Jezebel 
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New York, 11:40 AM
Tue Dec 1
73 posts in the last 24 hours
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A man, like Larry Flynt, like Howard Stern, can be as objectionable and outrageous as he wants to be in his personal life and his private life. He doesn't have to speak for and on behalf of all other men to be respected or successful. In fact, the more a man is willing to be a "maverick" the more he is respected (until Sarah Palin comes into the picture).
HGB was certainly a maverick, perhaps a bit of a megalomaniac. But whether you agree with her agenda or not, she paved the way for the rest of us to say "Eff you Patriarchy, this is my".
WIN.
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But she didn't. She defined her sexuality by men. Period.
04/10/09
I mean, if feminists aren't allowed to define their sexuality as it relates to men then what, we have to be lesbians (that doesn't feed into negative stereotypes or anything)? We're all doomed to masturbation? Why can't someone be a Gurley-girl and still be a feminist? Isn't is about freedom of choice and expression?
Why is it any better to let the Doyennes of Feminism tell me who I have to be than to let The Patriarchy tell me who I have to be?
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On a science-y note, I trained as an aesthetician, and one of the things I remember is that egg white masks are fabulous for your face, something about the protein. I can see where semen might work similarly.
04/10/09
There is too much emphasis on relentless, scary perfection in feminism. It's girl-on-girl crime.
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People need to take things in context. What might seem like something that is the norm now, in her time, she was being completely radical.
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If anything, her legacy is a whole mess of magazines that just try and carve those tendencies even deeper.
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If there's only one bridge across the river and it's 'male only,' I suppose you could swim across, but it might be easier to sneak underneath and crawl across the substructure.
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The problem is that exploiting your sexuality to gain power isn't really empowering, because the power is actually sourced in another person. Sexual exploitation just offers the illusion of power, while simultaneously supporting the system as it stands.
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According to the author, everyone enjoyed the pursuit and "no scuttler was ever reported to the front office. Au contraire, the girls wore their prettiest panties to work . . . Alas, I was never scuttled." Brown professed shock that modern girls would disagree with her notions of what constitutes a playful professional pastime.
Feminist icon my ass.
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EPIC FAIL
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If she considers herself a feminist, I don't have the authority to determine who may and who may not use the label, but I do think we need to stop trying to affix it to people's words and actions just to make ourselves feel better for liking them or acknowledging whatever contributions they might have made to the world. That's not necessarily directed at anyone in particular, but a general statement about a thing that often happens when people look up to someone who's status as a feminist icon is debatable. It's kind of like people needing to add all these qualifiers to why they like something that's considered a guilty pleasure. Just be honest.
As for whether we should measure her by today's standards or as a product of the times, I wouldn't judge her actions as harshly as I might if she were someone of my generation. But using a different standard to determine whether she deserves to be considered an icon is unfair to women who have gone against the grain throughout history despite the risk of being ostracized or what have you.
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@robot ninja spy is back... for now. weather: you are on notice.: I would pay to see you kick the shit out of them! Yes, she definitely took risks and I'm not denying that. And she promoted some frank discussions on sexuality that were valuable. But the overall message that she has sent has been one that is more girl-on-girl than we might be here for daring to say she's not a feminist icon. Anyone who says "Husbands are a source of supply. I never feel guilt about the wife, if she can't keep him at home." when referring to sleeping with a married man just doesn't cut it in my book. Agree or disagree that's fine, but I just can't call her a feminist icon. A publishing icon? Sure.
04/10/09
mr. birmingham and i are also big fans of "if i pop that zip on your back then you have to pop this one on my ass- then i fart in your face- GOT YOU" and "fucking with you while you're sleeping"
04/10/09
so what'd they do? pull her panties down, then everyone just walks back to their desks and resumes normal work atmosphere? wtf? not buying it.
04/10/09
@tomboygirl: But exploiting one's sexuality to gain power from men is what women have been doing, to some degree, from the beginning of time. IMO feminism is about making the world so that we don't have to do that. So that women can succeed because they are good at they do. It isn't about doing what's easier. In that case, it's easier just to resign oneself to the status quo.
Again, I know she doesn't live for my approval and if she was content to take that route to success, that was her choice, but there's not much iconic about taking the easy way out.
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they would select a secretary, chase her down the halls . . . catch her and take her panties off. Nothing wicked ever happened."
"wicked" i believe, was used in the context of- anything worse, like rape,- that's what i was getting at.
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Why? What should we judge people based on then? I don't think every single choice should be respected just because it's a "choice".
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It's wrong to judge people because they have big noses or wear too-small pants.
It's appropriate to judge people for their ideas and the things they say.
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Lady GaGa, I'm looking at you. And judging.
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But since the magazine she created and its ilk are something feminists fight against on a regular basis (see Cover Lies, etc. on this very site) enshrining her as a feminist icon makes me very uncomfortable.
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