I'm going to go out on a limb to say that my dad has taken a different strategy to parenting. The other day he said, "You were skinny all through high school, then suddenly you turned twenty and you got HUGE!" I'm 5'5 and weigh 128lbs. I don't come to him for body validation.
Edited by sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell at 08/25/09 5:11 PM
sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell was starred
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My dad gets forever awesome cred for, not only buying pads for me when I was in high school, but for buying the bulk pack of overnight maxis. And for trusting me with $100,000 farm equipment.
@Lady Skittlehattington: Word. My dad didn't trust me with expensive farm equipment (but he did let me make big decisions on the house he built) but buying pads and tampons means a lot, y'know?
My mom didn't die when I was very young (I was 17) but still...it was enough to fuck me up and he was very supportive even though he couldn't fix it.
@shorty63136: Seriously, right? There was something very comforting about the fact that I could write pads on the grocery list, and he would get them without making a huge deal about it.
If my parents hid fashion magazines from me I would want them more. If I never read Vogue though middle and high school, I wouldn't be on the career path I am now.
I don't think hiding them is the way to do it. If they have an interest in reading them, let them, but make sure to reinforce that they're fine the way they are and models are "hangers", nothing to look up to.
it bothers me that people are still so surprised that fathers can be good parents. is the world that screwed up that most dads aren't? or is that a myth, much like other genderized myths in popular culture?
my dad was AMAZING. my grandma likes to tell the story how she told my sister and i that we looked beautiful (when we were really little) and he took her aside later and asked that she not focus on giving us compliments that highlight looks, because he didn't want us to learn to value appearances above all else like smarts and wiles.
he also combed the tangles out of my hair when i managed to get accidental dreadlocks, and had father-daughter talks with me in the car while driving me home to my mom's (divorced), and picked me up from college and drove me to new york when i graduated, and always believed in me.
lets start giving dads some credit. i just don't believe that the majority are inept buffoons.
@alibabathieves: I don't think people are surprised i just don't think it's talked about often enough. Too many movies and ads portray dads as bumbling inept idiots that are unable to partake in childraising activites because i guess that's what they want us to believe. There are probably tons of great dad stories as we can see from this thread that we haven't heard because it's not told often. There are as much awesome Dads as there are awesome moms plain and simple.
You know, I was just distracted. Really. Bob Sagat? Really? Really? Granted it's his role from Full House, but after witnessing the storm that is his standup I can't think of anything else.
@Theomeny: Funny, javing grown up with Danny Tanner, his stand-up always strikes me as a dorky guy trying to hard. I know he was the filthy comic first, but its not how I first knew him.
I'm really not sure why a single dad even has fashion magazines to hide, but I think keeping kids away from fashion magazines is pretty unimportant for building good body image. I think porn is a lot more problematic than fashion magazines, but I'd imagine this dad already has those under lock and key.
I do think that it is very, very, very important for fathers not to criticize their daughter's looks. I know way too many girls who are still holding on to chubby comments their father made 10 years ago, even if they were simple one time comments that might have had more to do with the father's shock that his little girl was becoming a woman.
The other thing that I think is important is for dad's to not talk about which women they find attractive and unattractive in front of their children (male or female). This includes the child's mother. I was actually kind of shocked as an adult when I found out how many dads were commenting on Mom's body or Britney Spears body in front of their kids. It speaks of male entitlement to think that anyone, never mind your kids, cares that you wanted to screw Kirstie Alley before she got all fat.
@clevernamehere: On the other hand, it can be a positive thing for a girl to know that her dad finds her mom attractive, or that he has had crushes on a variety of women -- it goes back to the whole "it's equally important for her to know that not all men think she's supposed to look like a model" thing. A comment like "I would have screwed Kirstie Alley before she got all fat" may "speak of male entitlement," but that's because it's misogynistic and shallow, not because it's about attraction.
@clevernamehere: I like most of what you say here, except for the part where you think Dad should never let the kids know he finds Mom attractive. I think that should be a part of the adult-life modelling that is parenthood. Your kids should know you love them, and that you love each other (if you do, obvs). They should learn from Mom and Dad's example that healthy adult love involves affection and attraction, as well as constructive disagreement.
@egg cream is here, is second tier, get used to it: I have no problem with a father saying his wife is beautiful. But if he's constantly going on about it, it can make a girl think beauty = value.
Obviously a kid is going to overhear some husband/wife conversations and the tone of those is important. An odd "You look gorgeous!" as they head out for a date night is different than regularly talking about Mommy's looks in front of the kids.
I wish changes of mentality didn't have to come this way for many men, I mean, with the death of a spouse. But it is commendable that he has seen everything under a new light and given a lot of thought to so many things. And is both sad and admirable that being left alone with his child was such an eye-opening experience about changing his own paradigms and watching the world, and how it treats women, differently.
