I feel like even though this project clashes with my personal beliefs, and the beliefs of most of the Girl Scouts I've met (and being a member for the past 17 years and traveling to two of the Girl Scout/Girl Guide World Centers, I've met a lot), as long as the girl made a good case for her project, did the required work, which is MORE WORK than becoming an Eagle Scout, and it got approved I'm ok with that.
My project might have been sneered at by some: I created a fashion show and accompanying curriculum (part of the ongoing requirement) around history of fashion and appropriate dressing for school and work aimed at girls in late elementary and early middle school. I got to incorporate two of my passions: vintage clothing and helping other girls get a leg up in the business/professional world.
This girl has a passion for her religion. Just because I and many others disagree with it shouldn't be a reason for her to not pursue her passion.
These conversations seem to turn into whose experience of GS sucked vs whose didn't. I think Annie's service is another reason why the GS are a valued organization because you are allowed to have an array of beliefs without discrimination. I don't agree with her viewpoint but maybe in 5 years neither will she.
I suppose we could say that this an example of Girl Scouts' tolerance of other beliefs but I can't help but wonder if this girl would have still gotten her award (or even gotten approved) if she had decided to teach the old Hebrew Laws or the five pillars of Islam. Sadly, I really think not.
@Ohthesarcasm: There's actually no reason to think not. The Girl Scouts as a whole are generally very inclusive of different religions, or lack of religion. They're not the Boy Scouts.
@Ohthesarcasm: I think if she was teaching it at her church, like Annie was, there wouldn't be a problem with it. The organization has no religious ties.
@nora charles: I was in Boy Scouts for years. Myself and others were openly atheist. Two of my openly atheist friends made it to the highest possible rank: Eagle Scout. We even had a girl in our troop.
Please don't hate on the Boy Scouts because the people at the very top of the organization, along with a handful of troops are homophobes and otherwise intolerant. Most groups are actually rather open-minded and in the end they're there to help people. I personally credit the Boy Scouts and the people I met through them as being really good role models that I otherwise wouldn't have had in a very chaotic and unhealthy childhood.
This thread is just making me sad about how shitty my own Girl Scout experience was. JEZ MAMAS, make sure the troop leadership is strong before you throw your daughters in there! Or be a leader yourself. I think I might be someday, just to replace my own bad memories.
Yeah, this project makes me sick to my stomach, but I'd rather see the Girl Scouts stay away from being too prescriptive with the Gold Award subject matter. I was warmly approved for my Gold Award project, starting my high school's first Gay-Straight Alliance, right at the height of media attention on homophobic Boy Scout policies.
If this scout put in the required work, good for her. I'm sure my project would make her cringe just as much as hers makes me cringe. So appearing ignorant and awful to a certain section of the population is just NOT a good enough reason do deny a scout her Gold Award.
I am such a fervent fan of Girl Scouts (I got my Gold Award for instituting a acting workshop in an after-school program for underprivileged middle-school kids), that I just have to defend the organization. This Gold Award project is HIGHLY unusual. To prove it, here's a list of (what I assume is a typical) week's worth of Gold Award completions:
*A Californian raised awareness about a dangerous section of highway. Unfortunately, city officials didn't take action quickly enough and there was a terrible accident there.
*Four Floridian Girl Scouts' created a butterfly garden in memory of a man who worked at their GS camp.
*An MA GS started a program (including website, youthvoteMA.org) to increase voter registration and civic engagement among high school students.
*Six Ma scouts repaired and refurbished a family shelter.
*A girl from NJ raised awareness (and medical supplies) for health issues in Uganda
*Another NJ scout taught pottery to children (and their families) with intellectual disabilities.
These are from the week leading up to April fifth, because I'm having trouble navigating the site.
@katyarizhaya: ALSO THIS IS AMAZING! So many gems I'm not gonna try to quote them all, but it does mention that one GS was applying for a Gold Award project (with support of her troop) to found her own support group for at-risk teens called Queer Youth Exist. Mostly the author just cites all the "scary" statistics and examples about how GSUSA is feminist, not religious, and open to queer membership.
