Ugh, this just infuriates me. I hate that smart people from other countries come here to escape some kind of opporession, and then find their degrees and proof of knowledge don't apply here.
I also hate when people complain about having to pay people more for jobs like this. Really? You don't think they deserve a decent pay for caring for your children all day???
I hate that jobs like caring for children or cleaning are considered "low" and aren't paid well. Those are some physically and mentally demanding jobs that not many people care to do and deserve our respect and the people doing them deserve to be paid well.
Aside from the obvious labor and class issues it brings up, what this article demonstrates to me is that people whose lives revolve around proving their worth to one another through having all the right 'stuff', be it the latest stroller or dog breed or nanny ethnicity, will always find a new way to set themselves apart. Because that's what proving your value through possessions is all about - mutually-acknowledged exclusivity.
And don't even get me started on the racist assumptions inherent in hiring a nanny from a specific ethnicity because of their supposed ethnic skill set.
Wanting a spanish speaking nanny wouldn't be just a trendy thing to do in California or Texas. Being able to speak Spanish would be very useful in these states and additionally, hiring any nanny that can teach your child a second language (be it Spanish, Mandarin, French, or whatever) is a great thing.
In these tough times I have worked as a personal assistant/cleaning lady. It ain't easy. I didn't get paid very much but it was under the table and the people I worked for paid me daily.
@HappyLand: we had an au pair when i was little. my dad was in the navy and my mom went to school. my dad had also been in a bad accident and wasn't mobile enough to look after a four year old and a two year old. the au pair was a friend of a friend of the family in denmark and wanted to live in the US for a while.
we difineately weren't rich but being in the military meant my mom was away from any help she could have gotten from her family. this was the best option for them. the au pair didn't raise me. she was like a baby sitter or an older sister, since she lived with us.
@HappyLand: There are as many reasons to hire nannies as they are people who hire nannies. Some reasons are good, some reasons are bad. Some parents who employ nannies are deeply involved in raising their children, some are not. Some do it from choice, some do it from necessity.
My family had a nanny that worked for my family for 27 years before she died of lung cancer. I consider her presence in my life one of the greatest gifts my mother ever gave me. My mother was also a deeply loving, involved mother. But, she and my father owned and ran a huge restaurant and the hours were long. They had the financial ability to hire a nanny. I am so very glad they did, because it worked for us as a family and in the end was the best thing for all of us.
Each family and situation is different. People have been paying other people to assist them in raising their children for thousands of years. It is not bizarre. It can be bad, but it can also be great for everyone involved.
I don't understand why this post touched a huge nerve. I think its a fairly straight forward post about how a group of wealthy women (and their husbands) continue to fetishize (to a degree) and take advantage of various ethnic groups when it comes to child care. No one was "dissing" all people who have ever employed nannies or whatever. It wasn't personally directed. YES, obviously everyone who employs a nanny or sitter doesn't treat them badly. But we weren't talking about those people. It was never about EVERYONE, it was about this seeming trend that msnbc was apparently reporting on earlier. I feel kinda weird even writing this because it feels so lecture-y and I don't want to be like that but I just can't believe the amount of vitriol this has generated.
I think a fundamental issue that makes many of us uncomfortable (including me) can be analyzed from a feminist lens: Who does "women's work?" Who takes care of the kids, cleans the floors, does the dishes, washes the clothes? These tasks have to get done somehow. Among the class of people in the United States who employ domestic workers--whether to care for children, do housekeeping, take care of elderly parents, or other domestic tasks, this laborer is making it possible for the employers to pursue their jobs/career outside of the home. But at the end of the day, SOMEBODY has to do these things. And particularly in places like NYC, this dynamic makes people feel uncomfortable--hiring someone to do the things no one else wants to do. The historical nature of who does this work, and how the people who do this work have been considered expendable, and even the knowledge that some people consider hiring a domestic worker an indulgent luxury--this gives people an icky feeling and makes them defensive and want to explain how great they treat their domestic worker (which granted some do!)
Also--guess who some of the WORST employers of domestic workers are?? Diplomats. No joke--and they get away with it with their diplomatic immunity.
