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Indian Women Ride The Ladies Special To Avoid "Eve Teasing"
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VirginiaDentata
09/16/09

In reply to Indian Women Ride The Ladies Special To Avoid "Eve Teasing"
Really? EVE TEASING? I am fucking apoplectic.

I am going to start randomly cockpunching men and calling it Adam Teasing until THEY have to get THEIR own special safe place.

I am usually not a man-hating feminist. I am usually a very loving feminist. But this shit just makes me want to crush fucking balls.
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poachedeggs
09/16/09

In reply to Indian Women Ride The Ladies Special To Avoid "Eve Teasing"
I've been traveling to India for the past 4 years to work for an NGO that assists with female empowerment opportunities (education, labor skills, support groups, microcredit schemes) amongst the tribal and rural populations in So. India.

After twenty five years, we are seeing results in the community because the MEN have realized that they do better, and well everybody is better off when the village's women are in a better more equitable position.

It really is a culture thing over there.

I actually almost got into a good amount of trouble for 'eve teasing' when I was at the terminal in Bangalore's Airport. I was sitting next to a colleague who happened to be non-Indian, White, and we were just talking as usual when a female constable and two guards came over and asked me to pick up my bags and come with them. Needless to say, 15 of being lectured on 'proper' behavior in the presence of 'Westerners' and a 500 rupee fine made sitting on a 19 hour flight the least of my problems.

I understand that eve teasing can be a real nuisance over there though. A good many of the 'common men' there just don't know. They really don't know and have never been told that you just can't urinate on the side of the road. You just can't walk up to people and pinch them. It seems to be more of a class issue than anything else, and thats a whole other bag of beans.
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CherriSpryte
09/16/09

In reply to Indian Women Ride The Ladies Special To Avoid "Eve Teasing"
This is fantastic. It is going to take generations-worth of work to get men to change how they treat/think of women. Which should be done, but this solves a problem NOW.
I'm doing research on why girls in the developing world often drop out of school when they get to secondary school, and one of the leading factors is an unsafe commute. Having safer trains hugely impacts that.
So basically, Ladies' Specials everywhere, please!
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LolaQuinn is full of beans
09/16/09

In reply to Indian Women Ride The Ladies Special To Avoid "Eve Teasing"
I think this is a good idea as long as the Ladies' cars are OPTIONAL and as long as men are simultaneously sent a message that their behavior is NOT okay. Otherwise we're just punishing the victims of the crimes. Looks like India is doing is right so far (although there is no mention of how they plan to combat the inappropriate behavior. I hope there is one).
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avocadosaredelicious
09/16/09

In reply to Indian Women Ride The Ladies Special To Avoid "Eve Teasing"
From the NY Times Article:

""Even on this train," Ms. Gahlot continued, "men sometimes board and try to harass the women. Sometimes they openly say, ‘Please close the Ladies Special.’

"Maybe they think the government is helping out women and not men," she added."

Hmmm.... a class that is inherently privileged complaining about government efforts to improve the standing of a traditional underprivileged class... hmmm.. this sounds really familiar but. I. can't. quit. put. my. finger. on. it.....
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NowhereGirl
09/16/09

In reply to Indian Women Ride The Ladies Special To Avoid "Eve Teasing"
I was complaining to my great grandmother about crowded buses once and she told me I should get myself a nice long hatpin and carry it in my purse. The best part of this advice is imagining my great grandmother stabbing some groping guy with a hatpin.
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colormeroutine
09/16/09

@NowhereGirl: All that would accomplish is getting you jailed for assualt
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girlleastlikelyto
09/16/09

@NowhereGirl: That was in A Tree Grows in Brooklyn! It was kind of like a rite of passage for the heroine when she got pinched on the El and her aunt (I think) gave her the hatpin tip.
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NowhereGirl
09/17/09

@girlleastlikelyto: That's awesome to me. I never got the reference... it just made me wonder where in this day and age I'd ever find a hat pin for sale.
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jinxykb
09/16/09

In reply to Indian Women Ride The Ladies Special To Avoid "Eve Teasing"
I don't think the men ' are dirtying the cars' in protest. They obviously have no respect for women, which is why the 'Ladies Special cars were needed in the first place. They graffiti and piss on the cars because the ladies have been moved out of reach.
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Brigit
09/16/09

@jinxykb: I agree. And it takes a special kind of asshole to go out of his way to fuck up a place because because he can't get his hands on the women as easily.
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Etoiles
09/16/09

In reply to Indian Women Ride The Ladies Special To Avoid "Eve Teasing"
I think a lot of the suggestions here in the comments are really thinking about USA-style trains.

