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New York, 9:25 AM
Tue Dec 1
67 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Image of Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC
    11/15/09

    In reply to "Like Something From A Greek Tragedy": Nadya Suleman At Home
    Off-subject, but should she have like, donated the embryos? Or is that a whole 'nother thing? I mean, she makes it sound as though she didn't so much want to have more kids as she didn't want to have the embryos destroyed. I know it's hindsight and the babies are here, but I was just wondering. #octomom
     Reply
    Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC was starred Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC was unstarred
    Image of brendahamLincoln brendahamLincoln
    11/13/09

    In reply to "Like Something From A Greek Tragedy": Nadya Suleman At Home
    Is there anywhere to watch this online? #octomom
     Reply
    brendahamLincoln was starred brendahamLincoln was unstarred
    Image of chancentrate chancentrate
    11/13/09

    In reply to "Like Something From A Greek Tragedy": Nadya Suleman At Home
    The British documentary was on tv here last night, the NY Times guy is in it as well which is all very meta considering this.
    To be honest, I have to say after seeing it, I actually gained a new respect for her. She didn't come across as deluded, or insane or some bat-shit crazy mother. Yes, she clearly has issues regarding her want to have even 6 kids as a single mother, but she didn't ask for 8 more nor did she expect it. And she seems to deal with it incredibly well. To see her in this zoo of a house, kids screaming everywhere and yet she stays level-headed and sane, it's quite something.

    I still think the children will be awfully fucked up and will all need therapy, I think none of them gets enough attention etc. But I do also think she is truly doing the best she can. Really, her mother (who is a complete tyrant), the weird sperm-donor 'friend' and the doctor who implanted her with 6 embryos rather than the legal 2 should all be examined as well. She didn't get to this situation on her own, which is something people tend to forget. She didn't want 8 kids and even if she did, the chances of 6 embryos all surviving and 2 of them becoming twins is incredibly unlikely.

    Whatever the case, I'm dying to see how these children turn out. Particularly the eldest, Elijah, who is literally oiling up the wheels to go off the rails any day now... #octomom
     Reply
    gherkinfiend promoted this comment chancentrate was starred chancentrate was unstarred
    Image of gherkinfiend gherkinfiend
    11/13/09

    @chancentrate: Yeah, I watched this documentary last night here in Britain too and have to agree with you on all your points.

    However I'm wondering why this article keeps mentioning squalor? I thought her house was surprisingly clean and neat considering the 14 kids and 5 adults in it everyday. The kids are clean, well dressed and had a tonne of fancy toys.

    I know parenting involves more than just that, but she seemed to be doing well on the practicalities to me. #octomom
     Reply
    gherkinfiend was starred gherkinfiend was unstarred
    Image of Maritsa Maritsa
    11/13/09

    @chancentrate: I have to disagree on one point. Any woman who has previously had successful IVF, which she did, and who is still young, which she is, who didn't think 6 frozen embryos would result in multiples IS deluded or at the least incredibly and recklessly misinformed about IVF. Frozen embryos have to the best of the best - clinics only freeze embryos that are top quality - making them more likely to implant and develop.

    Of course, had she had a responsibly doctor, it wouldn't be an issue because he wouldn't have transferred 6 and would have explained the risks to her. But she doesn't get a pass on that point. What she did was very reckless and she's lucky that all of the babies lived and none seems to have serious issues. #octomom
     Reply
    Maritsa was starred Maritsa was unstarred
    Image of chancentrate chancentrate
    11/13/09

    @Maritsa: Every other time she had a kid they implanted 5 embryos and only one would result in a child. In one case it became twins. But otherwise, she had no reason to believe the this many embryos would yield any more than one child. #octomom
     Reply
    chancentrate was starred chancentrate was unstarred
    Image of chancentrate chancentrate
    11/13/09

    @gherkinfiend: I totally agree about the cleanliness!! I remember at one point she was int eh kitchen, and she was drying her hand with a paper towel or something, and I remember thinking, christ that kichen is so clean. How does she even have time to re-fill her paper towel holder?? #octomom
     Reply
    chancentrate was starred chancentrate was unstarred
    Image of Maritsa Maritsa
    11/13/09

    @chancentrate: Not true, she previously had fraternal twins, so she may not have anticipated 2 of the 6 splitting into identicals, but she knew there was a risk of at least twins, if not more. Any time you have a transfer of more than one you are at a pretty big risk of having multiples. The twin rate for IVF is about 40%, and that's with most people transferring two or three embryos. And she was a young woman with previous IVF pregnancies, which makes her likelihood of getting pregnant even higher.

