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Writer Tries On Marilyn's Wardrobe • Vegetarian Cat Prefers Organic
Everyone — Even Jack Cafferty — Ends Up Disappointing

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♥AntiSocialSocialite♥
04/13/09

In reply to Writer Tries On Marilyn's Wardrobe • Vegetarian Cat Prefers Organic
I like the article about beautiful words - periwinkle and whimsical are my personal favorites. I hate the world GULP.
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Chocolate Sex Bunny
04/13/09

In reply to Writer Tries On Marilyn's Wardrobe • Vegetarian Cat Prefers Organic
Does anyone remember that interview Liz Hurley gave a few years ago when she stated (with regard to Marilyn Monroe) "I WOULD KILL MYSELF IF I WERE THAT FAT!!!"

Gawd I am disgusted about it to this day and am reminded of it anytime I read about either of them. What an asshole thing to say.
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Schm
04/13/09

In reply to Writer Tries On Marilyn's Wardrobe • Vegetarian Cat Prefers Organic
While many cons plaster their cells with pictorial collages, Peterson has only one photo hanging across from his bunk: a smiling shot of him and his wife, Laci.

This made my heart sink, although I'm glad this might mean he's remorseful for what he did.
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ellaesther
04/13/09

In reply to Writer Tries On Marilyn's Wardrobe • Vegetarian Cat Prefers Organic
Re: the postpartum depression story --

I read the original story, and the hypothesis is that PPD may be a way of the mother reacting to a lack of support from her surroundings. Though the reporting doesn't sound sciency enough to me (yet), I will say that in my case, as soon as I started hanging out with other parents at a parent-child center, my mild case of PPD went away. One day I was truly certain that I would never be happy again -- was working on just accepting that new fact -- and then sometime soon after, I was ok.

Of course, a lot of women need much more than social support, but in my case, that was the magic bullet.
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grrl
04/13/09

@ellaesther: I found the article interesting. The support factor makes a lot of sense, but I'd still be surprised if there weren't some chemical issues responsible as well.
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ellaesther
04/13/09

@grrl: Oh, absolutely, no doubt. Chemicals. The chemicals in my brain were catty-wampus. I'm just saying that in my very particular case, what I needed to get them back in order was social support (my husband was/is great, but is only one person), and it's interesting to read that researchers are beginning to see a direct connection between the two.

For many people, something else is needed (therapy, meds, etc) before those chemicals can be set right.
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the dodo, the cuckoo, and the nene
04/13/09

In reply to Writer Tries On Marilyn's Wardrobe • Vegetarian Cat Prefers Organic
Does anyone want to talk about the vegetarian cat? I read that cats are obligate carnivores so I'm wondering how healthy an all vegetarian diet is for the cat.
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the dodo, the cuckoo, and the nene
04/13/09

@the dodo, the cuckoo, and the nene: Ah and the article also mentions that cats are obligate carnivores. Well, good for that cat I guess. Seems like a special circumstance.
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clickable
04/13/09

@the dodo, the cuckoo, and the nene: They are, and they are meant to eat meat. Their digestive systems, starting with their fangs, are perfectly designed to ingest meat.

They will get very ill on a vegetarian diet. Animal Planet had a segment last week on one of its shows about cats that went blind because they were kept on a vegetarian diet. I don't know all the details but I imagine that ultimately they cannot survive and will eventually die of malnutrition on vegetarian-only diets.

Maybe Dante supplements the veggies with rodents or something when his owners aren't watching.
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the dodo, the cuckoo, and the nene
04/13/09

@clickable: Oh wow...I need to start watching Animal Planet more often.
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samethingwedoeverynightpinky
04/14/09

@clickable: My cat eats a vegetarian brand pet food, Evolution, that's supposed to be balanced. She's been eating it since she was a kitten, and she's 17 and healthy and has no vision problems (and she's an indoor cat, so no rodents.) Obviously as a pet owner you have to be responsible enough to make sure that your pet is getting a healthy diet, and monitor their health, but Vegetarian cat does not inherently equal irresponsible owner. I was actually going to put the cat on a mea based diet because it was cheaper than her special mail ordered organic vegetarian food (my mom started her on it when I was too young to have control over he decision), but right around that time the pet food poisoning scare happened, and I decided it was worth the extra money for something that had kept her so healthy for so long.
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librariesare4lovers
04/13/09