I've never been to India and I don't trust everything I see on TV, but friends of mine have been to India, and they and their photos back up what I've understood to be true, which is that trains in India are a ridiculous, ludicrous kind of overcrowded that the very nastiest days on the NYC subways, DC Metro, or T in Boston only begin to approach. How do you place a security guard or call someone out when there are so many people per square inch that you can't sort it out?

Segregating the women isn't really the answer, no, and that part does bother me, but I would also believe that it's the only thing they can do right now. Really, finding a way to make the system less crowded to start with would probably be the best long-term solution but I haven't the foggiest idea how to do that, short of getting a magic fairy to supply infinite transit funding.
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Penny
09/16/09

@Etoiles: Well, I'm not. And, like I said, I think it's the only decision to be made, but it still makes me pissy.
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Ailatan
09/16/09

In reply to Indian Women Ride The Ladies Special To Avoid "Eve Teasing"
She's leaving
Leaving
On that midnight train to Mumbai
leaving on that midnight train to Mumbai
She said she's going in a car
with only women and girls allowed.
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KimberleeJean
09/16/09

@Ailatan: She'll get real far
Won't be groped in this car
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NefariousNewt
09/16/09

In reply to Indian Women Ride The Ladies Special To Avoid "Eve Teasing"
I read "Ladies Specials" and thought they were equipping women with their own snub-nosed .38, to carry on the train.
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LaComtesse
09/16/09

In reply to Indian Women Ride The Ladies Special To Avoid "Eve Teasing"
a better solution, methinks, would be PROSECUTING ASSHOLES WHO GROPE WOMEN ON THE TRAINS! The other night on Supernanny, there was a segment called "Ask Supernanny" multiple choice. If two older children fight over a toy, what do you do? A) Encourage them to share B) Remove the toy or C) …something else. The answer was A and she made a point of saying "By removing the toy, you’re not solving anything or teaching them to handle the situation." While women are certainly not objects (and men are not children), this is EXACTLY what’s happening here.
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Edited by LaComtesse at 09/16/09 2:04 PM LaComtesse was starred LaComtesse was unstarred

colormeroutine
09/16/09

@LaComtesse: Ideally yes, but almost impossible to do. How would you ever apprehend anyone with people hopping on and off the train and changing cars every minute and a half? And a large portion of subway groping could be passed off as "it was an accident, the trains are so crowded" whether it's true or not
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Penny
09/16/09

@LaComtesse: I'm with you. If it needs to be a short-term band-aid due to a lack of resources, so be it. But I'm not excited about it.
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LaComtesse
09/16/09

@colormeroutine: Yes, but steps towards that sort of thing sends a much better message as a society than "Women should be isolated." It's pandering to the lowest common denominator and I cannot in good conscience promote it as a good idea. At best I can say it's a good interim idea as officials consolidate action plans to actually solve the problem.
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Penny
09/16/09

@Penny: Unless there's a bar, as I said.
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colormeroutine
09/16/09

@LaComtesse: Agreed, I just don't think that prosecuting the behavior on public transportation is ever going to be a realistic method. As always, the only thing that will really help is targeted education, which could take years to have any effect. In the meantime? At least this does something
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bibomaco
09/16/09

@colormeroutine: Exactly. And in North America, if you make a scene because you're being harassed in a public place, people will come to your rescue. When I took the bus in India, I felt like if I made a scene, people would just look away, or worse, gang up against me. I never felt as powerless as when I was in Delhi... no tools at my disposal to stand my ground. (Language barrier certainly didn't help)
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LaFemme
09/16/09

@colormeroutine: I agree with you. Especially because a lot of countries and cities that have this kind of thing have really, really poor legal systems and corrupt police. It could maybe work in Boston, but the idea that the Brazilians/Mexicans/Indians, etc. are ever going to start hearing and taking seriously cases of "harassment" on the metro is a dream so far off I can't even really fathom it. Hell, you can often barely get people to court for murder, you think an ass-touching is going to be something you can prosecute? Good luck.
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LaComtesse
09/16/09

