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Temporary Insanity: Playing Crazy's Not Funny
Critics Are Of Many Minds About The United States Of Tara
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meritxell: an erotic life
01/27/09

In reply to Temporary Insanity: Playing Crazy's Not Funny
Tangentally related, but did anyone else read Self-Made Man? I thought it was awesome.
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Tart of Darkness
01/27/09

In reply to Temporary Insanity: Playing Crazy's Not Funny
I just tried to read this book and it was IMO stultifying. It's clear that Vincent is very antagonistic toward mental health providers even before she went into the hospital undercover. She was pretty deliberately provoking toward staff. And she was pretty treatment resistant before.

If you have suicidal I won't get out of bed unless I'm in a coffin depression, you don't stop taking your meds because you gain 20 pounds. What you do is exercise more and remind yourself that if you didn't have the meds you'd hardly weigh anything at all once you were done decomposing.

What I have to say about those who have been in the hospital (and I have been too) if you are out and alive then you probably got some help there even if the only help was being kept briefly in an environment where you couldn't harm yourself. I believe I got more help than that and I wanted it. When I have really bad times, I definitely think of signing myself back in -- haven't yet -- but I wouldn't hesitate to do it if I needed more safety than I have in my every day life.

And this is in spite of the fact that the usual psychiatrist for my health care plan in the hospital is such a jackass that admitting people to the hospital is really the only job that they let him do.
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jejune768
01/27/09

In reply to Temporary Insanity: Playing Crazy's Not Funny
It a difficult thing, working in a mental institution. My aunt used to be... "head" psychiatrist for one part of the hospital and she said it was terrible. She was one of the few doctors that really pushed to make sure that patients brushed their teeth and took a shower every week. She set up a system where they can recycle their cans through her, and she would buy them coffee on Sunday. Simple things like that, that make them seem more human. Apparently it wasn't this way through out the whole hospital (This was a sort of end-of-the-line mental place though, not what this author is writing about).

It's tough however you work it.
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ritualtheory
01/27/09

@jejune768: Not for nothing, and I know you didn't intend it this way, but I'm sure no-one needed to 'seem' more human. They were dehumanized, but quite human.
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jejune768
01/27/09

@ritualtheory: Ah, sorry. Bad choice of words there. Thank you for understanding (and clarifying).
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ritualtheory
01/27/09

@jejune768: Anytime, absolutely.
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ritualtheory
01/27/09

In reply to Temporary Insanity: Playing Crazy's Not Funny
After six hospitalizations, including two at one of the most highly-regarded and mythologized such institutions in the States (now accepting public funds!), I would venture to say that what separates the most acceptable from the vast majority of mediocre bins is the staff-giving-a-shit factor, i.e., Are you treated as though you possess innate human dignity, or as though you're a particularly troublesome if intelligent monkey? And that doesn't even begin to touch the miasma of grimness and despair that comprises the less-than-average facilities.

At best, the hospital provides a relatively safe place to try to regroup, get stable on meds, and find a baseline position from which to transition back into your 'old' life (now freighted with awkward explanations, avoidances, &c). At best. There's a very good reason Foucault pointed up parallels between jails and mental hospitals; they're both purgatorial. And yet, we've found no better solution.

And I maintain that 'crazy' is still one of the top three acceptable comedic slurs, along with 'white trash' and 'fat.'
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Tart of Darkness
01/27/09

@ritualtheory: Well, I have to admit that my cell phone ringtone is Willie Nelson singing "Crazy".
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ritualtheory
01/27/09

@Tart of Darkness: Hm. If you're truly wackadoo, that's pretty hilarious.
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lamorevincera
01/27/09

@ritualtheory: *massive hug* Been there too, and I totally agree with what you've said. There are too damn many workers in the mental health field who just don't give a shit at all.
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Tart of Darkness
01/27/09

@ritualtheory: I am, so it is!
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ritualtheory
01/27/09

@lamorevincera: Wow, thank you. Thank you! That feels GREAT.

Hang in there. We've got to be our own advocates. {fist of solidarity}
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ritualtheory
01/27/09

@Tart of Darkness: And now it's in my head. Thank goodness it displaced Kool & the Gang.
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genericuserid
01/27/09

In reply to Temporary Insanity: Playing Crazy's Not Funny
did she never see One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest? Of course mental hospitals make you insane, as well as attempt to pick up water fountains for the purpose of throwing it out the window.
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PrettyPrettyPrincess
01/27/09

@genericuserid: exactly. Nurse Ratchet (sp?) is an archetype that lives on...
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FreakyTendencies
01/27/09