In reply to Writer Tries On Marilyn's Wardrobe • Vegetarian Cat Prefers Organic
Here's the correct link to the Times story:[women.timesonline.co.uk]
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Zombies make the heart grow fonder
04/13/09

In reply to Writer Tries On Marilyn's Wardrobe • Vegetarian Cat Prefers Organic
I knew they would supersede the indictment if they found the body. I was wondering what was taking so long.
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Samanthrax
04/13/09

In reply to Writer Tries On Marilyn's Wardrobe • Vegetarian Cat Prefers Organic
It doesn't fucking MATTER what size she would be today, because she's D-E-A-D. DEAD. Will it make you feel better about yourself? You're beautiful no matter what the hell size Marilyn Monroe would be today. What a pointless, pointless discussion.
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ellaesther
04/13/09

@Samanthrax: Oh, now I have to heart you again, and I CAN'T!! There is no "heart majillionity times" function!

Man, this makes more sense than almost anything else I've ever heard said about her. Also: D-E-A-D at her own hand! Her beauty was not enough to keep her alive! Choose life, fools!
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RisaPlata
04/13/09

@Samanthrax: My first roommate in college hung a picture of Marilyn Monroe next to her bed and told me something along the lines of "Marilyn was a size 16 and she was the sex symbol for an entire generation. That means I can be sexy, too."

It's not about her. It never was. It's about a cultural frame of reference for body-type acceptance. And that is a very important discussion.
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kelsium
04/13/09

@RisaPlata: It still involves the sacrifice of an actual woman at the altar of beauty. That bothers me.
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bluebears
04/13/09

@RisaPlata: yes. It's less about Marilyn Monroe and more about recognizing that social constructs play a huge role in creating what we think of as "beautiful." But I agree @Samanthrax: it's a ridiculous thing to argue over and generally pointless.
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Samanthrax
04/13/09

@RisaPlata: No! No no no! That's only convincing yourself that one type of beauty is acceptable. Marylin Monroe was and still is conventionally attractive. How is that any kind of body-type acceptance?
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MerryLilly
04/13/09

@Samanthrax: True. Actually if she were to be alive, it wouldn't matter either! Geez. Like beauty is determined by one specific random number (insert tons of LMAOs here).
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birminghamdrunk
04/13/09

@RisaPlata: not really, since it seems no one can agree on what actual body-type she had.

it's awesome that she makes some people feel better about themselves,- definitely not arguing that. but in all actuality, she was way way over-idealized in all aspects of that whole argument. see above discussion, if you are interested.
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RisaPlata
04/13/09

@Samanthrax: It's one step further than where we would be without her. I'm not saying she's the be-all, end-all of the discussion. FAR from it. But in a culture that worshipped at an alter of supermodels named Twiggy, it is A counter-argument. Is there more to be said? Hell to the yes. But I don't think we can invalidate the topic of her and expect the discussion to keep going.
@kelsium: I think that's an equally valid point, although I see it more as being about fame (certainly a linked topic).
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ellaesther
04/13/09

@kelsium: Yup. The whole "she was a real person" side of things tends to get forgotten in popular culture.
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Samanthrax
04/13/09

@RisaPlata: Maybe, but it's like you can be equal to or less than Marilyn Monroe, and that's it. It skews the barometer into the direction of self-loathing. And it's about labels. Why does it matter? Curvy, thick, skinny. It is exhausting. Fight the urge to put yourself in a box and only then will you be able to accept yourself the way you are, because chances are- you're never going to fit into a box.
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RisaPlata
04/13/09

@Samanthrax: This is true, and I very much wish everyone were capable of accepting themselves and the issue on this level. But my original anecdote was about a college freshman, and I think denying the importance of different-type role models, even if there aren't nearly enough of them and we're not nearly as accepting of them as we should be, ends up placing a lot of girls and women into the "loser" camp by default. Or rather, lets them place themselves there.
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Samanthrax
04/13/09

@RisaPlata: Well, honestly that's an even deeper issue. A woman is more than her sex appeal. Having Monroe as a body type role model only perpetuates that stereotype.
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RisaPlata
04/13/09

@Samanthrax: Doesn't having any body-type role model perpetuate that stereotype? I don't think it's one we're going to be able to extinguish anytime soon. I say this because I've been sitting here wondering why we're not bringing Queen Latifa into this conversation, because she is gorgeous and modern and not a size 2 (not fat either, but at least different from, say Kate Moss), and all I can come up with is the "lesbian" thing.