Even when I was a youngster you could earn a Girl Scout award for integrating your scouting with secular humanism (they offer the same for many, many other faiths and belief systems). Girl Scouts is a progressive organization that allows you to be part of any or no faith. It is nothing like the Boy Scouts. Seems to me encouraging a girl to become expert enough in something she believes in to teach it is a worthy project. I'm also guessing that if she was allowed to teach it in schools it was something that would have been offered there to start with.
@bluebears: I don't think she's saying it 'should be' taught there, but there ARE places where it is. This was probably one of those places, particularly if it's a private or religious school.
What if this girl was a Holocaust denier and distributed "the Holocaust was a hoax" materials? I'm not saying that being a Creationist is AS bad as denying the Holocaust, but both movements are extremely misguiding and blatantly ignore the facts.
One should not be rewarded for perpetuating ignorance.
For the record, it appears as though Annie Wichman attends a Christian school, and I'm guessing that's also where she taught her creationism . . . so it's not like she was infiltrating the public schools with it. Then again, if it's a Christian school, they probably already teach creationism to one degree or another, so I'm not sure if that's fulfilling a community need.
Children and religion are a dangerous combination. Children take things very literally, try telling your kids to go fly a kite, when you tell them when they are five that a man lived inside of a fish or that someone rose from the dead they beleive you, just like they belive in Santa Clause. The problem presents itself when the child is eventually told there is no santa and then are never told that it is impossible for anyone to ever rise from the dead. IMO
Well, I don't know. I'm torn on this. Would the Girl Scouts give a gold award to a student who collected science teaching materials and taught science in schools in their community? I believe they would. So on the one hand, I don't have a problem with this, because she took something she was passionate about and worked hard at it, and just because we disagree with her views doesn't necessarily mean she should not be awarded.
But on the other hand, the description of the Girl Scout Gold Award says: "The project is something that fulfills a need within a girl's community (whether local or global), creates change, and hopefully, is something that becomes ongoing." And I don't really see there being a NEED in her community for this, unless schools were desperate to teach creationism and couldn't because they didn't have the materials.
@laureltreedaphne: Not to be cheeky about a serious subject, but precisely what materials could a given community be lacking to "teach" creationism? You can get that book for free pretty much anywhere.
Note: I am against teaching religious myths of any kind in schools, and am not torn in any way. I am also offended by it because I am a Scout; preaching is not part of deal.
@SomeAuthorGirl: Agreed. I worked for the Girls Scouts several years ago and I'm surprised that this was allowed. I also got my Gold Award and the GS were so strict about what we could and could or not do for the project.
I don't think that "won" is the proper verb. Don't you "earn" awards in Girl Scouts? Like you have to do certain things, and you are specifically working to get it. Not like the Girl Scouts choose your specific project like an academy award or something. I don't think that the fact that she was teaching Creationism reflects the ideals of the Girl Scouts as an organization, so people shouldn't think that the organization specifially supports brainwashing small children.
honestly? Good for Annie! All viewpoints should be acknowledged and respected in the girl scouts, and the award should be based on the amount of time and effort spent on working with the community----not on our amount of agreement with the subject matter. I volunteer at a natural history museum in DC, and we have visitors who come up to complain about the lack of a creationist viewpoint very often. It's a SCIENCE museum though, so creationism doesn't fit--but I think it is important to be understanding of their viewpoint.
@meg9: I don't agree. Is the GS a religious organization? Then I could see it but if its not then this is simply her forcing her religious views down the communities throat.
@bluebears: The Girl Scouts tend to take an all-inclusive view on religion--it's fine to be religious, it's fine to be not religious, and the troops themselves get to decide on what kind of activities they want to participate in. As far as I know, the national organization is fine with troops that want to participate in religion-related activities (although it's unlikely that troop leaders would agree to this unless everybody in the troop was the same religion), and they're also okay with troops not doing anything related to religion whatsoever. So this is pretty much in line with the GSA's stance of doing little to no policing of religion (or non-religion) whatsoever within the organization, which I don't necessarily see as a bad thing.
