I think what she was doing was seeking protection from men, but it went the other way, she was often beaten up, abused and she simply used herself up,"
Yeah, the men had nothing to do with that. Damn sexual freedom for making my sister beat herself up.
@J.D.Regent: On the one hand, we're uptight boner-killers who need to be more "sex positive", on the other, we're forcing women to have so much sex we end up all messed up.
One personality disorder ... er "trait" that many ultra-conservatives have is that they tend to be able to hold two opposing and contradictory thoughts in their head at the same time without cognitive dissidence. Go figure.
@shevralay: I guess it's good for her sake, then, that he waited until after her death to be so offensively dismissive of both her personal experiences and those of women in general
@whats_in_a_name: In context, this can pretty clearly be read as "It would've taken the Taliban to protect her." Which is one of the most common wordings around.
I agree that there's a definite possibility the end result might be problematic, but I wouldn't be able to tell it from this article. It's just a snip job that doesn't really say anything conclusive about the book.
Hell, the quote you're taking so uncharitably is trying to make precisely the point that it wasn't the 'fault' of the sexual revolution or the feminists that she ended up as she did, and that a simple 'return' to some unrealistic-yet-imagined "earlier, better time" wouldn't have saved her.
To the extent that we know anything from this article, it sounds pretty clear that he's making a book about how people fared in the sexual revolution, for good and for ill, *without* blaming the sexual revolution itself or claiming that society should have collectively 'done something else'.
What, exactly, is novel or controversial about the idea that with more freedom often comes new and different pressures, for better or for worse? Isn't this the basic idea behind schools that institute school uniforms?
I think a lot hinges on the book's portrayal of men -- whether or not their bad behavior is put under the microscope, subjected to real analysis.
If anyone deserves not to have pointlessly snarky conclusions jumped to, it's Martin Amis.
I'm an Amis fan. I put off reading the Guardian article until just now - mostly because I had little faith in the Guardian's ability to deal with Amis objectively given their general distaste for him but also because I didn't want to have to defend Amis for another poorly thought-out declaration. I was pleasantly surprised on both counts. For the most part.
I've read most of his stuff and I'd be quite surprised if he didn't put his men under the microscope. I don't think he protects any of his characters and certainly not his male characters - they are unreliable, violent and desperate in London Fields ; unreliable, violent and untrustworthy in Other People; inhumane, violent and delusional in Time's Arrow. He is just in the treatment of his characters and I look forward to his commentary on the sexual revolution. Though, really, he's commented on it all along and what I really look forward to is a synthesis of this commentary.
And anyway, this isn't the first time he's written about his sister. There's a little Sally Amis in all of his female characters.
The beauty in this picture is somewhat overwhelming. My god, she is beautiful. And it is more than superficial. I am amazed that we can make ourselves so ugly over trivial things. But she is raw...no make up, no enhancements of any kind. And she is more striking than most of the women I see walking down Melrose with an arsenal of plastic surgeons on a Monday afternoon. Strength is the key to beauty IMHO.
This pic will be my desktop and personal inspiration for awhile. #pakistan
@kiwibelle: I don't think I would go so far to say that the terrorism is our fault, because while we did fuck up the Middle East, the terrorists are the ones who chose their methods.
The US has its faults, but what I'm reading from that caption is that Pakistanis are upset that our pursuance of the terrorists (in a possibly misguided attempt to fix our mistakes of the past) pissed them off and they reacted violently.
I think my main issue is that the protest signs call for the downfall of the US. How about "Down with Terrorists" instead? #punjabuniversity
@kiwibelle: Well, but you know why the Taliban is in Pakistan, right? Because their government has provided them safe haven along the Afghan border. Then when the shit hit the fan and it came to their attention that "Hey, they're kind of mean and don't like us either!" they "allowed" us to at least cross borders to find Taliban outposts.
In turn, terrorists did what they do, they terrorize innocent victims, and now everyone says "OMG, if the US had just stayed out of our country, this never would've happened."
