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Flight 1549 Survivors: Let's Talk About "Women And Children First"
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Maulleigh
01/17/09

In reply to Flight 1549 Survivors: Let's Talk About "Women And Children First"
How about this? If you ever find yourself in the midst of a dangerous situation, you and your cohorts can argue it out then?
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snarkhunting is becoming a sarcastic bitch
01/17/09

In reply to Flight 1549 Survivors: Let's Talk About "Women And Children First"
@samethingwedoeverynightpinky: I was thinking the exact same thing. I travel with my cat quite a lot, and there is absolutely no fucking way I'd get off that plane without her.

As for women & children first, there is one minor practical thing, though I don't think it's relevant in a plane evacuation b/c of the space limitations. Children are smaller, and so are women, on average, and thus are more likely to hinder evacuation or be trampled if they don't go first...

just a thought.
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ceejeemcbeegee is not here
01/16/09

In reply to Flight 1549 Survivors: Let's Talk About "Women And Children First"
Ya know, if the folks on the plane didn't have an issue with it, why should we?
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bananaprincess
01/17/09

@ceejeemcbeegee: good point
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Lady Skittlehattington
01/16/09

In reply to Flight 1549 Survivors: Let's Talk About "Women And Children First"
I think it should be short people before tall people. Because if the boat/plane is sinking, we short people don't have as much time.
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chritter is a nocturnal feminist mancatfish
01/16/09

In reply to Flight 1549 Survivors: Let's Talk About "Women And Children First"
Eep! I guess a bunch of great minds had the same idea, but I just squealed ever-so-slightly at the sight of something I sent in as a suggestion actually appearing as a topic. Nice work, Sadie!

Now must go read many, many comments....
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ohgoodness
01/16/09

In reply to Flight 1549 Survivors: Let's Talk About "Women And Children First"
Oh come on.

Women and children first is not a threat to anyone's feminist-ity (new word!). It is to make sure that children and their caretakers are out first.

Plus, (god this is going to go over like a lead balloon) when you are dealing with icy waters like there were in the hudson, women are at a general disadvantage. We generally have less muscle mass and volume body fat which means that had you tossed 20 men and 20 women into that water, the women would have probably been most likely to get hit with hypothermia first. It's a lifesaving (if un-PC) measure.

Can we please talk about something that's actuually important now? Or if not important, than how about something really interesting?
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SarahMC
01/16/09

@ohgoodness: If you find the topic so snooze-worthy you could have just skipped the post.
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dridirtitini
01/16/09

In reply to Flight 1549 Survivors: Let's Talk About "Women And Children First"
I guess I don't understand the argument. Physically speaking, men are bigger and stronger than women and children biologically (although I know there are exceptions to every rule). If someone yelled, "Get out while you can!!!" and men didn't give a shit, you best believe they would plow through and over a group of women and children to save their asses.

This has nothing to do with intellectual or social equality - it is physical. The average man can hoist, lift, hold more in weight than the average woman or child. I honestly don't see what the problem is. No one is more important thatn anyone else, in my opinion, regardless of "women and children first."
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PinkBox
01/16/09

@tini: Gosh knows I have no problem with asking my much larger than me boyfriend to help me reach, lift or open something I am physically limited by thanks to my height and strength.

Sure, I could do it myself eventually. MAYBE. But I do appreciate his help, and I don't feel like less of a person because I needed it.
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Raspberry Swirly
01/16/09

In reply to Flight 1549 Survivors: Let's Talk About "Women And Children First"
Can we just put aside anger at the sexist undertones of the phrase and state the obvious? Women and children tend to be smaller than men. They would get squished. They get to go first. Yes, it would be nice to include all infirm people in the phrase, but it's awkward, and let's face it--the elderly won't aide growth of a new population in some kind of supreme catastrophe. It's a blanket phrase, and I doubt anyone would deny a father the right to go with his children if he were the sole caretaker.
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PandoraNeby
01/16/09

In reply to Flight 1549 Survivors: Let's Talk About "Women And Children First"
1. first of all Pilots are trained to land on water in case of an emergency. Don't give him a medal for being well trained. Demand consiotsncy in training of all pilots.

2. All fight crew men or women are trained to be the last off the plane.

3. Men (in general) are stronger than women (in general)
Men and women in general are stonger than children.
OMFG just deal with it already. (says the 6'1 chick who can bench 220)
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PinkBox
01/16/09

@Gundam_Halo: It was one of those wild beasts that noticed the woman climbing over a seat with her child who called out that people let women and children escape first.
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bess marvin, girl detective
01/16/09

@PandoraNeby: " first of all Pilots are trained to land on water in case of an emergency. Don't give him a medal for being well trained. Demand consiotsncy in training of all pilots."

yeah, that's why there has only been one safe water landing in 40 years. just because you train people to do something in a situation doesn't mean it works. the term "water landing" is crazy in itsself is that almost all planes coming down at a fast speed will most likely split open once it hits water. i heard it's a 1 in 200 chance that people survive it. that man landed a plane in the middle of the hudson and NO one died. he deserves a medal, point blank.
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PinkBox
01/16/09

@bess marvin, girl detective: I agree, and if anything, his getting a medal will serve to inspire other pilots who may find themselves in a similar situation.
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brendastarlet is on it
01/16/09

@PinkBox: there is a HUGE difference between training on a flight simulator and actually landing a plane on water. In this case, the pilot was also a glider pilot, and it is probably his skill at flying gliders that saved the jet, more than any time he spent practicing water landings on a computer screen.
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PandoraNeby
01/16/09

@brendastarlet is on it: As a Canadian licensed piot that learned how to fly orginally in a Glider. (CGRS '93 baby!) It really is his experience on gliders that made all the diffrence. For example the airliner that ran out of fuel that GLIDED into edmonton back in the 80s. Glider pilot.