    I mostly blame the doctor - he's since been expelled from the ASRM for his practices. I'm not trying to condemn her, I don't think she's evil, but I do think she was willfully ignorant, at best. And on a personal level as someone who's done IVF, people like her who abuse it make me insane, because they lead to things like half-assed legislation (see, Georgia) seeking to limit other people's ART choices. #octomom
     Reply
    Maritsa was starred Maritsa was unstarred
    Image of southwer southwer
    11/13/09

    @Maritsa: well, and then there's the question of selective reduction. So you have a doctor who very irresponsibly implants EIGHT high-quality embryos, and time passes, and you see you are pregnant with eight fetuses. What was the conversation then around selective reduction? The human body is generally meant to gestate one baby at a time - even twins have a higher rate of developmental problems than singletons. Trying to have eight babies at one time is just a bad idea, in terms of their health, not even to speak of the mother's health. If you are a person who KNOWS that you would not take advantage of selective reduction if you were pregnant with more than two embryos, than you should probably never have more than two embryos transferred at a time. #octomom
     Reply
    Maritsa promoted this comment southwer was starred southwer was unstarred
    Image of Maritsa Maritsa
    11/13/09

    @southwer: I agree w/r/t selective reduction.

    It's not like stuffing 6 in there increases the chance of any single embryo turning into a baby. An embryo will either continue to develop, or not. Multiple transfers would have been just as effective. She still could have used up all of her embroys, just in 3 transfers rather than one. And frozen transfers, while not cheap, are not prohibitively expensive. #octomom
     Reply
    Maritsa was starred Maritsa was unstarred
    Image of AmesAndAndel AmesAndAndel
    11/13/09

    In reply to "Like Something From A Greek Tragedy": Nadya Suleman At Home
    After reading the full article in the nytimes, I was surprised at how positive a picture they painted of her; one of the filmmakers pointing out that she 'lives in the moment' actually explains her entire situation. She's impulsive, she doesn't think through things, so she ended up with lots of babies.

    I don't think she should be judged.

    Society's reaction toward her decision reinforces the idea that children are luxuries that only middle class and upper class people are entitled to. We view children as status symbols and extensions of ourselves, instead of living creatures that start off small but will eventually take care of us all.

    As long as our society remains child-unfriendly (as in, childcare is too expensive, working mothers get punished in the workplace for being mothers, people are judged if they have kids 'too soon' or wait 'too long'), this endless cycle of judging mothers will never end.

    All loving mothers should be appreciated, no matter their circumstances. #octomom
     Reply
    Kaila Hale-Stern approved this comment AmesAndAndel was starred AmesAndAndel was unstarred
    Image of miscelaineous miscelaineous
    11/12/09

    In reply to "Like Something From A Greek Tragedy": Nadya Suleman At Home
    It's getting harder and harder for me to read the Times magazine. It's more of an upscale, sans serif celeb mag on the inside than an old American publication. I think I wish it still embodied its older charm, but they've cut it down and literally cut out a lot of the dry reporting that used to challenge me, at least a little, every Sunday.

    It reminds me more of New York magazine in its design, now, and it has that same expose-a-celebrity motive now. Bummer. I'll stick with the NY Times for its newspaper and web slideshows, but the blogging and new "accessible" (my own assessment) is just a little too much.

    It's only problematic for me because it's become easier to read. I mean, these pieces about actresses as overturned stones with crawly bugs underneath are well-written and eloquent, but after I'm done.... well, that was it?

    Does anyone else feel this way? Maybe what they say is true, the Times has always been written for an 8th grader's reading level. I used to resent that, but now I'm just a little pissed at it. #octomom
     Reply
    Maritsa promoted this comment miscelaineous was starred miscelaineous was unstarred
    Image of Birthday Girl Birthday Girl
    11/12/09

    In reply to "Like Something From A Greek Tragedy": Nadya Suleman At Home
    It just seems like such a terrible waste to me, which I know is an odd reaction. She clearly can't handle 14 children and ultimately it will be the kids who bear the consequence of that. Someone out there, there are hundreds of well-educated, financially stable, perfectly nice couples who can't have children and would just DIE to have one of these kids and raise him/her as their own.

