I'm late to the game, Kate, but still want to say that you're 57 different varieties of wonderful. Thank you for yet another nuanced and sophisticated post.
I had a miscarriage about six weeks into a pregnancy I was planning to terminate. I didn't feel relieved. I had nightmares for a year afterwards. I'm not for a second suggesting that people SHOULD feel that way about their own miscarriages, or that there is a right way to feel, I'm just saying that needing or wanting an abortion doesn't necessarily mean that you aren't emotionally affected by the pregnancy, or that you don't grieve your miscarriage/abortion. Of course I'm sure that most people are aware of that but I just thought I'd put it out there because it wasn't really covered in the post.
To me, the uproar is really about two things - how society perceives women as a whole, and how Penelope is doing what she's always done, which is to speak bluntly, question things, share her opinion candidly, and draw attention to herself as a personal branding strategy.
A lot of the arguments seem to be around the idea that some things are best left private - which is great, if you believe that. That's why we all have the choice to keep things to ourselves or to share. Personally, I'm a very private person. But the reality is that we live in a world where people perpetually overshare and it's considered normal, so 1) it's not really fair to call Ms. Trunk out on it when everyone's doing it, and 2) it's not going away just like that.
Penelope Trunk's entire professional reputation is that of a person who commands her own career, takes risks, is bold and promotes herself. I don't really get the "shock" around hearing her talk about her miscarriage - she has made nearly everything else about her life public, and she's done it in such a way that it benefits her. She's built a name for herself as someone who knows about blogging, social media and networking. It's reasonable to assume that if something happens to her personally, she's going to share her experience. And as a result, she's gotten a lot of publicity. Which may or may not be why she wrote what she did - I'm guessing not - but it benefits her either way.
Her recent blog entries also talk about her own experiences with Asperger Syndrome and how she deals with it at work. Here's another topic that has carried a stigma in years past - people who live with Autism Spectrum Disorders have been misunderstood throughout history. Only through opening the dialogue has society begun to understand those people better.
How can we condemn her for speaking out about one thing but not another when it all contributes to creating a greater awareness in the world of people's unique experiences?
@rixatrix: Maybe it's the medium and not so much the message? Twitter is usually a forum for more frivolous stuff. Maybe something ike this would have created less hoo-ha on a blog post?
And she has Asberger's? That could account for a public reaction that might seem cold or indifferent or glib to others.
I'm surprised no one has jumped down her throat for choosing to have three abortions. Where are the abortion-as-bc police? Or am I just blissfully ignoring them?
i dont agree with Trunk on all levels - I don't think I need to tell my boss I am getting an abortion to take a day or 2 off. That is what "personal days" are for. My health matters are my private matters. But I do applaud her for having the balls to tell the truth and not have any shame in that. I think more women should be vocal about that fact that every abortion or miscarriage is not a traumatic event.
@greengrey, it's not just about her though is it? Pregnancy inherently involved two people and I'm so disappointed that not one person has yet mentioned the fact that perhaps the father would rather not have learned Trunk was expelling their foetus while twittering. Whether he knew or not, the fact that the whole thing has been made so public by Trunk demonstrates a regard for the father of her child as casual as her attitude to birth control. Imagine if you had slept with her in the past six weeks or so and then suddenly her tweet appears on CN fucking N?
Is it feminist to be so self-involved and individualistic, that in her single-minded pursuit to exercise her admittedly perfect right to autonomy over her own body and experiences, a woman neglects to give a shit about other people's feelings, ie. the unsuspecting father of her never-to-be-born child?
I guess caring about and having respect for other people's feelings only applies when a girl calls another girl fat?
@ekh333000001002003: First of all, she didn't put her tweet on CNN. Someone else did that. which is ridiculous, because it was in no way newsworth
Second of all, you don't know the father of the child, and thus have no way of knowing if he was ok with her twittering about it, if he gave a shit that she was pregnant in the first place, or if he knew. I don't see how this is relevant.
If his feelings differed from hers, he's welcome to tweet them to his heart's content.
Hey Kathleen, get a load of this: Women even have varied feelings about their children! I had two planned, much-wanted pregnancies. I love both my kids, but one of them was a horrendous baby who screamed for 18 hours a day and slept in 15-minutes increments for eight months. And there were days when I wished I had had an abortion. Yeah, I said it! Not all kids are alike, and neither are all pregnancies.
@morninggloria: No way. Everyone's uterus is my business. And they better feel the same way about their uterus and anything in it that I do.
I'm offended when people aren't the same as me.
