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New York, 10:03 AM
Mon Nov 23
18 posts in the last 24 hours
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10/14/09
10/14/09
It teaches all sorts of lessons which are very destructive, and which more than weigh out the temporary good of "Well at least little Bobby stopped trying to play with the stove."
Spanking teaches children that violence and love are interrelated. It teaches that suffering and the body should be ignored, not felt. Spanking children teaches them that they are not worthy of the respect of adults. Spanking provokes anger and desire for revenge, which must be repressed; children learn how to repress their feelings this way. Since many parents spank in the throes of anger, but insist their spanking is educational, children learn to accept deceptive arguments from authority figures.
I feel very strongly about this.
10/14/09
Other people have made this comment too, but even though I was only spanked very rarely, I think that just the thought of getting spanked and/or being threatened with belts definitely made me behave a number of times when nothing else would have made me do so--I was a devious and inventive child. So, when used sparingly, I think it had even more power. I'm sure you could say that threats are not the best way to keep your child in line, but I don't think it had any detrimental effects on me. I have a very loving and respectful relationship with my parents, and I've never regretted the fact that they spanked me.
Then again, I think I weaseled my way out of that power dynamic a bit earlier than most, because when I was 8 or 10 or so, I realized that my dad was (and is) a fat old man and that I could run faster than him! No more spankings happened after that, but the idea of grounding was introduced soon after...
10/14/09
My mom was very emotionally abusive with no social skills,and also spanked us- which escalated to other nasty things like slapping and withholding and leaving and verbal abuse. Im still viscerally afraid of her, and still sometimes have nightmares about screaming and not being heard. Meanwhile she's starved for intimacy and affection from all of her children because we still fear her, just when she wishes for it the most. I just don't think fear is a suitable motivator for anything, its absolutely the wrong paradigm to use in life. I teach school now, and I refuse to motivate my students through fear. It works wonders for them and they blossom and get inspired...
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My mom still vividly remembers the threatening length of rubber hose hanging from a peg in her Kindergarten class. She was never hit with it, but dreaded the possibility, even though she was a meek, quiet child--an unlikely candidate for the hose. However, she didn't want her children to live with that unspoken possibility hanging over their heads, so we knew from early on that WE Were Not a Spanking Household and even as a child, I made judgments on parents who kept homes that were Spanking Households.
Despite my judgment at the time of Households that Spank (and a lingering judgment, I admit), for all my mother's good intentions, we probably endured a lot more abuse than most kids who get spanked...my dad had serious rage problems and the sound of his screaming, either at you, about you, or about or to my mom or brother was a constant menace. I would have rather been spanked.
10/14/09
Ditto. Given the choice of 3-5 swats on my plump backside and getting screamed at and cursed out and given the silent treatment, you know don't have to guess what I'd choose as punishment. Seriously, the pain a kids butt receives from being smacked with a bare hand only lasts moments...in fact the hand probably will hurt more than the tushie afterwards. The pain of having an overworked, angry, depressed, and possibly drunken parent take their life-long disappointments out on you verbally will last a lifetime.
10/14/09
10/13/09
The outcry to the law change was astounding. People didn't realise that the law wasn't forbidding a light smack occasionally, it was safeguarding children against abuse. But people want their right to smack their kids.
The same outrage was prevalent when the law was changed to men couldn't legally beat their wives. Just because something shocks people because of their backgrounds and mores, does not mean it shouldn't be done.
10/13/09
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10/13/09
One day my mom and dad sat down and made a new rule for me. I wasn't to be spanked. My dad made it because he said it was useless to try and get me to conform to a parenting style that obviously didn't work for me. He said he also didn't like the idea of having to hit me harder and harder to get me to calm down and that if they didn't try something else he was afraid one day he'd go too far.
So they decided to ignore me when I threw a tantrum. If I got out of hand I was put in my parents' room (where there were no toys) and had to stay there until I could calm myself down.
I think spanking can be a reliable disciplinary tool for a lot of parents, but they also need to realize that the punishment may not be appropriate for every child. If a child's behavior doesn't change for the positive, then you need to think of a different approach. Flexibility is the best way to raise a child.
10/13/09
The methods have to be adapted to the individual
10/13/09
I took Psychology of the Family last semester in school. When we began the segment on punishment, we talked about spanking. The professor asked those in the class who had been spanked or hit as children to raise their hands.
I expected maybe 20 out of the 200 students in my class to raise their hands. But- about 70% of the students in my class raised their hands.
