I can’t honestly say I am shocked by bikini wax thing anymore. I think it has to do with the fact that so many people think to be bare means to be more hygienic which is absolutely the most ridicules thing I have ever heard of. I think more and more young girls think it is now just part of growing up. It needs to be stressed that any kind of hair removal is a personal choice and has absolutely nothing to do with hygiene if it did men would be completely shaved as would all our heads.
Okay, I'm going to get very literal here. Girls that young don't usually have that much pubic hair, do they? I really cannot see how a brazilian wax can even be possible!?! Is there something I'm missing here? I mean, I'm 33 and childless so far, my memory truly fails me. And besides the fact that it's freakishly wrong to encourage hypersexualization in girls this young, WTF is wrong with people??
@kityglitr: I don't get it either, but my best guess is that I think it has something to do with young girls fascination with getting whatever mommy gets done. I always wanted mani-pedis, facials, body scrubs, my hair done, etc. because my mom had it done. I think that they want it done since their mom has it done. Plus if a kid wants to use a razor on their privates if they don't have it waxed like mommy, then the mom caves because it sure is safer then the cutting something *very important* or very sensitive. Also, as some other people have mentioned, some girls do have a lot of hair even at 10. Girls are developing younger and younger so...well I guess that also has something to do with it.
I never had much hair, but I was a bit OCD about it and I had permanent hair removal at 17 (dang it hurts down their and under your arms!) but it was amazing and lasted perfectly and I'm 27 now. I would strongly recommend it to anyone. Its wonderful to never get in-growns and I could be stuck on a desert island for a year and look perfectly groomed.
@napalmnacey is an angry feminist: I don't understand how all those hobbies would imply an absence of the "beauty" rituals. I sing, do crafts, work out, read books, think i generally kick ass, and would still get mani-pedis, facials, etc if i could afford it.
A friend who works at the Australian film classification department recently informed me that if the latest porn releases are anything to go by, the full muff is BACK.
I can't believe the number of people who apparently can't see beyond their own puberty experiences. Some girls menstruate when they're eight. Some girls start when they're sixteen. Some girls have lots of thick, dark hair. Some girls hardly have any body hair. Their development is entirely beyond their control and they should be encouraged to do what they need to do to feel good about themselves. I remember being in Grade Six, coming to school one day and being teased because someone had seen me at my swimming lesson and I had visible pubic hair around the edges of my bathing suit. To this day I wish my mother had been proactive in the process of removing my body hair. The teasing started then and continued for years. I was vulnerable, I lacked self-confidence and I was going through puberty before most of the people around me. I needed people to see me and think something other than, "There's the hairy girl." I STILL have major issues about my body and my body hair... fifteen years, innumerable razor blades, countless waxes and a couple dozen laser treatments later. To any parents thinking of waxing, threading or even lasering their daughters... I strongly encourage you to GO FOR IT. To people judging the parents who make these choices, I would love for you to walk a mile in my size five, sixth-grade shoes.
@Jetgirly: Honey, I have a lot of pubes and they came at an early age. I understand the embarrassment and frustration. And I think a bikini waxing is an efficient way to deal with a very natural, but very embarrassing "problem".
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that get rid of ALL the hair? Including any hair in the butt-crack?
That is far too extreme and totally unnecessary for a child. Who is going to be looking a 10yr old's labia and crack? And should a kid be groomed for such an encounter? And who is going to do the grooming? Its too intrusive. THIS is what is so disturbing.
@fluxus flucker: Ok, I ran out of time to edit. At the point that I wrote "Correct me if I'm wrong", I should have created a new paragraph and specified that the subject was BRAZILIAN waxes.
So, to clarify: Bikini waxes for a kid an understandable and efficient solution to a common problem.
Brazilian waxes for a kid are disturbing and unnecessary.