@lilbobbytables is a la-di-da feminist: Because I wish that people cared more about what's going on in my panties. Exciting things, everyone! Exciting things.
Why do people get SO. OFFENDED. by other people's feelings?
Her tweet was about HER. Not anyone else. People who make other people's thoughts all about them are distasteful.
Everyone is entitled to their own feelings and no one should censor their feelings because someone else might have different feelings.
FEELINGS! :P
@greengrey: See, I'm just probably over-sensitive, because I AM one of those people. I try not to impose my M.O. on others, but I do try to think of other's feelings, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Just as there's nothing "wrong" about not giving a shit about other people's feelings. I might not want to hang out with you, or like you, but it's your gig. You know?
@greengrey: You are dead on about the "feeling police." WTF?!! Not only did she have the wrong feeling, but she disclosed it instead of keeping it hidden. God! When did people learn that we're entitled to stay ignorant of other people's lives, feelings, experiences?
@Penny: I agree that there's nothing wrong with trying to respect other people's feelings, but I think there's something wrong with people who expect people with minority views (such as joy over a miscarriage) to just shut up because they might offend someone.
@greengrey: Right, I would never suggest that people should be censored in that way. I'm just more of a "time and place" person, I suppose.
And, the issue of "feelings" is interesting, because I believe there are a number of feelings/personal views (one only needs to reference some of Tracie's past posts) expressed on this site that have been met with extreme hostility.
@greengrey: BUT TWITTER IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PUBLISHING PLATFORM OF OUR TIME. If you tweet it, it becomes a fundamental truth enshrined in all human consciences. True story.
I am reluctant to even think about diving into this shit again. All I will say is this, I don't want to hear about someone's board room hemorrhoids. And I don't want to hear about someone's board room miscarriage. If people want to spin it into some kind of feminist musing, that's their business. I choose not to. But, if you want to assert that a miscarriage is like any other medical problem, I certainly don't have a problem saying that I'd rather not hear about it. I don't want to hear about someone's pink eye, puss-filled butt zit or athlete's foot. I don't care.
Firstly, good for Trunk for talking about this so matter-of-factly. Frankly, I know people who felt this relieved and unemotional about their own abortions but they didn't stand up in front of a crowded room to talk about it, let alone go on national television to be interviewed by some sanctimonious, self-professed 'Catholic'.
Secondly, there's nothing about her tone and body language that is either teenage or bratty. Yes, she's slightly hostile but she's been put into a position where a slight air of hostility is actually warranted. If she'd acted coy or flirtatious, or - god forbid - humbled by that pompous ass, she would have looked like a silly bit of fluff who doesn't have the courage to stand by her actions.
Thirdly, I don't have Aspergers Syndrome so I don't claim to be an expert but using that to explain Trunk's attitude smacks to me of the myth that people with ASDs don't feel emotions 'properly'. Yes, perhaps having an ASD helps Trunk to retain her cool under fire in some way, but I feel like her reason for not caring about her miscarriage and who knew about it was that she JUST DIDN'T CARE. Again, I can't be sure, as I never had it medically checked but I feel that I had a miscarriage a year or so ago and I really don't give a shit. If anything I'm really super pleased. And me - or Trunk, or anyone, male, female, transgender, intersex, or otherwise - saying that does not in any way take away from the serious pain that unwanted miscarriages cause.
Finally, and most importantly: despite what I said above, I really didn't know much about miscarriages before watching that clip. I didn't know how long they can last (I just thought I was having an inordinately long period), I didn't know that they weren't invariably agonizing (except perhaps in the first month or so), and I have certainly never witnessed anyone discuss them on national news before, despite the fact that so many women experience miscarriage at least once in their lives (whether it's 25 or 75 percent, it's still a lot of women). It's not just men like Sanchez that are getting an education about this kind of thing, it's women like me, who think of themselves as educated and informed feminists. If me and my ilk don't know then clearly we DO need to talk about this kind of thing publicly.
It really makes my day to see a woman who is unashamed of wanting and actively seeking out an abortion. Women should not have to feel shamed for something which is not shameful. I love how she is not the sad, regretful abortion- seeking woman we normally see in the media. She shows that yes, there are some women who want an abortion and are unapologetic in wanting it. Good for you, Penelope.
I love this. I love that she was so honest, and was not flustered when that asshole was clearly trying to get her to have an emotional reaction--do you have no shame? really? how does that even approach an acceptable question?
I had never heard of her before; now I am a huge fan.