Secondly, it depends on how the plane was coming down as to making it a safe landing on water. Most Accidents involve low level one engine failure. Which is deemed unrecoverable, really. This guy had enough altitude, simutanious engine failure and glider training. Ideal conditions to land on water.

Landing on water is not fucking diffrent than landing on concrete with one exception, once you land you will sink. So shut the Fuck up.
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onehotmess
01/17/09

@PandoraNeby: daaaamn girl. we dont get down like that here on jezebel.
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tourist19
01/16/09

In reply to Flight 1549 Survivors: Let's Talk About "Women And Children First"
As a Flight Attendant I would like to address a few things.

1. "Women and children first" is certainly not something that is included in ANY training, nor is it anything that any Flight Attendant I know would consider in an evacuation. We are trained that time permitting we are to ensure that ANYONE who needs assistance has a "buddy" who is willing and able to assist them in the course of an evacuation. That does not mean that those people would be evacuated first. We are trained to get EVERYONE out of any usable exit as quickly as possible.

2. "...and does "women" include the flight attendants?" I really really hope this was meant in a factitious manner because it was almost offensive to me. The Flight Crew are trained to be the last ones off the plane. It is part of my job to stay until everyone else it out, or I feel it is no longer safe for me to stay. I know that means I am putting my own life at risk, it is a part of the job.

3. I was amazed and pleased that what could have been such a horrid tragedy was averted by the training and remarkable abilities of the entire Flight Crew. I hope I would preform as well in the circumstances.
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Hana Maru
01/16/09

@tourist19: Thanks for your helpful, informative response.
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brendastarlet is on it
01/16/09

@tourist19: Bravo! As an airline child, I salute you and your fellow crew members. My dad taught us to thank the FAs and the pilots when we left the plane, and I always do.
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PinkBox
01/16/09

In reply to Flight 1549 Survivors: Let's Talk About "Women And Children First"
I know I won't be popular for this opinion, but I would be thankful if consideration were given to women and children first if I were in that kind of situation.

I am a short, very petite girl. There is no way in hell I'd be able to wade my way through a sea of men, no matter how strong or equal I would like to believe myself to be.

It makes sense to me to let the physically weaker get to safety first with the HELP of the stronger. It doesn't even have to be a male/female thing.

For the record, I would gladly put my life on the line to help a child, or someone obviously smaller than myself who would have trouble making it out.
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Raspberry Swirly
01/16/09

@PinkBox: I share your opinion. I'm not short or petite, and I'd like to think that I would let smaller folks go in front of me, but really, in a panicky situation, how many of us would really stop and think, "Fuck THAT sexist bull! I'm not going first just because you think I'm weak!"?
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victoriasauce
01/16/09

@Raspberry Swirl: Dance Party Coordinator: I agree. I kinda hate debating this sort of thing that seems unnecessary when REAL sexism, like on purpose, exists in this world.

Women and children first doesn't strike me as an insult. It just seems right to allow children first, and if the kid is with his/her mom, then allowing them to go together seems logical.
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SkipToMyLou
01/16/09

In reply to Flight 1549 Survivors: Let's Talk About "Women And Children First"
While I don't believe that the lives of women and children are inherently more valuable than any man's, as a practical method for maximizing total survival, this works pretty well- except that it should be children and their carers, people who need help, and their carers, able-bodied women and then able-bodied men. But that's a little long to say. It basically prioritizes rescue help to those who need the most help, leaving those who probably need less help to deal with fewer resources. It's not anti-feminist to say that most able-bodied men are physically stronger than most able bodied women.
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victoriasauce
01/16/09

In reply to Flight 1549 Survivors: Let's Talk About "Women And Children First"
I'm like Celine Dion when it comes to this...

"All the children of the world" first.

(aka FUCKING EVERYONE)
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kneelyohara
01/16/09

In reply to Flight 1549 Survivors: Let's Talk About "Women And Children First"
Why is it that the human race managed to get this (read: compassion, civility) right in an AIRPLANE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE HUDSON RIVER and not at a Walmart on Black Friday?
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Grim Reaper of the Forest
01/16/09

@kneelyohara: Because cheap electronic goods were not at stake?
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formergr
01/16/09

@kneelyohara: Wow, very good point. I guess it shows that mob mentality can go two ways...
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chritter is a nocturnal feminist mancatfish
01/16/09

@kneelyohara: Sully doesn't work at Wal-Mart.
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Grim Reaper of the Forest
01/16/09

In reply to Flight 1549 Survivors: Let's Talk About "Women And Children First"
Although I think the elderly should be included this, my understanding is that children first comes from the mentality that they have the longest life ahead of them, and that if there isn't enough time to get everyone off, and someone has to die, perhaps it is "better" if someone who as already had a long life risks being left behind.
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Crabby Cakes
01/16/09

@treecut...Grim Reaper of the forest: I always thought that was the unspoken undercurrent of this phrase myself.
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