I really needed to read something like this, if only because I had to (I really had to! for work!) read a rather annoying piece in People mag by Jerry O'Connell, about being a father to his twin daughters. Yeah, I know is Jerry O'Connell and depth, insight or clarity were off the table in advance, but seriously, it was so full of idiotic clichés about relationships between Daddies and their little girls! Their very special moments! and OMG, everything is pink in my house now, and I'll have to read Judy Blume and watch Twilight! Little girls wear dresses, and they give their daddies very special attention! Ugh.
@Casquivana: I was also struck by how it was his wife's passing and his resulting single-parent status that lead him to "think differently about everything," and not the birth of his daughter in the first place. Like, as long as his wife was alive it was her primarily her responsibility to shape his daughter's psyche and self-esteem, and it was only after she was gone that he felt the weight of that responsibility. I honestly don't mean to take away from this man's story; I just wish I saw more stories about attitudes like this from men whose wives are still around.
@Casquivana: I thought the Jerry O'Connell piece was actually really sweet. Sure, he and his wife have bought into "Girls want to be princesses, even when they are 6 months old!" But he is also splitting primary parenting duties with his wife, switching off while she works. I'm sure he'll learn that not all girls are the same once they start talking.
The Biggest Loser host annoyed me way more. Your 8 month old baby liking sparkly dresses is not a product of her vagina. I'm sure you son would have liked sparkly clothes at 8 months if you'd offered them to him.
my dad should write an essay on how not to build girls' self esteem.
here are 2 tidbits:
i was pondering chopping off my lovely long hair when i was about 10. my dad's fatherly advice?--"boys don't like girls with short hair. if you ever want boys to like you, don't cut off your hair."
and how about that ever comical first period? i'm at the mall of america with only my dad and brother. i go to the bathroom and discover my magical first period has begun. i am 12, i don't have a cent on me, so i go out and ask my dad for a quarter. he tells me i shouldn't eat candy. so our conversation goes like this:
"dad, i'm getting my period. i need to buy a pad."
"no, you're not"
"yes i am, i need a quarter because pads cost a quarter"
"THIS CAN'T BE HAPPENING WHY IS THIS HAPPENING TO ME YOU CAN'T BE OH MY GOD!"
he wouldn't go to the walmart next to the hotel we stayed to buy a package of pads and instead insisted i buy them as needed from the machine in the hotel (the water-proof pillow-style 'pads'). we stayed 2 more days and nights and i leaked through my clothes every day, leaked on the sheets, it was mortifying.
so no seriously, he needs to write a book on how to completely destroy a little girl's self esteem! please tell me someone else has stories like this!
@fjordtjie: When my mom was a teenager, my grandma almost died. My grandpa took his kids into a room and said that their mother was going to die and it was no use praying because God told him it was going to happen and that my mother would be taking over my grandma's housework and cooking responsibilities. He then berated her to tears when she stacked wet cups and they vacuum sealed themselves and only an IDIOT doesn't know that.
He was not exactly a warm and squishy man and was actually rather a prick until he was well into his 60s. God rest his soul.
@fjordtjie: David Sedaris has a story in Naked about his sister Lisa getting her first period on a golf course during a compulsory family outing, and his golf-obsessed father being so single-minded with his game that he pawned her off on a random lady golfer. Lisa only spent an entire afternoon in discomfort compared to your epic tale (so sorry what your Dad put you through! that's crazy) but you will perhaps identify with her, and the story is a good, wry read and ends with a note of defiance on the part of Lisa, so you might like it.
@fjordtjie: That is really shitty. My dad didn't want to go to Disney World because "how will it make us better people?" He also loved to play mind games with my mom and it kind of oozed into the whole family dynamic, to where we did go to Disney World, but I wanted to stay in my room most of the time because the rides scared me, and he got pissed about that.
We have a better relationship now, but I attribute that largely to me no longer having to live in the same house. I haven't since high school, when my mom finally left him.
@Zombie Ms. Skittles: Funny, my dad always insisted that I keep my hair short. He said it was so people could seem my "beautiful blue eyes" but I think it is because he wanted to keep the boys away from me.
One of my daughter's major teen epiphanies came when we bought Photoshop for the household and she messed around with it a bit on some of her own phone pics of herself and friends. Then she took out her Teen Vogue and checked out all the pictures. And then she spent the next few days pointing out to me all the places where the young models had been Photoshopped into skinny alien beings with a vague resemblance to humans.
DH and I had been constantly telling her this stuff, but of course it was all just parental background noise to her. She had to figure it out for herself.
She still likes clothes, bags and shoes, but THANK GOD she has stopped comparing herself to the models who hawk them.
