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Hot Shots: Basketball Team Photos Raise Questions Of Homophobia
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BytheSea
11/25/09

In reply to Hot Shots: Basketball Team Photos Raise Questions Of Homophobia
A lot of male athletes are portrayed in this 'glam' light. I think the article is mixing issues. If you want women's sports to exist at the level of men's, then a glam photo shoot in understated dresses with a limo is certainly indicative of a sport that the school is investing money in. BTW, that shot up there, in a bronze dress with braided hair and tatoos showing, is 'power glam,' very appropriate for female athletes. It's Angelina Jolie c. 1996, not Cinderella.

The 'no lesbians' thing is another issue entirely. (Coz the girl in the pic? Could pass for a hot butch, imo.) It's SOP in sports that athletes be a clean, all-American bunch. There's no gay people in baseball!
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whynotshesaid
11/24/09

In reply to Hot Shots: Basketball Team Photos Raise Questions Of Homophobia
I'm not surprised by these images. I don't call them indicators of homophobia as much as I see them as attempts at reinforcing strict gender identity rules. It's sort of like this unspoken quid pro quo - the woman gets to play sports and do "boy things" as long as she is willing to work extra hard at "being a girl" in all other ways. Homophobia is certainly a part of it, but it is just a small part of a much bigger issue, in which the gender identities of women who venture into traditionally male-dominated territory are subject to an extra-heavy dose of policing.

It's an ongoing issue in the field of women's athletics, and one I could talk about for hours and hours. Title IX may have paved the way for women to take to the fields and the courts, but the rest of our society has a fuck load of catching up to do.
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Edited by whynotshesaid at 11/24/09 2:29 PM whynotshesaid was starred whynotshesaid was unstarred

sarahmick.86 summer
11/24/09

@whynotshesaid: I agree, I don't think it's specifically hetero vs. homosexual, I think it's overemphasizing the feminine in order to make it "okay". I definitely know how hard it is to get support for women's sports. People blatantly dislike women's basketball because it 'ruins the game' or some sort of bull like that. They don't deny it, they're proud of it. So while I understand the school wanting to attract views and sell tickets, this is hardly the way to do it.
This is definitely not the first time it's been done tho, it happens all the time. on the rare occasion that a woman graces the pages of sports illustrated, it's much more likely that you'll see her off the court/field/water/etc, and instead sitting naked outside of the arena with strategically placed equipmen. While showing female athletes in outside their sport is fine, it shouldn't be the only way they are appearing in a SPORTS magazine. and most of the time, it is.
But among college athletes at least, i've seen that when there is a reputation or rumor or homosexuality, a lot of the women feel they must combat it with a strong showing of heteronormative behavior. a few of my teammates actually gained reputations in the other direction (called sluts) because of the way they reacted to the pressures to be 'feminine' or hetero.
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whynotshesaid
11/24/09

@sarahmick.86 summer: Exactly. I agree with everything you said. and also, I am sorry to hear that happened with your teammates. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, huh?

As much as we as a society talk a good game about women and girls who play sports, the fact is people still find it transgressive. Hence all the pressure for female athletes to be pretty and ladylike and polite and wear dresses and pose in string bikinis. They can be competitive but not too competitive, aggressive but not that aggressive. Otherwise they are being unfeminine, and we can't have that, not at all.
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Flackette Goes Retro
11/24/09

In reply to Hot Shots: Basketball Team Photos Raise Questions Of Homophobia
I don't see this as homophobic, just hard-core marketing - and that is my problem with Division 1 college athletics; student athletes are marketed as a "product." I find this example particularly nefarious, though, because male student athletes tend to be marketed as fierce competitors, whereas FSU seems to have just thrown in the towel and decided to market their women's team as "pretty" rather than "awesome basketball players." If individual players like getting dolled up on their own time, that's awesome - but I object to the school forcing them into an image that has nothing to do with their athletic ability. Women's athletics already struggle for parity with men's programs (even with title IX, even at major schools, women's teams consistently get the second-best facilities, equipment and budgets). This isn't really helping their cause.
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Edited by Flackette Goes Retro at 11/24/09 2:13 PM

Flackette Goes Retro
11/24/09

@Flackette Goes Retro: Okay, I take some of that back just because of this awesome formal gown + chuck taylors look
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Edited by Flackette Goes Retro at 11/24/09 2:19 PM

J.D.Regent
11/24/09

In reply to Hot Shots: Basketball Team Photos Raise Questions Of Homophobia
I also think that male athletes are positioned as sex gods, so in the context of pro sports sexualizing female athletes -- whether it's for a straight or queer audience -- is actually a more complex move than we might assume.
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Raised-byHeathens
11/24/09