I was shocked! Totally blown away!
My school is a CUNY school, run by the city, so the student body is mainly middle to lower-middle-class and an even mix of ethnicities.
As a white, upper-middle-class girl living in New York City I had been completely sheltered from the fact that physical punishment is still very common. It had never occurred to me that so many parents used it! And then! People started raising their hands to defend their parents! Just like many people are doing in this thread.
The professor stated that corporal punishment is NEVER okay, and I agree. But so many people in the class thought it was okay and said they might do the same to their children. So it isn't even entirely generational, kids my age were saying that they might spank or hit their children too!
Only one or two people raised their hands to say that what their parents had done was wrong.
Spanking and hitting is never okay. Not with guidelines or warnings. Not once a month and not one a year. Hitting a child is wrong.
If a child is so out of hand that the ONLY way to restrain them is to physically hurt them, then the child has serious psychological problem that needs to be addressed with the help of a medical professional.
10/13/09
My father spanked. I think he probably only did it once to me, but I was the good middle child. My brother and sister pushed limits and would get spanked. Not because my father was angry, or because my siblings had psychological problems (well, my brother does, but not my sister). It was because when we did something that was dangerous--turning on the stove, running with knives, stuff like that--he needed a way to distinguish mild admonishments like "don't pick your nose. No seriously. Stop. Stop picking your nose right now young lady! [serious conversation about germs and manners]" from serious things like "Do. Not. Run. With. Knifes." and "Towels are flammable and if you put one on the stove and turn it on you will burn the motherfucking house down!" So he would swat us on the butt. It hurt, but mostly because it was a sign that what we did was really bad and they were really mad about it and better not ever do that again. We used to play an elaborate game with my uncle's pick up truck that we were always getting in trouble for. Don't do it, you're grounded, etc. Well one day my sister almost got crushed by the pick up truck, like the pick up truck rolling over her chest and neck. Certain death. We stopped playing the game after that, because we realized why our parents didn't want us playing it. But if we had gotten spanked, we would have realized that there was a difference between dangerous-like-get-dead and dangerous-like-candy-is-bad-for-you.
But, like when I throw my dog on the ground and growl in his face when he misbehaves, it's only appropriate to do when you are in complete control of your emotions. Any inflection of anger or frustration or fear changes the whole tenor of the exchange, and in my opinion makes it abuse.
10/13/09
Methinks your missing a point here about respect for others' lifestyle choices.
10/13/09
10/13/09
And I certainly was not spanked because I was unable to be restrained in any way or had problems. Nor my sibling. That is ridiculous.
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10/13/09
When I was an adult my parents told me they had clear rules for punishments. I think they are golden and full of wisdom:
1. Never, ever administer ANY punishment when you are angry. Give the kid a time out until you can chill out.
2. Never administer a punishment in public. If you have to do something, take them to the quietest place possible well away from everyone. Punishment in front of others is a humiliation that is damaging.
3. Always set limits and give warnings. When you give a warning, be prepared to take action if the behavior is repeated. Warnings without action just teaches a child that your words carry no weight.
4. Always explain why you had to administer a spanking. "I told you not to do that, you did it anyway, I gave you a warning and you still would not listen and now this is the consequence".
5. After the punishment we were always told that we were punished because we were loved and our parents cared about our behavior and our future. I understood that concept even at age 5. My parents always remained with us until we stopped crying and felt better. They never spanked and left us alone after.
6. When spanking or swatting a child because they have acted violently towards another, the talk should center around "This hurts. Why did you want to hurt Tommy? There is no reason to hurt another and I need to show you how much this hurts". This was the only method that managed to break my sister of her biting habit - my mother actually had to bite her in return to get her to realize what she was doing.
My parents are not college-educated. They spent their lives as rural, blue-collar people who came from farming families. They certainly have never read any books on child development or psychology. Sometimes I'm amazed they managed to figure this out.
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There were times I thought it was over the line, but other times, it was fine. There was a system:
1. Warnings. "You're doing X and if you don't stop, you will be in trouble."
2. Punishment. "I warned you that if you kept doing X, you'd be in trouble. Now you must do Y. If you do it again, you will get a spanking."
3. Spanking/swatting. "You did X after a warning and punishment, so you will be spanked."
After that, we did not do X any more. I got spankings mostly for lying, and my parents stopped after we were about 7. After that, they said that we were old enough to understand adultish logic and that spankings were not necessary any more. Also, I think they're really creepy after a certain age, but I couldn't put my finger on when.
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