Edited by IBleedGlitter: The High Priestess of Tinsel at 11/06/09 12:16 PM
IBleedGlitter: The High Priestess of Tinsel was starred
IBleedGlitter: The High Priestess of Tinsel was unstarred
Babies definitely pick up on voices in utero. My coworker spent 8-9 hours a day in a shared office with me 5 days a week throughout her entire pregnancy (she worked until the day before her C-section, because she is a badass). Once her daughter was born, she would gravitate towards me whenever I'd talk around her--lots of eye movement and eventually head movement. She wasn't even remotely interested in the other people in our office who spoke relatively rarely to her mom.
No word yet on whether she learned to cuss more efficiently or picked up Excel tips, though. #babiescryinmothersaccent
Our intellect itself is often maladaptive. We're hunter gatherers designed to get just what we need to thrive and no more, yet every time you see a man in a 300K dollar car, with a new 20 year old wife, we fail to see that he is no different then the guy who can not stop eating until he can no longer get out of bed.
Our natural intellectual problem solving skills no longer serve our evolutionary role. Of course depression goes way beyond what our bodies and brains need, because we shouldnt have stress over half the ridiculous things we manage to create stress over in the first place. We ought to only have depression when we know we haven't done what we need to to get enough food and shelter for our family. Instead we wonder if we will get rich enough to throw a million dollar sweet sixteen party.
Begley's article is to the SciAm one as Natalie Portman's vegan rant is to Jonathan Safran Foer's book.
The SciAm article raises a lot of interesting points and does not dumb down the research quite to the level of a Newsweek audience. Especially interesting was the author's point that this finding could lead to better therapies for depression which actually focus on helpful rumination rather than discouraging the person from ruminating on the issues behind their depression at all.
I know a lot of people are up in arms about this, but as a person who has suffered from long term mild depression (in addition to more serious bouts for those of you who would say it isn't the same), it's refreshing to see depression discussed as a state of brain activity rather than a horrible affliction, which must immediately be solved by the drug companies. #depression
Yeah, okay. If I hadn't actively been fighting my depression with mediation and therapy, I would've offed myself. Which would not be great for my gene pool, from an evolutionary perspective. I'm calling bullshit on this one.
@Helen Valentine: Did the therapy lead you to change your behavior in some way? I would bet it did, and depression was the trigger that causes you to make those positive changes. #depression
@Helen Valentine: But it may be for the species. I really don't mean to sound so cold, but organisms with maladaptive qualities (even those which may be strengths in some situations) don't have the chance to pass on their genes, which is sort of what evolution is all about.
Also, I'm exasperated with the "Well I don't see how this applies to me, so this science cannot be true" way of thinking that is so, so common. #depression
"[L]osing the receptor that promotes depression in response to stress is something evolution thought would be a very bad move."
Emphasis added by yours truly, because that "in response to stress" is key here. It's logical to be depressed in response to stress. I don't think anyone wants to get rid of our capacity to feel depressed, period. But people with clinical depression experience these feelings in the absence of explanatory stimuli. That's when the receptor becomes a problem. So you use drugs to counteract a malfunction (e.g., serotonin reuptake) in another area of the brain.
@Kivrin: What makes me think is that maybe there's something in the environment we've created for ourselves that our brains interpret as stressful, sending some of us (at times in my life including me) into a more permanent depressive state.
Our environment (which is largely made up of human-created technology at this point) has changed much faster than our brains. #depression
@Kivrin: Thank you! I get so annoyed when people can't differentiate between clinical depression and depression that's related to a painful or stressful event. It's the root of most of the unhelpful advice that well meaning people offer to those who are depressed. #depression
@Kivrin: Yes, and/but to compound the problem, when people are clinically depressed they'll assign reasons to their depression: I hate my job, nobody likes me, etc, etc... so that you're guessing about the chicken and the egg. My father has been depressed for his whole life, but if you were to ask him, he's just been the unlucky recipient of a series of bad breaks. #depression
@Kivrin: Never mind the fact that the drugs people take don't actually *remove* the ability to feel depression or stress. They should be call "Mood levellers" cause that's what they do, they level one's moods. #depression
Plenty of genetic adaptations have simultaneous benefits and disadvantages. Reduced melanin in the epidermis is dandy for vitamin D production at high latititudes, but not so great for sunburn avoidance. Sickle-cell anemia is a good way to avoid malaria, but also results in crises. Lactose tolerance allows for a broader range of food choices, but also results in increased saturated fat consumption. Depression might be in the same category. #depression
While evolution is a wonderful thing, I am beginning to wonder if the field of psychology should start staying far far away from it (speaking as a psych student myself). #depression
@alouette: ITA, speaking as a psych grad. Evolutionary psychiatry is the new Oedipus complex - unprovable, explains the past but doesn't predict the future, ultimately useless b/cit doesn't address anything concrete or specific. #depression
The problem is: you can say that about anything. Depression. Mania. Anger. We are the sum total of the experiences and genetics of our ancestors, and while these adaptations might have been built up for a purpose, the process of evolution is a process of adaptation. As the environment changes, so, too, does the organism have to change, to survive and grow. An adaptation that may have served our ancestors well 50,000 or 250,000 years ago, may now, given the shift in human society, not be advantageous. #depression
@NefariousNewt: My manic episodes were very productive for my grades, my house's cleanliness, and my exercise habits. Unfortunately, it destroyed my relationships with friends and I kept getting in fights. The thing about a mental illness, even if you're getting good with bad, you're still getting BAD and it's still unhealthy. #depression
Plus, some people act like Prozac is similar to Lortabs or pot where you go around with a giant doofy smile all stoned. It pisses me off. I had a guy try to steal my prozac so he could get high off it, and kept insisting since it made me happy, he'd get an awesome buzz. Fail. #depression
@Snowbunny: That's a good point, and if anyone asks to share medications again, they can be cured by hearing that anti depressants are essentially placebos with unpredictable side effects.