    Love, though central to motherhood, is also blinding. The right decision would have been for her to give these kids up to well-suited families. That would have been the best thing she could have done for them. #octomom
     Reply
    la.donna.pietra promoted this comment Birthday Girl was starred Birthday Girl was unstarred
    Image of la.donna.pietra la.donna.pietra
    11/13/09

    @Birthday Girl: It would be extraordinarily difficult for her autistic son to be adopted, largely because relatively few adoptive parents are interested in kids with disabilities--especially behavioral and developmental disabilities. #octomom
     Reply
    la.donna.pietra was starred la.donna.pietra was unstarred
    Image of sailorsong sailorsong
    11/12/09

    In reply to "Like Something From A Greek Tragedy": Nadya Suleman At Home
    This situation, and picure, remind me of The Simpsons episode wherein Apu and Manjula put their eight kids in a sort of... child zoo? for profit. #octomom
     Reply
    sailorsong was starred sailorsong was unstarred
    Image of kung fu lola kung fu lola
    11/13/09

    @sailorsong: That literally happened to the Dionne Quintuplets. They lived in a specially-constructed edifice that had a playground which was open for "public viewing". [en.wikipedia.org] #octomom
     Reply
    Maritsa promoted this comment kung fu lola was starred kung fu lola was unstarred
    Image of KnickersFace KnickersFace
    11/12/09

    In reply to "Like Something From A Greek Tragedy": Nadya Suleman At Home
    My grandparents on my dad's side come from families where there were 16 and 18 kids. They were catholic families from the north of England, and had absolutely no money.. they did fine. My point is, if she were catholic and said that she had this many babies for religious reasons, would she be so incredibly frowned upon? #octomom
     Reply
    philoclea promoted this comment KnickersFace was starred KnickersFace was unstarred
    Image of philoclea philoclea
    11/12/09

    @KnickersFace: Sure. #octomom
     Reply
    philoclea was starred philoclea was unstarred
    Image of philoclea philoclea
    11/12/09

    @philoclea: I mean, some people would indeed frown on that anyway. But the real point is that the comparison is inaccurate. If you have 18 kids naturally, most of them are not born at the same time, nu? The older kids can help take care of the younger ones, they can help with chores, and clothes can be handed down. Having eight babies at the same time is insane, and her oldest daughter is seven, so unlikely to be as much help as even a twelve-year old might be. #octomom
     Reply
    philoclea was starred philoclea was unstarred
    Image of Maritsa Maritsa
    11/12/09

    @KnickersFace: Yes. Have you ever read a post about the Duggars here? #octomom
     Reply
    Maritsa was starred Maritsa was unstarred
    Image of Habibiti Habibiti
    11/12/09

    @philoclea: Yes. My grandparents were Lebanese Catholic and each came from families of 10+ children. But one family was extremely wealthy in Beirut, and could afford to send all their children to schools. The other family ran a farm and subsisted mostly off of what they grew themselves. Suleman has neither option, nor do most families in the US. We simply do not live in a world where that many children is sustainable in a household - let alone a single parent household. #octomom
     Reply
    philoclea promoted this comment Habibiti was starred Habibiti was unstarred
    Image of philoclea philoclea
    11/12/09

    @Habibiti: Thanks -- I was going to add the "farm" idea -- that a lot of kids can actually help with labour around the farm, or do handywork. I guess the only labour Suleman's kids are capable of is the one they're doing -- being actors. #octomom
     Reply
    philoclea was starred philoclea was unstarred
    Image of Habibiti Habibiti
    11/12/09

    @philoclea: I agree. Part of being a family is learning to help each other and becoming a team. But Suleman's children are not going to get the option of *learning* how to take pride in being a participating member of a family - she is essentially forcing them to take care of themselves from their birth. I would understand if in the future her children felt resentful of the responsibility she's given them. #octomom
     Reply
    Habibiti was starred Habibiti was unstarred
    Image of rednrowdy rednrowdy
    11/12/09

    @KnickersFace: catholic families for the most part don't have eight babies all at once. 10 kids spaces out over time might be a lot, but it's far more manageable. #octomom
     Reply
    rednrowdy was starred rednrowdy was unstarred
    Image of UKinUSA UKinUSA
    11/14/09

    @philoclea: But that's not raising your children yourself. That's passing on the responsibility to your other children. How is that a good thing? #octomom
     Reply
    philoclea promoted this comment UKinUSA was starred UKinUSA was unstarred
    Image of UKinUSA UKinUSA
    11/14/09

    @rednrowdy: You think so? Children of all different ages are extremely difficult to take care of. #octomom
     Reply
    rednrowdy promoted this comment UKinUSA was starred UKinUSA was unstarred
    Image of philoclea philoclea
    11/14/09

    @UKinUSA: I suppose you're one of those people who think that children who are not accompanied by their mother 24/7 are neglected, right?

