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Ask Amy: "How Dare You Call Me A 'Rape Apologist'”
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Diziet_Sma
12/07/09

In reply to Ask Amy: "How Dare You Call Me A 'Rape Apologist'”
Dear everyone who thinks Amy has a point. Allow me to quote from a commenter called pixie from the previous Ask Amy thread: "This brilliant poster countered a Malaysian "modesty" campaign designed to control women instead of confront male violence". Also, might I suggest you all print it out and stick it on your mirror as a reminder of what 'awful judgment' constitutes? kthxbai
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Ananelle
12/07/09

@Diziet_Sma: I just sent this to every single one of my asshole friends who has tried to blame me for my assault. Thank you.
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Diziet_Sma
12/07/09

@Ananelle: Ugh. I am so sorry, about your assault and about your friends. It sucks that you have to educate them about this shit and deal with it directly all at the same time. Stay cool. x
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Eric Northman is mine
12/07/09

In reply to Ask Amy: "How Dare You Call Me A 'Rape Apologist'”
And if we're dissecting rape culture, I'd also like to point out this wonderful article written about Latoya about the "Not Rape" Epidemic. It is not the same as rape, but it is damaging and painful and the shame and silence continues to perpetuate our rape culture.

[www.racialicious.com]

Seriously, I highly recommend you check it out. It's scary that regardless of background almost all of us can relate to this.
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Meangirl.is.for.the.Horde
12/07/09

@Eric Northman is mine: Yes! Reading this was excellent and filled in some mental holes for me that I didn't even realize I had about rape culture.
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MsFab
12/08/09

@Eric Northman is mine: That was a great piece, I forwarded it to all my friends.
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Just click your heels three times
12/08/09

@Eric Northman is mine: Fantastic essay. Her words really spoke to me. I am going to send this essay to my friends. Thank you for posting it.
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Ginmar Rienne
12/07/09

In reply to Ask Amy: "How Dare You Call Me A 'Rape Apologist'”
The Army gives a 'briefing' on sexual harassment and rape in which they point out ---in all seriousness---that alcohol is a factor in 52% of all rapes. So....what the rapes that are committed when the rapist is stone cold sober, which occur only in 4% fewer cases? They didn't give a shit about those cases.

Same thing in one of John Douglas' books---he's the FBI guy who did groundbreaking work on profiling. He said that something like 70% of rapes are acquaintance rapes. But then he brushed that statistic aside and went on to discuss only stranger rapists.
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Jenna
12/07/09

In reply to Ask Amy: "How Dare You Call Me A 'Rape Apologist'”
Amy Dickinson is also the least funny person on "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me," ever. Coincidence? I think not.
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KATE!
12/07/09

@Jenna: i never thought i would say this, but i prefer paula.
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stealthird
12/07/09

In reply to Ask Amy: "How Dare You Call Me A 'Rape Apologist'”
I hate Amy Dickinson's column and I wish my paper would stop printing it. Not only is her advice crap, her writing is just plain terrible. Why can't they give her job to someone with actual talent? She's in league with Katherine Kersten and Michelle Bachmann--unintelligent, untalented people whose jobs should be given to one of the many intelligent, talented and capable-of-thinking-critically people who are currently out of work. I normally don't believe in demanding apologies--I generally think that if you want a genuine apology, you have to accept that you might not get one at all, because if someone isn't actually sorry, demanding that they say they are isn't going to make them sorry, even if they do say so. But in this case, I think Amy owes an apology for not taking a job as a fry cook somewhere and giving her slot at the Chicago Tribune to someone more deserving. Carolyn Hax's advice is far superior to Amy's (and so is her writing). The Chicago Tribune should find someone on par with her. Oh, and "how dare you call me a rape apologist" isn't much of an argument. Amy.
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pantsless economist...access RESTORED
12/07/09

In reply to Ask Amy: "How Dare You Call Me A 'Rape Apologist'”
I've said it before and here it goes again: Carolyn Hax would've gotten it right.
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kad9k
12/07/09

In reply to Ask Amy: "How Dare You Call Me A 'Rape Apologist'”
I've written some opinion columns and received my fair share of angry letters, and I'm shocked at how unprofessional her response is. I have no doubt this is the most controversial column she's ever written, but this can't be the first time she's dealt with pissed-off readers. It comes with the territory (and most of the time, it's kind of fun!). The personal attack is WAY out of line, and reads like it's coming from someone with no experience with angry readers, instead of a seasoned advice columnist.
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Diziet_Sma
12/07/09