@kavitabk: While diplomats do have immunity, it behooves them to follow all local laws in regards to hiring domestic employees so their embassy doesn't have to have meetings with the host government about the atrocious way they treat their domestic help. I think a lot of how often this is followed depends on the local hiring practices and what the diplomats are accustomed to. I know in the country I live in having a gig with an American diplomat is viewed as the best it gets since they usually a) pay better than locals b) aren't home often c) didn't grow up with a fleet of maids and nannies catering to their every whim and so are less demanding than locals.
@kavitabk: I would like to +1 this comment because it is thoughtful, and add that I think it's very indicative that we don't value women's work when women don't get paid to do it, and we don't value "women's work" when women do get paid to do it.
Ideally, we would value this work, instead of acting like there's some option besides food being prepared, children being cared for, et cetera.
wtfox?! promoted this comment
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@LaFemme: I don't know what country you are in, and while I don't doubt that the perks of working for a diplomat can be wonderful, this is a documented pattern that has occurred across nations and for decades. Often host governments turn a blind eye or don't really take accusations seriously, if a worker is able to even go to authorities. It's a culture of impunity that many diplomats and their families buy into: [www.aclu.org]
@msdisc: Yes, I am sure there are diplomats employers who treat their domestic workers splendidly, but my point was that these are not isolated cases, but a pattern of taking advantage of the most vulnerable among us by people who don't have to answer for their wrongs (and I support diplomatic immunity in a broad sense; I don't want our diplomats to be thrown in jail for some bs reason because another country's leader is pissed off at our government).
@kavitabk: Yes, I have seen that. I think a big part of why this is is not just having diplomatic status, but that those diplomats may also bring their attitudes towards domestic help with them when they move to their new countries. (Like this is citing foreign diplomats in the States). Without going into specific cultures to try to avoid steretyping, I will say that overall people who are diplomats from countries where there is a huge divide between the upper and lower classes seem to be particularly terrible towards their domestic help and I can see them not adapting to new laws and norms if they can get away with it. I haven't really noticed any American/Canadian/German/British diplomats who go overseas and go wild with abusing their help, though I suppose it could happen. I know my maid in Brazil had her finger on the pulse for embassy jobs and she and some of the other maids would discuss who they had/would work for and they had a list of countries that were seen as generally dream jobs and another list where they wouldn't step foot in the homes because they had such poor track records.
@LaFemme: Yeah, I've heard this too but I don't think it's that western countries have less polarized class struggles or that their diplomats are just better people or have a superior culture--it's that certain countries' governments have a demonstrated pattern of not addressing and/or not caring when these abuses are brought to their attention, so diplomats from these countries have an added incentive to do whatever the hell they want. And from a cursory search of cases that have been brought to the public in some way, Germany and Australia are on the shortlist, although there are distinct patterns from certain regions/countries.
@kavitabk: The argument that SOMEONE has too do this work is one of my responses when people say that the workers in these jobs should get a better job if they don't like it or if they want more money. Okay, if they get another job, who is going to fill that job? Someone needs to do it and better to pay people well and treat them well and have them do the job and stay with it.
I've told this story before: this summer I went to pick up my kids at tennis camp. I'm Mexican, married to a white guy, and my kids don't look like "typical" Mexicans. This little boy, around 5, comes and asks "are you their nanny?", and I say, "no, I am their Mom". He says "no, you don't look like their Mom, you must be their nanny".
He has a Hispanic nanny.
I guess I should be glad that in the future people won't think I am a nanny since they will be Tibetan, but I still will be confused with gardeners or maids or cooks. :-(
@Little Green Frog (Wise Latina): "I've told this story before: this summer I went to pick up my kids at TENNIS CAMP. " LOL, I think "tennis camp" says it all! If you were picking up your kids at the Y day camp, the kid would have been more used to seeing all types of people (and NOT CONTRADICTING HIS ELDERS!!!!!) Please don't think I'm making light your experience and your feelings - I just don't want you to feel bad over what some ill-mannered brat told you.