In reply to Hot Shots: Basketball Team Photos Raise Questions Of Homophobia
This might be an unpopular stance, but here goes. In the long long ago, male sports had a chance to cultivate fans of the sport, out of which 'superstars' rose organically from the fan-dom. The entire idea of women annexing part of that sport away from the men is an uncomfortable idea for most-- even if they don't want to admit it--because of long held internalized gender roles. By prettying up these women, by using the celebrity machine of popular culture to artificially create superstars within a less popular subset of sport, the coaches are attempting to legitimize women's sport. If athletics media can point to a female Kobe, then women must be taken at least somewhat seriously within the realm of said sport. I think the glamorization of these players is an attempt to hustle up fans and sanction women's role in athletics. we live in a world where Kate Gosselin gets almost as many tabloid covers as Angelina Jolie-- a world where celebrity can be *created* like in a lab.And the recipes for creating these stars are pretty set in stone. I'm not happy that this is the case, but I feel these photos are more an effort to showcase stars in the sport than to shove girls into the closet.
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Flackette Goes Retro
11/24/09

@Raised-byHeathens: I completely agree. I don't see it as homophobic (lesbians wear dresses too!) but just a marketing move. Now, it's not a marketing move I particularly agree with, but I think it's pretty clear that's what it is.
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ronniedobbs
11/24/09

In reply to Hot Shots: Basketball Team Photos Raise Questions Of Homophobia
I don't think it's useful to compare the men and women's sites to each other, because it positions the men's team as the Serious Standard Bearer. It also distracts us from talking about the role the women themselves are playing in crafting the team's image. No one has mentioned that each of those girls has a basketball in their hands in at least one of their glam photos. I think that's pretty cool, and says something about how they're defining "beauty."

Also:

"We feel it is important to set ourselves apart as much as we can... We wanted to have a product that would stand out to the people we are trying to reach."

Why are we assuming the "people we are trying to reach" only includes (male) ticket-buyers, when it could also include the kinds of athletes they are trying to recruit? I think that's way more interesting than reducing this to a "they're courting the Male Gaze" discussion.
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J.D.Regent
11/24/09

@ronniedobbs: it positions the men's team as the Serious Standard Bearer.

I LOVE your framing of this issue.
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katie.scarlett.o'hara
11/24/09

In reply to Hot Shots: Basketball Team Photos Raise Questions Of Homophobia
Isn't women's basketball kind of notoriously unpopular in ticket sales and stuff? I think they are doing this purely to garner attention and brand the team apart from the general image of the sport. It might be unfortunate, but I think creating a distinct image for the women's team apart from the men's is sort of necessary to generate buzz around the team.

My home city poured tons of money into the creation of a "sister" WNBA team that played in the same arena as our men's team, and it shut down after only two seasons because no one went to the games.
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shoroko
11/24/09

In reply to Hot Shots: Basketball Team Photos Raise Questions Of Homophobia
While I can see the homophobia argument, I think if you're going to get into potential issues with those kinds of images, the unnecessary sexualization simply because they're women athletes would be the more apparent issue, at least. The idea that feminine =/= lesbian also makes me uncomfortable.

But I can also see the argument that male athletes are often sexualized in such shots, too; I'd at most argue that male athletes are still typically depicted within the activities of their sport, rather than as movie stars of the like.
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egg cream
11/24/09

@shoroko: I feel the same way. These debates always annoy me -- why are we assuming that "feminine" = "not lesbian"? Why is the first conclusion we jump to not "female athletes are being presented in a way male athletes are not because women are expected to be sexually attractive and available at all times" but "female athletes are being prettied up so nobody thinks they're lesbians, because lesbians are always butch and ugly"?

Not only does it implicitly reinforce the ideas that (a) lesbians are all butch and (b) if you are queer, you are not a "real" man or woman, but it ignores what I think is the more important issue -- which is, as I mentioned above, that women are expected to be sexually attractive and available (it doesn't matter to whom) at all times. This is why we have the beauty industry, this is why we have rape culture, this is why we have so many problems, and it affects all women, across all sexualities. (And, in fact, is even at the root of the idea that if you're queer, you're not a "real" woman or man.) Why aren't we talking about that?
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J.D.Regent
11/24/09

In reply to Hot Shots: Basketball Team Photos Raise Questions Of Homophobia
I guess I don't understand why wearing a satin dress makes you look less gay.
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PilgrimSoul
11/24/09

@J.D.Regent: This was my question. Are we back to short hair/androgynous clothing being the only acceptable form of lesbian display?

It's weird, but this critique of heteornormativity strikes me as... heteronormative.
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Edited by PilgrimSoul at 11/24/09 12:51 PM PilgrimSoul was starred PilgrimSoul was unstarred

Israfel_angel
11/24/09

@J.D.Regent: Don't you? I mean, surely no lesbian EVER has worn a satin dress. Satin dresses make their flesh burn. I think I read that in the bible... or Sarah Palin's new book. Or something.
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you've got red on you
11/24/09

@Israfel_angel: This author must've snoozed through The L Word. Those ladies wore the hell out of some gorgeous, glamorous dresses. Whether or not that show is even remotely true to life is debatable, but the message was pretty clear: wearing a pretty dress doesn't make you any less gay.
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greeneyedfem
11/24/09

@you've got red on you: wearing a pretty dress doesn't make you any less gay

But it sure as hell makes you more palatable to straight people everywhere.