    News flash: it's fine for grandparents, neighbours, friends, older siblings, aunts, cousins, nannies, teachers, etc. to have a hand in raising kids. That is the way it used to be done, before some people decided a woman had to be shackled to her progeny until death. Actually, it's even fine for kids to be on their own every now and then.

    As for "passing on the responsibility," you are confusing daily chores with the much more serious business of parenting, namely providing the kind of moral, social, and emotional structure and support that children need to become mature and well-adjusted adults. Big sis or bro can watch over the baby of an evening, but the responsibility for both children remains the parents'. #octomom
     Reply
    philoclea was starred philoclea was unstarred
    Image of rednrowdy rednrowdy
    11/16/09

    @UKinUSA: kids that are spaced out in age can watch each other when they get older. also, kids that are spaced out in age won't all wake up for 3am feedings at the same time. #octomom
     Reply
    rednrowdy was starred rednrowdy was unstarred
    Image of quatrevingtquatre quatrevingtquatre
    11/12/09

    In reply to "Like Something From A Greek Tragedy": Nadya Suleman At Home
    SO FRUSTRATING. She is inarticulate and has the sadly flawed judgement of a 16 year old girl on Maury Povich who thinks having babies will give her the family she's always wanted. I want nothing bad to come to those children, but their mother is just so unfortunate. #octomom
     Reply
    MargaretMoony promoted this comment quatrevingtquatre was starred quatrevingtquatre was unstarred
    Image of MargaretMoony MargaretMoony
    11/12/09

    @quatrevingtquatre: Thats so true. #octomom
     Reply
    MargaretMoony was starred MargaretMoony was unstarred
    Image of la.donna.pietra la.donna.pietra
    11/13/09

    @quatrevingtquatre: The thing that boggles my mind is the 16-year-old Maury guest usually figures out after kid one that motherhood isn't a walk in the park. She didn't clue into that after six?? #octomom
     Reply
    la.donna.pietra was starred la.donna.pietra was unstarred
    Image of JinxyMcDeath JinxyMcDeath
    11/12/09

    In reply to "Like Something From A Greek Tragedy": Nadya Suleman At Home
    I am very angry at this woman. She decided to have kids instead of seeking help. And I'm sick of people claiming to be religious when it's a good excuse to get out of a fucked up thing. "Oh, I couldn't KILL those babies, I'm very religious." How else are you religious, Nadia? In what way? Do you go to church? Because typically people who are SO religious that they believe that destroying embryos is murder usually have some sort of part in their community. Did you go to church BEFORE this happened or is it just now that you need the church-members help and money?

    You know, I make probably twice as much as the average American and I don't believe that I am financially capable of bringing ONE child into this world right now. That's not to say that people who aren't super wealthy and education can't have kids...I'm just saying that you shouldn't be COMPLAINING about an inability to take care of your kids because of your inexplicably low salary while continuing to PROACTIVELY implant embryos in you. She was making $15K a year with 6 kids?

    This lady is a pathological liar. Remember when she said that she never was on public assistance? Lie. Remember when she said that she was totally capable of taking care of her kids because she's getting her Ph.D. or whatever in psychology and could care for them with that degree? Lie. Remember when she said that she never had plastic surgery? Lie.

    This is the same lady that goes out and gets a tattoo (which costs hundreds of dollars) while her kids are at home with a bunch of nannies that are being paid by who? SHE IS A FUCKING NUTCASE. No schaudenfraude here...just total anger. #octomom
     Reply
    JinxyMcDeath was starred JinxyMcDeath was unstarred
    Image of SUNNY1 SUNNY1
    11/12/09

    @JinxyMcDeath: I just want to comment on one thing. Being religious does not necessarily mean you must have a community in which you are active. People practice their religions differently, and while a good many do choose to express their faith by going to church/temple/mosque etc, not doing so doesn't make you fake or irreligious. In the same way, going to church doesn't really mean a damn thing. #octomom
     Reply
    JinxyMcDeath promoted this comment SUNNY1 was starred SUNNY1 was unstarred
    Image of JinxyMcDeath JinxyMcDeath
    11/12/09

    @SUNNY1: That is not my point. My point is becoming "religious" out of convenience. #octomom
     Reply
    JinxyMcDeath was starred JinxyMcDeath was unstarred
    Image of Andraste Andraste
    11/12/09

