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ellaesther
04/13/09

In reply to Ruth Bader Ginsburg Doesn't Take Crap From Cancer (Or John Roberts)
Oh, Ruth Bader Ginsburg! I am thrilled by this post, and yet here I am cringing as she perpetuates a myth about the Nazi party, and I can't find the fucking reference in my books!

Please, please, historian Jezebelles, help me out here:

If I remember correctly, the Nazis were not "popularly elected," per se, but rather rose to power as a result of the crazy politics and the arcane elections laws of the Weimer Republic. Something along the lines of (and this is very loose, as it comes from memory, and every historian will tell you that memory is a dodgy tool at best): No one else won enough to take the 1933 elections, so run-offs were held, and the Nazis formed a coalition with another party, and somehow (that's the part I SUPER don't remember) were able to push the other party aside, et voila: Nazi Germany. If I recall, something like 30-something % of the vote went for the Nazi Party, but honestly, I'm only seeing vague outlines in my head at this point.

Which is not to say that democratic nations don't need a strong judiciary (hello 2000 Presidential elections...!), or to say that Nazi Germany wasn't a big bag of shit suffused with a mindboggling amount of Jew hatred.

It's just to say that the Nazis weren't "popularly elected," which I believe is important because -- as a Jew -- I think it's dangerous to say "Hey! Nazi Germany could happen anywhere! Hitler was democratically elected!" No it couldn't and no he wasn't and let's all remember that each place and time is unique and let's fight the actual battles before us.
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J.D.Regent
04/13/09

@ellaesther: but was any of that political machination actually illegal or outside the democratic system? the way you describe it sounds like the way a lot of democratic regimes work. In any case while she should be corrected if factually wrong, her point about the dangers of unchecked popular democracy is still a very important one.
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ellaesther
04/13/09

@ellaesther: Crap. This is really OT. I'm sorry.... A nerve was struck, and I was off to the races. My bad.

Whoot Ruth Bader Ginsburg! I wish she weren't alone on the bench too!
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J.D.Regent
04/13/09

@ellaesther: no girl sorry for dragging you into something. i'm genuinely curious about the historical facts. pm me if you have details you don't want to get into here.
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brendastarlet is on it
04/13/09

@ellaesther: Hitler was not elected president of Germany, not in the sense that an American president is elected. But there were elections, and the Hindenberg government eventually fell amid polical intrigue. There is a lengthy discussion here.

[www.historyplace.com]
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ellaesther
04/13/09

@J.D.Regent: @littlemissvan: No, none of it was illegal, but I think that what littlemissvan points out is the missing piece, and while not illegal, it was hardly democratic -- if you see my point -- and certainly not popular. And I am not (really, really not) comparing Bush to Hitler (and I have gone off on people who did), but the election situation is at least comparable to our 2000 Presidential election -- the outcome of which was also, in my book, neither popular nor democratic.

Hence, perhaps, the need for a strong judiciary, even when all the laws are lined up neatly. As Justice Ginsberg said: elected officials can't "always be trusted to preserve the system's most basic values."
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ellaesther
04/13/09

@brendastarlet is on it: Thank you for this! I'll read it, and then the next time I go off on a rant, perhaps I'll actually know what I'm talking about!! /scurries away, tail between geeky legs/
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misspell
04/13/09

@ellaesther: Yes, I completely see what you're saying. Despite the fact that Hitler rose to power in what was, on paper, a democratic system, it took a lot of very specific circumstances to make it possible (and even more specific circumstances for his reign to turn into the hell that it was), and it's very misleading to say that any unchecked democracy can have those same results. It's just such an easy go-to when people are groping for evidence that any manipulation of the system can turn a democracy into an authoritarian regime. RBG, though, shouldn't have to stoop to such tactics, because she's extraordinarily intelligent and eloquent. I adore her.
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hovy
04/13/09

In reply to Ruth Bader Ginsburg Doesn't Take Crap From Cancer (Or John Roberts)
Meanwhile, Justice Thomas this weekend "admitted to an uneasy relationship with the whole idea of rights."

[www.nytimes.com]

Because, you know, Americans are just overflowing with rights. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get ready for my (pretend) civil union, not marriage.
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J.D.Regent
04/13/09

@hovy: god that article made me ill. If he's so bored and disgusted with his job and the legal canon he has to work with, why doesn't he do us all a favor and fucking retire young?
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stacyinbean
04/13/09

In reply to Ruth Bader Ginsburg Doesn't Take Crap From Cancer (Or John Roberts)
Wait, there is/was a human (an American at that?) named Learned Hand? Sorry, I know I should care more about the rest of the article, but now I have to go learn about this guy...
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littlemissvan
04/13/09

@stacyinbean: His eyebrows are blowing my mind.
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brendastarlet is on it
04/13/09

@stacyinbean: yes. As a history major, I know all about this guy.
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SunburnedCounsel
04/13/09

@stacyinbean: There are three really striking things about him.
1) His full, given, name was Billings Learned Hand.
2) His eyebrows.
3) He is super famous and every law student reads his opinions (and his opinions quoted by SCOTUS) and he was never on the Supreme Court. Just Second Circuit Court of Appeals.
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YourScreenplaySucks
04/13/09

In reply to Ruth Bader Ginsburg Doesn't Take Crap From Cancer (Or John Roberts)
Lithwick finally points out that, if and when Obama does have an opportunity to appoint a Supreme Court justice, he'll have plenty of women to choose from.

IF he has an opportunity to appoint judges? Look, I love Ginsburg & Stevens. But unless we've got Dole-Clinton odds when Obama comes up for re-election, they need to step down before Obama's term is up.