In reply to Ask Amy: "How Dare You Call Me A 'Rape Apologist'”
Sadie, I hope you don't mind if I add that:

1. There are over 150 comments on her column, which from my cursory research is about 130 more than most other articles get. And this is despite the fact that they have deleted about 20 or so - including about 3 of mine where I was just asking where Amy's retraction and apology were. So it's still not too late to post there. Link: [www.chicagotribune.com]

2. I emailed Amy, CCing the editors, registering my concerns and asking if there was any plan for a retraction and apology. I got this response: "Thank you for your feedback on Amy's column. She has heard from other readers who disagreed with her advice as well, and is taking the criticism very seriously. She plans to re-address this issue in an upcoming column very soon." Basically, 'eff off' in PR lingo.

3. One of the comments I made that was deleted listed the editors' email addresses - freely available in the 'Contact Us' section of the online paper. This tells me they got sick of receiving emails from people. So, here you go:

Amy Dickinson - askamy@tribune.com

Don't forget to CC the editors!
• Gerould W. Kern, Editor - ctc-editor@tribune.com
• R. Bruce Dold, Editorial Page Editor - bdold@tribune.com
• Jane Hirt, Managing Editor - JHirt@tribune.com
• Bill Adee, Editor/Digital Media - BAdee@tribune.com
• Joycelyn Winnecke, Associate Editor - JWinnecke@tribune.com

4. Signing that Change.Org petition is really easy and takes no time!
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Edited by Diziet_Sma at 12/07/09 4:16 PM Diziet_Sma was starred Diziet_Sma was unstarred

Alohamaid
12/07/09

In reply to Ask Amy: "How Dare You Call Me A 'Rape Apologist'”
You know I have a question: how common is rape in frats/frat parties really? I feel like this has become such a cliche I instinctively question it. Colleges have done a lot over the past 2 decades to crack down on frat behavior and educate their student body on rape. My own experience living next to several frats is that the parties were riotus but the guys themselves were generally sweet and well meaning and would be the first ones to step in and protect a woman who was being mistreated. Maybe its not about the frats so much as any huge party with lots of booze is a potentially dangerous environment. Also, I feel this emphasis on environments/people who are dangerous just gives girls a very very misleading sense of security. I think you're far far more likely to be assaulted by the "nice guy" you went on a date with then the random frat dude. Frat party just seems like a version of the sinister "guy in bushes waiting to rape you" meme that people used to avoid the reality that yes even that "great guy" you met in history 101 might be a rapist and how did our society let that come to pass.
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CollegeCamel
12/07/09

@Alohamaid: My school does not have a Greek system, but there is one dorm on campus that is populated by the entire lacrosse team, as well as some members of the hockey and water polo teams as well...so, basically the closest thing to a frat house we have. Two of my friends who were freshmen assigned to that dorm last year were sexually assaulted in their own dorm rooms by the fratty bros that they were unfortunate enough to share a floor with.
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TooManyCats
12/07/09

In reply to Ask Amy: "How Dare You Call Me A 'Rape Apologist'”
I was as appalled by the "blame the victim's poor judgment " response as the next person, but I was glad to see the article about it and the discussion it engendered here on Jezebel. I often use stories from Jezebel as starting points for great discussions with my soon to be heading off to college daughter. This one, she brought up to me. It led to a very thoughtful talk about life, judgment, and fairness. Then we both signed the petition.
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SomeAuthorGirl
12/07/09

In reply to Ask Amy: "How Dare You Call Me A 'Rape Apologist'”
An outraged, defensive email containing personal attacks is a sure sign of someone who knows they pooped on the carpet but will resist owning up to it.

If I send her an email to point this out, I wonder if I'll get an outraged, defensive reply.
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Rooo sez BISH PLZ
12/07/09

@SomeAuthorGirl: Haha. No, you don't. You don't wonder at all.
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freestylewalker
12/07/09

@SomeAuthorGirl: I think you're completely correct. If Dickinson felt like she didn't do anything wrong, she wouldn't have responded to an individual, but perhaps would have done a follow up column (or truly let her current column stand alone). She knows she fucked up and seems to be trying to talk herself out of feeling bad about it.