Hence my "lay down with dogs, get up with fleas" comment below. #punjabuniversity
@lollapulizer: They want the U.S. to go down because they hate this country. We have everything and they have nothing.
If it makes you feel any better, I'm pretty sure any one of those folks would jump at a chance to come to the U.S. and become a citizen but while they're in Pakistan they pretty much are going to hate our guts.
So i'm not sure of what to think about "terrorists". I mean it must take something pretty hard core to turn a person so cold. I've never thought of these faceless "terrorists" as thrill killers. I hope I don't sound like I think of what they're doing as a good thing because I don't. But "blame the terrorists" seems to be a throw away argument as 1. everyone keeps saying that and 2. it isn't going to make the terrorists go away.
In nations of wealth and stability this type of thought process isn't normal. That's why we don't understand them. We have a good life in this country and have no idea what really goes on in this world beyond CNN/Fox/MSN. Putting in money to help build the country and help the people would be better then military aide and would help us in not having the Pakistani people hate us so much. They don't see anything except 1. more people are dying 2. the attacks have increased since the U.S. began their wars in the middle east and 3. their country is more in shambles then ever 4. the money the U.S. is providing isn't doing them any good but is putting their government into western debt and pocket.
@lollapulizer: The distinction between terrorists and people trying to get rid of terrorists is pretty academic when the one blows up your police station and the other bombs your wedding party. #punjabuniversity
@kiwibelle: wow, i really have to take issue with the first two paragraphs of your post.
'we have everything and they have nothing'? really? how about hundreds of years of culture? how about a rich and colorful history? does that count as 'nothing' because its not the same as what we have?
also, do you REALLY think 'any of those folks would jump at a chance to come to the U.S'? really? I'm not sure where you're getting this from, but the fact is, as citizens of the commonwealth Pakistanis were, in fact, allowed to migrate to the UK up until the 70's and millions (most) of them chose NOT to. Yes, it is not the 70's now, and the UK is not the U.S, but really, unless you have ANY facts to back up your (in my opinion ridiculous) statement, what you're saying is purely conjecture and should not be stated as fact.
Furthermore, Pakistani's, as a people, do not hate America or Americans. Yes, there are many that do - just as there are many AMERICANS/Britons/Australians etc that hate American and Americans.
In addition, you have missed out two key points (you really should read up more on this issue if you are interested enough it in it to comment) 1. We (the U.S Govt) paid the Pakistani govt millions of $ during the Cold War to house/arm/train the Taliban in secret. WE put these people there. They do not belong to the same ethnic groups as those native to the NWFP. WE put them there.
2. Most articles point out that the protests against America stem from the Taliban stance against Pakistan based on the Pakistani governments support of U.S policy. I would imagine, then (and many articles make this point, such as a couple posted on the huffington post) that these educated and liberal women are protesting OUR role in what has made THEIR country a hotbed of violence.
I'm not saying I agree with the sentiment of 'down with U.S.A, obviously. What I'm saying is that I strongly disagree with your statement/assumption/whatever it is, that they 'have nothing' and they 'see nothing'. These people do not live in caves. #punjabuniversity
@rd2uk: Why are you being so smart and wonky? This is the post-Megan Jezebel, where we talk about about how much Hillary kicks ass when she lobbies for more troops in Afghanistan, and where we analyze health care with rap videos. We don't parse issues here anymore, lame-o! Don't be such a DOWNER!
@BearDownCBears: where do i find these healthcare rap videos? clearly with all this actually reading and checking up on facts iv missed out on the good stuff! #punjabuniversity
@rd2uk: My intention was not to put down Pakistani's or Pakistan but to point out the issue is complex and that the life style in this country prohibits us from understanding the situation in other countries. American's do lead a charmed life in the world. And the reason I say this is because we are the biggest consumer as a nation in the world.
I was not referring to culture as I do not think that is measurable.
