@ElleL: I think the same amount of damage is done no matter what conclusion one attempts to jump to... Fact is, he's dead, she isn't. Leave the speculation to her defense attorney.
@ElleL: Honestly, that was my first assumption as well, but we don't have any real details yet. I'm biased against needy boyfriends, the press is biased against "loose" women, and none of us are qualified to judge this case.
The British press' evidence to her potential guilt confuses me. If I was a judge presented with the case I would be totally baffled as to what was put in front of me and how it applied.
"She enjoys acoustic guitar and party dressing."
"One: I don't care about her musical ability, Two: 'party dressing' isn't really a definable activity, Three: if we're basing guilt off hobbies then my hobby of digging holes and putting living plants in them is surely going to earn me a class C felony sometime soon."
@Snowbunny: It's become more common for journalists to trawl through the MySpace, Facebook and Bebo profiles of females who are murdered, commit suicide or are accused of murder. They don't seem to bother as much with males.
When Meredith Kercher was murdered, the Daily Fail printed what her friends had written on her wall. I found that rather intrusive and distasteful.
@Skinny lips, killer lashes: That is quite despicable. She was the victim, yet the whole world needed to know her friend missed her at the "krazy kegger" last night? Very trashy. I really hope I don't get murdered.
@Skinny lips, killer lashes: My bestest friend in the whole wide world has passwords to my social networking sites and has explicit instructions to delete pretty much everything the second anything happens to me.
She also has a list of "acceptable" photos that the press can run just in cases. No drunk photos of me dancing on a bar, por favors. If they want to yank a pic of me from my Facebook, she knows the 3 that are acceptable not to delete.
It is sad that we have to have this convo, but c'mon... it's terrible for the press to use the info the way they do.
@Le Kangourou de Kataroo: You're reminding me of Steve and Jeff from Coupling being "porn buddies," which I always thought was brilliant. These kind of arrangements should go hand-in-hand with living wills and other sensible preparations, as far as I'm concerned. Seriously.
@hortense: How many A-levels you earn are a factor in which university you can attend, particularly if you're on the bubble. I think they're emphasising her A-levels to indicate that she's a nice, middle-class woman, not some sort of "chav".
Yes, it's unfortunate that she did not conform to the typical gender role of the young female--endlessly attached and clingy. Therefore, of course she's guilty, because she was a frigid bitch that didn't turn her online profile into a shrine for her boyfriend.
@hortense: Because not living FOR your boyfriend at 18 y/o is independence and independence is one step away from feminism and, as we all know, feminism is one step away from murder most foul.
@ElsaSthenelus: Oh, so she's the victim here.
Here I thought it was the police investigating the romantic partners who always have an air of suspicion around them, especially if the couple got into an argument prior to the murder.
Now I know that it is the the patriarchy at work again trying to keep independent women down.
@ElsaSthenelus: @those assuming a criminal investigation just must be about the patriarchy trying to keep a poor girl down: Oh, it's so funny that a young man was killed. He must have deserved, right? I mean, she's a woman, she must have been a victim of patriarchy. Come on, people! Compare this to the other domestic murder that's in the news, and the coverage is night and day. In both cases, lives were lost. In one, it's assumed the victim was totally helpless. In the other, it's assumed the victim deserved it, because he's a man. It's sickening. In one, we feel sorry for the alleged murderer because she obviously was driven to it; in the other, we cheer the suicide of an alleged murderer. Have we lost the ability, as a society, to see the trees for the forest? Have we all lost our ability to see individuals in the face of trying to sound all 4th wave feministy and edumacated? What happen to real feminism - the basic idea that women (and by extension, men) are human beings deserving of rights and responsibilities, and the basic ideas of education, which is to be able to learn how to think critically rather than just jump to conclusions?
@andBegorrah: and remember, she's not a woman, she's a "blonde", also a "teen". "Teen Blonde Death Angel" probs. This will spark many op-eds about "rise in teenage girl violence" and "rise in teenage girl binge drinking"...
in eastern europe this kind of chauvinism is the norm. beating your wife isn't even looked down upon..in fact people say: 'idk why she cheated on him---he was good to her, never even beat her!'
I wrote about this article in a couple of threads, so I may the tipster, but who can tell! At any rate, thank you Hortense, for throwing it up there.
And I also want to thank you all for talking about your own experiences this week.
When I was a rape crisis counselor, I learned just how powerful it is when people start to tell their stories, for the teller, as well as for those listening. Jezebel is a much, much larger community, there are many more listeners, than we begin to know. I'm certain that these stories have had an enormous impact on many, many people, men and women. Please know that these conversations have likely saved some lives.
As a teenage girl, I was being hit enough at home. Dog help the boy that tried to hurt me that way. I can't ever imagine thinking it would be okay, or a badge of honor, even!
My grandfather and grandmother have been married for 50 years and he's never laid a finger on her or even called her a nasty name. If he doesn't do it in 50 years, then no one else has an excuse to do so.
I wonder if anybody has considered that so many teen girls 'blame' Rihanna or want to believe she did something wrong because of another factor - competitiveness between women. We are so brainwashed by society to compete with other women for everything (especially men), and teenagers are so impressionable, that it doesn't surprise me that these young girls would feel resentment towards Rihanna. After all, in todays society it does not take much for a woman to turn on another woman. It's kind of like a 'how DARE she' attitude. Rihanna is successful, attractive, youthful and wealthy, and that provokes jealousy.
