New York, 3:43 PM
Sat Nov 28
24 posts in the last 24 hours
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Jezebel 
01/30/09
Sexism within Orthodox Judaism is not a stereotype, it is real and it is something Orthodox women experience every day. I suspect that Hartman's way of battling sexism is the most effective-start your own and the hell with the frum establishment.
01/31/09
Absolutely I think the agunah issue is a ridiculous chilul Hashem, and that sexism in Orthodoxy is real. I've been a victim of it way too many times. I agree with everything you said. My point is that it's possible to combat the fucked-upness of the frum establishment while maintaining your personal observance and faith.
01/28/09
And even if biology were a valid reason 2000 years ago, why is it valid today? Orthodoxy wants to keep women subjugated to men in every way. Reciting the Woman of Valor on Friday night and "letting" women teach classes on "family purity" aren't steps on the way to equality. If the Orthodox establishment wanted to help women, they'd do something about the agunot. Until they do, they're sexist bastards in my book.
I respect what Ms Hartman is doing and congratulate the members of her congregation. I wouldn't like a mechitzah where I daven, but if that's what that group wants, fine. They should create the kind of environment they find conducive to prayer.
01/29/09
There is no decision-making body called "Orthodoxy." We don't have a Pope. There are more conservative and more liberal communities more closed and more open-minded. There are organizations of Orthodox women, like Mavoi Satum and Kol Isha, that fight against the injustices of the agunot issue, and there are the sexist bastards that promote the status quo. Like any community, the Orthodox world is complex. I myself went to an ultra-Orthodox school, a hippie/chassidic synagogue, a right-wing religious Zionist study abroad program, and a secular liberal arts college. I'm now a quasi-modern Orthodox left-wing feminist who learns Chassidism and goes to religious peace rallies on the weekends. And I'm not by the far the only category-fucked person in the Ortho community. So no more tired stereotypes, please. In order to combat intolerance and injustices in the community, we need to be empowering those who are fighting these battles from within.
01/27/09
01/27/09
01/28/09
It's a huge discussion, but I would say that it has nothing to do with misogyny, and everything to do with the social mores of 2,000 years ago. They were put forth by very learned rabbis whose holy wisdom on Talmudic matters was somehow thought to extend to everything, including women's natures and roles in society. Over time and centuries of exile, false messiahs, ghettos and pogroms, Orthodox Judaism "circled the wagons", so to speak, disdaining innovation and new interpretations in favor of preservation of the tradition. These opinions have become entrenched as today to the point where you'll find apologists saying that women are inherently "more spiritual" and therefore don't need to put on tefillin, or lead services, or take public roles in Judaism at all. No, that is the eternal crutch of our more animal-natured male counterparts, who needs the bells and whistles to connect to God, when we women are just floating on spiritual ecstasy all the freaking time.
So I wouldn't call it misogyny, just an unwillingness to keep the oral tradition going, to believe in the holiness and dynamism of the Torah simultaneously.
I didn't mean this to be a thesis, I just feel strongly about it I guess :-)
01/28/09
01/28/09
01/28/09
01/27/09
01/27/09
I became bat mitzvah at 35. I would say that if you find a conservative shul that you like, you might be able to have a re-do, if you'd like. Some really elderly ladies have become bat mitzvah at our shul -- the very idea makes me happy!
01/27/09
01/27/09
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01/27/09
01/27/09
Like: not recognizing my chupa because the rabbi was Conservative, instead recognizing only the ceremony performed by a retired judge in my mother's American living room, which ceremony had to be performed so that Israel would recognize my marriage at all. Not that I'm bitter. Or anything.
01/28/09
01/28/09
01/28/09
I'm tempted to type some version of "You have got to be kidding me" but I of course know that you're not. I'm mostly horrified by how unsurprised I am. Man I sure do love and miss the place but there are days....
01/27/09
01/27/09
01/27/09
01/27/09
And this congregation is making it possible. So. Cool.
01/27/09
01/27/09
Well, I was at the Div School, and I'm actually very far from Orthodox. But there's no harm in trying.
01/27/09
It's kind of old now, but Blu Greenberg's On Women and Judaism (1981) is a really excellent, honest discussion of the struggles for a woman who considers herself both Orthodox and a feminist. (And her How to Run a Traditional Jewish Household is fun, funny, and very very helpful!)