@fluxus flucker: Really? Wow, I've never gone anywhere to pay for a wax and I'm 30. I did shave my legs around 11 or 12. I am pale with dark hair. I had pubic hair that young but it wasn't enough to wax. I just don't think the kids need to be taken out and have these things done all the time. It seems expsensive. Teach your kids to take care of it themselves. If they get used to having these things done by other people, what will they do when they get older and have their first job and don't have the money to pay for all the pampering?
I really question the Brazilian waxing for the elementary set. WHY would there be any need for this? It's expensive, it hurts like hell, and can cause problems like ingrown hairs. Basically I think they are playing up the one most shocking thing they can.
I am pretty anti-hair, but starting it that young disturbs me. On multiple levels. First of all, who's seeing it to care?! Second of all, my mom who is a nurse practitioner and does a lot of women's health was telling me that people have gotten herpes from unsanitary practiced in waxing parlors. Want to take that risk with a 10 year old?
The waxing is too much but I had hairy legs from about 10 years old so couldn't wait to get rid of it. My dad hated it as I used to steal his razors and shaving foam. I felt uncomfortable and my mum was cool enough to understand that I was at an age where needed to take control of my own body. My dad just subtracted the cost of his razors from my pocket money.
As for the makeup and nail polish, I loved watching my mum put her's on when she was going out. I always thought she looked like a lady, even though she had a thing for blue eyeshadow and orange lipstick at the time.
@Charlotte Beer: But seriously? People can actually SEE your legs, so it makes sense that you'd be self-conscious. Who benefits from a 10-year-old's wax job?
I was utterly horrified about the bikini waxing thing. And most cases, I still am. However, I remember when I was in dance a 9 or 10 year old classmate of mine also in dance started to grow very thick, black leg hair that actually could be seen through dancer's cotton tights. So her mother allowed her to shave her legs. Guess what? It didn't harm her - she's now a successful professional. So I think really depends on the situation. Getting girl's waxed because hair is "unsexy" is a pretty bad reason. However, a competitive 11 year old swimmer or gymnast getting a bit of waxing on the sides so she doesn't have to feel weird being the only girl with hair sticking out the sides of her suit does not sound evil to me.
Brazilian waxes for the under 20 set, toddler bras, and preteen beauty parties are utterly horrifying, though. A bit of silly nailpolish once a month? Not so much. A manicure every week? Horrifying. It really depends on what context we're talking about.
@Dancingfrog: Legs and pubes are very, very different. People see your legs, little girls get self conscious about it. Who is seeing a 10 year old's vag?
@colormeroutine: Wouldn't it just be better to teach your little girl to not give a rat's ass about other people's opinions on her body hair, no matter where it is located?
Re: baby waxing: A friend of my sister had a little baby/toddler who had to take some kind of medication that made her hairy. Like apparently, noticeably dark hairy legs. The mom Naired the baby's legs. On the one hand, I was shocked. Nair can NOT be good for babies, and who cares if a baby is a little hairy? On the other hand, I can kind of see it being the sort of thing you don't understand until the other moms and kids at the playground are staring and whispering at your hairy baby.
@Leucadia: I worked at a daycare through high school where I watched a class of about eight 2-year-olds. One of the girls I watched had a development disorder and took hormones, and she had as much pubic hair as I did when I was in middle school. Her mom was really against doing anything about it, and I can honestly say I don't know what I'd do in that situation at all.
@Newsgirl: Ok, I'm the mother of a profoundly disabled, profoundly wonderful 10 year old boy. Like a lot of kids with muscle disorders (he has a rare form of muscular dystrophy) he grew pubic hair at a very young age. And, like all the other aspects of his physical being that are 'different', I'm not about to start telling him that it's in any way wrong or something to be embarrassed about. We deal with other people's attitudes to his disability; we talk about what that says about them. But I tell him, and show him by my actions, every day that he is perfect. He is perfectly himself, and just the way he is.
@Niki S: That's the same thing this girl's mom told me, and I think it's wonderful. The thing I know that would worry me if I were in her place would be the way other children in school would treat her when they all got old enough to compare each other. I know that's nothing anyone can control, and I'm not a parent so I have no idea how difficult that would be.