I really hate the "going through hardships will make you stronger" line of thinking sometimes. I mean, yes, in a lot of cases that is true, but it implies such a passive role. Bad things, like struggling with depression, don't just happen around you. They happen in you. You aren't spinning a cocoon and coming out a beautiful butterfly. It's called a struggle because you struggle. People can't wipe that away by saying it will make you stronger in the long run. When you are dealing with something so difficult on a day to day basis, you have to speak to it in the short run as well.
I just feel that that sort of statement can lead to the idea that people shouldn't help others who are having trouble, because they would be taking a way an opportunity to grow. Most people who make it through hardships don't do it completely alone. Some do, but most do not.
I don't have depression, thankfully, but I have been through hardships and the tone of these articles rubs me the wrong way. You don't look at someone in pain and say "but it's good for the species! It's good for YOU!" That's awful. It minimizes the issue that people out there are hurting and hating themselves and their lives and the world around them.
The study I think is helpful. The spin it gets and that I think it could get is not. #depression
11/06/09
06:43 AM
@IBleedGlitter: The High Priestess of Tinsel: maybe you're better off without a maniacal toddler plotting your demise #babiescryinmothersaccent
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No word yet on whether she learned to cuss more efficiently or picked up Excel tips, though. #babiescryinmothersaccent
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11/06/09
Southern babies: WAAAAHHH, YA'LL!
Northeastern babies: WICKED WAHHHH GUY!
West Coast babies: LIKE, FREAKIN' WAAAH!
Midwestern babies:WAHHH DONCHAKNOW? #babiescryinmothersaccent
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"WAAAA-OYYYYY!" #babiescryinmothersaccent
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11/03/09
Our natural intellectual problem solving skills no longer serve our evolutionary role. Of course depression goes way beyond what our bodies and brains need, because we shouldnt have stress over half the ridiculous things we manage to create stress over in the first place. We ought to only have depression when we know we haven't done what we need to to get enough food and shelter for our family. Instead we wonder if we will get rich enough to throw a million dollar sweet sixteen party.
11/03/09
The SciAm article raises a lot of interesting points and does not dumb down the research quite to the level of a Newsweek audience. Especially interesting was the author's point that this finding could lead to better therapies for depression which actually focus on helpful rumination rather than discouraging the person from ruminating on the issues behind their depression at all.
I know a lot of people are up in arms about this, but as a person who has suffered from long term mild depression (in addition to more serious bouts for those of you who would say it isn't the same), it's refreshing to see depression discussed as a state of brain activity rather than a horrible affliction, which must immediately be solved by the drug companies. #depression
11/03/09
11/03/09
11/03/09
Also, I'm exasperated with the "Well I don't see how this applies to me, so this science cannot be true" way of thinking that is so, so common. #depression
11/03/09
11/03/09
Emphasis added by yours truly, because that "in response to stress" is key here. It's logical to be depressed in response to stress. I don't think anyone wants to get rid of our capacity to feel depressed, period. But people with clinical depression experience these feelings in the absence of explanatory stimuli. That's when the receptor becomes a problem. So you use drugs to counteract a malfunction (e.g., serotonin reuptake) in another area of the brain.
11/03/09
Our environment (which is largely made up of human-created technology at this point) has changed much faster than our brains. #depression
11/03/09
11/03/09
11/03/09
11/04/09
11/03/09
11/03/09
While evolution is a wonderful thing, I am beginning to wonder if the field of psychology should start staying far far away from it (speaking as a psych student myself). #depression
11/04/09
11/03/09
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11/03/09
"This does so much for you! Give me some!"
"You don't have my disease, it won't do shit for you because there's nothing to fix."
It's like seeing somebody sick improve on antibiotics and trying to steal Penicillin so you can look and feel that much better. #depression
11/03/09
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I just feel that that sort of statement can lead to the idea that people shouldn't help others who are having trouble, because they would be taking a way an opportunity to grow. Most people who make it through hardships don't do it completely alone. Some do, but most do not.
I don't have depression, thankfully, but I have been through hardships and the tone of these articles rubs me the wrong way. You don't look at someone in pain and say "but it's good for the species! It's good for YOU!" That's awful. It minimizes the issue that people out there are hurting and hating themselves and their lives and the world around them.
The study I think is helpful. The spin it gets and that I think it could get is not. #depression