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New York, 5:51 AM
Thu Nov 12
67 posts in the last 24 hours
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09/18/09
A heaping portion of the Twilight fan hate is probably thanks to misogyny and the usual shit female fans get. But not gonna lie, everything I've heard and seen from that fandom suggests batshit crazy. But, y'know, glass houses and all. I'm a Harry Potter fan and we have some Grade A crazy.
09/18/09
I think the whole "it used to be about all the approved geekdoms" is a way to avoid talking about the hostility in geek culture, especially towards girls, and especially towards girl centric stories/properties.
If the same crowds had showed up for something more guy centric, there wouldn't be this outcry.
09/18/09
Geeky folks are constantly trying to out-geek each other, or claim one geekdom is "better" than another, when they're all somewhat based on having an obsessive interest in a story universe.
I'm not knocking that. It's how I make a living. I'm also not knocking Twilight fandom, because it's no different than any other, except that there are a lot more girls/women obviously involved than, say, Star Wars. Or at least that are being focused on. I know plenty of women who love Star Wars and Star Trek...it's just no one is looking at that.
I may not like Twilight the story, but people have every right to be obsessive about whatever story gets to them. Even when they're terrible. I read all kinds of crap as a teenager. It's a right of passage.
So, my judgment is reserved for material I find subpar, not the fans of subpar material. Because we literally all like something that we probably know is bad, like a guilty pleasure. The only time I get annoyed with fans in any fandom is when they're judgmental, obtuse, or hostile towards anyone else. That gets my hackles up.
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But then he went in a direction that, to me, seemed to once again tie a woman's importance to her sexuality. I wasn't creeped out, I was just disapointed.
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I read Textual Poachers recently, which deals with the marginalization of (mostly female) fandom -- it's a really good read, especially for anyone who was a geek girl in the 80s or earlier (since it came out in, I think, the early 90's). Some things have changed, some things stay the same...
and oh yeah, Kevin Smith, you are still awesome
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IS YOUR WORLD ROCKED YET?!
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Ship = Short for "Relationship."
Shipper = Someone with a favorite ship.
Ship to Ship Combat = Two or more groups with different ships argue about which is "correct."
Canon Ship = The official couple of the series.
Fanon Ship = The official couple of the fandom.
OTP = Short for "one true pairing." Generally, the favorite couple of a particular person.
Fanon = A fan made continuity usually created after a particular series is over and designed to fit into the canon.
09/18/09
I actually hate the pigeonholing of girls in fandom, like if you're a girl you must be a blithering idiot over vampires, or you must love yaoi/slash, or whatever. The one problem with the otherwise amazing anime Genshiken (which was about otaku and could have been written about me and many people I knew in college) was that all the girls turned out to be yaoi-lovers in the end because that was the Girl Area in otaku culture. I loathe yaoi, and I was really hoping I could see a female otaku who didn't play to stereotype.
09/18/09
It annoys me that people always associate girls with Vampire fandoms, but never any other fandoms! I've been a huuge Lord of the Rings and Star Trek geek since I was kid! I will not be denied my right to geek it up with the best of them. How many people do you know that use Star Trek Starship call numbers as their passwords? NCC1701, thank you very much.
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That being said, I don't judge the younger Twilight fans. I hope they'll come to realize that Twilight does not in any way show us an ideal love, but a fan's got to start somewhere, I guess. Now, as for the Twimoms...
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09/18/09
I had my Bitch PLEASE face on at that. Because I would so be on the torchwood/dr.who/dexter/Wonderland panels.
That being said....I don't like the idea that because I'm a girl I'm supposed to like Twilight. I'll take Ann Rice any day, and that happens to be the only vampire literature I can stand. I also don't like that as a girl, my main 'aim' in a fandom should be to cosplay as someone slutty or swoon over hot so-and-so character. If I want to be Spock, GOSHDARNIT I'll dress as Spock. If I want to have a intellectual and logical discussion on Harry Potter, I will. Yes I like torchwood and Dr. Who. No, my boyfriend did not introduce me to it.
-end rant-
Your post just made all that poof into my head, sorry. ^.^
09/18/09
Which, really, is something I realized was there years ago and may be part of the reason I support the Twilight fans. This isn't a boys club, or at least it shouldn't be.
09/18/09
I told him I didn't feel like talking to him anymore and to get lost.
All the hate and disdain directed at the Twilight girls made me put aside my own misgivings about the quality of the books and just want to fight for these girls. Grown men being so hostile to teenage girls is ridiculous and alarming. It has a definite undercurrent of misogyny and feeds off the perception that things that women or girls like are inherently inferior. And so many of these men love superhero comics that aren't exactly great literature. What do they have to be so high-and-mighty about?