@colormeroutine: @bibomaco: You’re probably right but at least create a campaign that addresses this. There is actually a subway campaign in New York where signs are posted stating that it is illegal to grope someone on a train and that you can call for help. Now, a perv who is going to do something like this? Probably not going to care. But it emboldens women to say something and begins to foster an atmosphere of groping being unacceptable behavior. This is a subject quite near and dear to me as it were and, realism be damned, I refuse to be okay with a system that does anything less than put the proper people in the wrong.
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Edited by LaComtesse at 09/16/09 2:13 PM LaComtesse was starred LaComtesse was unstarred

colormeroutine
09/16/09

@LaComtesse: Sorry, I've had just about every ounce of idealism and optimism long since beaten out of me. I'm holding onto the remaining drop for a special occasion
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outshone
09/16/09

In reply to Indian Women Ride The Ladies Special To Avoid "Eve Teasing"
I'm a teenager in San Francisco, and I'd say at least half the time (when I'm alone on the bus), males make me uncomfortable. I've had everything from moderate flirting to guys yelling at me for not giving them my number to old men masturbating to me. But I don't know how I feel about segregated trains. The idealist in me wishes we could stop the problem from the stem (= teach guys and girls not to harass others) and not simply disable the problem through barriers.
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Penny
09/16/09

In reply to Indian Women Ride The Ladies Special To Avoid "Eve Teasing"
Let's not teach men to NOT leer, let's sequester the women! Do they have bars on these trains? That's all I care about.

Strangely, I have the least amount of issues with men on trains/subways. I take the train/light rail every work day and the most irritating people are the loud teenagers.

I'M SO OLD.
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Edited by Penny at 09/16/09 1:58 PM Penny was starred Penny was unstarred

jinxykb
09/16/09

@Penny: You say 'sequester' I say 'spare'. Sexual harassment is hard to prove and taxing to one's mental health, so let's give these ladies some peace as they travel to work each day.
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Penny
09/16/09

@jinxykb: As I said above, if it needs to happen for their protection in the short-term, so be it. But, it won't help change anything. In fact, it might make it worse.

This is the same thing as telling women not to wear revealing clothing lest men grope them or harass them. Except way worse, because they're just trying to get to work.

The root of the problem is a society that accepts this kind of behavior from men. It's important not to breeze over that.
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Edited by Penny at 09/16/09 2:03 PM Penny was starred Penny was unstarred

Pandorasvoicebox
09/16/09

@Penny: You can't use the train system to teach men not to leer. You have to work to change sexism in the family, in politics, and in schools. In the meantime, you have to protect women when they're being hurt, like on the trains.
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morninggloria
09/16/09

In reply to Indian Women Ride The Ladies Special To Avoid "Eve Teasing"
Once while riding a train in the late evening hours, I noticed a guy leering at me. So I started tap dancing (I don't know how to tap dance).

He stopped looking at me.

Tap dancing is really an overlooked way of solving problems.
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CurtCole
09/16/09

@morninggloria: When I have unwanted attention I just squirm in my seat and say audibly, "Goddamn crabs." Usually does the trick.
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Penny
09/16/09

@morninggloria: Or, you know, generally acting crazy.
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Mafalda para Presidente
09/16/09

@morninggloria: I usually stare back. It's amazing how many people can dish it but can't take it, most of them will look away after a few seconds.
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Penny
09/16/09

@Mafalda para Presidente: I resort to bitch face too. But, I am not as funny as MG, or apparently as ballsy.
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Kivrin
09/16/09

@morninggloria: Also effective: Stun gun to the junkal region. (Although this method is perhaps more likely to result in arrest.)
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Mafalda para Presidente
09/16/09

@Penny: I don't tap dance because I have no rhythm. So staring it is!
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Penny
09/16/09

@Mafalda para Presidente: Well, I actually CAN dance, so they would probably try to join me.
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morninggloria
09/16/09

@Penny: I'm pretty sure that I had some after-work cocktails before boarding the train. That really got me in a tap dancing sort of mood.
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Hell on Heels
09/16/09

@Mafalda para Presidente: I tried that once and the guy followed me off the train and onto the street. Not a good experience...
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CurtCole
09/16/09

In reply to Indian Women Ride The Ladies Special To Avoid "Eve Teasing"
It's a shame that the only 'Ladies Specials' we have in this country consists of dollar beer nights.
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LuvEwan
09/16/09

@CurtCole: Yeah. When really it should be free beer nights!
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