I don't begrudge anyone for having a nanny, or an au pair, or a fleet of babysitters, whatever. I do find it interesting, however, that all of the people who are quick to defend "nanny culture" have 1) nannied themselves, it sounds like, usually, while in college or 2) hired nannies. There is nothing good or bad about this, but I do think it's unfair to jump on others for their opinions because they don't have kids when those with personal experience, however anecdotal, would be wrong to ignore their own bias on the matter. Again, I don't have really strong opinions on this, aside from the fact that nannies are not accessories, but I do think it's important to note. I hate it when conversations devolve to the Mommies v. the Non Mommies.
@Penny: Wait so hiring a nanny or being a nanny means you should watch yourself and your obvious biases? That really makes no sense to me. Personal experience doesn't equal fact, but no personal experiences isn't likely to make someone an expert.
@clevernamehere: oy. I think what she was trying to say was that people who hired/had nannies might want to recognize that they are looking at this from a certain perspective. It's hard to take a step back from that and be objective. Its not an insult.
@Penny: ::raises hand:: add me as a "raised by nanny" supporter of nanny culture done right.
Clearly there are women whose rights are being trampled over right and left and NYC in particular seems like a hellhole for domestic workers. This is of huge concern and I am glad that Jez pays such close attention to this issue. But those of us who have positive experience with nanny culture just want to get our voices heard that hiring a nanny or being a nanny or having a nanny can be a wonderful, amazingly positive thing for the parties involved and that the entire enterprise should not be dismissed.
Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with people. Like, don't people have any sort of conscience???? Those assholes who don't pay their nannies would never stand to have their paychecks withheld like that. I mean, I know people are assholes, but I just can't even FATHOM asking an employee to stay late to clean up after my party without (a) arranging it beforehand and (b) paying for the extra hours worked.
What? Whose parents let them nanny other kids at night at 11? At 11, my parents wouldn't have left me watching my own brother late at night, much less someone else's. Who lets a 14 or 15 year old watch their kids overnight? This comes from someone whose primary source of independent income in high school was babysitting and driving other kids to school. When I was 13, 14, 15... parents were home by midnight (partially because my mom insisted on it). LaToya, I am sure that you were preternaturally responsible, but that strikes me as odd as the rest of the topics in the post.
Or, maybe it is another point in the caregivers get shafted column, that because of her job Isabel could neither watch her own children nor afford child care that included adult supervision.
@krispitina: More than once I watched kids until 11 or 12 while their parents were out (I cleaned up on New Years Eve too). I don't consider that a big deal. But I was never asked to drive a child and personally, I wouldn't trust anyone in high school to drive kids. Too many accidents at that age. Sitting in a house with sleeping kids is no biggie in comparission.
@krispitina: My mom used to leave me with my cousin, who at the time was probably 14-15, over night when she wanted to go out every once in awhile. I was in elementary school, so probably around 7 or 8. My mom was a single mom, though. I didn't really mind. I mean, I never really thought of it as being "babysat", I thought my older cousin was pretty cool because she said "ass".
@krispitina: Oh, that's an easy answer. We all knew each other and lived in the same neighborhood. My mom was fine with me being at Isabel's house because it was literally down the hill from my own. If I needed to come home or she needed to see me, she knew I was probably with the kids at their place.
And considering what some of my other friends were starting to get into, for my mom this was the best possible thing that could have happened - I got paid, I could take my younger sister with me to work, and everyone was accounted for after school.
But yes, it is another point - $100 a week was a huge sum to me, but about 20 hours of work each week, it works out to about $5 an hour. But, from what I can recall, she gave me a significant chunk of her salary.
This situation reminds me of the hiring policies of the Pullman Porters. Porters were men hired to work on railroad sleeping cars, caring for the passengers.
The Pullman company hired African American men for this job in stead of white men because Mr Pullman felt that passengers would feel threatened by the idea of other white people (their peers) seeing them undressed etc. On the other hand, the passengers wouldn't view Black men as peers, and therefore wouldn't feel self- conscious being seen by them when they were unwashed first thing in the morning.