Your item number 2 is basically what I was trying to say. As far as the immigration statement I made, it was a generalization, I will admit that but I still stick by it. I personally think most people in the world (especially those in third world countries) want to be here it probably stems from the fact that my family are immigrants to this country.
The day I say I know everything is the day I become a fool. My opinions are not fact. You have a good day. =)
@labeled: I don't think it's just that though. I also think they're upset that their politicians are lining their pocket with U.S. government money and becoming puppets for the west.
From what I understand, corruption is rampant in the country and the U.S actually hasn't been able to track dollars given to Pakistan. #punjabuniversity
The more I see this as I scroll down the Jez main page, the more it pisses me off. Listen, we're not the problem here, people, no matter how much you want to make us the problem.
There's an old adage about lying down with dogs and getting up with fleas. I don't see that beautifully illustrated on snazzy little signs.
But it's our fault. Natch. What do I know about the Taliban and terrorism and whatnot. #punjabuniversity
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
Parents who use contrarian sexist banalities have children who use contrarian sexist banalities.
11/20/09
Yeah, the men had nothing to do with that. Damn sexual freedom for making my sister beat herself up.
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
One personality disorder ... er "trait" that many ultra-conservatives have is that they tend to be able to hold two opposing and contradictory thoughts in their head at the same time without cognitive dissidence. Go figure.
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
Am I just misunderstanding that sentence, or did he just refer to his sister as "It"?
11/20/09
11/20/09
I agree that there's a definite possibility the end result might be problematic, but I wouldn't be able to tell it from this article. It's just a snip job that doesn't really say anything conclusive about the book.
Hell, the quote you're taking so uncharitably is trying to make precisely the point that it wasn't the 'fault' of the sexual revolution or the feminists that she ended up as she did, and that a simple 'return' to some unrealistic-yet-imagined "earlier, better time" wouldn't have saved her.
To the extent that we know anything from this article, it sounds pretty clear that he's making a book about how people fared in the sexual revolution, for good and for ill, *without* blaming the sexual revolution itself or claiming that society should have collectively 'done something else'.
What, exactly, is novel or controversial about the idea that with more freedom often comes new and different pressures, for better or for worse? Isn't this the basic idea behind schools that institute school uniforms?
I think a lot hinges on the book's portrayal of men -- whether or not their bad behavior is put under the microscope, subjected to real analysis.
If anyone deserves not to have pointlessly snarky conclusions jumped to, it's Martin Amis.
11/21/09
I'm an Amis fan. I put off reading the Guardian article until just now - mostly because I had little faith in the Guardian's ability to deal with Amis objectively given their general distaste for him but also because I didn't want to have to defend Amis for another poorly thought-out declaration. I was pleasantly surprised on both counts. For the most part.
I've read most of his stuff and I'd be quite surprised if he didn't put his men under the microscope. I don't think he protects any of his characters and certainly not his male characters - they are unreliable, violent and desperate in London Fields ; unreliable, violent and untrustworthy in Other People; inhumane, violent and delusional in Time's Arrow. He is just in the treatment of his characters and I look forward to his commentary on the sexual revolution. Though, really, he's commented on it all along and what I really look forward to is a synthesis of this commentary.
And anyway, this isn't the first time he's written about his sister. There's a little Sally Amis in all of his female characters.
.
10/26/09
This pic will be my desktop and personal inspiration for awhile. #pakistan
10/26/09
10/22/09
10/20/09
While there are probably plenty of reasons for Pakistanis to be upset with the US, I really feel like the anger is misdirected here.
10/20/09
We have all the money and power in the world, we stir sh*t up and rarely pay for our actions.
I mostly love this country but we're f*ck up in many ways. #punjabuniversity
10/20/09
The US has its faults, but what I'm reading from that caption is that Pakistanis are upset that our pursuance of the terrorists (in a possibly misguided attempt to fix our mistakes of the past) pissed them off and they reacted violently.