In reply to Temporary Insanity: Playing Crazy's Not Funny
I'm a psychiatric nursing student and I've become so jaded about the effectiveness of health care systems in treating people with mental illness. At the place where I did half my practicum before dropping out the nurses spent about 5 hours of their 8 hour shift on break/lunch or sitting at the nurses' station chatting. About 2 hours was spent on charting and an hour on patient care. Patient care being providing pills and telling patients what they can and can't do. I know I may have just had a bad experience but I honestly wonder if I made the right decision pursuing this for a career.
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J.D.Regent
01/27/09

@this username is edgy: please, please stay in your field!!! we need reformers so bad. Two people in my immediate family are psychiatric nurses and they do amazing work trying to fix the system. You can work for advocacy orgs, or get your MSN and teach and write and even in some states prescribe and do therapy, or work in private sector if you understandably can't stand the toxic culture at public hospitals. you are so needed. think what a difference a nurse like you could make when most patients' experiences amount to negligence.
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JamesGirlJones
01/27/09

@this username is edgy: please know that what you do means a lot--having been on the receiving end of those pill hand-outs and instructions, I can say that it's always easy to pick out who really cares about doing their job right, and that a feeling of being taken care of by someone like that goes further towards recovery than some might think.

Of course, this is from someone who has to hide in the video store whenever I see a specific nurse, for fear of alarming her with an outburst of thanks, so maybe I'm still crazy. :)
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Tart of Darkness
01/27/09

@this username is edgy: Please keep going. Remember that if all the people who actually care leave the field the only people left will be the ones who don't care.

When I was an MFT intern in an elementary school there were 8 of us. Seven of us worked our tails off to provide the best possible service we could to our clients regular and emergent. One of us had all of her clients (she took NO emergencies) fill out prepackaged worksheets.

The field needs YOU.
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Tart of Darkness
01/27/09

@JamesGirlJones: Just go up to her and say thanks. If she sees you she can't acknowledge you unless you acknowledge her. I'm sure she would love to find out you appreciate what she did for you.
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Flackette Goes Retro
01/27/09

In reply to Temporary Insanity: Playing Crazy's Not Funny
The day I'm able to let people in my office know that I take antidepressants as casually as a coworker with diabetes or high blood pressure would mention their health situation over lunch, then I'll believe we're making progress toward removing the stigma from mental health issues. 'Til then, the pills are staying buried deep in my purse and therapy will always be a "doctor's appointment".
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ritualtheory
01/27/09

@Flackette is a Red State Elitist: Indeed! I'm currently undergoing twice-weekly 'physiotherapy.' And almost thirty years ago, in sixth grade, I went to the 'allergist.' No amount of rationalizing will eradicate the shame.
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Elopingthemilieu
01/27/09

@Flackette is a Red State Elitist: THIS!
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Tart of Darkness
01/27/09

@Elopingthemilieu: love your name
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Kivrin
01/27/09

In reply to Temporary Insanity: Playing Crazy's Not Funny
I've volunteered in the psychiatric ER of a large, urban, public hospital...and the conditions are awful. I tell my fiancé, "If, heaven forbid, you ever think I need psychiatric help, please God don't take me to [hospital]." Unfortunately it's the only psych ER in the area, so the occasional "middle-class crazy person" (e.g., a college kid who calls 911 because he's contemplating suicide) winds up spending days in a room clogged with homeless mentally ill people claiming suicidal thoughts just to get off the cold street for a night. It's an incredibly sad situation all around, and I hope this lady's book brings some attention to the issue. The nation's public mental health institutions need a LOT of money before they can even start making changes.
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BillyPilgrimisnotmylover
01/27/09

@Kivrin: I've had similar conversations. It's pretty f'ing sad to me that I feel the need to exact blood oaths from my friends and family to put me or anyone they care in places that should be the best representation of my field.
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BillyPilgrimisnotmylover
01/27/09

@BillyPilgrimisnotmylover: obvious I meant NOT to put me or others there. Sorry.
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Notes from the underwhelmed
01/27/09

In reply to Temporary Insanity: Playing Crazy's Not Funny
For one thing... um, isn't the existence of DID strongly disputed? Also, I think it's important to think of the effect her surroundings had on her becoming depressed again. People who go into institutions often come out worse because they're surrounded by it the whole time. I've heard of this happening with drug rehab clinics, and also with women who suffer from anorexia (ie: they go in for help, but end up just learning new tricks). I would think that being around mentally ill people all the time, and also treated as a mentally ill person would have some effect on your mental state, particularly if you were susceptible to that to begin with.
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PrettyPrettyPrincess
01/27/09

@Notes from the underwhelmed: yes, and more yes. I graduated with a degree in psychology and around the part where we started studying clinical psych I realized, whoops, I don't think I could do this for a living. I don't have the necessary barrier between me and the rest of the world to effectively help people with their problems without being impactd myself. Detachment, that's the word. I would have driven myself nuts by internalizing their pain. It sucks, because I want to help. My skin is thicker now but still - homeless people make me cry.
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BillyPilgrimisnotmylover
01/27/09

