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New York, 3:34 AM
Fri Dec 4
68 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of prettycool prettycool
    12/03/09

    In reply to "Pornography Hasn't Changed Their Perception Of Women": A Porn Study's (Very) Limited Findings
    If a guy thinks that I'm getting off while going down on him, then yeah, maybe cut down on the porn. Or have more sexual encounters to balance it out.
     Reply
    prettycool was starred prettycool was unstarred
    Image of roadrunnerbeepbeep roadrunnerbeepbeep
    12/03/09

    @prettycool: Huh? Are you saying no one can get off on going down on someone else? Because I'd kind of bet you're wrong there.
     Reply
    roadrunnerbeepbeep was starred roadrunnerbeepbeep was unstarred
    Image of f-words f-words
    12/03/09

    @roadrunnerbeepbeep: I assume she meant actually having an orgasm, rather than the colloquial meaning of "getting off."
     Reply
    prettycool promoted this comment f-words was starred f-words was unstarred
    Image of prettycool prettycool
    12/03/09

    @f-words: Yes, I meant that I'm not cumming while I go down on a guy, although its a great turn on. And by "balancing out" I meant the more girls a guy is with, a better understanding he'll get to what arouses others etc. (hopefully)

    Sorry, I didn't meant to be so confusing.
     Reply
    prettycool was starred prettycool was unstarred
    Image of Rooo sez BISH PLZ Rooo sez BISH PLZ
    12/03/09

    In reply to "Pornography Hasn't Changed Their Perception Of Women": A Porn Study's (Very) Limited Findings
    Lazy, lazy research. I'm rather appalled it was published. Multiple times.

    But, unfortunately, I'm almost not surprised. Kyriarchs don't necessarily feel they have to rely on logic to buttress their viewpoints. That's for commoners.
    *sigh*
     Reply
    Rooo sez BISH PLZ was starred Rooo sez BISH PLZ was unstarred
    Image of Snizzy-Snazz Bullets Snizzy-Snazz Bullets
    12/03/09

    In reply to "Pornography Hasn't Changed Their Perception Of Women": A Porn Study's (Very) Limited Findings
    Well, personally speaking...

    After watching some Japanese nostril porn on a whim, I just can't quite look at anyone's nose the same.
     Reply
    PilgrimSoul promoted this comment Snizzy-Snazz Bullets was starred Snizzy-Snazz Bullets was unstarred
    Image of Scout Scout
    12/03/09

    @Snizzy-Snazz Bullets: i'm afraid to google that. very.
     Reply
    Scout was starred Scout was unstarred
    Image of Snizzy-Snazz Bullets Snizzy-Snazz Bullets
    12/03/09

    @Scout: If it helps you at all, there's no penis-in-nostril action. Just weird plastic hooks that pull the nostril a little wider while the girl pretends to enjoy it.

    Actually, maybe you should still be afraid.
     Reply
    Snizzy-Snazz Bullets was starred Snizzy-Snazz Bullets was unstarred
    Image of Scout Scout
    12/03/09

    @Snizzy-Snazz Bullets: the actual description IS more disturbing than my initial idea.

    still afraid.
     Reply
    Scout was starred Scout was unstarred
    Image of ozu ozu
    12/03/09

    @Snizzy-Snazz Bullets: I really wonder what the market for this kind of video was before the internet. Did it exist in 1972? Or has the prevalence and accessibility of every imaginable kink created a genre out of viewers solely looking for things they haven't seen.

    Hence the existence of Rule 34.
     Reply
    Katxyz promoted this comment ozu was starred ozu was unstarred
    Image of Diziet_Sma Diziet_Sma
    12/03/09

    @Snizzy-Snazz Bullets: *snort!*

    Also, completely unrelated - how come you get to have two different avatar pictures? That's downright favoritism!
     Reply
    Edited by Diziet_Sma at 12/03/09 9:17 PM Diziet_Sma was starred Diziet_Sma was unstarred
    Image of PilgrimSoul PilgrimSoul
    12/03/09

    In reply to "Pornography Hasn't Changed Their Perception Of Women": A Porn Study's (Very) Limited Findings
    The thing is, I'm not sure anyone can design a study that could settle this question. I mean, I'm not sure I'd be satisfied with a 2000 men sample either, or even more comforted by it. I just think these questions are fraught and complicated and certainly self-reporting doesn't get one anywhere in terms of assessing whether one has the "right" attitudes about sex - whatever that means.

