I was never aware that women needed to be materialistic to be single- or that being single was some great crime. My godmother is a single middle age lady who leads an incredibly fulfilling life. She doesn't need to buy Manolos or fancy dresses, she just rocks it with her cats and her dog in her adorable house.
Maybe the whole world is different for NY women? Is it really that much more like SATC? Or is it just a very small segment of society?(my guess is the last one)
Can someone please enlighten me on the advantages of marriage? Aside from the benefit of 2 incomes ( I know you build equity, buy house ... but sometimes that doesnt work out and you don't need to be Married). So why get married at all? What are the tangible benefits? Isn't there a marriage penalty tax?
Why on earth would you marry ( unless you are a golddigger so basically its your job)?
@CharlotteTrampling: I think for my partner and I we'll get married when we decide to have kids, for legal reasons. But yeah, aside from that I don't really see the point. I think finding a higher level of commitment with someone you love is an amazing thing, but you can do that without the piece of paper.
@CharlotteTrampling: i have to say I have done none of the things you suggested since getting married I have no equity and no house (i like renting, I have never wanted to own a house). I married because I knew I wanted to spend the rest of my life with the man I married and I felt like making that comittment in public I suppose - I don't know because marriage never occurred to me until I did it at 33. I had no pressure, no one ever said why aren't you married and I wasn't bothered by the concept. But I also never lived with my boyfriends pre marriage because I didn't actually like any of them enough to give up my space.
Ultimately I don't think there should be pressure one way or the other. Marry or don't. The relationship is what counts and a piece of paper doesn't change that, although it does protect you and any children financially should your long-term partner whom you are not married to simply walk out one day. And it does provide security in case of death. But that's down to society and should probably be challenged.
Coming late to this, but anyway... why does buying a dress for yourself have to be a stand in for a wedding dress? Why can't you just buy a nice dress because you work, have the money and want it? Isn't the whole point of supporting yourself being able to buy/do whatever the hell you want with your money?
Incidently, for those of you worried about having someone "approve" your purchases when you get married - I've never asked my husband for permission to buy myself something or felt in any way that I needed to justify a purchase. As long as the bills are paid and we've put a certain amount in savings, the money is there for the spending, for each of us. We'll discuss big purchases that are considered for "us" because that's just repectful. But, buying clothes? A new purse? Not a big deal. We both work, we both make money, we both get to spend it.
@GlinCastleGirl: hurrah thank you for saying what i tried to say but much better. I don't see what this you suddenly stop having your own money when you marry thing is. I earn my money and once my husband and I have made the rent, the bills and our debt payments plus child related stuff what's left is ours to spend individually however we please. i've never ever ever asked my husband's permission to buy something, it simply doesn't cross my mind that I'd have to. If I did then surely my salary would cease to be mine? And that seems a bit self-defeating.
@GlinCastleGirl: I'm one of the people who made the comment about being able to buy what you want as a single, and I was really being glib. In truth, all of my married friends buy the kinds of things you're talking about without "approval" from their husbands.
On the other hand, just a few weeks ago, I was talking to one of my dearest friends and she was telling me that she and her husband were having a disagreement about the decor for their upcoming new baby's room. She really wanted to buy a certain set of sheets that she loved and he was unsure. That was one of those occasions where I said to her "And here is where being single is an advantage!" (And she, knowing me well, took it in the spirit in which it was offered.)
@doodley is not amused: ha I like your comment to her, it made me laugh. Luckily my husband and I had no issues with this as he held no opinion on interior design of any kind. Baby names on the other hand, oh that was hell - if ever there was a time I wanted to be single... Although it was sorted out in the end (god knows what will happen if this current fetus is a boy though as that's where the main problems lie).
Have to say that being married hasn't stopped me spending money when I feel like it on pricey objects. Why is that? Because it's still my money, being married didn't oddly mean I handed my salary over to the husband police.
This is a judgement-free zone, is it not? So I'm going to say something super-hateful and materialistic here.
I am going to die alone. No man is ever going to marry me. (I'm kidding.) (Not really.)
So how do you think it makes me feel when my girlfriends get married and register for a houseful of crap? To hell with having a husband; Where's my Kitchenaid, huh? Where are my All-Clad pans? Just because I'm going to be alone forever doesn't mean I don't want a cot-damn Cuisinart.
