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Woman Confronts Husband's Mistresses: Modern Closure, Or Old-School Drama?
Elle Writer's Ex: "It's A Strange Luxury To See Someone Else's Version Of Your Life"

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battleaxonista...is a humorless bitch
06/25/09

In reply to Woman Confronts Husband's Mistresses: Modern Closure, Or Old-School Drama?
I would think if you were truly in love with someone it would hinder your ability to magnanimously hate their guts just as much as the random woman he screwed around with. Yes, in the ideal world she should have gone and shat on his grave or something, but that doesn't make his mistresses any less...whorish.

*yes, people may disagree that the other woman in such a relationship is a whore, I am simply stating my person opinion*
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HarpMadness
06/25/09

In reply to Woman Confronts Husband's Mistresses: Modern Closure, Or Old-School Drama?
I think the "other woman" is generally blamed because so much of society can't get past the "boys will be boys"/ men can't help themselves/men need to be virile meme (for lack of a better term). The women are the temptresses who lured the poor married man into the affair. It's just so ingrained that I think it's really easy to fall back into that thinking even unconsciously.
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velvet.fistfull of love
06/25/09

@HarpMadness: In turn the woman who is cheated on is also blame for her role in not being able to retain the interest of her partner. We never win.
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oh.geez.
06/25/09

@HarpMadness: I'd like to call that the No Behavioral Standards For Men Rule. It seems that the bar of expectation is so low (or not there at all), that they get a damn parade just for doing what any decent person should do in any given situation.
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Samanthrax
06/25/09

@oh.geez.: I know that rule well, and it blows chunks.
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HarpMadness
06/25/09

@velvet.fistfull of love: So true. Always the woman's fault, no matter what role in the drama she is playing.

@oh.geez.: And that is brilliant!
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VirginiaDentata
06/25/09

In reply to Woman Confronts Husband's Mistresses: Modern Closure, Or Old-School Drama?
I think the best analogy in these sorts of situations is this: Helping someone cheat is like buying goods you know, without a doubt, are stolen from a home. Sure, YOU didn't break into the house/make vows of fidelity, YOU weren't the one who made the homeowners/spouses feel unsafe and vulnerable in their own home/marriage, and YOU are not the thief/cheater.

But you are damn sure a partner in the crime. And you still suck, and are a cause for the suffering of another human. So, FUCK YOU, thieves and cheaters, and slightly smaller fuck you to the enablers.
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elephantshoes
06/25/09

In reply to Woman Confronts Husband's Mistresses: Modern Closure, Or Old-School Drama?
I wouldn't go so far as to label this "girl on girl" anything. It seems more like a story about confronting demons and moving on. Plus, the man or woman in the middle (5 women in this case) will benefit from seeing who they harm first hand, as the author did. And in the end she had peace. I think it's a best seller because cheating is very common. Most of us know someone who's been in one of the three positions.
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broad
06/25/09

@elephantshoes: The situation itself isn't "girl-on-girl," but the way the reporter wrote the story was really kind of twee. And I must say, seeing that the reporter is a woman, I'm a little disappointed.
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cicillionaire
06/25/09

In reply to Woman Confronts Husband's Mistresses: Modern Closure, Or Old-School Drama?
OK, being mad at your best friend and confronting her I can buy. But women who she didn't know or only had a mild aquaintance with? No. Her husband was the one married one! And apparently she knew he was an a-hole right from the beginning. If you suspect that the person you're making your vows to isn't going to hold up their end of the bargain, then they probably won't. And anyone who cheats with you will cheat ON you. You can't help who you fall in love with and you can't get angry with them when they do what you already know they're going to do. Solidarity is sweet but its just another way to shift blame.
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broad
06/25/09

@cicillionaire: Ok, I get what you're saying and while I don't necessarily disagree, when two people get married, there's an implied mandate that they are to remain faithful to each other. So saying the person who gets cheated on can't be mad isn't fair.
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lilbobbytables
06/25/09

In reply to Woman Confronts Husband's Mistresses: Modern Closure, Or Old-School Drama?
I suppose that, if I were in her position, I would be pissed at the dead husband, and would not contact the other women. Granted, that path really offers no closure, but what closure can the mistresses give? Knowing what happened between them would not make me feel better, and being angry at them seems pointless.

Granted, I probably would not join any of his mistresses' fan clubs, but the husband was the one who owed Ms. Metz fidelity, and he was the one who had (presumably) long term affairs with multiple partners.