01/27/09
01/27/09
I have been meaning to read that Greenberg book for years. Then again, I've also been meaning to master Yiddish, but...
01/27/09
@CollegeBookworm: Very, very worth it -- in no small part because she is honest about the struggles, and the places where things don't line up, and she has to make a choice. Honesty being a very rare and highly commendable quality...!
01/27/09
I'm recently returned from two weeks in Israel with Taglit-Birthright Israel and visiting family. I'm an observant Conservative Jew, and a feminist, and I cried at the Kotel (Western Wall) because I found myself incapable of prayer in such a clearly sexist space. For those who are unaware, the women's section of wall is normally about half the size of the men's, about a third of the wall in total. Due to work being done on the right side of the wall, part of the women's side is inaccessible, taking it down to about a quarter of the accessible space. I was in tears, and when my group returned later that day for Shabbat evening services, I just stayed in the courtyard crying.
Right now, there is very little space, if any, for an observant feminist Jewish woman in Israel. Next time I'm in Israel, I will make sure to spend a Shabbat at Shira Hadasha. I'd love to find a space to be comfortable praying in Israel.
01/27/09
Next time you're here, I'll take you on a tour of all the egalitarian and feminist observant institutions Jerusalem has to offer. And that goes for any Jezzies coming to Israel anytime soon.
01/27/09
01/27/09
@deeemer: The Ultra-Orthodox control the holy sites, and they don't give a damn about fairness or equality. They're the fucking Jewish Taliban. It's a national shame that Israel lets them run our holy places.
@deitybox: I will take you up on that the next time I'm in Israel. We can lay tefillin togther.
01/27/09
01/27/09
01/27/09
As for your opinion that the ultra orthodox control the holy sites, that is entirely untrue. Har Habayis, or the area near where the great mosque is, is the holiest site in Israel, and the ultra-orthodox don't believe that anyone should go there. And yet, people do, and no one tries to stop them.
Another extremely holy site is Mearas Hamachpalah. And actually, that site is predominantly run by Arabs.
01/27/09
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01/27/09
That being said, do you actually know anything about the Israeli army? I have loads of friends who were there. All very orthodox.
It sounds like you have an axe to grind about the ultra-orthodox, but incendiary comments comparing them to a regime that practices rape and murder and torture of thousands is unnecessary.
01/27/09
And it was Haredis in Jerusalem who threw stones at me for wearing jeans and a turtleneck. In Givrat Ram near the Knesset, no less.
Yes, I know plenty of people who have served in the Israeli army. None of them were Haredi because the Haredi use the loophole to avoid miltary service. I make a distinction between orthodox and Haredi.
01/28/09
What's the difference between Ra'anana and Great Neck?
In Ra'anana nobody talks about making aliyah.
01/29/09
01/27/09
01/27/09
It's right on to frame this in terms of how a community can respond to this issue - the best solution isn't just a "separate but equal" one.
01/27/09
01/27/09
This is amazing...
01/27/09
01/27/09
01/27/09
Because while I don't have issues with it- seeing as I've read Torah plenty of time! -I know that for many who were raised Orthodox, women reading from the Torah is not a feminist issue but a halachic (Jewish/rabbinic law) issue. So if you're concerned about the halachic implications therein, then why not try to research what halacha Shira Hadasha is using to justify allowing women to read Torah?
01/27/09
I applaud Shira Hadasha, and I would love an opportunity to go there and see it for myself. Reading the article, and seeing where Tova wants the shul to go in the future. . .well, it's where Reform went long before her. I appreciated more what that other Rabbi told her - that she tried to mold the shul into what she perceives herself to be, and not what it actually is.
01/27/09
01/27/09
In terms of niddah, well, to be honest, I don't think it's anyone else's business when I have my period, and I don't allow it to interfere with my life. I believe I may have had my period during my bat mitzvah, actually. Whether the women of that congregation care about niddah, I'm not sure, but it's not a tradition that I practice. If they care about it, I'm sure they have some sort of system in place...
01/28/09
01/28/09
01/28/09
01/27/09
It's about fucking time someone put some cracks in the Orthodox glass ceiling.
01/27/09
01/27/09
I'm learning a lot here! :)
01/27/09
01/27/09
01/27/09
01/27/09
(I think you know how I feel about the ultra Orthodox...!)
01/27/09