@Notes from the underwhelmed: MPD is strongly disputed while DID kind of acts as a catchall for patients with a number of symptoms that don't fit cleanly into other diagnoses under the dissociative umbrella. Most under dispute is the cause of the disorder. Whereas the old MPD proponents and their successors tend to advocate traumatic childhood, I agree more with those who think of DID as a complex dissociative illness wherein patients pick up cues from media, surroundings, and therapists. Not consciously exactly, more like an antenna searching for a signal.
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J.D.Regent
01/27/09

@Notes from the underwhelmed: I mean fuck, three weeks in a REGULAR medical hospital will make most people start to exhibit signs of mental disturbance. They are simply not places conducive to emotional health!
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Notes from the underwhelmed
01/27/09

@BillyPilgrimisnotmylover: I just remember feeling betrayed when someone told me that Sybil was kind of a hoax.
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BillyPilgrimisnotmylover
01/27/09

@Notes from the underwhelmed: Damn that Sally Field and her lying wholesomeness!
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PrettyPrettyPrincess
01/27/09

In reply to Temporary Insanity: Playing Crazy's Not Funny
This - this is my worst fear. Going in, going crazy, maybe not making it out.

My other worst fear has to do with public bathrooms, mysterious puddles of dirty water, and falling down and getting my hair in the water.
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Tart of Darkness
01/27/09

@PrettyPrettyPrincess: Okay, look. Trust me. Everyone gets out. The very second your insurance company says they won't pay for any more hospitalization, then you are OUT.
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BluebellaElliot
01/27/09

@PrettyPrettyPrincess: Um I did this in a clap. Face planted a wet floor.

Good times.
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BluebellaElliot
01/27/09

@BluebellaElliot: *clap = club
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BillyPilgrimisnotmylover
01/27/09

In reply to Temporary Insanity: Playing Crazy's Not Funny
I don't know how to feel about the "uncover" journalism or the conclusions that the article draws from Vincent relapsing into depression. While "objective" investigations could only help shed light on what is an ignored issue in our country, I think the miserable state of institutions owes a lot to not listening to the perspectives of those who live in them and require their services. We are dismissive of patient reports because we see them as unreliable, and while that's understandable, it only perpetuates the problem.

But the future of policy about mental illness actual lies in the realm of military services. One of the most critical factors that will determine how we think of psychiatric care and mental illness in general will be determined by how we provide for veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan. Will we finally cover traumatic injuries and not stigmatize the need for holistic counseling for service members? Or will we decry the cost and turn our heads, thus adding to the burden of the already inadequate institutionalized system?
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Miss Smith Drank Your Vodka
01/27/09

@BillyPilgrimisnotmylover: Agree very much with the first paragraph of your post. The fact that she became depressed again (or it resurfaced) does not disparage her findings, opinions, etc. on the matter, IMHO. I find it more telling of the problem as a whole, in that she experience firsthand what others in the institution were feeling as well. It shows how the surroundings there can lead to heightened depression or mental health regression, and how the facilities were incapable of properly addressing her symptoms.
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YourScreenplaySucks
01/27/09

In reply to Temporary Insanity: Playing Crazy's Not Funny
Whatevs. If I learned anything from Girl, Interrupted, it's that being crazy is like going on a months-long slumber party with a bunch of fun, wacky girls who wear leather pants, go bowling, and pout charismatically. Stay away from the girl who smells like chicken, and you'll be fine.
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BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit)
01/27/09

@Your Screenplay Sucks: If there anything an Angelina Jolie movie can't teach us? Inspired by her, I picked up a random loser in the pharmacy and turned him into an uber sexy, gun toting, space-time bending spy. For fun!
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happysquid
01/27/09

@BrutallyHonestBabes: Inspired by Angelina, I tried hooking up my laptop to a payphone and hooking up with someone named "zero cool"!
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Miss Smith Drank Your Vodka
01/27/09

@Your Screenplay Sucks: I also learned the aorta is not near your jugular.
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Jack_Burton
01/27/09

@Your Screenplay Sucks: Yep, and as I learned from Brad Pitt and Bruce Willis, being bonkers is a laugh riot, a satisfying romp into a playground of the imagination.

Thank you, Jeffrey Goines.

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Tart of Darkness
01/27/09

@Your Screenplay Sucks: That was back in the good old days before managed care. Now you'd be lucky to get two weeks.
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Annabellie
01/27/09

In reply to Temporary Insanity: Playing Crazy's Not Funny
I was diagnosed with clinical depression when I was sixteen, a diagnosis which was further refined to 'dysthymia' (a type of chronic depression with very few major depressive episodes) when I was in my early twenties. I used to tell people about it to try to explain why I was the way I was, why I cried easily and slept a lot, etc.