Of course, it is very easy for me to say what I might do from the relative safety of my perch in my office chair removed from any personal entanglements. If I were in this situation, who is to say what I would actually do?
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PreposterousHypothesis
06/25/09

@lilbobbytables is a la-di-da feminist: These were my thoughts too. I don't really see the point, and I personally think "closure" is a crock. I've never really felt it unless I decide for myself that a situation is closed. Usually it just gives me more questions when I intend to seek it. I think "closure" is sort of used as "excuse to find out all the dirt and possibly create more drama" many times.

I've never been cheated on, that I know of, but I've had a boyfriend get another girlfriend suspisciously quickly after dating me (and they were friends while we were dating). I never had one bit of desire to talk with her, ever.
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librariesare4lovers
06/25/09

In reply to Woman Confronts Husband's Mistresses: Modern Closure, Or Old-School Drama?
Bottom line(IMO)-If two people decide to enter into an affair despite the fact that they are both aware that one or both of them are in a committed relationship they are both wrong. One of them is not more to blame than the other.
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LaComtesse
06/25/09

In reply to Woman Confronts Husband's Mistresses: Modern Closure, Or Old-School Drama?
"But what's interesting is, even when the husband is very much on the scene, this is how the thinking often goes: the Other Woman gets blamed."

It goes the same way when girls cheat on boys. It's far easier to be mad at someone who has no sentimental value to you than to be mad at someone you love(d) and trust(ed).
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HarpMadness
06/25/09

@LaComtesse: That's a good point. It's easier to blame this person that is (usually) a complete stranger, because there are so many fewer consequences to that. I've never thought of that, but I think you could very well be right that this does play a major part in it.
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seejanerun
06/25/09

In reply to Woman Confronts Husband's Mistresses: Modern Closure, Or Old-School Drama?
"What did you think you were doing, getting involved with a married man with a kid? You weren't really thinking about me, were you? How would you feel if some woman did this to you?"

Ok, I've been the other woman a couple of times. So from my perspective the answer is: No. They were not thinking about you, they didn't care about you. Also, they didn't betray you (well the friend did, but that's another story) your Husband did. Strangers do not promise to be faithful, one guy did, and he failed. Direct your anger accordingly.
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Bgirl_Hamster
06/25/09

@seejanerun: I agree that the bulk of the anger should be directed at the cheating spouse. But does the innocent partner get no right to be angry at the "other woman" or "other man"? If someone hurts me, I think I would be justified to harbor some animosity towards that person, regardless of privity of contract.
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morninggloria
06/25/09

In reply to Woman Confronts Husband's Mistresses: Modern Closure, Or Old-School Drama?
Luckily, future scorned women can refrain from confrontation and stick to endless facebook stalking of her dead husband's mistresses. Sometimes, the wives will notice that new pictures have been posted of the mistresses, and the mistresses will look like they've been letting themselves go. The wives will also make fun of the mistresses' musical tastes and choice of quotes.
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kkatt
06/25/09

In reply to Woman Confronts Husband's Mistresses: Modern Closure, Or Old-School Drama?
You can't blame the other woman entirely, it does take two to tango. However, if women just stopped sleeping with men they knew were involved with someone else, the cheating wouldn't happen. I think there should be a sort of female solidarity.
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Samanthrax
06/25/09

@kkatt: NO. If the men stopped sleeping with someone else, the cheating wouldn't happen. The same goes for women, but the burden does not fall on women alone.

These comments in here are so judgemental and infuriating. Jesus christ, I don't know WHY I expected more.
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Cerridwen
06/25/09

@kkatt: Or, alternatively, those married men could keep it in their pants.
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spunkay
06/25/09

@kkatt: if women just stopped sleeping with men they knew were involved with someone else, the cheating wouldn't happen

O RLY?

Or, people could remain faithful to their SO's. It's not a stranger's responsibility to keep someone from cheating on their SO.
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velvet.fistfull of love
06/25/09

@Samanthrax is Sarcastic: I think the reason is because the betrayal of being cheated on is so painful and is something that is inflicted upon a person that people react so strongly. For instance, my mother was cheated on and subsequently left by my father for a 23yr old coworker. While she never contacted the young woman she did obsessively check phone records (family plan) and the Myspace and Facebook accounts of this person as some sort of self-torture. She was deeply depressed for months and I moved home because I feared for her. So while I place the blame solely on my father I have little sympathy for the person he cheated with.

