is a challenge enough. There's an Oscar curse on Best Actresses: think about Gwyneth, Halle, Sally Field, Tatum, etc.
The actresses who do well after Oscars are those who bounce between starring and supporting roles, like Meryl, Judi and Cate.
02/22/09
02/22/09
I think that women are narrowing their scope by trying to hold on to their youth. And as much as the machine tries to keep them in that position, women do have a choice.
For instance, a lot of women produce things, but it often seems to be something that is popular to their genre, for instance Drew Barrymore's production company has done a lot of romantic comedies, but she did something different from "40 Dates," and also produced Donnie Darko.
It seems to me that women (especially powerful women) in Hollywood are marginalizing themselves by trying to "stay cute," as opposed to "being creative."
I mean, Mary Pickford helped found United Artists in 1919! I guess my point is, why aren't women more in charge of their collective destinies? If I had Jennifer Aniston's money, I wouldn't be starring in "He's Just Not That Into You," I would be searching for the best fucking independent movie I could find. I would be searching writing websites for good scripts.
I guess my question is...don't women have a choice as to how they stay relevant in Hollywood?
02/22/09
Also, older women have to look like young women to stay in the game. Demi Moore and Jennifer Aniston are not allowed to stop having work done and dieting and exercising like olympians. Aging men who look aged(like Jack Nicholson and George Clooney) still get cast as romantic leads.
02/22/09
02/22/09
02/23/09
Yes, and women who wait to get cast alongside of them are buying into studio bullshit. Take the power you have and change the system.
02/23/09
(Unless you were being ironic, and saying that it's difficult for women to become the boss. In that case I disagree, we always have the capability to be "the boss.")
02/23/09
02/22/09
02/22/09
02/22/09
That about sums it up, I think.
02/22/09
Maybe it's because many popular female actresses can't act. Think about our culture before killing me...the actresses who can act succeed after 40 (See: helen mirren, Julia Roberts, Nicole Kidman, Kyra Sedgwick, Meryl, etc). But many famous actresses are propped up becuase they are attractive rather than that they can act (see: Jessica
Alba...pretty much everyone who graces the celebrity rags come to think of it). So obviously when they get old and "unattractive" they aren't going to have a career because their career was based on hotness and sexy bods which, let's face it, in American Culture are not really there once someone hits 40 (which I DO NOT agree with, but unfotunately I don't dictate the tastes of America).
So maybe women don't have careers later because the ones we hear the most about are the ones who are sex symbols and sex symbols without talent are, for better or worse, destined to flame out when they lose that status. And this is true for a lot of men who were attractive and lost it as well (think every celebrity you had hanging on your wall from the pages of teen bop when you were 12), but it is easier to get into the business as an unattractive man than as an unattractive woman, hence the statistics are skewed.
Anyone?
I don't know why I'm all over this post...I really don't wan to clean my apt i guess
02/22/09
02/22/09
02/22/09
13 sounds really good.
02/22/09
Helen Mirren is an actress who I first remember on stage and on screen in the 1980s. I was so entranced by her theatrical role as Moll Cutpurse in the 1980s I saw the production a dozen times. I must have seen her in Excalibur at least a dozen times as well. At first, to most Americans she was probably best known as Director Taylor Hackford's partner. She used to speak wryly how people would all but push her out of the way at Hollywood parties to get to him. After the huge success of her television roles in recent years and of course her oscar winning performance, Helen's film career has never been brighter.
I think women can make a comeback in their film career, as long as they are actresses who can genuinely act rather than simply film stars. An ageing starlet, whose career was based solely on her youthful looks, is not going to have much luck making a comeback after those looks have faded.
02/22/09
02/22/09
02/22/09
02/22/09
02/22/09
02/22/09
02/22/09
02/22/09
Someone like Winona Ryder, I would argue doesnt seem to WANT it. You have to want to comeback to actually get there. Rourke took a role that was originally for Nicolas Cage (yeah, The Wrestler would have been HORRIFIC with Cage) and he took a chance. You have to put it all out there to reap the rewards.
02/22/09
02/22/09
02/22/09
02/22/09
02/22/09
02/22/09
02/22/09
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02/22/09
Also Hugh Grant came back from a fairly major PR nightmare.
02/22/09
02/22/09
02/22/09
guys over 40 turn into wizards... i.e. - gandalf.
RESEARCH before you write this stuff, ok Jezzies.
/sarcasm
02/22/09
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02/22/09
The actresses who do well after Oscars are those who bounce between starring and supporting roles, like Meryl, Judi and Cate.