@Newsgirl: My kid is different; there's no getting away from that. In all honesty, pubic hair is the least of his issues (he's on a ventilator, uses a power wheelchair and is tube-fed, etc). So I try to make sure that he can deal with, and is supported around, other people's flaky attitudes. I want him to grow up feeling proud to identify himself as a person with a disability, to see that he is who he is, and that he has a place in the world, and a perspective on it, that is different and valuable and important. that starts with teaching him to accept himself and his body.
@Snowbunny: Ditto with the nail polish. And seriously, at what other point in a girl's life will it be socially acceptable to wear pink-and-green glitter in public? I certainly couldn't get away with it now. Let them decorate themselves as much as they like, I say!
@Snowbunny:
On pubic hair, mine grew in when I was around 11 and I shaved it, and I'd say it was an anti-sexual thing for me, having it meant I was an adult, I was a kid and was having none of it.
@DaniFae: Yeah, and I understand if these girls are in swimsuits and are developing early and are embarrassed about their hair....whay not wax it? What's the alternative? Wear shorts over your bottoms? I bet no one would bat an eye if they were waxing thier armpits and it's exactly the same thing. Shaving or waxing yourself isn't prep for sex, it's basic grooming.
@a love gift: Apparently, in a story my mother-in-law LOVES to tell, my husband used to paint his toenails when he was a kid. My nephew also did it when he was around 5 or so because he was really close with his grandmother and wanted to be like her. I don't see anything wrong with nail painting per se, but I do think I would have problems with going someplace to get a manicure. Can't exactly explain it, but I feel that one is fun bonding and the other is just a business.
@PoisonPixie: Yes, but you realize what a Brazilian wax is, right? It's more than just the bikini line - it's everything including the hair around the asshole.
@Norma Neufner Lady Officer: Yep, and then my low back started to hurt and I thought maybe the slouchers are slouching and unhappy because they are in pain.
@weetziebat: When I was a kid, I loved painting my nails. So. Much. I thought nail polish was the most beautiful thing ever.
So one early Saturday morning, before my parents were awake, I went into their room with my mom's pink nail polish and painted her antique chest of drawers with it. I mean, if nail polish makes people pretty, and is pretty on its own, then it follows that it would make my mom's furniture more pretty, right?
Mama totally didn't see it that way. And when the smell of the nail polish woke her up, I got in big, mean, illogical grown up trouble.
@sequined: I was joking, but yeah, it would be really awesome to see a modern take on Boxcar Children (with maybe less of the gendered stuff, which felt weird to me when I read the first novel in the series but seemed pretty normal when I first read it myself back in the olden days).
When my little sisters were about 4-5, they were obsessed with bras. They'd steal my or my mom's bras and wear them, so finally my mom bought them some [unpadded] toddler bras. They were thrilled and wore them under their shirts for a while until they got over that phase.
That didn't bother me, but the overall trend is definitely disturbing. Bikini waxes? Really?
@Lymed: I initially read this and was all, yeah, go Team Science! A good friend was just diagnosed with Stage 3 breast cancer due to a genetic mutation, and it wouldn't surprise me if this was the one. She's also going through huge rounds of genetic sequencing to find out if she's likely to contract cancer in the rest of her organs -- it's precautionary for her and, down the road, her kids. But just by undergoing the testing, if she EVER changes health insurance plans and happens to contract, say, brain cancer? Dropped like a hot potato for being a "pre-existing risk." So while the genetic research is fantastic, being the lab rat means lining yourself up in front of the original death panel: the insurance industry.
@houseofclams: Actually, I believe the Genetic Nondiscrimination Act of 2008 should prevent that. If she is under employer-sponsored insurance (vs. purchasing it herself as an individual policy if she's free-lance or works for a small business or is part-time), then the insurance company is prohibited from using the findings as a pre-existing condition. The law also prevents an employer from discriminating based on the information.
If she is self-covered, though, there is unfortunately less protection. Though it's not clear yet how genetic nondiscrimination will be addressed once/if health reform passes.