10/07/09
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10/07/09
A lot of the arguments seem to be around the idea that some things are best left private - which is great, if you believe that. That's why we all have the choice to keep things to ourselves or to share. Personally, I'm a very private person. But the reality is that we live in a world where people perpetually overshare and it's considered normal, so 1) it's not really fair to call Ms. Trunk out on it when everyone's doing it, and 2) it's not going away just like that.
Penelope Trunk's entire professional reputation is that of a person who commands her own career, takes risks, is bold and promotes herself. I don't really get the "shock" around hearing her talk about her miscarriage - she has made nearly everything else about her life public, and she's done it in such a way that it benefits her. She's built a name for herself as someone who knows about blogging, social media and networking. It's reasonable to assume that if something happens to her personally, she's going to share her experience. And as a result, she's gotten a lot of publicity. Which may or may not be why she wrote what she did - I'm guessing not - but it benefits her either way.
Her recent blog entries also talk about her own experiences with Asperger Syndrome and how she deals with it at work. Here's another topic that has carried a stigma in years past - people who live with Autism Spectrum Disorders have been misunderstood throughout history. Only through opening the dialogue has society begun to understand those people better.
How can we condemn her for speaking out about one thing but not another when it all contributes to creating a greater awareness in the world of people's unique experiences?
10/07/09
And she has Asberger's? That could account for a public reaction that might seem cold or indifferent or glib to others.
10/07/09
10/07/09
10/07/09
Is it feminist to be so self-involved and individualistic, that in her single-minded pursuit to exercise her admittedly perfect right to autonomy over her own body and experiences, a woman neglects to give a shit about other people's feelings, ie. the unsuspecting father of her never-to-be-born child?
I guess caring about and having respect for other people's feelings only applies when a girl calls another girl fat?
10/07/09
Second of all, you don't know the father of the child, and thus have no way of knowing if he was ok with her twittering about it, if he gave a shit that she was pregnant in the first place, or if he knew. I don't see how this is relevant.
If his feelings differed from hers, he's welcome to tweet them to his heart's content.
10/07/09
10/07/09
10/07/09
10/07/09
10/07/09
OOOOOHH!
10/07/09
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10/07/09
I'm offended when people aren't the same as me.
10/07/09
10/07/09
You're horrible.
10/07/09
(Okay, letting it die now...)
10/07/09
10/07/09
10/07/09
10/07/09
Her tweet was about HER. Not anyone else. People who make other people's thoughts all about them are distasteful.
Everyone is entitled to their own feelings and no one should censor their feelings because someone else might have different feelings.
FEELINGS! :P
10/07/09
10/07/09
10/07/09
10/07/09
And, the issue of "feelings" is interesting, because I believe there are a number of feelings/personal views (one only needs to reference some of Tracie's past posts) expressed on this site that have been met with extreme hostility.
You can't have it both ways, people.
10/07/09
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10/07/09
10/07/09
10/07/09
P.S. Hearted for including Rich/Tracie.
10/07/09
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10/07/09
In the end, though, I think I just hate Twitter.
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10/07/09
10/03/09
Secondly, there's nothing about her tone and body language that is either teenage or bratty. Yes, she's slightly hostile but she's been put into a position where a slight air of hostility is actually warranted. If she'd acted coy or flirtatious, or - god forbid - humbled by that pompous ass, she would have looked like a silly bit of fluff who doesn't have the courage to stand by her actions.
Thirdly, I don't have Aspergers Syndrome so I don't claim to be an expert but using that to explain Trunk's attitude smacks to me of the myth that people with ASDs don't feel emotions 'properly'. Yes, perhaps having an ASD helps Trunk to retain her cool under fire in some way, but I feel like her reason for not caring about her miscarriage and who knew about it was that she JUST DIDN'T CARE. Again, I can't be sure, as I never had it medically checked but I feel that I had a miscarriage a year or so ago and I really don't give a shit. If anything I'm really super pleased. And me - or Trunk, or anyone, male, female, transgender, intersex, or otherwise - saying that does not in any way take away from the serious pain that unwanted miscarriages cause.
Finally, and most importantly: despite what I said above, I really didn't know much about miscarriages before watching that clip. I didn't know how long they can last (I just thought I was having an inordinately long period), I didn't know that they weren't invariably agonizing (except perhaps in the first month or so), and I have certainly never witnessed anyone discuss them on national news before, despite the fact that so many women experience miscarriage at least once in their lives (whether it's 25 or 75 percent, it's still a lot of women). It's not just men like Sanchez that are getting an education about this kind of thing, it's women like me, who think of themselves as educated and informed feminists. If me and my ilk don't know then clearly we DO need to talk about this kind of thing publicly.
10/01/09
10/01/09
I had never heard of her before; now I am a huge fan.