Maybe people like to hire nannies of a different race because they don't feel as judged by them, because in some way having a brown women overhear your fight with your husband doesn't count.
@bluebears: I wonder how many schools have had to cut that. I know it was big at my elementary school when I was there, and I went to a school where the vast majority of both parents in families worked, but that was... um, twenty years ago?
@wtfox?!: hee. yeah I went and it was back in the 80s. I don't think its as big anymore which is too bad. I think its better for kids to be in a communal atmosphere rather than having their own manservant.
@bluebears: I was in it for a while, until my parents decided I was old enough to be home by myself, and I was seriously relieved. But I was a pretty solitary kid, and school by itself overstimulated me, so I was catatonic by the time we got out for the day.
On the other hand, my sisters (who were a lot more gregarious than I was) loved hanging out with their friends for a couple extra hours until my mom or dad could come get us.
Maybe it's the emphasis now on having actual structured time after school? Kids today seem not to hang out and play they did when I was their age *crotchety noises* They always have some kind of practice or after-school activity that means they can't stay there.
@wtfox?!: good point about kids being so much more "scheduled." Yeah I went until probably 4th grade? And then I was old enough to just come home by myself. Sometimes I hated latchkey but I do think it almost made me tough in a way, which sounds weird but it was much more, you're on your own entertain yourselves. We had no tv, all we had was the playground and one classroom with art supplies. I remember being outside for like 2 hours every day until it got dark in the middle of winter. But I loved it in a weird way too.
eta: I love how old and crotchety I sound. We didn't have none of the 'lectronics!
@bluebears: Ha, that sounds like us! We all went down to the cafeteria, and we had study hall/art-type things and recess. During the summer we stayed inside mostly, because it was Florida and the afternoon storms came like clockwork. I usually took a book outside or something, although sometimes we had kickball or dodgeball or some kind of team sport to play instead.
Then afterward we had to walk home in the driving snow, uphill.
I had a (white, American born older lady) nanny and I nannied when I was a teenager, but I am sometimes amazed by the dynamics of some of these situations. My mother truly became friends with our nanny- she lived with his while she was divorcing her husband years after she stopped working for us and they have lunch whenever she is in town.
But at the same time, my cousin's (Carribean) nanny has told me some horror stories. She thinks "some of these white ladies are scared of their children" and I think she may be right.
Random nanny story: I nannied for two girls, aged 5 and 7, while in college (shortly before going to work the pole - less demeaning). One threw a cat out the third floor window. The other threw a fit cause I wouldn't let her ride her tricycle indoords, and got so angry that, when her mom came home, she first demanded that her mom fire me and then, when her mom questioned what was going on, the child went over to the very expensive piano and started throwing stuff at it, screaming, pounding on the keys, etc.
Her mom said, "I appreciate that you are expressing your anger artistically."
@likepenguins: Oh man, I quit a job serving because I thought it was the most degrading thing ever. I can imagine this would be as well. That is my major issue with baby-sitting. Not that the children might be terrors, but you never know what kind of parent you'll get.
Additionally, I have said many times that stripping would likely be less degrading than my last job as a server. Made me laugh that someone else thinks the same way. May have to look into this a little more seriously.
Holy shit. The woman I used to sit for in NYC replaced me with a Tibetan nanny, whom she had been "chasing" for months (competing with other moms). I assumed that she really wanted this particular nanny due to her skills and that the addition of the word "Tibetan" to our conversation was an unfortunate but otherwise harmless descriptor.
This was about six years ago, so I'm sure she's sitting at home, reading this article and going "Oh I was SO ahead of the curve!"
09/22/09
I also hate when people complain about having to pay people more for jobs like this. Really? You don't think they deserve a decent pay for caring for your children all day???
I hate that jobs like caring for children or cleaning are considered "low" and aren't paid well. Those are some physically and mentally demanding jobs that not many people care to do and deserve our respect and the people doing them deserve to be paid well.
09/22/09
And don't even get me started on the racist assumptions inherent in hiring a nanny from a specific ethnicity because of their supposed ethnic skill set.