Thomas, Roberts, Alito - these guys are essentially teenagers in Supreme Court Justice years. We need some young liberals in that court, stat. And by young, I mean I want some Doogie Howser judges on that bench.
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kelsium
04/13/09

In reply to Ruth Bader Ginsburg Doesn't Take Crap From Cancer (Or John Roberts)
RBG, I missed you! Please grace us with your opinions for many more years to come.
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Santos L Halper
04/13/09

In reply to Ruth Bader Ginsburg Doesn't Take Crap From Cancer (Or John Roberts)
I like salty language, too, Ruth. Why don't we board a trade ship together and read foreign justices' opinions to bide our time? We can sing off-color tunes about Justice Roberts' crusty nether regions while we're at it.
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Cesybabe or Nirvanah Crane
04/13/09

In reply to Ruth Bader Ginsburg Doesn't Take Crap From Cancer (Or John Roberts)
I just did a paper on the position of women in the legal profession. In New Zealand, we too only have one woman on the Supreme Court. She is the Chief Justice, but yeah, one. There are only 2 female Court of Appeal justices, and women generally only make up 40% of partners at law firms. The general hope has been with women seemingly making up 60% of the students at law schools that these numbers would increase, but it sure is slow going.
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SunburnedCounsel
04/13/09

@Cesybabe or Nirvanah Crane: 40% of law partners? We can only dream of those types of numbers in the US. I picked my firm in part because of their "unusually high numbers" at 33%.
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Cesybabe or Nirvanah Crane
04/13/09

@SunburnedCounsel: That's all kinds of ridiculous. I found that women aren't getting partnerships because they don't tend to get the commercial work, which of course brings in the money, so aren't considered for partnerships. Nor are they involved in litigation, so they don't get to get called to the Bench either. Women are stuck in family and wills and trusts, or as in house counsel or in government work because its more flexible, particularly for those who have children.
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DinaRonson : Elizabeth Cady Stanton
04/13/09

In reply to Ruth Bader Ginsburg Doesn't Take Crap From Cancer (Or John Roberts)
Can we clone her?
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bluebears
04/13/09

In reply to Ruth Bader Ginsburg Doesn't Take Crap From Cancer (Or John Roberts)
I'm sorry. All I got out of that was that Ruth Bader Ginsberg was around when Learned Hand was on the bench. Wowza.
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bluebears
04/13/09

@bluebears: k. just looked this up he graduated law school in 1896. although he was on the bench in the 50s.
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Cesybabe or Nirvanah Crane
04/13/09

@bluebears: I read a judgment by Learned Hand once, and thought he was a fake judge, that someone was just writing under that name. Took me forever to realise he was REAL. Then I realised that was the coolest name for a judge ever, and wished he was a Law Lord.
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hfree
04/13/09

@bluebears: I'm still getting over that there was someone named "Learned Hand" (I'm assuming it's pronouced Learn-ed)
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Never_Nude
04/13/09

@bluebears: I know, right!? She spoke at my old law school recently and never mentioned that little factoid. I would have said, "Ooooh!!!!" He had a giant, pulsating brain, that one.
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merv
04/13/09

In reply to Ruth Bader Ginsburg Doesn't Take Crap From Cancer (Or John Roberts)
What's weird is that the justices are all good friends; they chill at each others houses, cookouts and birthday parties. Stevens was talking on NPR about how he hangs with Scalia all the time. It sounded like the most bipartisan friendship(s) ever.
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Majrhoulihan
04/13/09

@mervbaby: Oh I totally believe that. I also believe Scalia would crash a party.
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♥AntiSocialSocialite♥
04/14/09

@mervbaby: almost as crazy as the Carville-Matalin setup...

Bipartisan love makes me all warm and fuzzy.
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Le Coucher d'Yvette
04/13/09

In reply to Ruth Bader Ginsburg Doesn't Take Crap From Cancer (Or John Roberts)
I have always believed that Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Sandra Day O'Conner are two of the most kick-ass ladies around.
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Liz11685
04/13/09

Me too! I even named my pet mouse Sandra after Day O'Conner!@Le Coucher d'Yvette: @Le Coucher d'Yvette:
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HoooooooT
04/13/09

In reply to Ruth Bader Ginsburg Doesn't Take Crap From Cancer (Or John Roberts)
Since she cited Israel's opinion of torture, interesting fact: the first and only (to this day) person to be executed by the State of Israel was Adolph Eichmann, who was hunted down by Massad in South America in the 1950s.
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J.D.Regent
04/13/09

@HoooooooT: unless you count extrajudicial killings.
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HoooooooT
04/13/09

@J.D.Regent: Of course. Then it is a lot. But officially...I am writing my dissertation about the Third Reich, so interesting facts like that make my dorky little heart flutter.
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morninggloria
04/13/09

In reply to Ruth Bader Ginsburg Doesn't Take Crap From Cancer (Or John Roberts)
Ruth! Oh, Ruth! Right here Ruth! I have a question! My question is: what tips do you have for girls who are trying to shape up, with bathing suit season right around the corner? Do you diet? You've got great legs, Ruth. Who are you wearing? Who designed your shoes?
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Trulymadlyme
04/13/09

@morninggloria:

But for serious, she is such a fantastic jurist. What I find compelling about her writing is the honesty to it. One thing originalist textual judges like to claim is that they know what the forefathers were thinking when they wrote the constitution. Ginsburg is like, bish please, those people had slaves. The standards of decency evolve. Let's follow the text and not the men who wrote them. I heart her so much.
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burningdinner
04/13/09

@morninggloria: You didn't mention her arms. Do her robes show her arms at all? Is that appropriate? Are they toned?
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Lin-Z [linguist on duty]
04/14/09

@morninggloria: I CAN'T TAKE ANYMORE!

(even though I know you are joking)
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