ack--late to the party. but compelled to share. i used to live in a particular part of nyc where it was all too common for mothers, young and old, to slap their children in public, calling them rather foul names in the name of "discipline". this is humiliating, at the very least, psychologically scarring, at the most. SO many times i wanted to ask the mother in question to consider more civil admonishment of what they saw as bad behavior.
yes, the people i describe are of a ethnicity, but i think, overall, it's the domain of the poor and disenfranchised. this explanation, however, doesn't make it right, and i fear for how these children will cope growing up. those who speak up are brave--perhaps foolish, because they cannot change anything, but still brave.
Liv Tyler was brave. I'm not sure how many of you were treated to the socially acceptable abuse of previous parenting generations but I can vouch for the fact that it was never OK with me as a child -- and there is no corporal punishment continuum. That's just an excuse for out-of-control behavior aimed at the defenseless by adults who should be able to effectively manage their uncomfortable emotions. I'm still living with the hurt and betrayal of my mother's "mild" physical punishment and emotional "encouragement." I'm not surprised that therapy is a growth field.
While I totally agree with the idea that people should step in, people are forgetting that it really can make things work for the child. Often in these situations, hen the abuser is reprimanded in public, they are often more likely to privately abuse the child because of the feelings of shame that were activated. Just some food for thought (sorry I'm a therapist, I see too much of this stuff)
One of my aunt's first husbands abused her and her 3 boys. Being basically alone on base, no friends of family, she felt trapped. Her lupus, heart condition, bipolar disorder, and general bad health made her the target of most of his anger.
Long story short; the inability to protect her own children sent her into a psycotic break where she then kidnapped a 6 month-old baby girl, thinking it was her own child. She was terrified that her husband/someone was after the child and wanted to hurt her.
And that's when Aunt Debi spent time in a federal mental institution.
Man, I always end up talking about my aunt when it comes to things like this. I love her to pieces and she only recently told me the back story to why she was in the institution.
And that asshole who abused her? Shot and killed his newest wife, her cousin, and then himself last year.
I'm almost tearing up as I write this.
It seriously did a number on me as a child to know that adults in the neighborhood knew that my dad was hitting my mom and sister, even beating my sister in the front yard with a stick and they weren't willing to interfere. There was one neighbor who did talk with me about it, who wanted me to know that it wasn't okay and wasn't normal, and she also confronted my dad at times. Another woman helped us escape and hid us in her home when we left. I will never forget the extraordinary humanity of those people, and I can never forget those who knew and did nothing.
I always speak up when I witness partner or parental violence in public. There is no excuse for it; you don't have to "know" the victim, or how bad their perceived crime was. It doesn't matter that you can't stop what happens behind closed doors. If you think you're a good person, you have to stick your neck out and do what you can.
Many people have commented that they are wary as a white person to comment or try to intervene in a situation with a person of another race out of fear of appearing racist. Personally, I feel that to NOT say something in that situation is racist. I am white as well, and think that the most racist thing I could do would be to address a person or situation differently because the other party is of a different race.
I truly believe we all need to quit being so afraid of being labeled as racist and start practicing being human.
@Razorgirl: You make a good point, but I do feel like it's kind of disingenuous to pretend like race politics have no effect on how something is perceived.
@Razorgirl: Thanks. My family is Indian, and I grew up surrounded by a lot of white people who dismissed my dad's violence as a cultural quirk. It may be more common among Indian families, but that doesn't make it less wrong. I think it is more racist to rationalize not interfering because you think those people must be so completely different from you.
@Zombie Ms. Skittles: But that's not what she did. Rather, she suggested that it's racist to dismiss abuse because it's happening between black or brown people, and I agree.