    I'd rather spend time examining and talking about particular pieces of pornography and the effects they may or may not have on people than these kinds of global generalizations, if only because, from my generally... skeptical attitude towards porn, I get tired of having the same damn fight every time about how there's this artist or that artist WHO TOTALLY MAKES PROGRESSIVE FEMINIST PORN OMG DON'T LUMP IT ALL TOGETHER.
     Reply
    PilgrimSoul was starred PilgrimSoul was unstarred
    Image of Zombie Ms. Skittles Zombie Ms. Skittles
    12/03/09

    @PilgrimSoul: Well, the other issue with sample size is that it's a self-selecting sample at this point. Any guy who's NEVER watched porn in his life in America probably is either very religious or very feminist from a young age, either of which would skew the results.
     Reply
    Zombie Ms. Skittles was starred Zombie Ms. Skittles was unstarred
    Image of yvanehtnioj yvanehtnioj
    12/03/09

    @PilgrimSoul: I prefer that fight to I LOVE TO HAVE THE SHIT KICKED OUT OF ME AND IF YOU THINK THAT SHOULDN'T BE PART OF EVERY PORN VID EVER YOU ARE A BORING VANILLA CENSOR NAZI.
     Reply
    yvanehtnioj was starred yvanehtnioj was unstarred
    Image of PilgrimSoul PilgrimSoul
    12/03/09

    @yvanehtnioj: DO YOU NOT REALIZE YOU'RE SIDING WITH PHYLLIS SCHLAFLY HERE?
     Reply
    PilgrimSoul was starred PilgrimSoul was unstarred
    Image of yvanehtnioj yvanehtnioj
    12/03/09

    @PilgrimSoul: SHE SIGNED A RELEASE FORM IT'S NOT RAPE!
     Reply
    yvanehtnioj was starred yvanehtnioj was unstarred
    Image of HistoricUpstart HistoricUpstart
    12/03/09

    @yvanehtnioj: HAVING A DUDE CHOKE AND HIT ME DURING SEX IS TOTES HOT AND EMPOWERFUL IF I CHOOSE IT 'CAUSE IM A WOMAN AND IM MAKING THE CHOICE STOP OPPRESSING ME WITH YOUR MCKINNON SHIT OLD LADY!!!
     Reply
    Edited by HistoricUpstart at 12/03/09 5:44 PM HistoricUpstart was starred HistoricUpstart was unstarred
    Image of LilyBonesBurana LilyBonesBurana
    12/03/09

    @HistoricUpstart: EMPOWERFUL!

    Put it on a T-shirt, ladygirl.
     Reply
    LilyBonesBurana was starred LilyBonesBurana was unstarred
    Image of olowokandi olowokandi
    12/03/09

    @LilyBonesBurana: Empowerful reminds me of when the president of Susan G. Komen for the Cure was on Meet the Press 2 weeks ago.
     Reply
    HistoricUpstart promoted this comment olowokandi was starred olowokandi was unstarred
    Image of deeemer deeemer
    12/03/09

    @yvanehtnioj: I love this discussion. I am so tired of the "signing a release form" discussion.
     Reply
    deeemer was starred deeemer was unstarred
    Image of 5ft of fury 5ft of fury
    12/03/09

    @PilgrimSoul: Yeah. I wish so much that in conversations about porn we would focus on porn and it's effects as a commodity, rather than trying to make Western produced, hetero porn somehow into a value judgement or world wide generalization about sex. There needs to be a distinction between porn as a commodity and industry, and the way people interact with it personally. I don't think that people's own sex lives should or need to be put on trial when we talk about porn. Especially because we still can't even define what "conventional" sex is, so how can we think of applying moral judgements to "conventional" and then un-conventional sex and people's preferences (which it should be noted, are not set in stone). By focusing on human sexuality and people's personal preferences, we lose sight of being able to look at how porn, as a product, is a commodity and how that might indicate social patterns.
     Reply
    HistoricUpstart promoted this comment 5ft of fury was starred 5ft of fury was unstarred
    Image of Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
    12/03/09

    In reply to "Pornography Hasn't Changed Their Perception Of Women": A Porn Study's (Very) Limited Findings
    If they're in college now they were likely born in 1990 or after, meaning they hit puberty with help from the internet. Sort of hard to figure out how that might have changed their perception of women in the first place.