09/22/09
In these tough times I have worked as a personal assistant/cleaning lady. It ain't easy. I didn't get paid very much but it was under the table and the people I worked for paid me daily.
09/21/09
09/22/09
we difineately weren't rich but being in the military meant my mom was away from any help she could have gotten from her family. this was the best option for them. the au pair didn't raise me. she was like a baby sitter or an older sister, since she lived with us.
09/22/09
My family had a nanny that worked for my family for 27 years before she died of lung cancer. I consider her presence in my life one of the greatest gifts my mother ever gave me. My mother was also a deeply loving, involved mother. But, she and my father owned and ran a huge restaurant and the hours were long. They had the financial ability to hire a nanny. I am so very glad they did, because it worked for us as a family and in the end was the best thing for all of us.
Each family and situation is different. People have been paying other people to assist them in raising their children for thousands of years. It is not bizarre. It can be bad, but it can also be great for everyone involved.
09/21/09
09/21/09
Also--guess who some of the WORST employers of domestic workers are?? Diplomats. No joke--and they get away with it with their diplomatic immunity.
09/21/09
09/21/09
Ideally, we would value this work, instead of acting like there's some option besides food being prepared, children being cared for, et cetera.
09/21/09
09/21/09
Knowing my father, he never let that title get to his head. Only his children, friends and wife know his former status. Meh.
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09/21/09
He has a Hispanic nanny.
I guess I should be glad that in the future people won't think I am a nanny since they will be Tibetan, but I still will be confused with gardeners or maids or cooks. :-(
09/22/09
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09/22/09
Clearly there are women whose rights are being trampled over right and left and NYC in particular seems like a hellhole for domestic workers. This is of huge concern and I am glad that Jez pays such close attention to this issue. But those of us who have positive experience with nanny culture just want to get our voices heard that hiring a nanny or being a nanny or having a nanny can be a wonderful, amazingly positive thing for the parties involved and that the entire enterprise should not be dismissed.
09/21/09
09/21/09
Or, maybe it is another point in the caregivers get shafted column, that because of her job Isabel could neither watch her own children nor afford child care that included adult supervision.
09/21/09
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And considering what some of my other friends were starting to get into, for my mom this was the best possible thing that could have happened - I got paid, I could take my younger sister with me to work, and everyone was accounted for after school.
But yes, it is another point - $100 a week was a huge sum to me, but about 20 hours of work each week, it works out to about $5 an hour. But, from what I can recall, she gave me a significant chunk of her salary.
09/21/09
The Pullman company hired African American men for this job in stead of white men because Mr Pullman felt that passengers would feel threatened by the idea of other white people (their peers) seeing them undressed etc. On the other hand, the passengers wouldn't view Black men as peers, and therefore wouldn't feel self- conscious being seen by them when they were unwashed first thing in the morning.
Maybe people like to hire nannies of a different race because they don't feel as judged by them, because in some way having a brown women overhear your fight with your husband doesn't count.
09/21/09
09/21/09
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09/21/09
On the other hand, my sisters (who were a lot more gregarious than I was) loved hanging out with their friends for a couple extra hours until my mom or dad could come get us.
Maybe it's the emphasis now on having actual structured time after school? Kids today seem not to hang out and play they did when I was their age *crotchety noises* They always have some kind of practice or after-school activity that means they can't stay there.
09/21/09
eta: I love how old and crotchety I sound. We didn't have none of the 'lectronics!
09/21/09
Then afterward we had to walk home in the driving snow, uphill.
09/21/09
09/21/09
But at the same time, my cousin's (Carribean) nanny has told me some horror stories. She thinks "some of these white ladies are scared of their children" and I think she may be right.
09/21/09
Her mom said, "I appreciate that you are expressing your anger artistically."
That's when I quit.
09/21/09
Additionally, I have said many times that stripping would likely be less degrading than my last job as a server. Made me laugh that someone else thinks the same way. May have to look into this a little more seriously.
09/21/09
This was about six years ago, so I'm sure she's sitting at home, reading this article and going "Oh I was SO ahead of the curve!"