Supposed Christian people - supposed to follow "love one another" and "judge not" and yet they can still spew such hateful bile.
AND SD piling more misery on women who've already made a miserable decision (women rarely make this decision lightly). Is it any wonder I prefer animals?
Wait, what is this? You're alright with aborting fetuses, as long as they're the fetuses of a group you don't like? And you and people like you have the gall to say the president is like Hitler???
Edit: I am not suggesting that abortion is like the Holocaust, simply trying to point out the irony in people who do say abortion is like the Holocaust and Obama is like Hitler going on to express their approval of abortions (or deaths of those already alive) for only a certain group of people.
"Whole, separate and unique"? A fetus is not any of those things.
Whole: It is still developing and depending on the gestational stage, does not even have a fully developed set of internal organs, including a brain.
Separate: The fetus lives inside and off of the woman's body and is entirely dependent on it for survival. Separated from the woman, it cannot live independently. So a fetus cannot experience meaningful separation from the mother.
Unique: See above. Also, a fetus has no independent identity outside the woman. In fact, even an infant has no separate identity. That is a later stage of psychological development that won't begin to happen until long after birth, so it's really not at all relevant to the choice to terminate or not.
As for the notion of the fetus being "living," that is a more philosophical issue as to when life begins. But it is, as with many things in the abortion debate, a moral/ethical/philosophical/theological issue that has no consensus and should be left up to the individual to decide. Legislating morality is a bad, bad idea.
When you parse that statement down, you realize it has nothing to do with "informed consent." It's more like "misinformed coercion." Just as in the health care reform debate, I don't know how we are supposed to reason with blatant liars.
So, dude, it's amoral and wrong and evil if the right kind of person aborts, but if a librul aborts, well, one less crazy leftist to vote against?
GBfhinfejrges.
I don't think I can even type anything that expresses my anger here.
@Lady Saira, Vere de Vere: So if he thinks some people should get abortions, doesn't that make him pro-choice? No, he doesn't want women to have the power to have a choice, so I guess he's just pro-abortion. One more piece of evidence that "pro-lifers" don't give a shit about people.
This was my town hall meeting, and I sat about three rows down from that guy. He kept making snide remarks at all the Democrats and booed anyone who disagreed with him. And he was only one of the crazies, who were all white, middle-aged, and well off.
@Experiment626: It's a funny reference, but I also feel like this guy totally shows how that kind of rhetoric is really bad, whether it comes from liberals or conservatives. I guess the song, and maybe the movie Idiocracy, are more tongue-in-cheek about it, but it's still kinda messed up.
Well, I've always thought I'd opt for abortion over adoption for fear that a pro-lifer or religious bigot would raise the child. I couldn't bear to have that.
It's funny, though, to find out where the pro-lifers break down, really, when it comes to which abortions are worse than others. Wish they'd asked about Mexican babies.
It's so crazy living over here in Europe with our legalised abortion, socialist healthcare and education. It's exactly like living in a Nazi-Soviet gulag-camp and it's a wonder we all make it through the day to our evening aperitifs.
Ugh, I HATE the fact that abortion is even an argument. If you want an abortion, get one! If you don't, don't! By trying to inflict your personal "moral" views onto the rest of society, you take attention away from bigger issues that we really should be contemplating. I mean...shouldn't we, as a society, focus on the quality of life for people that ALREADY EXIST? And why, anti-choicers, are you getting bent out of shape about fetuses that AREN'T EVEN YOURS?!
@Skellatrix: Don't mean to be argumentative, but laws are created to reflect the prevaling moral views of society, it was one of the aims of the law. There is a moral element to the criminal law that can't be denied.
All I'm saying is that there's plenty of precedent for people deciding what's moral, and imposing their views on the minority as law. It's kinda part of how society works. I'd love to smoke a joint right now, but I can't. That because past versions of our society impose a moral restriction on me through the laws they passed. I disagree strongly, but I obey. It's the law.
@Agumen: But something being a law does not necessarily make it irrevocably "right".
If the majority said that, say, sodomy should be illegal again, that doesn't make it okay to become law.
Mmrph. I don't think I'm explaining myself properly, but I think you get the gist of it.
@Agumen: You have a point, but the analogy fails here where a fundamental, constitutional right is implicated. SCOTUS has decided the Constitution gives a woman a fundamental right to privacy, which would be violated by outlawing abortion. Many jurists don't agree, of course, but the mere fact that some yahoos - even if they were a majority of the population - don't like abortion doesn't mean it can be forbidden.
@Agumen: You forget that this country was designed to prevent the majority from forcing their moral values on the minority. I believe if these ideals were respected to their fullest you would be legally allowed to smoke that joint, and any woman could abort or keep her fetus with no interference from the government. Just because the religious right has hijacked the system doesn't mean that moral restrictions are correct or American. Criminal law is designed to protect public property and life, not to dictate moral behavior.
damnit! does "Cville" in that video's title mean Charlottesville, VA? Because, good christ, Charlottesville is arguably the best place to live in America, so sayeth I and many city quality of life surveys - I want to go to grad school there and I can't stand the thought of vitriol living in my idea of Utopia in America.
If anyone wants to read more of the cray-cray that is inside Leslee Unruh's head, check out Amanda Robb's profile from last year: Leslee Unruh's Facts of Life.