I reported an abusive person to her job once. I was waiting for a bus at a bus stop near a public school, and the crossing guard, who I often saw walking home about that time, had a friend and two kids with her. One of the girls was crying, and she kept telling her that the other girl was nicer and prettier than she was, and when the child kept crying, she slammed her into the bus shelter, hard enough that she bounced off the glass. She then proceded to have a long conversation with her friend about how much she hated her job, while the child sat there crying. Someone said "you shouldn't hit your kids," but they ignored her. I didn't know if anything I could do would help those little girls, but I really thought that this was the sort of person who should not be around children in general , and could be doing all kinds of emotional damage at her job. I couldn't find a human resources officer for the county, so I actually wrote to the superintendant of schools. I wasn't expecting much, but the school district wrote me a very detailed reply, thanked me for reporting the incident, and indicated that they had conducted a preliminary investigation and were meeting with the woman to discuss the allegations and take possible disciplinary action. I don't know if I helped, or just made her angrier at the poor kid, but I felt like it was such egregious behavior, and she was doing it while in school district uniform, and it was important to say something.
It is not illegal to yell at your kid or to spank them as long as it's not excessive corporal punishment. Liv should have mind her own business. My youngest use to LOVE throwing crazy ,crying hissy fits in public. People look at you if you ignore the child having a fit and they look at you if you try to take control of the situation. NO ONE, I MEAN NO ONE BETTER COME UP TO ME AND ASK OR COME TO SEE IF MY CHILD IS OKAY.
Yes, I am yelling.
@ionu: Hoo boy...while people shouldn't be all judgy mcjudgersons about how people parent, I think this post is more about people who are *concerned* that a child is in trouble, and is being abused.
Though is it so terrible that someone comes up to ask if your child is okay?? They shouldn't tell you what to do maybe, but just checking if he or she is okay is a good thing to do. If your child was lost or in trouble without you, wouldn't you want a good samaritan to help them??
I am talking about a child crying or screaming DOES NOT give any one the right to come ask him/ or her what is wrong when there is another adult present. I do not let strangers talk to my kids. You can ask Me and I will kindly tell you to mind your business. Like I said above children love , love to throw tantrums that have absolutely nothing to do with being hit or yelled at. If the child is not in pain, bleeding or being beaten ( not talking about a pat on the butt here) then mind your business! Or call the cops. I would love to see the cops reaction when someone tells them a woman yell at her kid and now the kid is crying or a mother had the nerve to swat her kid on the butt. Again none of those things are illegal. Please, the cop will probably tell the person to mind their business.
@ionu: Who do you think you are? Who says you have the monopoly over your spawn, especially if you are in a public place? What is this "right" people do not have? Show me where this is in the Constitution or any law anywhere in the country. People have every right as citizens to ask questions or call the police, it is a civic duty to me. If a child is merely crying or throwing a tantrum, and I am in a restaurant, I will talk to the parent not about abuse, but about the child interfering with my meal. If I see you, ionu, on a subway, slapping your child repeatedly whether I "know your child" is irrelevant. The cop will tell the person to mind their own business? Maybe in the 1950s. I have no idea what makes you think you are entitled to treat your children any way you please just because they are related to you. Absolute bullshit. If I suspect abuse, such as repeatedly slapping a child (bleeding or not) I will calmly approach you. If the response is yelling at me maniacally, I will call the police for abuse and press charges for assault.
To reiterate, as far as legality is concerned, any person has the "right" to politely speak to someone in a public place. It may offend your misplaced idea that you can treat your kid however you want, but that's probably just because you're an ignorant, likely despicable human being. What kind of parent are you, I wonder, that you have to be so defensive?
@ionu: No, but screaming at your children in public and slapping them will most likely get attention. And I'd rather someone asked, actually. Sometimes parents need a time out, too. How does someone outside a situation know that a child isn't in actual danger? The situations in these two articles are a little different than just a parent getting cranky.
There are all kinds of ways to handle a temper tantrum that don't include smacking them. This situation appeared to be a baby in a stroller. That's a little different than garden variety discipline.
Taking control of a situation isn't the same as what either of these articles are talking about. And frankly, though a spanking isn't illegal, hitting kids as punishment isn't actually an effective deterrent unless the kid is already not prone to that behavior. If you're having to constantly spank a kid, something is wrong. Either they aren't learning about consequences effectively, or situations are being allowed to get out of control.
@ionu: I think it's one thing to discipline a screaming kid and quite another to watch a parent slap their kid repeatedly in the face. I hope you aren't doing the latter.
I do have monopoly over my own child. You damn sure don't. I never said shit about smacking ANYchild. So keep making assumptions all you want. I see you just want to argue w/o really reading what I wrote. Liv HAD not business to interfere.