    Also, 20 guys? Control group or no, that's a pretty small sampling.
     Reply
    Edited by Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! at 12/03/09 5:16 PM Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! was starred Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! was unstarred
    Image of Lymed Lymed
    12/03/09

    In reply to "Pornography Hasn't Changed Their Perception Of Women": A Porn Study's (Very) Limited Findings
    Thinking back to my women studies classes of long ago, I seem to remember discussing porn having more of a negative impact when watched in groups of men. It had to do with the group talking about the behavior in the porn so that it makes the behavior non-taboo or even encourages certain behaviors.
     Reply
    Lymed was starred Lymed was unstarred
    Image of Cerridwen Cerridwen
    12/03/09

    In reply to "Pornography Hasn't Changed Their Perception Of Women": A Porn Study's (Very) Limited Findings
    What exactly does "conventional" sex mean, anyway? And "conventional" by whose standards? Just because it is conventional does not mean it is unproblematic. All that "conventional" means to me is that it is normalized or common. If you buy the argument that porn normalizes problematic sex, then the conclusion that porn is harmless because men who view it engage in "conventional" sex doesn't really hold water, unless you define what you mean by conventional.

    Also, you don't have to have a "pathological" sexuality (again, how is pathology defined in this study?) to have had porn shape and inform your views on sex.
     Reply
    Cerridwen was starred Cerridwen was unstarred
    Image of ytuhermanotambien ytuhermanotambien
    12/03/09

    @Cerridwen: And wouldn't it be a bad thing if all these porn-watchers only have "conventional" sex-- i.e., sex just like in the conventional porn they're watching?
     Reply
    Cerridwen promoted this comment ytuhermanotambien was starred ytuhermanotambien was unstarred
    Image of Cerridwen Cerridwen
    12/03/09

    @ytuhermanotambien: Well, it depends on the conventions of the porn they're watching, but very possibly.
     Reply
    Cerridwen was starred Cerridwen was unstarred
    Image of TurnItOff TurnItOff
    12/03/09

    @Cerridwen: The problematic statements the researcher wrote (such as the "conventional" sex or that the men's views of women weren't
    "changed") were what led me to believe this study was entirely put together to make the guy feel better about his use of porn. I honestly feel like mainstream porn (at least in the US) is very harmful and degrading to women and probably relationships in general. I'd rather that there be less studies that are so defensive and rationalizing treating women like shit, and just people trying to make better fucking porn.
     Reply
    yvanehtnioj promoted this comment TurnItOff was starred TurnItOff was unstarred
    Image of mirrorghost mirrorghost
    12/03/09

    @TurnItOff:

    . I'd rather that there be less studies that are so defensive and rationalizing treating women like shit, and just people trying to make better fucking porn.

    me too. i saw an interview with lydia lunch and this is along the lines of what she said. she said less porn does not need to be made, but MORE porn, and more by women. she went on to say that most porn producers are middle-aged men, so that what you have is a saturation of their sexual fantasies, when there is a whole diverse group of people that should be tapped into. obviously i'm paraphrasing here, but i think she's onto something there.
     Reply
    Katxyz promoted this comment mirrorghost was starred mirrorghost was unstarred
    Image of clevernamehere clevernamehere
    12/03/09

    In reply to "Pornography Hasn't Changed Their Perception Of Women": A Porn Study's (Very) Limited Findings
    Why do we have two posts on this when none of the editors have read the original article?

    The only way I can think of to get a control group would be to randomize young boys and actively monitor their ability to access porn for years (not so practical). Grown men who watch and don’t watch porn would be expected to be different in lots of ways that cannot just be chalked up to porn.

    Lots of qualitative research interviews small numbers. You can go much more in depth with long interviews and find out things you might not know to include on a survey. Sometimes people use this info to do a bigger quantitative study, but sometimes they don't.

    I couldn't find the actual paper, but I think this is actually prelim research for his dissertation, so I would guess there will be a bigger study.