09/18/09
We're typically left out of other "hardcore" fandoms for two reasons. Either the genre (for whatever reason, the meme that women don't like Sci-Fi has stuck) or the stories have been gendered male (like LOTR). So people assume women aren't reading about some dudes with swords. Forgetting that LOTR, for instance, has a deep romanticism and some awesome female characters.
I do pass judgment on Twilight the story, but not really the fans. I've read and watched some terrible crap in my time. :}
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I'm anti-Twilight, but I find it really strange that you would be put off as a woman because its mostly something women enjoy.
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The reason a mainly woman based fandom doesn't appeal to me sounds strange, but in a case like twilight where the source material is written from a feminine standpoint and discussed by almost entirely women, it irks me that there aren't many more masculine points of view that could make for more varied and interesting discussions.
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Also, it has to do with how gender exclusive the groups are. Maybe there aren't many women active in a specific fandom, but those who are speak up and are treated with respect by the male fans.
Also keep in mind that you can't *really* have an idea of the make up of a fandom. You can draw of examples fom conventions, but a lot of fans can't afford to go to them. You can draw off whatever boards you post on and whatnot, but each has it's own 'vibe' and personality, and people will usually stick to a few boards than spread themselves thin across 50 different ones. Even ratings/statistics aren't relevant, because they don't count the number of people who watch the show illegally or saw it from a friend.
I'm not saying I'm taking any of those into account either, I'm ONLY speaking from MY OWN experience. Which quite obviously doesn't cover the ENTIRE fandom, only what I'M active in. ^.^ Hope that clears up my opinions a bit.
09/18/09
While there needs to be a discussion about nerdiness and female fans, and it is true that sometimes there's a bit of a trainwreck (hello, Open Boobs Project), Twilight is the last fandom I'd choose for this discussion. Even Sailor Moon would be better. Twilight just has too many problems inherently in it - and I think it's legit to say that the boys going "get out of my space!" are doing that partially because they see the many problems with the Twilight series. At least with Star Wars you can have a nice discussion about Princess Leia as a feminist figure or Luke and the Hero's Journey...
And it isn't just the boys saying "gtfo, Twilight fans", either - I've heard some of the most vocal objections from women who are tired of Twilight fans promoting the (rather creepy, dysfunctional, anti-feminist) views of Edward being ~*twoo wub*~ while completely dismissing Buffy the Vampire Slayer (who is arguably a much better role model) and similar series because Twilight is "just that awesome".
Simply put: everybody thinks Twilight fans are annoying.
As for "judge not..." - part of being a fan is recognizing that a series is enjoyable -despite- of whatever critiques are presented towards it. If you can't stand those critiques (Star Wars is just too silly, and the prequels ruined it! Lord of the Rings is just fantasy fluff with no real bearing on the real world! etc.) and come up with your reasons defending it (It might be silly but the worldbuilding's fun; who's to say it isn't an allegory for human nature?), you aren't as much as a fan as you think you are. In this case, if Twilight fans can't respond to VALID criticisms of their fandom without flailing and squawking, they're going to be judged - especially as they promote those skewed viewpoints as 'the best thing ever'. (Just as I would expect the Gor fandom to get some flak from people who aren't into BDSM.)
You can tell Twilight isn't my favourite book, now, can you...
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I actually think it's a very good place to have the discussion, because the story is so bad. So people feel they can discount the fandom that much more. Which it makes it that much more important to look at it.
I mean, I'm really curious why girls find that story so appealing when it IS so creepy. I can't relate. I would much rather watch Buffy, who deals with some of those themes, but works through them, and doesn't need to be rescued all the time. But then, I'm no longer a teenage girl who feels alone and unappreciated and wants to be rescued.
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That said, when I was twelve I was still reading Sweet Valley High and Sweet Valley Twins books like it was my job. So consider judgement withheld. Read whatevs you want, girls.
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@CurtCole: FUCK, you're right. And I just complimented ZMS on her Oh Snapping of Star Wars fans below, dammit! I was thinking more Harrison Ford than the "PADME! NOOOOO!" bullshit.
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@CurtCole: I can think of a few exceptions to that rule.
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Also, Kevin Smith? I dunno who you are but YAY YOU!
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As John "Im a PC" Hodgeman pointed out, we now have a Geek in the White House. This is the final frontier of geekdom. Let's all give up our petty divisions and hierarchies and rejoice at this triumph.
09/18/09
UNITED!
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