@Lymed: Although it would be amazing if this new gene mutation was present and detectable before you developed cancer, that is sadly not the case. This new discovery is just a gene that happens to be mutated in many breast cancers--but just the cancer cells. What happens when cells start to grow out of control is that the DNA replication machinery starts to get sloppy, and makes a lot of errors. When an error is made in this NRG1 gene it helps the cancer get more out of control.
There are two known genes, the BRCA 1 and 2, that are passed through families, meaning some people are born with a copy of the gene that doesn't work. These women have about an 80% risk of developing breast or ovarian cancer in their lifetimes (it also increases the risk for some other cancers and also breast and prostate cancer in men). If many women in your family have had breast or ovarian cancer, especially if they were diagnosed at a young age, you can look into getting testing for one of these gene mutations. However, these only account for about 2% of all breast cancers, so it is relatively rare.
@formergr: I beleive so, I want to get genetic testing for breast cancer and Huntington's as both are in my family but I wanted to make sure the law passed first. Now I just need the money.
My grandma has Huntington's and my mom has breast cancer. My mom hasn't gotten tested for Huntington's so I don't know if she has the gene for it. My grandma didn't get diagnosed with it until her 70's, which is late for the disease.
@tomatoe: And I'm not sure on the new mutation being only present in the cancer cells. That's not how I read the article. I read it as the NRG1 gene gets mutated, then leads to cancer since it says, "The gene is present in everyone's DNA, but becomes damaged in some people, allowing cancer to develop."
Do you have more info on what you said from somewhere else?
@Red-headed bookworm: I haven't read about this anywhere else but the article actually says "Everybody is born with an intact NRG1 but it gets damaged in some people during their lifetime, thereby enabling cancer to develop." I took "intact" to mean that it doesn't have the mutation, and then during some mitotic divisions in the breast tissue later in life it does get mutated, cell replication starts to get out of control, and it is easier for cancer to develop.
My knowledge of breast cancer is skewed towards the inherited side because I work with genetic counselors. So I see women all day who have the BRCA mutations in their families, and when I first spotted this article I thought to myself "wow, 50%!" thinking it would change the world of cancer genetic counseling. After reading the article though, I saw that it is not an inherited mutation. So although it is still a very important discovery and will help scientists learn more about the progression of this kind of cancer, it doesn't really give healthy women any more idea about their risk of developing cancer later in life.
My point was that no one is born with this mutation, and it is not present in all of your cells. Inherited mutations are the basis of genetic testing for predisposition for diseases. If you have a mutation in BRCA 1 or 2 or the HD gene, it is in every one of your cells, and you were born with it. They can be tested for with a blood draw.
I'm in Mass, and I know there is a law against genetic discrimination by insurance companies. In fact, a lot of companies here even cover the cost of genetic testing if you have a strong family history. I don't know what state you're in or what insurance you have, but I'm guessing most would cover the cost of HD testing because it is easy to justify based on family histories. In other words, it is very easy to tell if HD runs in your family. Breast cancer is a little trickier, because some families with multiple breast cancers have just been unlucky statistically, while others actually do transmit the BRCA mutations. At any rate, I recommend you see a genetic counselor if you haven't already, and she can talk you through exactly what your options are based on your insurance plan and what information you want to know. I've even know GCs who personally call insurance companies to argue for their patients' tests to be covered.
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I never had much hair, but I was a bit OCD about it and I had permanent hair removal at 17 (dang it hurts down their and under your arms!) but it was amazing and lasted perfectly and I'm 27 now. I would strongly recommend it to anyone. Its wonderful to never get in-growns and I could be stuck on a desert island for a year and look perfectly groomed.
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See, my Mum painted pictures, sang opera, sculpted things, built computers and generally kicked ass.
I don't look too good but at least I have a good stack of talents (to make up for being a hot mess).
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that get rid of ALL the hair? Including any hair in the butt-crack?