I have very little work today, and as a result I am full of deep thoughts. Very few conclusions, though.
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Fridge Hussy : Is finally heading back to uni!
04/13/09

@ellaesther: Actually I saw in a doco that they re-examined her body/the original report, and her colon was yellow upon closer inspection (the pills went upwards instead of downwards). DUN DUN DUN!

/actionable, yet useless factoid.
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grrl
04/13/09

@Samanthrax: I think you're oversimplifying the issue, though I do appreciate your attempt to inject some positive body image talk. As I see it, the problem with all the misunderstandings about Marilyn Monroe's size and shape are significant in how we (erroneously) view body acceptance (particularly nostalgic body acceptance), realistic body images, judgment and expectations about women's appearance, and the fashion industry.

I also find it somewhat perverse that so many women look to her as a symbol of body acceptance or beauty when in reality Monroe's whole appearance was forcibly manufactured and constantly viewed with a critical eye, not to mention the fact that she was objectified to the point of breaking.
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Samanthrax
04/13/09

@grrl: I'm oversimplifying it on purpose. I do not think defining our sizes and shapes are a useful discourse to have, presently or historically. At all.

But regarding your second point: I wholeheartedly agree.
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maneki neko
04/13/09

In reply to Writer Tries On Marilyn's Wardrobe • Vegetarian Cat Prefers Organic
"Alien Hand Syndrome" sounds like about the scariest thing ever.
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
04/13/09

In reply to Writer Tries On Marilyn's Wardrobe • Vegetarian Cat Prefers Organic
I've heard a lot of people use Marilyn's body size as a way to body snark smaller, thinner girls. She is not a modern size 16. Sizes were way different back then.
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baraqiel
04/13/09

In reply to Writer Tries On Marilyn's Wardrobe • Vegetarian Cat Prefers Organic
Wow. Insofar as I support harsh punishment for rapists, making rape survivors choose between public execution as a punishment and marriage to their rapists is pretty fucked up.
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Kirkat
04/13/09

@baraqiel: They won't make people choose, they're saying that the victims might feel so sorry for the rapist that they'll marry them to avoid them being executed.
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baraqiel
04/13/09

@Kirkat: ...which is effectively making them choose, no? I'm not saying the law is making them choose, but the society is.
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JessicaLovejoy: Laughing, riding, cornholing!
04/13/09

In reply to Writer Tries On Marilyn's Wardrobe • Vegetarian Cat Prefers Organic
MM did have an ass though. When she turns to go up the stairs in The Seven Year Itch? BOING!!!
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Mafalda para Presidente
04/13/09

In reply to Writer Tries On Marilyn's Wardrobe • Vegetarian Cat Prefers Organic
Thankfully my mom has no idea what Facebook is, and even if she did she can't stand to sit at the computer for more than 15 minutes. I doubt she'll be poking me any time soon.
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alouette
04/13/09

@Mafalda para Presidente: My mom asked me if she could get one and I told her nope, she had to be part of a college network. So what if this is like, 3 years out of date?
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Cookie Dough Monster
04/13/09

@Mafalda para Presidente: I, uh, rejected my mom's friend request and haven't stopped hearing about it for months. I may just give in soon and add her... but no, no. Can't do it!
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bluebears
04/13/09

In reply to Writer Tries On Marilyn's Wardrobe • Vegetarian Cat Prefers Organic
I would love to see the stats on the number of homicide defendants that the state of florida hasn't sought the death penalty on.
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morninggloria
04/13/09

In reply to Writer Tries On Marilyn's Wardrobe • Vegetarian Cat Prefers Organic
The death penalty is always a great idea! Because it brings the victim back to life!

I fucking hate the death penalty. More costly for the system, inhumane, and ridiculous. Vengeance does not equal justice.
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Mafalda para Presidente
04/13/09

@morninggloria: Agreed. Although I wonder how much of it is less in consideration for resources used and more about having a Really Scary Punishment to make people afraid of committing such violent crimes?
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alouette
04/13/09

@morninggloria: I was listening to NPR the other day and heard Texas has topped 400 people now? Since the 70s?! Those numbers cannot be just.
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