    @JinxyMcDeath: I totally agree with your comments. The religious card is particularly interesting in light of many who have no problem accepting and using scientific innovations that may provide them with children but demonize other scientific advances that don't jive with their personal agendas. So God gave humans the ability to create fertility treatments but not stem cell research? I just doesn't make sense. #octomom
     Reply
    Maritsa promoted this comment Andraste was starred Andraste was unstarred
    Image of Maritsa Maritsa
    11/13/09

    @Andraste: To be fair (not that those wingnuts deserve fairness!) many people who are against stem cell research are against IVF too, for example, the Catholic Church's official stance is that IVF is wrong. #octomom
     Reply
    Maritsa was starred Maritsa was unstarred
    Image of JessickerFletcher JessickerFletcher
    11/12/09

    In reply to "Like Something From A Greek Tragedy": Nadya Suleman At Home

    Because I love amateur photoshop, I decided to make this. #octomom
     Reply
    JessickerFletcher was starred JessickerFletcher was unstarred
    Image of Sophie needs to study...damn Sophie needs to study...damn
    11/12/09

    @JessickerFletcher: It's my new screensaver. #octomom
     Reply
    Sophie needs to study...damn was starred Sophie needs to study...damn was unstarred
    Image of Casquivana Casquivana
    11/12/09

    In reply to "Like Something From A Greek Tragedy": Nadya Suleman At Home
    Mostly, she confuses and baffles me, but you're right about our own voyeurism and schadenfreude as equally important parts of the equation. All the frustration she seems to provoke stems from our own projections, along with what seems to be her own misguided sense of purpose. She wanted to be a mother. Then what? ...Is like when certain type of people tell you dreamily (faux-dreamily?) that "there's nothing like motherhood" in order to undermine you, and as a passive-aggressive reminder of what you're supposed to aspire, but in this case that phrase takes the wrong turn to become a caricature of the intense desire to have children gone awry. I guess that's the "Greek tragedy" part of it all. She thought she wanted something, she got it, now what? It might as well be her doom. #octomom
     Reply
    boxspelunker promoted this comment Casquivana was starred Casquivana was unstarred
    Image of Rooo sez BISH PLZ Rooo sez BISH PLZ
    11/12/09

    In reply to "Like Something From A Greek Tragedy": Nadya Suleman At Home
    The only thing some of us want from an Octomom story is for it not to appear in any publication of record and for a Jezebel piece to be reproduced instead in the space it would have taken.

    (Unless, of course, it's a Jezebel piece about Octomom, in which case I drown in the conundrum.)
     Reply
    Edited by Rooo sez BISH PLZ at 11/12/09 5:27 PM Rooo sez BISH PLZ was starred Rooo sez BISH PLZ was unstarred
    Image of BoatGirl BoatGirl
    11/12/09

    In reply to "Like Something From A Greek Tragedy": Nadya Suleman At Home
    She's not being cast as a doomed figure, she's being judged. And people have a right to judge other people's actions. If someone's actions have a positive or negative impact on society, society or the individuals in that society have a right to praise or condemn.

    And I'd say that making a decision to give birth to children you do not have the resources to support (either economic or emotional) has a negative impact on society as those damaged children will be interacting with the rest of us for the rest of their lives.

    If we as a society say that everyone gets to do whatever they want and no one should say "You're an idiot," then we all get to be spoiled, obnoxious brats to everyone we interact with. I don't like that world. #octomom
     Reply
    Elaken promoted this comment BoatGirl was starred BoatGirl was unstarred
    Image of DexterHaven DexterHaven
    11/12/09

    @BoatGirl: I'm not sure I like a world where we all go round calling each other idiots so much either. #octomom
     Reply
    DexterHaven was starred DexterHaven was unstarred
    Image of yvanehtnioj yvanehtnioj
    11/12/09

    @BoatGirl: I think this is disingenuous. I mean, come on, everyone thinks that the implantation of 8 embryos as a mother of 6 with little means was either ill-judged, morally wrong, unethical, or all of the above. Let me repeat, EVERYONE thinks that. That's judgment.

    Peeking in her curtains with a camera saying, "has dog smited her yet? When's she going to get her comeuppance? I sure hope things go badly for her" isn't judgment, it's mean-spirited and spiteful. It's this idea that I judged her actions as wrong, now why isn't Fate/ Posterity/ Pajama Man bearing out my judgment by making her life a living hell?! that keeps people coming back for more, and keeps media outlets putting that slant on the story. It's not just judgment, it's self-righteous and mean-spirited.