That's exactly what I needed today. It gave me the warm fuzzies.
It makes me think of all the dudes I know and try to figure out how each one will be as a parent. There are a couple in particular who I think will make amazing dads someday. Makes me a little happier for the human race before I have to go back to the rest of the world.
Hopefully, since he thinks his wife had Marfan syndrome, he'll get his daughter tested. That way, if she's put on beta blockers it can reduce any chances of problems with her aorta. I found out I had Marfans several years ago after my dad almost died from an aortic aneurysm. As long as you take care of yourself, it's not *that* bad to live with. I'm not particularly athletic, so I was happy to get out of gym class!
Wow, Jezebel, wtf on all the stuff that tears me to pieces today? Von Booys makes such a poignant statement here.
WRT to my last comment on the shaming thread... no one thinks I am smarter or more capable, and yes, prettier than my dad. Unlike my other parent, it is my dad who was the preacher of feminist thought, and the parent that never stopped encouraging me professionally and personally. I owe a lot to that man. He is full of faults, but I feel fortunate that he is who he is.
Yes, the heteronormative daddy/princess thing I too find troubling in a general sense, but for me personally my father is a much loved, imperfect hero.
@SomeAuthorGirl: My mom was hardly ever critical about my appearance, but whenever she said anything remotely bad about my outfit or hair, my dad always told her to leave me alone. He was always paranoid that I might worry about my weight and emphasized that I could be anything I wanted to be. He sometimes took it to the extreme (like saying I could be Michael Jordan even though I am short and uncoordinated).
@SomeAuthorGirl: I feel like my dad played a really big part in my healthy self-esteem as well, just by encouraging me in ways that had nothing to do with my appearance. I don't think he ever spoke to us about our looks at all. He would compliment my mother on her looks, but much more frequently he would talk about the other things he loved about my mom that had to do with her brain and not her appearance. That may have been the most effective way he showed us that women are more than just pretty to look at. Man, I feel lucky to have my dad.
@mipsy6: My dad was the same way. I'm struggling to remember any time he's said anything about my looks, but I can think of hundreds of times that he's praised me for how well I've done in school or for succeeding at something I worked hard on. I think I've done pretty well, self-esteem-wise over the years. (My mom is similar, so she deserves credit, too!)
@JessaFields: Exactly! My dad never had much to say about my looks, but he has one phrase that he whips out every time I need any kind of encouragement: "you are smart, funny, and capable." It never fails to make me feel at least a little bit better. I'd rather hear about what I can do than how I look.
However, every time I complained that I didn't feel good he would always answer "but you *look* good!"
@mipsy6: I think the only times my dad commented on my looks were before dances and my wedding, and only to tell me I was beautiful, for which I am strangely grateful. He spent much more time teaching me how to drive, how to make a free throw, how to bake a cake, telling me that my boyfriend was an idiot, and making me listen to Frank Sinatra.
@Ri_L: Yeah, I don't think I ever remember my dad commenting on my looks in any way. I don't get to see him that often (foreign service, I'm a grad student, divorced parents--it comes to like 4 times a year), but every time I do he makes a point of saying how proud he is of me and my sister. It's really sweet. He's always been the one doing maths with me when I was little, taking me around museums, buying me books upon books--encouraging me in all the things I loved to do. I never felt the tiniest bit of pressure to be anything other than I was.
What I mean to say is: I think differently now about everything.
That, I think, is the crux of what it means to have children, really. It shifts your perspective in unimaginable ways.
While do I sometimes get annoyed by hearty back patting for men who, frankly, are doing what they should be doing, I did find him likable. I felt like he was simply sharing a story, not asking for accolades.
And, the thought of any recently widowed parent sitting with his/her child the night after a spouse dies just makes me super sad. It is funny, however, how certain movies can be soothing in times of pain. Mine is Little Women.
08/25/09
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My mom didn't die when I was very young (I was 17) but still...it was enough to fuck me up and he was very supportive even though he couldn't fix it.
08/25/09
08/25/09
I don't think hiding them is the way to do it. If they have an interest in reading them, let them, but make sure to reinforce that they're fine the way they are and models are "hangers", nothing to look up to.
08/25/09
my dad was AMAZING. my grandma likes to tell the story how she told my sister and i that we looked beautiful (when we were really little) and he took her aside later and asked that she not focus on giving us compliments that highlight looks, because he didn't want us to learn to value appearances above all else like smarts and wiles.
he also combed the tangles out of my hair when i managed to get accidental dreadlocks, and had father-daughter talks with me in the car while driving me home to my mom's (divorced), and picked me up from college and drove me to new york when i graduated, and always believed in me.
lets start giving dads some credit. i just don't believe that the majority are inept buffoons.