I also think that people judge women who are cheated as being too stupid to see the writing on the wall or having somehow brought this upon themselves through their own actions or by being in a relationship with someone who would cheat on them. It goes both ways.
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LaFemme
06/25/09

@spunkay doesn't have a middle name: It is not their responsibility, but it is a more decent thing to do. A major reason I would not want to do anything with a married man or man with a girlfriend would be because I can put myself in their shoes and think about how terrible I would feel if the guy cheated, and I would not want to play any part in it,as I think it is just a shitty way to be. Karma and all.
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Samanthrax
06/25/09

@velvet.fistfull of love: Yeah, I can understand that. I've been cheated on, and honestly- I have yet to cheat. I've been the "stupid woman" who thinks that the guy will be different this time around. And yeah, it sucks- but that doesn't mean every situation is the same, and that every situation is deserving of your harsh judgements. It's a shithead move to cheat, and it's a shithead move to knowingly be a cheatee, but the women always seem to get the shit end of the stick, even if they were the one cheated on. It is absurd.
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cocktail bun
06/25/09

In reply to Woman Confronts Husband's Mistresses: Modern Closure, Or Old-School Drama?
"Danny DeVito in Batman Returns"??? He couldn't have even bothered to come up with a better movie? LA Confidential? Get Shorty?
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mfnher
06/25/09

@cocktail bun: I think it had more to do with the specific proportions of the Penguin.
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Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.
06/25/09

In reply to Woman Confronts Husband's Mistresses: Modern Closure, Or Old-School Drama?
My best friend is my husbands ex-girlfriend. He cheated on her with me when they were together and I'm sure he cheated on me a bit in the beginning with her. I'm not proud of it, but we were all very young. She and I apologized and got over it and now she is my very best and dearest friend in the whole world.

I don't actually know what the moral of this story is. Maybe, own up to your mistakes and be open minded? Yeah, that's it.
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Abra
06/25/09

@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: Do you think your friendship would be the same if only one of you had been the other woman?
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Rare Affinity
06/25/09

In reply to Woman Confronts Husband's Mistresses: Modern Closure, Or Old-School Drama?
I have no sympathy for Metz. She committed adultery when she was younger and warning bells should have gone off when her oaf of a husband first chose to ask her out in front of his then girlfriend. Why would you expect people to treat you any better than you have treated them in the past?
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Samanthrax
06/25/09

@Rare Affinity: Actions of your past do not excuse the actions of those around you.
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nessalicious
06/25/09

In reply to Woman Confronts Husband's Mistresses: Modern Closure, Or Old-School Drama?
Thgh hv nvr chtd n my wn byfrnds, hv hlpd thr ppl's byfrnds cht n thr grlfrnds nd nc wf, mltpl tms. Hnstly, dn't fl glty bt t n th slghtst.

hv n ntntn f brkng p thr rltnshp, fllng n lv wth thm, r vn sstnng rltnshp n th lng trm (mst f th tm). Mst f ths mn r mmtr nd ntrstwrthy nd whl thy r gd fr shg, nd myb lrk bt twn, thy r nt gd fr rltnshp, ths s vdnt. rsnt t vry mch whn m pntd s sm knd f fmm ftl nd sn s th bd prsn whn th chtr s th n wh hs gn t f thr wy t l nd mnplt nthr prsn's hppnss. qlly fnd t srrl tht th chtng byfrnd s frqntly frgvn fr th trnsgrssn whl m tntd FRVVVR. s f h fll nd pt hs pns n my vgn whl ws th n wh trppd hm!
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CollegeCamel
06/25/09

@nessalicious: If you weren't aware of the various relationship statuses of these men, then I agree, the man is totally at fault and you have no reason to feel guilty. However, if you entered into these arrangements knowing full well that there was someone else involved who's feeling would DEFINITELY get hurt by your actions, then you and the men share EQUAL blame and should all be ashamed of your actions.
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Uncommon Whore
06/25/09

@nessalicious: Prepare yourself for a long thread.
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nessalicious
06/25/09

@CollegeCamel: I wasn't always aware of their relationship situation no, and often they've been deceptive saying they've split up, that their wife isn't that involved anymore, and so yeah maybe I was naive in getting involved in their saga, but honestly it's not my concern. How do I know the other person will definitely be hurt when I don't even know who they are? I certainly haven't been hurt every time a boyfriend has cheated on me, sometimes I've been grateful to have it pointed out to me more clearly what a douchebag he is.

@CharlotteTrampling: I hope when you're faced with the prospect of your partner or you cheating you're met with such kindness.
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Rare Affinity
06/25/09

@nessalicious: I am puzzled as to why you would even feel the need to continually HELP men cheat on their girlfriends, espeically with men you denigrate as being immature and untrustworthy? You compound the mystery by claiming you have never ever cheated on your boyfriends? Why on earth not? What is so special about them that they should be spared the pain of a partner's infidelity? As for your being tainted forever, what nonsense. Some people might well avoid you since it seems you have a deep jealousy of other women in relationships and arrogantly take it upon yourself to prove that the men in question are not capable of being faithful. You don't come across as a bad person in my opinion, just someone who is rather confused.
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LaComtesse
06/25/09

@nessalicious: I won't even get into the ethical issues here, but on a practical level you are playing with fire--people can get violent when they feel wronged and, as we see here, their anger may not be aimed in the most logical direction...
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EvilVaginaTroll
06/25/09

@nessalicious: regardless of the old (useless, stupid and tired) argument "he broke his vows, i did not take any", I think it says quite a lot about a person´s sense of self-worth and morals to willingly assume the role of "something on the side"...
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Penny
06/25/09

@LaComtesse: What you said.