    If there was a piece saying that she was doing very well, that an anonymous benefactor gave her $50M and she's going to be fine, the kids get all the help they need, she's in therapy and in love, people would go APESHIT BANANAS with rage. Judgment is just the first aspect. Wanting her to suffer because she behaved badly is retribution. And that's what the public wants against this woman. #octomom
     Reply
    yvanehtnioj was starred yvanehtnioj was unstarred
    Image of BoatGirl BoatGirl
    11/12/09

    @yvanehtnioj: But she's the one inviting the cameras in. She's the one making it into a public event and spreading the idea that being on a reality show is a career choice. That leads to the idea that stupidity should be publically rewarded. #octomom
     Reply
    BoatGirl was starred BoatGirl was unstarred
    Image of DexterHaven DexterHaven
    11/12/09

    @BoatGirl: But she makes quite a sensible point when she says 'what else am I going to do?' Now you can get all sorts of angry about a society that commodifies motherhood, and reality shows that perpetuate a sick cycle of personal suffering for entertainment's sake. But it strikes me as senseless to criticise her for doing the one thing she can do to support her children, and which is now presumably paying for their care, so she doesn't live off the state. #octomom
     Reply
    DexterHaven was starred DexterHaven was unstarred
    Image of yvanehtnioj yvanehtnioj
    11/12/09

    @BoatGirl: Stupidity is publicly rewarded in our society. But people are vengeful against Nadya Suleman in a very different way than against the guys on Jackass. #octomom
     Reply
    yvanehtnioj was starred yvanehtnioj was unstarred
    Image of BoatGirl BoatGirl
    11/12/09

    @yvanehtnioj: The guys on Jackass are hurting themselves, not 14 children.
    And should we just accept that stupidity is rewarded and not try to change it? #octomom
     Reply
    BoatGirl was starred BoatGirl was unstarred
    Image of PhillyLass PhillyLass
    11/12/09

    @DexterHaven: Sure, but we're critiquing the compounded consequences of her actions-- she should have considered that the only way to support a circus act of children was an exploitative reality tv show-- and made the choice not to bring children into the world who were destined to be pimped out to the media. #octomom
     Reply
    PhillyLass was starred PhillyLass was unstarred
    Image of yvanehtnioj yvanehtnioj
    11/12/09

    @BoatGirl: Here's the thing: she made a bad decision. A series of bad decisions. Now she's not trying to get pregnant, she's trying to make money. Which she definitely needs, because she has 14 children. Most of those children are the product of bad decisionmaking, yes, but let's avoid the feedback loop if at all possible.

    She needs a lot of money to take care of those kids. The easiest way for someone who isn't a star athlete or brilliant and very educated in our society is to take it to the small screen. If she didn't try to do that, she'd get ripped a new one for not working to put food on the table.

    She hasn't made good decisions, but having the entire country smugly anticipating her eventual total collapse isn't as simple a thing as judgment. And when you act like it is, you're setting up a false dichotomy between

    1. people who think she deserves some kind of epic comeuppance (and therefore judge her decision to have 14 kids she can't afford) and

    2. people who are hoping she gets out of this okay (and therefore celebrate the Having Of Multiple Children You Can't Afford). #octomom
     Reply
    yvanehtnioj was starred yvanehtnioj was unstarred
    Image of whynotshesaid whynotshesaid
    11/12/09

    @DexterHaven: Agreed. I mean, is not going around telling others they are idiots the mark of a spoiled, obnoxious brat as well? #octomom
     Reply
    whynotshesaid was starred whynotshesaid was unstarred
    Image of JayBird JayBird
    11/12/09

    In reply to "Like Something From A Greek Tragedy": Nadya Suleman At Home
    This statement " Nobody lives happily ever after, because that is extremely unrealistic." is an incredible view into her mind.

    I still think the entire situation is wrong from the beginnging, but now the children aren't embryos, but children who have to be raised and fed. I see her point about television being the only way she can support that, but...and I mean this nicely....why did she have ONE child if she only makes $15K a year and has no other means of support?

    My former in laws have six biological and one adopted. Their youngest is only five. The oldest has a child who is also five. They are, without a doubt, the poorest people I have ever met.

    It is ironic to me that the scientific developments that were to spare women from a lifetime of being a brood mare have led us, in a twisted way, back to being brood mares. At eight it's a litter, not a family. #octomom
     Reply
    maude_flanders promoted this comment JayBird was starred JayBird was unstarred
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