So when I eventually buy a place of my own, you can believe I'm going to have the biggest housewarming party in the world, and I'm going to go crazy with the scanner gun at Bed Bath and Beyond.
You know what? You deserve to have good pots and pans, dishes, whatever, even if you're single. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise! Ask for these things for birthdays, holidays, whatever. I bought myself a Cuisinart one year. I have a KitchenAid, but that was a gift from my mom.
(Actually, now that I think about it, back in the day I knew a single woman in her mid-20s who bought herself an entire set of Wedgwood china.)
@doodley is not amused: You know what? You deserve to have good pots and pans, dishes, whatever, even if you're single. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise! Ask for these things for birthdays, holidays, whatever. I bought myself a Cuisinart one year. I have a KitchenAid, but that was a gift from my mom.
AMEN. Shit, I cook now. I have guests now. I need cookware, dishes and appliances right now. Also, I'm choosy as hell and even though most of what I own is way inexpensive, most of it isn't from anywhere that has a registry and I'm not cool with settling OR asking people to go out of their way to buy me anything when I have a job of my own. If I ever get married, I will have everything I could possibly need to entertain by then. Give me a break.
ever hear the Chris Rock joke that 'men don't settle down, they surrender'. I hate how women are often stereotyped as the sex that wants to be married so badly/desperate to settle down. There are tons of guys like this out there, a la the guy who says i love you after the second date.
in a capitalist, wedding-mad, home-ownership obsessed society, what else can an unmarried woman do do feel like, you know, she's done something for herself?
Invest wisely and learn to do something you've always wanted to learn to do?
I mean, when I think about having a fulfilling life on my own, I don't think about all the things I want to buy -- I think about all the things I want to do. Attend a writing workshop in the Hamptons this summer! Take a class where I can learn to make my own shoes! Sit on my couch tonight, wearing pajamas and eating really delicious homemade veggie stir-fry with mint chocolate chip ice cream for dessert while watching American Idol! I feel like I've done something for myself when I've done something for myself, not when I've bought something for myself.
(Of course, this is from the girl who just impulse-bought a Kooba bag because it was 50% off.)
@doodley is not amused: do people have to justify it to people when not single? Why?
@egg cream: I liked your post. I agree but I also think that should you marry that shouldn't mean that you stop doing things for yourself. Subsuming yourself entirely in marriage and family is not necessarily a good thing.
what else can an unmarried woman do do feel like, you know, she's done something for herself?
Well, speaking as an unmarried woman of a certain age, I can tell you what I did: I sat down, took stock of my life, figured out what I wanted and what I could control, and then I went out and made it work.
I grew up believing I'd be married with kids by my mid-to-late 20s. Today, I have no idea where I got this notion, and I have never been pressured by my parents about marriage. However, where I grew up, that's what most girls did, and I think I just assumed it would be the same for me. I don't know why, because I'd never really followed the path that others.
Anyway, I passed that benchmark, and then 30, then 31, then 32, and I realized that marriage was something over which I had no control. I hadn't met the right man and, as many others have articulated, I wasn't looking to be married just for the sake of being married. And then I realized that the part I was really mourning was the fact that I wanted to be a mother. I could get married in my 40s, 50s, whatever, but there was a window of opportunity for motherhood, and I needed to climb through it. So, I did.
That's not the answer for everyone. I have single friends who started their own businesses, focused on travel, moved overseas, whatever. It's about taking control of the parts of your life that you can control. I have one friend who is in her 50s and isn't married and she still sees herself as a failure. I love her, but that's not what I want for myself.
Would I still like to be married? Probably, if I can find a man with whom I am compatible. On the other hand, as I tell people often, there is a lot to be said for being the only adult in my house: I have control of the remote (after the pumpkin's bedtime), I can buy whatever I want and don't have to justify it, there's no dividing the holidays between families, and I had 100% say in what I named my kid.
Sorry this is long, but this is a topic that sticks in my craw.
Also, for you singles who want kids, you can do it on your own, if that's what you want!