Again, I said absolutely nothing about smacking ANY child. But just because a child is crying is not enough reason for a TOTAL STRANGER to come up to any child and ask the child if he is okay especially if there's adult present.
You must not know how to read and since said shit about smacking a child. Read again. I am talking about a parents right to discipline a child w/o interference from strangers. I mention spanking and whether you agree with it or not smacking a child across the face IS NOT SPANKING. Love how you automatically assume that I might to the latter. I thought the one of the reasons for the new comment structure was to some people ( like you) from Jumping to conclusions?
" Reasoned response to opinions and assertions presented by staff and other commenters is encouraged; accusations, insinuations, nastiness, sarcasm, etc. is not"
@ionu: It looks like we were referring to do different things-I was referring to the abuse witnessed by the NYT columnist.
Anyway, if an internet argument makes you fly off the handle like that, I shudder at the thought of what you do to your children after the slightest provocation. Consider seeking professional help before you die of a stroke or a stranger's hands after you fly off the handle in a public place
@ionu: I repeat, for emphasis, there is no "right " someone needs to come up to someone and talk to them in a public place. You can tell them to get away from you, after which you can report harassment, but there would be nothing illegal about the initial encounter. If you start yelling at someone, however, that is assault. I don't give a shit whose sensibilities I offend. I've seen pregnant women smoking and drinking and spoken my mind about it. None of my business is such an empty argument. Someone being potentially harmed is enough for me to risk offending someone's sensitive sensibilities. Anyway, you seem like the entertaining type.
You are playing the assumption game . You are accusing, insinuating and you are bringing my children into it w.o any real need to. Again I thought the reason for the new comment structure was to stop people like you from jumping to conclusions? Read my comment AGAIN. Just because You DO NOT AGREE with my statement that parents should be allowed to discipline their child Does not mean you have the right to question me as a mother. The one that need professional help is you because like you said you were referring to the NYT COLUMNIST, but you still feel the need to take a cheap shot.
@ionu: While I think that the NYT columnist's intervention was arguably more warranted to most people, I am in no way condemning Liv Tyler's actions.
You are the one who started this thread, genius, all angry and up in everybody's face about how they're YOUR children and nobody has any business over their well-being but you.
You start out by saying "it is not illegal to yell at your kid or spank them." Using your own logic against you, it is also not illegal to come up to someone in a public place to make sure everything is all right.
I am not taking any cheap shots. "Just because you do not agree with my statement that parents should be allowed to discipline their child does not mean you have the right to question me as a mother."
No, no no. You are an idiot. No really, you are a complete idiot. What is this "right" you speak of? Please show me in the Constitution or any state or local law where it says ordinary citizens have no "right" to question parents in a public place.
Oh you can't? Funny. Oh wait that's because you're wrong.
You may THINK you know what's best for your child, but bystanders have EVERY right to question you spanking or yelling at your child, both out of a sense of civic duty and the fact that it is in a public place absolutely positively makes it their business. "They're my kids," is a weak, baseless, see-through defense spoken by ig'nant parents who think that just because they pumped jizz into someone (or vice versa) to have a child, they have a monopoly over their life.
Not true. Nobody needs special permission to confront you in a public place. And that's a good thing. Maybe next time you're in a pulic place with your children you'll swallow your pride and not yell at your kids.
Child welfare is EVERYONE'S business.
If you don't like it? Too bad. There's absolutely nothing you can do to stop someone from confronting you. Nothing.
Since you are resorting to name calling. You are the f*cking idiot. You have the right to interfer then the person has the right to tell you to F*ck Off.
"You can ask Me and I will kindly tell you to mind your business."
I said it earlier, but you are way too busy attacking me to read all the comments. Funny how you did not acknowledge that the person can also tell you to F@ck off.
You should make yourself familiar with Jezebel's rules about personal attacks. Personal attacks are not condone especially on a feminist site. Or does the rules somehow do not apply to you?
@ionu: Wow, you might want to consider using a different translator.