@bluebears: I don't know much about Girl Scouts specifically, but the Boy Scouts are a religious organization that require their members to profess faith in God, so I would assume there's a strong religious component to the Girl Scouts as well.
@thegogglesdonothing: The Boy Scouts and the Girl Scouts aren't really related at all. Mostly, GSA groups are run in churches, but I never had to declare a belief in God to attend and I was there for Daisies through Juniors (I quit before I was a Cadet because I hated my troupe). I know atheists who run groups through community centers and Christians who run them through churches.
@thegogglesdonothing: There is absolutely no religious component to Girl Scouting. In fact, diversity/inclusion are basic ideals of the organization. "Serving God" is mentioned in the Girl Scout Promise but GSA also states that every girl can substitute whatever they want here. If a GS wants to promise to serve the Flying Spaghetti Monster -- or to no deity at all -- that's OK by the Girl Scouts.
Some Evangelicals found the Girl Scouts' lack of Christian focus and inclusiveness to be so off-putting that they founded a competing group called American Heritage Girls with a Christian focus:
I just went through the training to lead my daughter's Girl Scout troop this year, and I'd say the overwhelming message of the training was twofold: (1) stressing diversity and inclusion and (2) empowerment of the girls in the troop.
Also, @Zombie Ms. Skittles mentions that GSA groups are mostly in churches. In our area, that's not the case -- I believe here almost all the troops are in the schools.
I'm disappointed her troop leaders OKed this project as being good for the community. What are we teaching, that dedication to an incorrect theory is just as valid as dedication to the truth? Not every belief is worth fighting for just because you really, really believe it.
The world doesn't need more young women passionately interested in pseudo-science, it needs more young women passionately interested in ACTUAL science. We already have too many of the former, not enough of the latter.
@willwriteforfood:I think if she lives in a community with an audiance for her creation lessons, her leaders could easily believe in Creationism themselves.
This girl may not end up with a PhD in evolutionary biology, but she may end up as a leader in her community. If the Girl Scouts doesn't endorse either side of the evolution/creationism argument, then I think they should be promoting successful girls doing things on either side.
@willwriteforfood: I agree with you for this very reason (and also as a lifelong Scout). Is there an award available for presenting proof on the existence of unicorns, and can I earn badges for a posterboard collage on how I spun spidersilk dresses with the fairies? No?
@MissMoneypenny: I agree in principle that the Girl Scouts should be promoting young women in their ambitions but telling her it's OK to show her community that Jesus rode a dinosaur is a bridge too far. It really does a community no favors when their children don't learn real science, they're taught fake science by someone whom the community is promoting as a role model whom kids should emulate. That's kind of effed up.
Edited because my original comment was too ranty - I'm a Gold Award recipient and just became a member of the board of approval in my council and this pisses me off royally.
@hellosunshine: I have a Gold Award, too!
My own troop leaders and council were seriously tough. I had to rewrite my proposal twice, and re-interview each time, to demonstrate that my project would actually (1) be new and original, and (2) benefit my community at large for years to come. I find this young woman's project mostly upsetting because creationism is so exclusionary--denying the relationship between humans and the rest of planet--and that's really not what the Girl Scouts are all about. What good can come from more religious hegemony in the public schools?
Her Grace promoted this comment
Edited by SomeAuthorGirl at 07/23/09 11:01 AM SomeAuthorGirl approved this comment
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07/24/09
My project might have been sneered at by some: I created a fashion show and accompanying curriculum (part of the ongoing requirement) around history of fashion and appropriate dressing for school and work aimed at girls in late elementary and early middle school. I got to incorporate two of my passions: vintage clothing and helping other girls get a leg up in the business/professional world.