I think things can get really sticky when you become blasé around other people's feelings. I'm not going to jump on the judgment train, I've cheated and been cheated on. Indeed, no one is perfect. But, I feel there's a difference between accepting ones actions and writing something like this off as "he would have done it anyhow." If that's what you need to make yourself feel better about it, knock yourself out. I personally don't think it's necessary.
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AnotherStory
06/25/09

@CollegeCamel: Well, except for the part where the dudes broke a commitment to someone else, while nessalicious didn't break a commitment to anyone.

This isn't something that I personally would do - it doesn't appeal - but I've never understood the "equal blame" thing, at all. My boyfriend is responsible for his fidelity to me. Other women are not.
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Penny
06/25/09

@AnotherStory: I don't think it's "equal blame" as much as it is taking responsibility for your actions. When I do something assy and selfish, I own up to it. And, I just really have a hard time with people who brazenly act out in a way they know will hurt other people. I just can't get behind that. If you, say, develop a relationship with a man and he's married and you struggle with whether or not you should do it, that's another story (at least for me). But the whole "I don't give a shit, he's the boyfriend/husband" just doesn't sit well with me.
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VirginiaDentata
06/25/09

@nessalicious: Interesting that you "don't feel guilty in the slightest." You conspired with someone to do something that you knew would at the very least hurt someone else, probably pretty deeply, and you're OK with that?

I do not condone some sort of ridiculous sisterhood solidarity. But it would be nice if people had some sort of code of conduct, across gender lines, to not be assholes. You know, Golden Rule and all that. Do no harm, whatever.
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mayfly
06/25/09

@nessalicious: I've never been the "other woman," and I don't think I ever will be. I can kind of see your point, though. If the guy is the type to cheat (i.e. most likely a jerk), on some level it doesn't really matter whether you refuse to have an affair with him- he'll still be the kind of asshole who cheats (or wants to). I don't know, I guess I see it more as enabling the dude's bad behavior. It's not a great thing to do, but in the end he's the one who is responsible for it.
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PreposterousHypothesis
06/25/09

@nessalicious: The difference is in knowing. If you didn't know about the men's intentions (to cheat), then you're an innocent bystander. If you know of their situation, you're an accomplice. What they are doing is despicable, but being the one to enable them to do such a hurtful thing is problematic. Consider yourself the weapon by which they hurt their partner...I really don't want to be overly judgy, but when you hear about girl-on-girl crime, this is part of it.
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egg cream
06/25/09

@EvilVaginaTroll: Hey now. Not everyone wants to be in a monogamous relationship. There's nothing inherently better about monogamy or commitment. I mean, I could just as easily state that it says quite a lot about a person's sense of self-worth and morals to willingly put themselves in a situation where they need to compromise or get another person's approval regarding where they'll be on Saturday night, how to spend their money, when and what they'll have for dinner, etc.

You can pretend that being "something on the side" is unfulfilling, unpleasant experience if it makes you feel better and morally superior -- but the fact is, to some people, it's absolutely the kind of relationship they want.

(However, I think that if that's the kind of relationship someone is going to have, all the people involved should be informed about it. It's the lying that makes cheating wrong, not the lack of commitment.)
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Ms. Ville Valo
06/25/09

@nessalicious: I hope you experience cheating so you know what it feels like. I don't think you would be as forgiving or as unfeeling if it happened to you. This is a little bit sociopathic. No wonder the world is the way it is. No one gives a fuck about anybody else.
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Penny
06/25/09

@Ms. Ville Valo: She has been cheated on.
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Penny
06/25/09

@egg cream: Yes yes yes on that last bit.
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morninggloria
06/25/09

@nessalicious: Hey, I have a joke.

What's the name of the president of this thread?

BARACK HUSSEIN O DRAMA!
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colormeroutine
06/25/09

@mayfly: there is no single "type who cheats" on either side of the gender line: There are the chronic cheaters who go looking for it, there are people who cave in to enough temptation, there are people who do it to hurt their partners, there are people who do it once and never again, people who have long term-mistresses, one night stands....any dozen other things. They "well theyre the type to cheat" excuse doesn't necessarily fly
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femputer
06/25/09

@morninggloria: hehe. Well played, lighten-upper-er.
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save jinger
06/25/09

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