It's not to say that single-momdom is the easiest thing ever, and there are definitely times I'd like another adult in my house -- especially when I'm trying to get my daughter into bed and she doesn't want to go. But, I am here to tell you that you can do it. You just have to make the decision to go for it, realize that you'll be giving up some things that you might have if you were childless (I don't travel as much as I would like to, for example), and know that your house may never be clean again. That last one might just be me, though.
Also, and I should have said this before, none of this is to diminish the role of men in a child's life. I am fortunate to have an awesome father and brother as well as several close male friends who adore my daughter. She, in turn, thinks they (especially her Grandpa) hung the stars.
I can't imagine how bad the pressure must be for single people. i'm in a long term commited relationship (5 years) and the amount of questions we get about things that AREN'T OTHER PEOPLES BUSINESS makes me crazy. everyone is always asking when we are getting married. and the answer is NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS. I can't imagine how bad the baby/marriage questions would be if i was still single. especially since everyone i know is getting married. everytime i'm on facebook, some one else is engaged and/or having a baby. why can't people just be happy when you are happy, single or not? isn't that what really matters? i hate the assumption that you can't be happy if you are single, unmarried, or childless or any combination of the 3.
Isn't it weird that during college, being in a long-term relationship garnered a lot of "aww, good for you guys!" or "that's so sweet!" comments, but right when we graduate it's "well, why aren't you engaged/married yet?!"
It makes me crazy that other people think they know what's best for me and my relationship. In actuality, us getting married right now would put so much financial strain on us that we'd probably end up divorced within a year.
So you stay unmarried and baby-less for as long as you want to. I'm right there with you.
The whole sharing of finances thing is one reason that I'm putting off getting married for at least another five years even though my bf and I have been together forever. I am just so not ready to incur his student loan debt or have to have a pow-wow before buying something nice for myself.
A lot of my friends and family think it's weird, but having my own money and being able to make my own decisions about it is extremely important to me, so society can suck it.
To me, the only difference between dude bachelors and girl bachelors is that guys can wait to have biological kids until much later in life if they feel like it.
The only reason you should feel pressure about getting married (if you're a girl) is if you want to have biological babies only after you're married, and you worry about having babies late.
I think that's a legitimate logistical worry, but any worries beyond that don't make much sense to me.
@HereComesMyBaby: And if you're not really set on bio-babies, it's all the easier. My dad was adopted, so I'm clearly very open to it if I choose to introduce a bebeh into my life.
I'm getting a little tired of the "fabulous single" thing. I mean, none of the single women I know are all that concerned with shoe shopping and going to bars and clubs and such. Most of them are more interested in their jobs and going back to school and yes, going out sometimes to do awful karaoke and booze it up. But there's a balance. It's quite different-at least in my experience- than the SATC stereotype. When I was single, my life revolved around work, my guy-and-girl friends, going to dive bars when my friends' band was playing, and pursuing my own interests, i.e. reading a lot, watching cartoons, going to the pool, being lazy etc. I wasn't trying to create this whirlwind socialite experience for myself. In fact it was the opposite: I enjoyed myself. Plenty of alone time, which I miss now that I'm in a relationship. I did whatever the eff I felt like doing, and it was great. I wasn't pining for anything or anyone, I didn't want any more than what I had. It was freedom and yeah, sometimes it got lonely, but not very often. Sometimes I bought things for myself just because I wanted to, but I still do that now. My consumer habits have not changed all that much, except, of course, that I'm unemployed. Gah.
Everyone's different. I just think this Carrie Bradshaw mold is getting a little tiresome these days.
I feel like I can't comment on this post because I'm part of the evil crowd that is getting married/married.
But, I still buy things for myself...I work hard so I'm allowed to spend my money as I please. Do I run out and buy a fancy dress or expensive shoes? No. Because you don't wear those kinds of things when you're bar crawling on Market Street. Jean and a t-shirt and sense able pair of flats work just as well.
I was one of those people who swore that she'd never get married. I had no desire. I still don't wish for the big wedding or the fancy dress, we're getting court house married like a good Military couple. And I'm 100% ok with that. But, I've never felt like there was ever any pressure on me to be married. Granted I'm only shy of 25 so maybe it's different. But I do have a child, and had a child before I got engaged. But, no one ever asked me "When are you getting married!?!?" it just wasn't something we (my friends/family) we ever really concerned about. Nor did I ever feel like my life was going to end if I was destined to be a single mommy for the rest of my life. I was ok with that.