I think my main issue is that the protest signs call for the downfall of the US. How about "Down with Terrorists" instead? #punjabuniversity
10/20/09
[www.salon.com] #punjabuniversity
10/20/09
In turn, terrorists did what they do, they terrorize innocent victims, and now everyone says "OMG, if the US had just stayed out of our country, this never would've happened."
Hence my "lay down with dogs, get up with fleas" comment below. #punjabuniversity
10/20/09
If it makes you feel any better, I'm pretty sure any one of those folks would jump at a chance to come to the U.S. and become a citizen but while they're in Pakistan they pretty much are going to hate our guts.
So i'm not sure of what to think about "terrorists". I mean it must take something pretty hard core to turn a person so cold. I've never thought of these faceless "terrorists" as thrill killers. I hope I don't sound like I think of what they're doing as a good thing because I don't. But "blame the terrorists" seems to be a throw away argument as 1. everyone keeps saying that and 2. it isn't going to make the terrorists go away.
In nations of wealth and stability this type of thought process isn't normal. That's why we don't understand them. We have a good life in this country and have no idea what really goes on in this world beyond CNN/Fox/MSN. Putting in money to help build the country and help the people would be better then military aide and would help us in not having the Pakistani people hate us so much. They don't see anything except 1. more people are dying 2. the attacks have increased since the U.S. began their wars in the middle east and 3. their country is more in shambles then ever 4. the money the U.S. is providing isn't doing them any good but is putting their government into western debt and pocket.
10/20/09
10/20/09
'we have everything and they have nothing'? really? how about hundreds of years of culture? how about a rich and colorful history? does that count as 'nothing' because its not the same as what we have?
also, do you REALLY think 'any of those folks would jump at a chance to come to the U.S'? really? I'm not sure where you're getting this from, but the fact is, as citizens of the commonwealth Pakistanis were, in fact, allowed to migrate to the UK up until the 70's and millions (most) of them chose NOT to. Yes, it is not the 70's now, and the UK is not the U.S, but really, unless you have ANY facts to back up your (in my opinion ridiculous) statement, what you're saying is purely conjecture and should not be stated as fact.
Furthermore, Pakistani's, as a people, do not hate America or Americans. Yes, there are many that do - just as there are many AMERICANS/Britons/Australians etc that hate American and Americans.
In addition, you have missed out two key points (you really should read up more on this issue if you are interested enough it in it to comment) 1. We (the U.S Govt) paid the Pakistani govt millions of $ during the Cold War to house/arm/train the Taliban in secret. WE put these people there. They do not belong to the same ethnic groups as those native to the NWFP. WE put them there.
2. Most articles point out that the protests against America stem from the Taliban stance against Pakistan based on the Pakistani governments support of U.S policy. I would imagine, then (and many articles make this point, such as a couple posted on the huffington post) that these educated and liberal women are protesting OUR role in what has made THEIR country a hotbed of violence.
I'm not saying I agree with the sentiment of 'down with U.S.A, obviously. What I'm saying is that I strongly disagree with your statement/assumption/whatever it is, that they 'have nothing' and they 'see nothing'. These people do not live in caves. #punjabuniversity
10/20/09
(I feel ya) #punjabuniversity
10/20/09
10/20/09
10/21/09
I was not referring to culture as I do not think that is measurable.
Your item number 2 is basically what I was trying to say. As far as the immigration statement I made, it was a generalization, I will admit that but I still stick by it. I personally think most people in the world (especially those in third world countries) want to be here it probably stems from the fact that my family are immigrants to this country.
The day I say I know everything is the day I become a fool. My opinions are not fact. You have a good day. =)
10/21/09
From what I understand, corruption is rampant in the country and the U.S actually hasn't been able to track dollars given to Pakistan. #punjabuniversity
10/20/09
There's an old adage about lying down with dogs and getting up with fleas. I don't see that beautifully illustrated on snazzy little signs.
But it's our fault. Natch. What do I know about the Taliban and terrorism and whatnot. #punjabuniversity