Anyway, your point (if there is one behind the vitriol) is not self-evident. Someone can tell me to fuck off? Yeah, that's a given, considering my entire point was no one needs a reasons to confront someone in a public place, that falls under the same umbrella. Funny how all of your counterarguments were reduced to that one retort, the rhetorical equivalent of "it takes one to know one."
I haven't attacked anyone. If I've been sarcastic, it's because you started this thread with a hostile attitude.
I am quite familiar with the rules as a regular commenter on almost every Gawker network blog.
This is not a personal attack but observation-you seem to lack reading comprehension skills. You started the thread saying no one has the right to question your parenting. That is entirely wrong-the articles mentioned in this post cite people questioning parenting in public places amid suspicion of abuse. Yes, you can be indignant and defend your actions with the pathetic and baseless "They're my kids," I bet CPS will consider that a mitigating factor...oh wait. Everyone has the right to do that, and for some reason you fly off the handle in a thread you start.
You have cleverly avoiding engaging debate by accusing others of personal attacks and writing angry sentences in all caps. I don't know where this sense of self-righteousness comes from, but it's hilarious.
All talk. The internet makes so- call Heroes out of anyone, but the truth of the matter is and what I realize is that you would never have the nerve to confront Anyone FACE TO FACE. You can attack all night long via the internet,but you are ALL TALK and you sound very much like a coward. Small, vile and ignorant to boot. You do not know how to engage in a debate only how to insult. So keep typing away, but stop pretending you are ANY Child's personal savior. What.A. Joke.
I had a psychotic, abusive mother who liked to accompany her name calling with slapping and hitting with objects. I remember wishing that somebody would confront her or call the police on her. Once, during one of her beatdowns, I decided to scream at the top of my lungs, hoping a neighbor would hear, and my mom would get in trouble. Never happened.
The issue of white privilege in this story makes things so complicated. My husband and I recently decided to become foster parents in New Orleans, and while I feel that we are doing something good, it still makes me uncomfortable. We want to help abused and neglected kids, just like this author, but as white people, I fear that we come across as condescending...I suppose it would be better if more black couples were able to take in kids, but when nobody else will step up, I think it's our responsibility, right? (I know that there are lots of people willing to be foster parents, of all colors and backgrounds, I just meant to say that there is a shortage and many more are needed.)
For every kid you witness being abused, there are many more being abused behind closed doors. And the thing of it is, kids won't ask for help. They're young enough that they think it's they're fault, and they won't tell anyone. They only get help if they have visible bruises or if someone sees it happening.
I'm glad this gentlemen and Liv Tyler had the wherewithal to say something in public, but what do we do about all the abuse that goes on in private? Ugh. Now I'm depressed.
I was shopping in Macy's last year when a young lady (looked to be in her late teens/early 20s) started perusing the sale racks next to me along with her two friends.
The 3 of them were chit-chatting amongst themselves, when the cutest little toddler (looked to be about 3) ran up to the first woman saying "mommy, mommy" and hugged her leg.
The woman responded to the little girl by shoving her away and saying very loudly, "get the fuck off me, ho!"
I shot her the meanest dirtiest look I could at the time and stood there dumbfounded because that remark was about 25 kinds of wrong. The lady and her friends walked off.
I still feel bad to this day that I couldn't muster up enough courage/words to give that woman a piece of my mind.
Ugh. I like to sit out on my back patio and smoke while I read. The neighbors have a couple of young boys. I would guess ages 9 to 11. The father is constantly cursing at them. It always starts with hearing them play in the backyard, and then the father just loses it for one reason or another. Two nights ago I heard him say to his son, "Better be careful or you're going to get your ass kicked." I don't know what to do. It's not my place to step in. I can hear the mother do whatever the father wants. Again, this is all sound no visual. I'm having a tough time trying to imagine a context though. Any thoughts? Let it go? It's torture to hear these kids getting verbally beaten down every other night. Maybe I just need to quit smoking and read indoors?
@mfnher: Why isn't it your place to step in? The father is saying these things where he knows they can be overheard by others, so it's not even like he's trying to hide it. If you see something and you think it's wrong, it's your place to step in. On the other hand, you don't want him getting mad at you. I think if it was me I would take a tape recorder outside with me and record some of the father's tirades, then send the tape off to CPS along with the name and address of the family.