@..now it's just Aesop's Foibles.: I was just chewing on this. I've loudly bitched here before that I felt like I needed to apologize for being married and being okay with that, and that I take umbrage to the widespread assumption that I have to clear major--or minor--purchases with my husband before proceeding. The truth is that I have a great deal more autonomy now than I did when I was single, and that not every man, or every marriage, is the same. These blanket comments about the evils of marriage, or the sheer awesomeness of singlehood, are profoundly irritating. I don't need to think my life is perfect this way. There are advantages on either side. But I have a right to be happy, and to feel fortunate, that I found someone.
I am an unmarried woman. Although I would like it if I met a wonderful man and wanted to marry him, I don't feel the lack of a husband in my life. And I am buying myself something audaciously expensive for my 40th birthday in 2010.
@picardia: Rock on. I was hoping to accomplish that by 30, but it looks like it will need to wait while I pay off some things. Congrats on homeownership!
I hope no one, even those who enjoy spending money, thinks that spending money is the only way for people to accomplish something. Two milestones I hope to achieve in the next ten years: pay off my student debt and visit all major continents. Granted those take money, but the money is not the focus.
@zigzagandwhatnot: I have similar goals. I'm just working to save so I can pay off debts and, after that, spend my money on traveling. Okay, and perhaps a cute little place with a big garden and a large kitchen.
@zigzagandwhatnot: But both of those take money, so you're still spending money to accomplish something.
Don't get me wrong, paying off debt and traveling are my exact goals as well, and I totally dig valuing experiences over things, but it all costs money, you know? Maybe for someone who bought an expensive dress, money wasn't the focus for her either. Maybe she just wanted to feel nice in an expensive dress. :P
@citrus buddha: Disagree. Money spent on traveling and education is money spent to better yourself and gain experiences. Money spent on a fancy dress, while making you feel nice, is just money spent on material goods.
@WhineAndCheese: I agree with you. I'm just wary of looking down on women who spend money on material goods. So what? If it makes her feel good, if it's her own hard earned money, if it supports the economy, why is it harmful to us? We can pack our backpacks and head off to Cambodia, and she can have her shoes. I don't think it necessarily sets a harmful precedent, especially because travel is frequently much, much more expensive and priveleged than simply purchasing material goods.
@citrus buddha: I agree with you. And a lot of people who buy 700 dollar shoes also probably travel. As someone who has lived years abroad, many in pretty unique "hardship" locations, I value these type of experiences more than material things, but that doesn't stop me from also wanting those shoes up top and spending money on glitzy cocktail frocks. People want deep experiences and superficial items all the time, I don't think it warrants a condescending attitude.
@citrus buddha: Thank- you for saying this!!! For some people, a material purchase is FAR cheaper than travel will ever be. A large majority of women who buy dresses or shoes, are not buying dresses or shoes that cost as much as a plane ticket!!! Very often, they may buy a small material item once or twice a year in order to feel better (or bc they have something to attend- imagine that)....Many women work jobs that allow them to pretty much pay for obligations. The only reason I can travel anywhere is because I don't have a husband or kids (especially kids). Not everybody can pony up $2000-$3000 per person to just jaunt off somewhere- especially if you're situated in the U.States, and you want to travel abroad. For a lot of people, that cost is incredibly expensive. (Sorry for the longwinded rant. I'm just sick of people who act like everybody can just go to the airport & fly halfway around the world, like it's cheap.)
@citrus buddha: It will be a cold day in hell when I decide I want to backpack through Cambodia. To me, traveling involves a hotel (NOT a hostel), and that's frickin expensive. So for now, material goods it is.
@oh.geez.: Word. I love to travel. But even expensive dresses and shoes are cheaper than that! So I travel when I can and buy pretty things when travel is not feasible.
03/04/09
Maybe the whole world is different for NY women? Is it really that much more like SATC? Or is it just a very small segment of society?(my guess is the last one)
03/04/09
I think I must be confused - am I nesting as part of my desperate search for a man, or am I comforting myself with material goods? Help me, ladies!
03/04/09
Why on earth would you marry ( unless you are a golddigger so basically its your job)?
03/04/09
03/04/09
And . . .