I think the real issue here is gender policing, not homophobia (although there is overlap).
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whynotshesaid
11/24/09

@greeneyedfem: YES. It is all about gender policing.
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Tippi Hedren
11/24/09

In reply to Hot Shots: Basketball Team Photos Raise Questions Of Homophobia
I don't think this is offensive at all. I looked at the website, as well as the players' photo galleries, and while the women look attractive in the photos, I don't think it's overtly sexy. In fact, it's completely tasteful.

Personally, I think they're trying to show that they are multi-dimensional. Fantastic athletes, yes, but more than that. What's wrong with adding personality to the sport?
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angelheadedhipster
11/24/09

@Tippi Hedren: True, but then why aren't the men shown in tuxedos exiting limos? And why are their stats listed, rather than stat-free quotes as with the female players? While I'm not sure it's necessarily homophobia at work (and, trust me, I'm incredibly sensitive when it comes to homophobia), there are some definite issues with gender roles going on here, methinks, and it just gives me the awk feeling in general.
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Tippi Hedren
11/24/09

@angelheadedhipster: Their stats should most definitely be on the page, I agree.

As far as comparing the men's team, maybe the women wanted fancy pictures and the men didn't. It doesn't necessarily have to mean anything deeper than that.
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lijakaca
11/24/09

@Tippi Hedren: The thing is, EVERY time something like this is highlighted in the media/blogosphere, people say "Well maybe they just wanted to this one time!" Yeah, but that doesn't mean that decision wasn't influenced by our whole culture of objectifying women. And how many examples does it take for people to recognize a pattern?
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Tippi Hedren
11/24/09

@lijakaca: I really don't think wanting to look pretty is the same thing as objectification.
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lijakaca
11/24/09

@Tippi Hedren: No, they're not - one is an individual desire and acting on that desire, the other is how society treats that individual. Like, the decision to wear a dress vs. deciding to use glam shots to promote a basketball team.
My issue is not with the players wearing dresses - it's with the team promoters deciding this is how a sports team should be publicized vs. promoting the actual sport.
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whynotshesaid
11/24/09

@lijakaca: Thank you. A lot of statements I see are defending this decision because they are framing it strictly in terms of individual choice. But when you put it into a wider social and historical context, it stops seeming like a cute, fun choice and starts looking like yet another instance of gender policing.
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morninggloria
11/24/09

In reply to Hot Shots: Basketball Team Photos Raise Questions Of Homophobia
You'd think that if they wanted to attract more male fans, they'd embrace the "lesbians" thing. It worked for Tila Tequila and it works in college bars across the country, and it worked for Katy Perry.
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nyc-caribbean-ragazza
11/24/09

In reply to Hot Shots: Basketball Team Photos Raise Questions Of Homophobia

Well we do have this where I live.

I don't see a single soccer ball in this ad.
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barb95
11/24/09

@nyc-caribbean-ragazza: exactly. There are a lot of pics with male athletes that are just about looking good. I guess the problem is that this is on the school's site.
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HannahBethD
11/24/09

@nyc-caribbean-ragazza: Where do you live? Can I go there? PLEASE!
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femme-bot
11/24/09

@nyc-caribbean-ragazza: Right click, save. Thank you.
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IBleedGlitter: The High Priestess of Tinsel
11/24/09

@barb95: The difference here is that they're selling underwear, not promoting their team. This is an ad, not a team picture.
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nyc-caribbean-ragazza
11/24/09

@HannahBethD:

ha

I live in Italy. These billboards were everywhere during the last World Cup.
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nyc-caribbean-ragazza
11/24/09

@IBleedGlitter: The High Priestess of Tinsel:

But it is the National team and this is only one in a series so I would say they are promoting the team along with the fact that Dolce and Gabbana designed their official uniforms.

However, I can see how it is different for a school promoting their athletes vs. a professional team.

I wonder how the women felt about the photo shoot?

I played sports. It is possible to be a fierce competitor and like lipstick.
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Lymed
11/24/09

In reply to Hot Shots: Basketball Team Photos Raise Questions Of Homophobia
Some of the women are posing with these looks like they are gonna kill you on the court. Those pictures I like, because those pictures are playing with idea of the satin dress and the tough basketball player. It actually makes me think this whole website could have been much for successful if they brought basketball into the idea. Maybe show them playing basketball in their dresses, with sneakers and not heels. Or show some of them taking off the dress to reveal a basketball uniform below.
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Le Kangourou de Kataroo
11/24/09

In reply to Madam Claims Playmates For Hire; $10,000 A "Date"
The article also said that two of the athletes went on to marry their "dates" they were set up with... so that's not exactly being a hooker, right? It's more like being on "Millionaire Matchmaker" with Patty.
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Tchotchke
11/24/09

@Le Kangourou de Kataroo: Except Patty drops you from the club if your "penis gets off the couch" during your first date.
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lisas
11/24/09

In reply to Madam Claims Playmates For Hire; $10,000 A "Date"
I am shocked at the revelation that these 20-year-old women are only with 80-year-old Hefner because of money. Shocked.
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