@mfnher: Most cities have an anonymous tipline you can call. Just tell them what you've heard, and that you're afraid the abuse might escalate. Child Services should send someone out to investigate. Then at least they'll be in the system.
I have never been a position with a child in my presence being abused, but I assume I'd have the same reaction I did when I saw a dog being abused.
Walking my dog in a very empty park in Queens. I see two teenage boys with pitbull type dogs. One is hitting the dog with a chain, like a big ass Kryponite bike lock kind of chain.
I'm on the phone with my mother, tell her to hold on and stalk over to them and ask them what the F they are doing?
They mumble something unintelligible and I tell them hitting their dog with a chain isn't going to make it tough and it makes them anything but.
They could tell I was pissed, kind of half assed apologized and hightailed it out of there.
I would find it hard to not do the same thing if I saw someone abusing a person. At that point, I don't care if I'm alone, if they are kids or old people, black or white. I get mad and it doesn't matter.
There are several different issues being presented here. Should you stand up when you see something wrong happening? Absolutely. I think the increasing tendency of American's to "mind their own business" is a cover for cowardice. No one wants to get involved because it's scary to stand up for something you believe in. Often times you risk bodily harm. I happen to think though that there is no greater show of a mans character than if they stand up for someone that can't stand up for themselves.
All Kitty Geneovise needed was for one person, JUST ONE, to try and help her and she would be alive today.
@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: I agree completely. I had a situation erupt on an overcrowded train once -- long story short, it involved a girl screaming insults at me, and threatening to kill me when I stepped off the train. Everyone on the entire train just avoided eye contact with me, the men all clutched their suitcases closer. Not one person told her "That's enough!" or seemed to look out for me. They were just going to avoid watching me get knifed. Really classy!
@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: What happened was horrible and both the police/witnesses should have been more responsible, but of all the witnesses did not know there was an assault taking place. Her attacker disappeared at one point; she was too weak to scream and had crawled around the building, out of sight of witnesses; then he came back later to finish her off. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese
Her case isn't that simple.
I hear people screaming incoherently all the time in my neighborhood and it does occur to me that I'm not just hearing the typical drunk students, but most of the time....what can I do?
@maude_flanders: Actually crime library has a much more comprehensive story on it. Many witnesses said they knew something was wrong but they just figured someone else would report it. One man even wanted to go out and help her but his wife kept him inside.
07/11/09
yes, the people i describe are of a ethnicity, but i think, overall, it's the domain of the poor and disenfranchised. this explanation, however, doesn't make it right, and i fear for how these children will cope growing up. those who speak up are brave--perhaps foolish, because they cannot change anything, but still brave.
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Long story short; the inability to protect her own children sent her into a psycotic break where she then kidnapped a 6 month-old baby girl, thinking it was her own child. She was terrified that her husband/someone was after the child and wanted to hurt her.
And that's when Aunt Debi spent time in a federal mental institution.
Man, I always end up talking about my aunt when it comes to things like this. I love her to pieces and she only recently told me the back story to why she was in the institution.
And that asshole who abused her? Shot and killed his newest wife, her cousin, and then himself last year.
07/10/09
It seriously did a number on me as a child to know that adults in the neighborhood knew that my dad was hitting my mom and sister, even beating my sister in the front yard with a stick and they weren't willing to interfere. There was one neighbor who did talk with me about it, who wanted me to know that it wasn't okay and wasn't normal, and she also confronted my dad at times. Another woman helped us escape and hid us in her home when we left. I will never forget the extraordinary humanity of those people, and I can never forget those who knew and did nothing.
I always speak up when I witness partner or parental violence in public. There is no excuse for it; you don't have to "know" the victim, or how bad their perceived crime was. It doesn't matter that you can't stop what happens behind closed doors. If you think you're a good person, you have to stick your neck out and do what you can.
07/10/09
I truly believe we all need to quit being so afraid of being labeled as racist and start practicing being human.
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Yes, I am yelling.
07/10/09
Though is it so terrible that someone comes up to ask if your child is okay?? They shouldn't tell you what to do maybe, but just checking if he or she is okay is a good thing to do. If your child was lost or in trouble without you, wouldn't you want a good samaritan to help them??