08/25/09
08/25/09
08/25/09
08/25/09
I do think that it is very, very, very important for fathers not to criticize their daughter's looks. I know way too many girls who are still holding on to chubby comments their father made 10 years ago, even if they were simple one time comments that might have had more to do with the father's shock that his little girl was becoming a woman.
The other thing that I think is important is for dad's to not talk about which women they find attractive and unattractive in front of their children (male or female). This includes the child's mother. I was actually kind of shocked as an adult when I found out how many dads were commenting on Mom's body or Britney Spears body in front of their kids. It speaks of male entitlement to think that anyone, never mind your kids, cares that you wanted to screw Kirstie Alley before she got all fat.
08/25/09
08/25/09
08/25/09
Obviously a kid is going to overhear some husband/wife conversations and the tone of those is important. An odd "You look gorgeous!" as they head out for a date night is different than regularly talking about Mommy's looks in front of the kids.
08/25/09
I really needed to read something like this, if only because I had to (I really had to! for work!) read a rather annoying piece in People mag by Jerry O'Connell, about being a father to his twin daughters. Yeah, I know is Jerry O'Connell and depth, insight or clarity were off the table in advance, but seriously, it was so full of idiotic clichés about relationships between Daddies and their little girls! Their very special moments! and OMG, everything is pink in my house now, and I'll have to read Judy Blume and watch Twilight! Little girls wear dresses, and they give their daddies very special attention! Ugh.
08/25/09
08/25/09
The Biggest Loser host annoyed me way more. Your 8 month old baby liking sparkly dresses is not a product of her vagina. I'm sure you son would have liked sparkly clothes at 8 months if you'd offered them to him.
08/25/09
here are 2 tidbits:
i was pondering chopping off my lovely long hair when i was about 10. my dad's fatherly advice?--"boys don't like girls with short hair. if you ever want boys to like you, don't cut off your hair."
and how about that ever comical first period? i'm at the mall of america with only my dad and brother. i go to the bathroom and discover my magical first period has begun. i am 12, i don't have a cent on me, so i go out and ask my dad for a quarter. he tells me i shouldn't eat candy. so our conversation goes like this:
"dad, i'm getting my period. i need to buy a pad."
"no, you're not"
"yes i am, i need a quarter because pads cost a quarter"
"THIS CAN'T BE HAPPENING WHY IS THIS HAPPENING TO ME YOU CAN'T BE OH MY GOD!"
he wouldn't go to the walmart next to the hotel we stayed to buy a package of pads and instead insisted i buy them as needed from the machine in the hotel (the water-proof pillow-style 'pads'). we stayed 2 more days and nights and i leaked through my clothes every day, leaked on the sheets, it was mortifying.
so no seriously, he needs to write a book on how to completely destroy a little girl's self esteem! please tell me someone else has stories like this!
08/25/09
He was not exactly a warm and squishy man and was actually rather a prick until he was well into his 60s. God rest his soul.
08/25/09
08/25/09
08/25/09
08/25/09
We have a better relationship now, but I attribute that largely to me no longer having to live in the same house. I haven't since high school, when my mom finally left him.
08/25/09
08/25/09
DH and I had been constantly telling her this stuff, but of course it was all just parental background noise to her. She had to figure it out for herself.
She still likes clothes, bags and shoes, but THANK GOD she has stopped comparing herself to the models who hawk them.
08/25/09
It makes me think of all the dudes I know and try to figure out how each one will be as a parent. There are a couple in particular who I think will make amazing dads someday. Makes me a little happier for the human race before I have to go back to the rest of the world.
08/25/09
08/25/09
WRT to my last comment on the shaming thread... no one thinks I am smarter or more capable, and yes, prettier than my dad. Unlike my other parent, it is my dad who was the preacher of feminist thought, and the parent that never stopped encouraging me professionally and personally. I owe a lot to that man. He is full of faults, but I feel fortunate that he is who he is.
Yes, the heteronormative daddy/princess thing I too find troubling in a general sense, but for me personally my father is a much loved, imperfect hero.
08/25/09
08/25/09
08/25/09
08/25/09
However, every time I complained that I didn't feel good he would always answer "but you *look* good!"
08/25/09
08/25/09
08/25/09
08/25/09
That, I think, is the crux of what it means to have children, really. It shifts your perspective in unimaginable ways.
While do I sometimes get annoyed by hearty back patting for men who, frankly, are doing what they should be doing, I did find him likable. I felt like he was simply sharing a story, not asking for accolades.
And, the thought of any recently widowed parent sitting with his/her child the night after a spouse dies just makes me super sad. It is funny, however, how certain movies can be soothing in times of pain. Mine is Little Women.
08/25/09