    I don't think this is supposed to be the study that explains porn, its just another piece in the literature to build off of.
     Reply
    clevernamehere was starred clevernamehere was unstarred
    Image of Rooo sez BISH PLZ Rooo sez BISH PLZ
    12/03/09

    @clevernamehere: "Why do we have two posts on this when none of the editors have read the original article?"

    Why are your remarks so frequently apologist for what observation and common sense can determine are (often veiled) misogynist attitudes and behavior, tangentially attacking anyone who dares criticize them -- irrespective of the degree of warpage in the research methodology?
     Reply
    Rooo sez BISH PLZ was starred Rooo sez BISH PLZ was unstarred
    Image of deeemer deeemer
    12/03/09

    @Rooo sez BISH PLZ: Exactly. I feel like this article is another example of a - oh, sorry - PRELIMINARY finding that women being filmed in every kind of porn imaginable is actually, um, beneficial. That's right! Do not hurt the porn industry! Too much money is riding on this!
     Reply
    deeemer was starred deeemer was unstarred
    Image of sharkie792 sharkie792
    12/03/09

    @deeemer: interesting -- "do not hurt the porn industry."

    i've been thinking about this one a lot lately. they're basically as unregulated as it gets... and they have a very powerful lobbyiest in washington who won a case based on freedom of speech that allows pornographers to make and distribute images of child pornography (not actual photos, but drawings, cartoons, reenactments, etc.).

    i don't know the exact details, but i saw it in the doc 'the price of pleasure.'
     Reply
    deeemer promoted this comment sharkie792 was starred sharkie792 was unstarred
    Image of Diziet_Sma Diziet_Sma
    12/03/09

    In reply to "Pornography Hasn't Changed Their Perception Of Women": A Porn Study's (Very) Limited Findings
    So, there was no control group and the study group consisted of 20 men. 20. Two. Zero. TWENTY.

    Fuck off.
     Reply
    Diziet_Sma was starred Diziet_Sma was unstarred
    Image of InABook InABook
    12/03/09

    @Diziet_Sma: Survey studies don't have control groups, though... there wasn't an actual experiment, was there?
     Reply
    winner promoted this comment InABook was starred InABook was unstarred
    Image of winner winner
    12/03/09

    @InABook: Correct. There was not.
     Reply
    winner was starred winner was unstarred
    Image of ytuhermanotambien ytuhermanotambien
    12/03/09

    @InABook: But if the author could compare the responses of men who don't watch porn to those who do, he might be able to distinguish if porn had an effect on their views.
     Reply
    Diziet_Sma promoted this comment ytuhermanotambien was starred ytuhermanotambien was unstarred
    Image of theKP theKP
    12/03/09

    @InABook: The researcher was evidently looking for a control group though. The linked article is about how he had to change/cancel part of the study because he couldn't find any men who hadn't seen porn. He initially wanted to see if there were any differences between non-porn watchers and porn watchers. Not clear on why he couldn't have compared men who watch porn regularly with men who don't instead, but he maybe he did. His methodology isn't clear from the two reports of his findings.
     Reply
    Diziet_Sma promoted this comment theKP was starred theKP was unstarred
    Image of InABook InABook
    12/03/09

    @ytuhermanotambien: @theKP Right, and it would have been awesome if he'd had one-- but I don't think that not having one is a reason to discount things completely. That said, we still don't know the methodology, and it might suck, but if we're going to criticize, i want to know real reasons deserving of it.
     Reply
    InABook was starred InABook was unstarred
    Image of AndPreciousLittleofThat AndPreciousLittleofThat
    12/03/09

    In reply to "Pornography Hasn't Changed Their Perception Of Women": A Porn Study's (Very) Limited Findings
    Porn is just erotica without imagination.

    Which, I dare say, is why so many men like it.
     Reply
    AndPreciousLittleofThat was starred AndPreciousLittleofThat was unstarred
    Image of PilgrimSoul PilgrimSoul
    12/03/09

    @AndPreciousLittleofThat: Uh oh, you've gone and said something mean about "many men"! Watch out!
     Reply
    PilgrimSoul was starred PilgrimSoul was unstarred
    Image of MyNameIsChris MyNameIsChris
    12/03/09

    @AndPreciousLittleofThat: Romantic comedies are just the notion of romance without imagination.