07/10/09
I am talking about a child crying or screaming DOES NOT give any one the right to come ask him/ or her what is wrong when there is another adult present. I do not let strangers talk to my kids. You can ask Me and I will kindly tell you to mind your business. Like I said above children love , love to throw tantrums that have absolutely nothing to do with being hit or yelled at. If the child is not in pain, bleeding or being beaten ( not talking about a pat on the butt here) then mind your business! Or call the cops. I would love to see the cops reaction when someone tells them a woman yell at her kid and now the kid is crying or a mother had the nerve to swat her kid on the butt. Again none of those things are illegal. Please, the cop will probably tell the person to mind their business.
07/10/09
To reiterate, as far as legality is concerned, any person has the "right" to politely speak to someone in a public place. It may offend your misplaced idea that you can treat your kid however you want, but that's probably just because you're an ignorant, likely despicable human being. What kind of parent are you, I wonder, that you have to be so defensive?
07/10/09
There are all kinds of ways to handle a temper tantrum that don't include smacking them. This situation appeared to be a baby in a stroller. That's a little different than garden variety discipline.
Taking control of a situation isn't the same as what either of these articles are talking about. And frankly, though a spanking isn't illegal, hitting kids as punishment isn't actually an effective deterrent unless the kid is already not prone to that behavior. If you're having to constantly spank a kid, something is wrong. Either they aren't learning about consequences effectively, or situations are being allowed to get out of control.
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I do have monopoly over my own child. You damn sure don't. I never said shit about smacking ANYchild. So keep making assumptions all you want. I see you just want to argue w/o really reading what I wrote. Liv HAD not business to interfere.
07/11/09
Again, I said absolutely nothing about smacking ANY child. But just because a child is crying is not enough reason for a TOTAL STRANGER to come up to any child and ask the child if he is okay especially if there's adult present.
07/11/09
You must not know how to read and since said shit about smacking a child. Read again. I am talking about a parents right to discipline a child w/o interference from strangers. I mention spanking and whether you agree with it or not smacking a child across the face IS NOT SPANKING. Love how you automatically assume that I might to the latter. I thought the one of the reasons for the new comment structure was to some people ( like you) from Jumping to conclusions?
" Reasoned response to opinions and assertions presented by staff and other commenters is encouraged; accusations, insinuations, nastiness, sarcasm, etc. is not"
07/11/09
Anyway, if an internet argument makes you fly off the handle like that, I shudder at the thought of what you do to your children after the slightest provocation. Consider seeking professional help before you die of a stroke or a stranger's hands after you fly off the handle in a public place
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You are playing the assumption game . You are accusing, insinuating and you are bringing my children into it w.o any real need to. Again I thought the reason for the new comment structure was to stop people like you from jumping to conclusions? Read my comment AGAIN. Just because You DO NOT AGREE with my statement that parents should be allowed to discipline their child Does not mean you have the right to question me as a mother. The one that need professional help is you because like you said you were referring to the NYT COLUMNIST, but you still feel the need to take a cheap shot.
07/11/09
You are the one who started this thread, genius, all angry and up in everybody's face about how they're YOUR children and nobody has any business over their well-being but you.
You start out by saying "it is not illegal to yell at your kid or spank them." Using your own logic against you, it is also not illegal to come up to someone in a public place to make sure everything is all right.
I am not taking any cheap shots. "Just because you do not agree with my statement that parents should be allowed to discipline their child does not mean you have the right to question me as a mother."
No, no no. You are an idiot. No really, you are a complete idiot. What is this "right" you speak of? Please show me in the Constitution or any state or local law where it says ordinary citizens have no "right" to question parents in a public place.
Oh you can't? Funny. Oh wait that's because you're wrong.
You may THINK you know what's best for your child, but bystanders have EVERY right to question you spanking or yelling at your child, both out of a sense of civic duty and the fact that it is in a public place absolutely positively makes it their business. "They're my kids," is a weak, baseless, see-through defense spoken by ig'nant parents who think that just because they pumped jizz into someone (or vice versa) to have a child, they have a monopoly over their life.