I don't tell anyone anymore because I realized that it wasn't helping. So now I just don't say anything and let people think that I'm over-sensitive and weird. It went from something that I was really comfortable talking about to something that is really hard to address.
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PrettyPrettyPrincess
01/27/09

@Annabellie: hugs hugs hugs. I have my own little diagnosis, which I used to share, and people close to me would sympathize etc, but then later they would still wonder why I was not fixed by my meds. Or they would blame the disease if I were upset with their behavior.

I think everyone's heart should have a little 'handle with care' sticker
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Ms. Crankypants
01/27/09

@Annabellie: same here. For work I've been doing research on employer's attitudes towards mental illness and the attitudes are archaic. There's no way I'd ever disclose now. Which is sad because it adds another layer of stress and anxiety, especially when trying to "pass" while in the midst of a low cycle.
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girlhowdy
01/27/09

@Annabellie: @Annabellie: I never came across anyone else who was diagnosed with dysthymia. I also found it difficult to discuss--I've found that while people "get" major depression, they don't understand how dysthymia can rule your life. "Fortunately" for me, I also have OCD, which is much easier to discuss (and makes for much better stories).

Seriously, though, if you haven't yet tried seratonin-uptake drugs (such as Zoloft), you might want to investigate them. After a year of cognitive therapy failed to help much, my psychologist referred me to a psychiatrist, and within weeks of starting the meds I felt better and get the most of cognitive therapy.
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Annabellie
01/27/09

@PrettyPrettyPrincess: A handle with care sticker would definitely be an asset sometimes :)

@Ms. Crankypants: I hate the whole "trying to pass" thing as well - on the one hand, you feel proud of yourself for making other people believe that you're normal, no matter how hard or stressful it was for you, but on the other hand it's so sad that you have to do it. That, and it's so exhausting that you end up bursting into tears on the way from work because of the stress of keeping up that facade all day.
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Annabellie
01/27/09

@girlhowdy: I've never met anyone else who was diagnosed with dysthymia either! I totally agree that it's a difficult thing to try to explain to people.

I have tried SSRIs, but haven't had much success with them. In my experience, they make me gain weight, kill any sexual feelings I might have and make me feel sleepy and fuzzy-headed all day long. But maybe I just haven't found the right ones yet...
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hello.kitty
01/27/09

@Annabellie: Have you tried the more recent SNRIs like Cymbalta or Pristiq? Side effects are milder. Also remember that you need to give yourself a long adjustments period, not just the one month that's stated in the info sheet.

How about supplements?
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Annabellie
01/27/09

@hello.kitty: I haven't tried anything in the last few years. The types that I did try I was on for minimum six months, and when I was on Prozac it was for four years.

I've never tried any supplements. Do you mean herbal-type things? Is there anything you'd recommend?
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kelsium
01/27/09

In reply to Temporary Insanity: Playing Crazy's Not Funny
Not to throw this into the ring apropos of nothing but, as this is Jezebel, it has to be asked: would her experience be taken more seriously if she were a man?
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kelsium
01/27/09

@kelsium: Of course, it is obviously apropos of everything. Depression for men, in my opinion, seems to have always been considered a necessary evil or a symptom of a creative disposition. Whereas for women it conjurs up terms like "hysteria," etc.
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Slumdog_Mamabear
01/27/09

@kelsium: That is actually a really interesting question. I don't know that it would have been taken any more or less seriously but I am sure the experience would have been completely different.

As women we are expected to always bring a little bit of the crazy. We are considered to be more emotional creatures and as such our emotions are often invalidated.
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J.D.Regent
01/27/09

@kelsium: I'm not sure. At my local public hospital men are definitely over represented.
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Ms. Crankypants
01/27/09

@J.D.Regent: Men seem to get stuck with stereotypes of violence and psychosis. It seems like men go into the forensic system while women are hospitalized under civil commitments. The rates of African - American men diagnosed with schizophrenia indicate that there are lots of stereotypes and racial bias occurring. So I think the response would be different but no less depressing.
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J.D.Regent
01/27/09

@Ms. Crankypants: yeah that sounds right.
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Tart of Darkness
01/27/09

@kelsium: Fewer men seek psychiatric care at the level women do. By that I mean that women are more likely to seek care with fewer, shorter term symptoms. The ward I was in was mixed sex and running about 50-50 men/women. Two of the women there were brought in because of violent behavior. One of the men was brought in because he was in meth psychosis. They were working to stabilize him a bit until they got a bed in the drug unit.
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margareita metermaid
01/27/09

In reply to Temporary Insanity: Playing Crazy's Not Funny
Humor is such a catch-22. one the one hand, it is an excellent coping mechanism (for many). On the other, it can be the utmost in offensive. i wonder why it is people (myself included--i've been offended by all sorts of jokes i felt were inappropriate) allow other people to grieve or be angry by whatever they want, but don't apply the same rules to humor? it IS just another emotion...
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