    Which, I dare say, is why so many women like them.

    (I don't actually believe this statement or your's... they just strike me as funny)
     Reply
    MyNameIsChris was starred MyNameIsChris was unstarred
    Image of Katxyz Katxyz
    12/03/09

    @AndPreciousLittleofThat:

    "Erotica is what I like. Porn is what those other people like."

    Unless you provide an objective definition of both porn and erotica that shows they are clearly separate and cannot overlap, that is more or less what you said and it's a bit of a cliche.
     Reply
    Katxyz was starred Katxyz was unstarred
    Image of AndPreciousLittleofThat AndPreciousLittleofThat
    12/03/09

    @Katxyz: Thanks for taking some time away from your busy day job, Dr. Drew.

    Erotica is written. Porn moves. Draw your own fucking Venn diagram.
     Reply
    AndPreciousLittleofThat was starred AndPreciousLittleofThat was unstarred
    Image of jinxedluck jinxedluck
    12/03/09

    @AndPreciousLittleofThat: I disagree with this. I think that these terms do need to be defined before assuming that everyone holds the same definition as you. In a women's studies class I took, the textbook differentiated between porn and erotica by defining porn as something that objectifies women and erotica as something that does not.
     Reply
    Katxyz promoted this comment Edited by jinxedluck at 12/03/09 5:17 PM jinxedluck was starred jinxedluck was unstarred
    Image of Katxyz Katxyz
    12/03/09

    @AndPreciousLittleofThat: Not according to the dictionary, or in my experience, colloquial usage.

    Regardless, you should train your hackles to rise a little less quickly if you are going to say insulting, generalized things that are easily misinterpreted and that you did not expand on very much.

    How is written pornography more imaginative than filmed pornography?
     Reply
    Edited by Katxyz at 12/03/09 5:22 PM Katxyz was starred Katxyz was unstarred
    Image of AndPreciousLittleofThat AndPreciousLittleofThat
    12/03/09

    @jinxedluck: You could drive pickukp trucks through the holes in those definitions.

    But hey, why don't we look around for better ones together? Wikipedia defines erotica as material intended to be erotically/sexually arousing, and porn as the DEPICTION OF ACTS in a sensational manner so as to arouse a quick intense emotional reaction.

    If it's written, it ain't porn. And if it moves, it ain't erotica. Porn, then, can be situationally defined as moving erotica, OR, erotic material in which the imagining is already done for you.
     Reply
    AndPreciousLittleofThat was starred AndPreciousLittleofThat was unstarred
    Image of winner winner
    12/03/09

    @AndPreciousLittleofThat: And women too!

    Erotica is just too much of an investment at times.
     Reply
    winner was starred winner was unstarred
    Image of jinxedluck jinxedluck
    12/03/09

    @AndPreciousLittleofThat: Yes, absolutely. I wasn't trying to use the example as the be-all end-all definition, merely trying to say that there are differing definitions.
     Reply
    jinxedluck was starred jinxedluck was unstarred
    Image of AndPreciousLittleofThat AndPreciousLittleofThat
    12/03/09

    @Katxyz: Don't talk about my hackles. I've spent thousands of man-hours training them to look like that, and I don't appreciate comments from the hoi polloi.

    To answer your question, I never said that filmed pornography is more "imaginative" than written erotica. I said, and still maintain, that erotica requires some use of the imagination (which is different than being "imaginative"). Filmed pornography requires no imagination whatsoever. It's already laid out there for you on the screen; you can just turn off your brain. No thanks.
     Reply
    AndPreciousLittleofThat was starred AndPreciousLittleofThat was unstarred
    Image of Trulymadlyme Trulymadlyme
    12/03/09

    @AndPreciousLittleofThat: Erotica isn't just written. Many people view erotic artistic materials to encompass videographic and photographic mediums. You might wanna check yourself.
     Reply
    Trulymadlyme was starred Trulymadlyme was unstarred
    Image of Katxyz Katxyz
    12/03/09

    @AndPreciousLittleofThat: Well, even if it requires more imagination, using it versus pornography doesn't say anything about the personality of the user, much less men or women in general. I dont think you would appreciate it if someone said erotica is for women who lack imagination, since they can't just masturbate with unaided mental fantasies.
     Reply
    Edited by Katxyz at 12/03/09 9:31 PM Katxyz was starred Katxyz was unstarred
    Image of AndPreciousLittleofThat AndPreciousLittleofThat
    12/03/09

    @Trulymadlyme: Too late! I have already wrecked myself.
     Reply
    AndPreciousLittleofThat was starred AndPreciousLittleofThat was unstarred
    Image of labeled labeled
    12/03/09

    In reply to "Pornography Hasn't Changed Their Perception Of Women": A Porn Study's (Very) Limited Findings
    I've been married to one man for almost 20 years.