And there is also the clip of her on Fox rocking in her chair and squeeing about BABIES!!
Didn't I comment earlier this week about how ridiculous I find laws and restrictions and arguments regarding abortion where the goal is to make sure women know that abortion terminates a human pregnancy just absurd? I mean really, does anyone think they are aborting a kitten? I find it so demeaning and paternalistic that these people feel like women need to be reminded what a god damn abortion is.
@Zombies make the heart grow fonder: Right! Is that what informed consent is? I'm sure when they amputate an arm, they just tell you about the risks of the surgery. They don't sit you down and say, "Just so you know, an arm is that funny looking thing sticking out your side that helps you hold stuff" Informed consent should just be about risks, women seeking the procedure understand that they are terminating a pregnancy.
Analogy fail? I dunno. It's just such a butchering of the idea of informed consent to serve an agenda.
@Zombies make the heart grow fonder: It reminds me of this post I just saw on Feminist Law Professors: someone photographed the instructions for giving urine samples posted up at some medical facility: one set for males and the other for females. The one for males was really straight-forward (and, bizarrely, used anatomical words like "penis" and "foreskin" whereas the set for women tells you to "spread yourself" before sterlizing...but I digress) while the one for females included such gems as "remove your underwear and pantyhose first" (Don't just go peeing though your pants, ladies!! That's a bad girl!) and "don't touch the inside of the sample cup" - the difference was just astounding.
My first thought before I finished reading was: Well, maybe I shouldn't donate my kidney to a needy person because "will terminate the life of a whole, separate, unique, living" thing. Jesus save me. If it is inside of me then it belongs to me like every other item inside of my body from my blood vessels to my gall bladder. How bleeding hard is it to understand this? Now I will finish reading.
@ZemarSea Urchin: while I am 100% pro choice I feel compelled to point out that your analogy is absolutely awful. A kidney does not have the capacity to ever become a separate living thing. I do, however, 100% agree that "if it is inside of me then it belongs to me". spot on there.
Oh I love that guy. He only thinks he is anti-abortion, while clearly, he is actually an agent for the pro-choice movement within the ranks of the Republican camp. Because being pleased that certain people, no matter their political views, have terminated pregnancies implies support, sir. It's GOOD that those people aborted, eh? It's therefore GOOD that they had a choice to do so. Else you'd have all sorts of filthy socialist children running amok.
I'd like him to keep talking. I'll really enjoy watching him trip himself up on this.
08/21/09
AND SD piling more misery on women who've already made a miserable decision (women rarely make this decision lightly). Is it any wonder I prefer animals?
08/21/09
Edit: I am not suggesting that abortion is like the Holocaust, simply trying to point out the irony in people who do say abortion is like the Holocaust and Obama is like Hitler going on to express their approval of abortions (or deaths of those already alive) for only a certain group of people.
08/21/09
Whole: It is still developing and depending on the gestational stage, does not even have a fully developed set of internal organs, including a brain.
Separate: The fetus lives inside and off of the woman's body and is entirely dependent on it for survival. Separated from the woman, it cannot live independently. So a fetus cannot experience meaningful separation from the mother.
Unique: See above. Also, a fetus has no independent identity outside the woman. In fact, even an infant has no separate identity. That is a later stage of psychological development that won't begin to happen until long after birth, so it's really not at all relevant to the choice to terminate or not.
As for the notion of the fetus being "living," that is a more philosophical issue as to when life begins. But it is, as with many things in the abortion debate, a moral/ethical/philosophical/theological issue that has no consensus and should be left up to the individual to decide. Legislating morality is a bad, bad idea.
When you parse that statement down, you realize it has nothing to do with "informed consent." It's more like "misinformed coercion." Just as in the health care reform debate, I don't know how we are supposed to reason with blatant liars.
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GBfhinfejrges.
I don't think I can even type anything that expresses my anger here.
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that only stupid people are breeding
the cretins cloning and feeding
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It's funny, though, to find out where the pro-lifers break down, really, when it comes to which abortions are worse than others. Wish they'd asked about Mexican babies.
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@J.D.Regent: makes ME think of X-files!
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Fucking hell, I need a sandwich.
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All I'm saying is that there's plenty of precedent for people deciding what's moral, and imposing their views on the minority as law. It's kinda part of how society works. I'd love to smoke a joint right now, but I can't. That because past versions of our society impose a moral restriction on me through the laws they passed. I disagree strongly, but I obey. It's the law.
08/21/09
If the majority said that, say, sodomy should be illegal again, that doesn't make it okay to become law.
Mmrph. I don't think I'm explaining myself properly, but I think you get the gist of it.
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And there is also the clip of her on Fox rocking in her chair and squeeing about BABIES!!
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Analogy fail? I dunno. It's just such a butchering of the idea of informed consent to serve an agenda.
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Weeeeeeee reeeaaallllyyyy neeeed yooouuu tooooo taaaaalllk slooooowwwwllllyyyy toooooo ussssssss; weeeee arrrrrrrre veeeerrrryyyyyy siiiiiiimmmmmmplllllle.
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I'd like him to keep talking. I'll really enjoy watching him trip himself up on this.
08/21/09