That is far too extreme and totally unnecessary for a child. Who is going to be looking a 10yr old's labia and crack? And should a kid be groomed for such an encounter? And who is going to do the grooming? Its too intrusive. THIS is what is so disturbing.
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So, to clarify: Bikini waxes for a kid an understandable and efficient solution to a common problem.
Brazilian waxes for a kid are disturbing and unnecessary.
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As for the makeup and nail polish, I loved watching my mum put her's on when she was going out. I always thought she looked like a lady, even though she had a thing for blue eyeshadow and orange lipstick at the time.
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Brazilian waxes for the under 20 set, toddler bras, and preteen beauty parties are utterly horrifying, though. A bit of silly nailpolish once a month? Not so much. A manicure every week? Horrifying. It really depends on what context we're talking about.
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I don't have a problem with nail polish, though. My two year old cousin and I had a grand time painting our nails a couple of months ago.
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On pubic hair, mine grew in when I was around 11 and I shaved it, and I'd say it was an anti-sexual thing for me, having it meant I was an adult, I was a kid and was having none of it.
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The Brazilian goes way beyond basic grooming.
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So one early Saturday morning, before my parents were awake, I went into their room with my mom's pink nail polish and painted her antique chest of drawers with it. I mean, if nail polish makes people pretty, and is pretty on its own, then it follows that it would make my mom's furniture more pretty, right?
Mama totally didn't see it that way. And when the smell of the nail polish woke her up, I got in big, mean, illogical grown up trouble.
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What about all kinds of other YA books? Like, I don't remember ever seeing a Boxcar Children movie, or a Bobsey twins movie.
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That didn't bother me, but the overall trend is definitely disturbing. Bikini waxes? Really?
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If she is self-covered, though, there is unfortunately less protection. Though it's not clear yet how genetic nondiscrimination will be addressed once/if health reform passes.
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There are two known genes, the BRCA 1 and 2, that are passed through families, meaning some people are born with a copy of the gene that doesn't work. These women have about an 80% risk of developing breast or ovarian cancer in their lifetimes (it also increases the risk for some other cancers and also breast and prostate cancer in men). If many women in your family have had breast or ovarian cancer, especially if they were diagnosed at a young age, you can look into getting testing for one of these gene mutations. However, these only account for about 2% of all breast cancers, so it is relatively rare.
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My grandma has Huntington's and my mom has breast cancer. My mom hasn't gotten tested for Huntington's so I don't know if she has the gene for it. My grandma didn't get diagnosed with it until her 70's, which is late for the disease.
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Do you have more info on what you said from somewhere else?
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My knowledge of breast cancer is skewed towards the inherited side because I work with genetic counselors. So I see women all day who have the BRCA mutations in their families, and when I first spotted this article I thought to myself "wow, 50%!" thinking it would change the world of cancer genetic counseling. After reading the article though, I saw that it is not an inherited mutation. So although it is still a very important discovery and will help scientists learn more about the progression of this kind of cancer, it doesn't really give healthy women any more idea about their risk of developing cancer later in life.
My point was that no one is born with this mutation, and it is not present in all of your cells. Inherited mutations are the basis of genetic testing for predisposition for diseases. If you have a mutation in BRCA 1 or 2 or the HD gene, it is in every one of your cells, and you were born with it. They can be tested for with a blood draw.
I'm in Mass, and I know there is a law against genetic discrimination by insurance companies. In fact, a lot of companies here even cover the cost of genetic testing if you have a strong family history. I don't know what state you're in or what insurance you have, but I'm guessing most would cover the cost of HD testing because it is easy to justify based on family histories. In other words, it is very easy to tell if HD runs in your family. Breast cancer is a little trickier, because some families with multiple breast cancers have just been unlucky statistically, while others actually do transmit the BRCA mutations. At any rate, I recommend you see a genetic counselor if you haven't already, and she can talk you through exactly what your options are based on your insurance plan and what information you want to know. I've even know GCs who personally call insurance companies to argue for their patients' tests to be covered.