    My 1-20 findings are that it isn't always how he feels (about porn and his perceptions about my body may or not be measuring up) that need to necessarily be the main thrust (ah, hah) of the issue.

    ETA: Silly skewed findings.
     Reply
    Edited by labeled at 12/03/09 4:52 PM labeled was starred labeled was unstarred
    Image of PilgrimSoul PilgrimSoul
    12/03/09

    In reply to "Pornography Hasn't Changed Their Perception Of Women": A Porn Study's (Very) Limited Findings
    Yeah it seems to me this study is equivalent to that time I sat in a Montreal bar with some male friends who tried to "explain" that they totes believed in equality for ladies but why did I want to take away their porn attraction is subjective is it their fault they love porn and wah wah wah. Then I got myself another vodka and cranberry and changed the subject.
     Reply
    PilgrimSoul was starred PilgrimSoul was unstarred
    Image of la.donna.pietra la.donna.pietra
    12/03/09

    @PilgrimSoul: Cranberry juice? Are you on your period?
     Reply
    la.donna.pietra was starred la.donna.pietra was unstarred
    Image of PilgrimSoul PilgrimSoul
    12/03/09

    @la.donna.pietra: This was undergrad. I have no better explanation than that it was an extremely popular drink in Montreal in 1998.
     Reply
    PilgrimSoul was starred PilgrimSoul was unstarred
    Image of la.donna.pietra la.donna.pietra
    12/03/09

    @PilgrimSoul: Oh, no judgment whatsoever. I just couldn't pass up The Departed reference.
     Reply
    la.donna.pietra was starred la.donna.pietra was unstarred
    Image of Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
    12/03/09

    @la.donna.pietra: That movie was weird with the period references. I think Scorcese must have been going through male menopause.
     Reply
    Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! was starred Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! was unstarred
    Image of Zombie Ms. Skittles Zombie Ms. Skittles
    12/03/09

    In reply to "Pornography Hasn't Changed Their Perception Of Women": A Porn Study's (Very) Limited Findings
    I've talked to 20 guys, can I be a porno expert now?
     Reply
    Zombie Ms. Skittles was starred Zombie Ms. Skittles was unstarred
    Image of BeckySharper BeckySharper
    12/03/09

    @Zombie Ms. Skittles: exactly. I don't know how this study even qualifies as legit. I could reproduce it hanging out with my brothers and their friends in our basement on a weekend night.
     Reply
    BeckySharper was starred BeckySharper was unstarred
    Image of winner winner
    12/03/09

    @BeckySharper: This is just the survey. I believe the study is currently in progress.
     Reply
    winner was starred winner was unstarred
    Image of BeckySharper BeckySharper
    12/03/09

    @winner: They're going to need a hell of a lot more people as a sample.
     Reply
    BeckySharper was starred BeckySharper was unstarred
    Image of winner winner
    12/03/09

    @BeckySharper: Word. And maybe stop looking for men who have never viewed porn and start looking for men who have been in long term relationships or somesuch.
     Reply
    winner was starred winner was unstarred
    Image of pesematology pesematology
    12/02/09

    In reply to Man Vs. Wild (Woman): Intrepid Explorer Exposes Dangerous "Cheetahs"
    I can't even read this. The stupid, it burns.
     Reply
    pesematology was starred pesematology was unstarred
    Image of BytheSea BytheSea
    12/02/09

    In reply to Man Vs. Wild (Woman): Intrepid Explorer Exposes Dangerous "Cheetahs"
    I ... is this a straight thing? I have no fucking idea what this article is talking about.
     Reply
    BytheSea was starred BytheSea was unstarred
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