Not true. Nobody needs special permission to confront you in a public place. And that's a good thing. Maybe next time you're in a pulic place with your children you'll swallow your pride and not yell at your kids.
Child welfare is EVERYONE'S business.
If you don't like it? Too bad. There's absolutely nothing you can do to stop someone from confronting you. Nothing.
07/11/09
Since you are resorting to name calling. You are the f*cking idiot. You have the right to interfer then the person has the right to tell you to F*ck Off.
07/11/09
Yes, you do have the right to interfere. Thank you for finally admitting to that.
That is all.
07/11/09
"You can ask Me and I will kindly tell you to mind your business."
I said it earlier, but you are way too busy attacking me to read all the comments. Funny how you did not acknowledge that the person can also tell you to F@ck off.
You should make yourself familiar with Jezebel's rules about personal attacks. Personal attacks are not condone especially on a feminist site. Or does the rules somehow do not apply to you?
that is all.
07/11/09
Anyway, your point (if there is one behind the vitriol) is not self-evident. Someone can tell me to fuck off? Yeah, that's a given, considering my entire point was no one needs a reasons to confront someone in a public place, that falls under the same umbrella. Funny how all of your counterarguments were reduced to that one retort, the rhetorical equivalent of "it takes one to know one."
I haven't attacked anyone. If I've been sarcastic, it's because you started this thread with a hostile attitude.
I am quite familiar with the rules as a regular commenter on almost every Gawker network blog.
This is not a personal attack but observation-you seem to lack reading comprehension skills. You started the thread saying no one has the right to question your parenting. That is entirely wrong-the articles mentioned in this post cite people questioning parenting in public places amid suspicion of abuse. Yes, you can be indignant and defend your actions with the pathetic and baseless "They're my kids," I bet CPS will consider that a mitigating factor...oh wait. Everyone has the right to do that, and for some reason you fly off the handle in a thread you start.
You have cleverly avoiding engaging debate by accusing others of personal attacks and writing angry sentences in all caps. I don't know where this sense of self-righteousness comes from, but it's hilarious.
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All talk. The internet makes so- call Heroes out of anyone, but the truth of the matter is and what I realize is that you would never have the nerve to confront Anyone FACE TO FACE. You can attack all night long via the internet,but you are ALL TALK and you sound very much like a coward. Small, vile and ignorant to boot. You do not know how to engage in a debate only how to insult. So keep typing away, but stop pretending you are ANY Child's personal savior. What.A. Joke.
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07/10/09
07/10/09
I'm glad this gentlemen and Liv Tyler had the wherewithal to say something in public, but what do we do about all the abuse that goes on in private? Ugh. Now I'm depressed.
07/10/09
The 3 of them were chit-chatting amongst themselves, when the cutest little toddler (looked to be about 3) ran up to the first woman saying "mommy, mommy" and hugged her leg.
The woman responded to the little girl by shoving her away and saying very loudly, "get the fuck off me, ho!"
I shot her the meanest dirtiest look I could at the time and stood there dumbfounded because that remark was about 25 kinds of wrong. The lady and her friends walked off.
I still feel bad to this day that I couldn't muster up enough courage/words to give that woman a piece of my mind.
07/11/09
07/10/09
07/10/09
07/10/09
07/10/09
Walking my dog in a very empty park in Queens. I see two teenage boys with pitbull type dogs. One is hitting the dog with a chain, like a big ass Kryponite bike lock kind of chain.
I'm on the phone with my mother, tell her to hold on and stalk over to them and ask them what the F they are doing?
They mumble something unintelligible and I tell them hitting their dog with a chain isn't going to make it tough and it makes them anything but.
They could tell I was pissed, kind of half assed apologized and hightailed it out of there.
I would find it hard to not do the same thing if I saw someone abusing a person. At that point, I don't care if I'm alone, if they are kids or old people, black or white. I get mad and it doesn't matter.
07/10/09
All Kitty Geneovise needed was for one person, JUST ONE, to try and help her and she would be alive today.
07/10/09
07/10/09
Her case isn't that simple.
I hear people screaming incoherently all the time in my neighborhood and it does occur to me that I'm not just hearing the typical drunk students, but most of the time....what can I do?
07/10/09