I agree that young women need to take better care of themselves--to an unfair degree, a dude could get drunk and pass out at a party and the worst thing that may happen to him is that his friends draw testicles on his face--but chiding a victim for being irresponsible (human?) should never have been a part of any professional response. Sure, tell your readers to cautiously avoid similar behavior (even though, again, that double standard sucks), but don't kick a gal who is already down and who can't change what happened to her any more than she could have controlled the instinct of her rapist to harm her.
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Diziet_Sma
12/07/09

@SomeAuthorGirl: DO IT.
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Edited by Diziet_Sma at 12/07/09 4:39 PM Diziet_Sma was starred Diziet_Sma was unstarred

SomeAuthorGirl
12/07/09

@Diziet_Sma: I'm going to sleep on it first, then inform one Ms. Dickinson in a superior fashion how I slept on it and woke up with the same conviction that I had when I went to bed.

I'm going to work in something about a "teachable moment" too.

The more I think about it, the more it saddens me that she didn't see it as such. Hm. I just depressed myself with my own snark.
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SomeAuthorGirl
12/07/09

@freestylewalker: What saddens me is that the email response demonstrates she wasn't having a thoughtless moment of advice dispensing. It reads to me, in between the lines, almost desperately of "please please do not fuck with my understanding of the world." I'm not sure I'm articulating it well, but the longer I consider it, the more painful I find it.
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lalaland13
12/07/09

In reply to Ask Amy: "How Dare You Call Me A 'Rape Apologist'”
Apparently, women are just victims of our own awful vaginas. Pretty poor judgment on the universe's part, giving us those shame caves.

I am a control freak, and an anxious one at that. I try to keep an eye on my surroundings, etc. But it wouldn't fuckin' matter if I went out on the town in full chain mail, because someone could still decide to rape me, and that would be their choice entirely. It would be all about them, but I would be the vessel through which the violence is committed.

And then I could go to the hospital and hear some asshole nurse tell me that, "Oh gosh you went out in chain mail! That reminds guys that we're not in the Dark Ages anymore, and they get angry and aroused at how you women can vote nowadays! What were you thinking?"
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BestEuphemismEver
12/07/09

@lalaland13: Love. Yeah, I'm referring to it as the Shame Cave from now on. Do you want a royalty, or a flat fee?
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lalaland13
12/07/09

@BestEuphemismEver: Actually, I heard that on The Daily Show. It is an awesome phrase, though. Jon Stewart can set up residence in my cave any time.
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Phil Mickelsons Man Tits
12/07/09

In reply to Ask Amy: "How Dare You Call Me A 'Rape Apologist'”
Amy Dickinson is clearly implying that the victim's decision-making set in motion the events of the night, but in no way is she absolving the rapist of his crime.

Is Dickinson insensitive? Perhaps. But she is not a rape-apologist.
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Penny
12/07/09

@Phil Mickelsons Man Tits: Perhaps she's insensitive? Wow, your bar is set quite low.
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Phil Mickelsons Man Tits
12/07/09

@Penny: Stop with the name calling. You have no idea where my "bar is set."

I'm simply drawing the distinction between letting somebody off the hook (an apologist), and attributing responsibility to multiple sources (which is what Dickinson did.).
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bluebears
12/07/09

@Phil Mickelsons Man Tits: well no one said she was a "rape-absolver." She's apologizing for the rapist by partly blaming the victim for her own actions.
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bluebears
12/07/09

@Penny: yes! Stop with the name calling! that...appeared nowhere in your comment...hm. Well I'm confused.
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gold_gato
12/07/09

In reply to Ask Amy: "How Dare You Call Me A 'Rape Apologist'”
How was the email not respectful and educated, as Dickinson suggests? Maybe we should cut her some slack; Maybe Dickinson is a victim of incompetency.
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Birthday Girl
12/07/09

In reply to Ask Amy: "How Dare You Call Me A 'Rape Apologist'”
Signed.

Is it just me or do advice columnists frequently give really harsh, judgmental "advice"? From what I've seen of Dear Prudence and Dear Abby, these ladies seem to thrive on pointing out the advice-seeker's shortcomings before finally moving on to some overly general, not-very-helpful advice.

Even when it's a less heinous example of the "it's all your own fault, you wretched simpleton" attitude, I still think it's rude and unhelpful. These people wrote in asking for advice, not criticism.

What doesn't she understand about that? And what does it say about her that even thought she clearly knows that this girl was raped and needs help, she just cannot lay off of the "you were a victim of your own poor judgment" line? It's like she can't help but be critical.
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bluebears
12/07/09

@Birthday Girl: even so-called "progressive" advice columnists (see Dan Savage) tend to get quite judgmental if the person writing in veers from the columnists version of acceptable behavior.
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boxspelunker
12/07/09

@Birthday Girl: I kinda wish they would just come out and say, "It's all your own fault, you wretched simpleton". It would make it so much clearer.
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