Just look at Britney Spears and how eager so many young women were to tear her down at the first sign of trouble in her life. I can't tell you how many comments I saw/read where women speculated that she was a terrible parent/psycho/alcoholic/drug addict and nothing but praises were given to Kevin Federline. The moment a successful woman shows a chink in her armor, we do all we can to finish tearing her down.
In a lot of ways I don't think you can even blame these girls for feeling this way. It's ingrained into us from birth, survival of the fittest. Most teenage girls are probably not even aware that they think this way. In a lot of ways women are far more evil to each other than a man could ever be to us.
@kaiwhakamarie: I think you may have a really good point. I've always heard the saying that women don't dress for men; they dress for other women. Go to any function and watch the dynamics between the women - it's totally different than the one between men.
Hey, on behalf of all of Chicago, I'd like to apologize for all of the crazypants stuff that's been blowing out of the Windy City lately. It's been a pretty bad winter, and we've been pretty cocky since Barack Obama got elected president.
Life long resident here, I think Chicago will always produce the crazy. In good and bad times we will always have Mayor Daley, the janky public school system, and the CTA to bring the disappointment and lulz.
A younger friend of mine said this same thing (she's 15). She said that Rihanna deserved it b/c she gave Chris Brown herpes and was caught kissing Kanye West. After I asked her for photographic evience of the kissing and 2 reliable sources that say Rihanna gave Chris berpes, she shut the fuck up. But she still thinks Rihannna deserved it.
This is also the same girl who was pressured into taking her clothes off and laying on the bed naked by her sister's 23 year-old bf. Her sister and the guy are still dating.
I'm deeply concerned with the lastest generation of teenagers.
@Ava-Scarlett: The thing is, though, even if there was photographic evidence, even if Rihanna had done all the nasty things people are falsely saying she did -- Chris Brown still doesn't have the right to hit her. He can dump her. He can say mean things about her. He could release those imaginary pictures to the media. But he doesn't get the right to hit her, ever, no matter what she did.
And, in turn, Rihanna doesn't get to hit him. If there was evidence she had hit him, the police would have charged her, too. (They didn't, so we can assume she didn't.) That's the way it works with DV cases, the police have the discretion to arrest either or both parties. The idea that women get to beat up men with no consequences is also bullshit.
08/23/09
Grrr.
08/23/09
08/23/09
08/23/09
08/23/09
08/23/09
08/23/09
08/23/09
08/23/09
08/23/09
08/23/09
"She enjoys acoustic guitar and party dressing."
"One: I don't care about her musical ability, Two: 'party dressing' isn't really a definable activity, Three: if we're basing guilt off hobbies then my hobby of digging holes and putting living plants in them is surely going to earn me a class C felony sometime soon."
08/23/09
When Meredith Kercher was murdered, the Daily Fail printed what her friends had written on her wall. I found that rather intrusive and distasteful.
08/23/09
08/23/09
She also has a list of "acceptable" photos that the press can run just in cases. No drunk photos of me dancing on a bar, por favors. If they want to yank a pic of me from my Facebook, she knows the 3 that are acceptable not to delete.
It is sad that we have to have this convo, but c'mon... it's terrible for the press to use the info the way they do.
08/23/09
08/23/09
08/23/09
08/23/09
08/23/09
08/23/09
And anyone with a sparkly webpage is generally suspect.
08/23/09
So much makes sense now.
08/23/09
08/23/09
08/23/09
08/23/09
I obviously am responsible for all the negatives in his life.
08/23/09
Here I thought it was the police investigating the romantic partners who always have an air of suspicion around them, especially if the couple got into an argument prior to the murder.
Now I know that it is the the patriarchy at work again trying to keep independent women down.
08/24/09
08/23/09
08/23/09
08/23/09
08/23/09
02/22/09
02/21/09
02/21/09
And I also want to thank you all for talking about your own experiences this week.
When I was a rape crisis counselor, I learned just how powerful it is when people start to tell their stories, for the teller, as well as for those listening. Jezebel is a much, much larger community, there are many more listeners, than we begin to know. I'm certain that these stories have had an enormous impact on many, many people, men and women. Please know that these conversations have likely saved some lives.
02/21/09
Again, sucky week.
02/21/09
02/21/09
Just look at Britney Spears and how eager so many young women were to tear her down at the first sign of trouble in her life. I can't tell you how many comments I saw/read where women speculated that she was a terrible parent/psycho/alcoholic/drug addict and nothing but praises were given to Kevin Federline. The moment a successful woman shows a chink in her armor, we do all we can to finish tearing her down.
In a lot of ways I don't think you can even blame these girls for feeling this way. It's ingrained into us from birth, survival of the fittest. Most teenage girls are probably not even aware that they think this way. In a lot of ways women are far more evil to each other than a man could ever be to us.
02/21/09
02/21/09
02/21/09
Life long resident here, I think Chicago will always produce the crazy. In good and bad times we will always have Mayor Daley, the janky public school system, and the CTA to bring the disappointment and lulz.
We're gonna be holding onto Barack Obama FOREVER!
02/21/09
This is also the same girl who was pressured into taking her clothes off and laying on the bed naked by her sister's 23 year-old bf. Her sister and the guy are still dating.
I'm deeply concerned with the lastest generation of teenagers.
02/21/09
Is there nothing that he can be charged with? Dear god that is 41 kinds of wrong.
02/21/09
And, in turn, Rihanna doesn't get to hit him. If there was evidence she had hit him, the police would have charged her, too. (They didn't, so we can assume she didn't.) That's the way it works with DV cases, the police have the discretion to arrest either or both parties. The idea that women get to beat up men with no consequences is also bullshit.