No, that's all I've got. Health insurance.
03/04/09
03/04/09
Ultimately I don't think there should be pressure one way or the other. Marry or don't. The relationship is what counts and a piece of paper doesn't change that, although it does protect you and any children financially should your long-term partner whom you are not married to simply walk out one day. And it does provide security in case of death. But that's down to society and should probably be challenged.
03/04/09
Incidently, for those of you worried about having someone "approve" your purchases when you get married - I've never asked my husband for permission to buy myself something or felt in any way that I needed to justify a purchase. As long as the bills are paid and we've put a certain amount in savings, the money is there for the spending, for each of us. We'll discuss big purchases that are considered for "us" because that's just repectful. But, buying clothes? A new purse? Not a big deal. We both work, we both make money, we both get to spend it.
03/04/09
03/04/09
On the other hand, just a few weeks ago, I was talking to one of my dearest friends and she was telling me that she and her husband were having a disagreement about the decor for their upcoming new baby's room. She really wanted to buy a certain set of sheets that she loved and he was unsure. That was one of those occasions where I said to her "And here is where being single is an advantage!" (And she, knowing me well, took it in the spirit in which it was offered.)
03/04/09
03/04/09
03/04/09
I am going to die alone. No man is ever going to marry me. (I'm kidding.) (Not really.)
So how do you think it makes me feel when my girlfriends get married and register for a houseful of crap? To hell with having a husband; Where's my Kitchenaid, huh? Where are my All-Clad pans? Just because I'm going to be alone forever doesn't mean I don't want a cot-damn Cuisinart.
So when I eventually buy a place of my own, you can believe I'm going to have the biggest housewarming party in the world, and I'm going to go crazy with the scanner gun at Bed Bath and Beyond.
03/04/09
You know what? You deserve to have good pots and pans, dishes, whatever, even if you're single. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise! Ask for these things for birthdays, holidays, whatever. I bought myself a Cuisinart one year. I have a KitchenAid, but that was a gift from my mom.
(Actually, now that I think about it, back in the day I knew a single woman in her mid-20s who bought herself an entire set of Wedgwood china.)
03/04/09
AMEN. Shit, I cook now. I have guests now. I need cookware, dishes and appliances right now. Also, I'm choosy as hell and even though most of what I own is way inexpensive, most of it isn't from anywhere that has a registry and I'm not cool with settling OR asking people to go out of their way to buy me anything when I have a job of my own. If I ever get married, I will have everything I could possibly need to entertain by then. Give me a break.
03/04/09
03/04/09
Invest wisely and learn to do something you've always wanted to learn to do?
I mean, when I think about having a fulfilling life on my own, I don't think about all the things I want to buy -- I think about all the things I want to do. Attend a writing workshop in the Hamptons this summer! Take a class where I can learn to make my own shoes! Sit on my couch tonight, wearing pajamas and eating really delicious homemade veggie stir-fry with mint chocolate chip ice cream for dessert while watching American Idol! I feel like I've done something for myself when I've done something for myself, not when I've bought something for myself.
(Of course, this is from the girl who just impulse-bought a Kooba bag because it was 50% off.)
03/04/09
(Of course, this is from the girl who just impulse-bought a Kooba bag because it was 50% off.)
And didn't have to justify it to anyone. One of the many perks of being single!
03/04/09
03/04/09
@egg cream: I liked your post. I agree but I also think that should you marry that shouldn't mean that you stop doing things for yourself. Subsuming yourself entirely in marriage and family is not necessarily a good thing.
03/04/09
Well, speaking as an unmarried woman of a certain age, I can tell you what I did: I sat down, took stock of my life, figured out what I wanted and what I could control, and then I went out and made it work.
I grew up believing I'd be married with kids by my mid-to-late 20s. Today, I have no idea where I got this notion, and I have never been pressured by my parents about marriage. However, where I grew up, that's what most girls did, and I think I just assumed it would be the same for me. I don't know why, because I'd never really followed the path that others.
Anyway, I passed that benchmark, and then 30, then 31, then 32, and I realized that marriage was something over which I had no control. I hadn't met the right man and, as many others have articulated, I wasn't looking to be married just for the sake of being married. And then I realized that the part I was really mourning was the fact that I wanted to be a mother. I could get married in my 40s, 50s, whatever, but there was a window of opportunity for motherhood, and I needed to climb through it. So, I did.