This girl has a passion for her religion. Just because I and many others disagree with it shouldn't be a reason for her to not pursue her passion.
07/23/09
07/23/09
I suppose we could say that this an example of Girl Scouts' tolerance of other beliefs but I can't help but wonder if this girl would have still gotten her award (or even gotten approved) if she had decided to teach the old Hebrew Laws or the five pillars of Islam. Sadly, I really think not.
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
Please don't hate on the Boy Scouts because the people at the very top of the organization, along with a handful of troops are homophobes and otherwise intolerant. Most groups are actually rather open-minded and in the end they're there to help people. I personally credit the Boy Scouts and the people I met through them as being really good role models that I otherwise wouldn't have had in a very chaotic and unhealthy childhood.
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
If this scout put in the required work, good for her. I'm sure my project would make her cringe just as much as hers makes me cringe. So appearing ignorant and awful to a certain section of the population is just NOT a good enough reason do deny a scout her Gold Award.
07/23/09
http://www.boyandgirlscouts.com/recognition/sundays-golden-girls-04052009/
*A Californian raised awareness about a dangerous section of highway. Unfortunately, city officials didn't take action quickly enough and there was a terrible accident there.
*Four Floridian Girl Scouts' created a butterfly garden in memory of a man who worked at their GS camp.
*An MA GS started a program (including website, youthvoteMA.org) to increase voter registration and civic engagement among high school students.
*Six Ma scouts repaired and refurbished a family shelter.
*A girl from NJ raised awareness (and medical supplies) for health issues in Uganda
*Another NJ scout taught pottery to children (and their families) with intellectual disabilities.
These are from the week leading up to April fifth, because I'm having trouble navigating the site.
07/23/09
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_20_52/ai_65805932/?tag=content;col1
Hahahaha, she says it as if it's a bad thing!
07/23/09
07/23/09
"I'm also guessing that if she was allowed to teach it in schools it was something that would have been offered there to start with."
what? are you saying this should be taught in public schools? Because you do realize its religion not science, right? (please say right...)
07/23/09
07/23/09
One should not be rewarded for perpetuating ignorance.
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
But on the other hand, the description of the Girl Scout Gold Award says: "The project is something that fulfills a need within a girl's community (whether local or global), creates change, and hopefully, is something that becomes ongoing." And I don't really see there being a NEED in her community for this, unless schools were desperate to teach creationism and couldn't because they didn't have the materials.
So yeah. I'm torn.
07/23/09
Note: I am against teaching religious myths of any kind in schools, and am not torn in any way. I am also offended by it because I am a Scout; preaching is not part of deal.
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
Some Evangelicals found the Girl Scouts' lack of Christian focus and inclusiveness to be so off-putting that they founded a competing group called American Heritage Girls with a Christian focus:
http://www.ahgonline.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=18722
I just went through the training to lead my daughter's Girl Scout troop this year, and I'd say the overwhelming message of the training was twofold: (1) stressing diversity and inclusion and (2) empowerment of the girls in the troop.
Also, @Zombie Ms. Skittles mentions that GSA groups are mostly in churches. In our area, that's not the case -- I believe here almost all the troops are in the schools.
07/23/09
07/23/09
The world doesn't need more young women passionately interested in pseudo-science, it needs more young women passionately interested in ACTUAL science. We already have too many of the former, not enough of the latter.
07/23/09
This girl may not end up with a PhD in evolutionary biology, but she may end up as a leader in her community. If the Girl Scouts doesn't endorse either side of the evolution/creationism argument, then I think they should be promoting successful girls doing things on either side.
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
My own troop leaders and council were seriously tough. I had to rewrite my proposal twice, and re-interview each time, to demonstrate that my project would actually (1) be new and original, and (2) benefit my community at large for years to come. I find this young woman's project mostly upsetting because creationism is so exclusionary--denying the relationship between humans and the rest of planet--and that's really not what the Girl Scouts are all about. What good can come from more religious hegemony in the public schools?