That's not the answer for everyone. I have single friends who started their own businesses, focused on travel, moved overseas, whatever. It's about taking control of the parts of your life that you can control. I have one friend who is in her 50s and isn't married and she still sees herself as a failure. I love her, but that's not what I want for myself.
Would I still like to be married? Probably, if I can find a man with whom I am compatible. On the other hand, as I tell people often, there is a lot to be said for being the only adult in my house: I have control of the remote (after the pumpkin's bedtime), I can buy whatever I want and don't have to justify it, there's no dividing the holidays between families, and I had 100% say in what I named my kid.
Sorry this is long, but this is a topic that sticks in my craw.
Also, for you singles who want kids, you can do it on your own, if that's what you want!
03/04/09
Seriously, you are now officially my idol because that is exactly what I want in a few years.
03/04/09
It's not to say that single-momdom is the easiest thing ever, and there are definitely times I'd like another adult in my house -- especially when I'm trying to get my daughter into bed and she doesn't want to go. But, I am here to tell you that you can do it. You just have to make the decision to go for it, realize that you'll be giving up some things that you might have if you were childless (I don't travel as much as I would like to, for example), and know that your house may never be clean again. That last one might just be me, though.
Also, and I should have said this before, none of this is to diminish the role of men in a child's life. I am fortunate to have an awesome father and brother as well as several close male friends who adore my daughter. She, in turn, thinks they (especially her Grandpa) hung the stars.
03/04/09
03/04/09
Isn't it weird that during college, being in a long-term relationship garnered a lot of "aww, good for you guys!" or "that's so sweet!" comments, but right when we graduate it's "well, why aren't you engaged/married yet?!"
It makes me crazy that other people think they know what's best for me and my relationship. In actuality, us getting married right now would put so much financial strain on us that we'd probably end up divorced within a year.
So you stay unmarried and baby-less for as long as you want to. I'm right there with you.
03/04/09
A lot of my friends and family think it's weird, but having my own money and being able to make my own decisions about it is extremely important to me, so society can suck it.
03/04/09
Been there. Done that. Been fucked over.
No thank you.
03/04/09
The only reason you should feel pressure about getting married (if you're a girl) is if you want to have biological babies only after you're married, and you worry about having babies late.
I think that's a legitimate logistical worry, but any worries beyond that don't make much sense to me.
03/04/09
03/04/09
Everyone's different. I just think this Carrie Bradshaw mold is getting a little tiresome these days.
03/04/09
03/04/09
Reason #8734734 why I hate SATC.
I completely agree with everything you said.
I feel like I can't comment on this post because I'm part of the evil crowd that is getting married/married.
But, I still buy things for myself...I work hard so I'm allowed to spend my money as I please. Do I run out and buy a fancy dress or expensive shoes? No. Because you don't wear those kinds of things when you're bar crawling on Market Street. Jean and a t-shirt and sense able pair of flats work just as well.
I was one of those people who swore that she'd never get married. I had no desire. I still don't wish for the big wedding or the fancy dress, we're getting court house married like a good Military couple. And I'm 100% ok with that. But, I've never felt like there was ever any pressure on me to be married. Granted I'm only shy of 25 so maybe it's different. But I do have a child, and had a child before I got engaged. But, no one ever asked me "When are you getting married!?!?" it just wasn't something we (my friends/family) we ever really concerned about. Nor did I ever feel like my life was going to end if I was destined to be a single mommy for the rest of my life. I was ok with that.
03/04/09
03/04/09
03/04/09
It's called A HOUSE.
03/04/09
03/04/09
03/04/09
03/04/09
Don't get me wrong, paying off debt and traveling are my exact goals as well, and I totally dig valuing experiences over things, but it all costs money, you know? Maybe for someone who bought an expensive dress, money wasn't the focus for her either. Maybe she just wanted to feel nice in an expensive dress. :P
03/04/09
03/04/09
03/04/09
03/04/09
(Sorry for the longwinded rant. I'm just sick of people who act like everybody can just go to the airport & fly halfway around the world, like it's cheap.)
03/04/09
03/04/09